Abortion: Your Views...

[Zardoch]

Also, I'm not saying that the man has nothing to do with the pregnancy or anything of the sort. What I'm saying is, that ultimately, it's up to the woman to make the final decision. I'm not gonna drag no woman to an abortion clinic and force her to get an abortion. This is why I say it's up to the woman. You know how people ask sometimes whether or not the woman is going to keep the baby? Well, who's that question directed at? The one who's pregnant! Correct! Just so you know, I haven't impregnated anybody yet, but I've been around pregnant women before. I was living with my sister through her two pregnancies. It's not as good as living with someone that I've actually gotten pregnant, but it should be close enough for you, so here I say, **** you.

Just because a woman becomes pregnant doesn't mean that it's THEIR decision and THEIR decision alone. Having a baby is, as it was said, a SERIOIUS thing, even if it happens by accident. What Sasquatch is explaining is that a man should have much to say about an abortion as the woman. The problem is you're putting your partner's own feelings about the matter out the door without a chance of knowing what he really feels. I mean you do realize men have emotions and the like, right? Just because a woman has the child doesn't mean it doesn't affect the man who helped create that child. He may not be walking around for 9 months with a child in his belly, but he's as responsible for that child as much as you are, hence the responsibility splits BOTH WAYS, not just towards the mother.

The way you're handling this is almost as if you don't care, thus Sasquatch saying that you're irresponsible. He's right too because that's not just an egg, it's a living organism. All living things have the right to live and if you wish to destroy that because it's "inconvenient" is truly irresponsible. It might be unfair that you became pregnant, but now you have to deal with the consequences that you KNEW were there beforehand. (Having sex = chance of pregnacy)

Lastly, the **** you was uncalled for.

Of course I know that more men support abortion than women! It's common sense! I mean, a man did legalize the practice, after all.

Do you have any evidence to support that assumption? Do you think men were the only ones who suggested abortion? Like do you know Madem Restell? She was someone in the 19th-20th century who created birth control pills and surgically did abortions as well.

In the society of the United States, the man is considered the head of the household. With this logic, the man will be providing the majority of the income, therefore, the man is also providing and paying the majority of the expenses for the child.

You do realize that was very sexist of you, both against men and women? Just because it has become normalized in today's society that "men are the breadwinners of the household" doesn't mean that's the way things are in modern times. In fact, there are many households where women are the ones making the most money, hence they being the breadwinners (like my own mother). So not only do you generalize men as being the ones who are SUPPOSE to pay child support, you also insult the women who make the most money in their homes. Why do men HAVE to pay child-support and then be jailed for being so poor that they can only provide for themself?

This can be a problem for many men, if the child came from a fling with some woman or something of the sort. Some guys just don't want to support a child, therefore, they will try to get the woman to have an abortion.

This is the common view society has about men and honestly, you're out of line when you assume only men want to have abortions because they have to pay their partner (x) amount over years. What about the women who purposely get pregnant so they can abuse the child-support law and get free money from their lovers? Of course, women are such noble creatures that they'd never do such a thing, right?

The reason that a lot of women are against abortion is because of the trauma and emotional stress that comes from it, along with the ongoing thoughts of a dead baby being squeezed out of them. They had a living being inside of them that needed them, and they abandoned it. An abortion is harder for a woman than a man. Prove me wrong on that, mother****er.

Right, women are the only ones who go through traumatic stress of seeing their own children they helped create die and deal with the emotional stress. Since men are insensitive and unemotional creatures, they must be celebrating the death of their own child. Yes, that what happens in the real world. Women are the only ones who suffer. You are so kind and understanding to know that.

It's true.. Guys will help women through the pregnancy and give them support. I'm sorry if I worded it in an immature and stupid way, but overall, that's how it is. The man helps her get around, supports her during the pregnancy, and them some. I guess I was thoughtless. I was wrong on that one, and I apologize.

That's not how it is. It's a painted picture created by misandrist and extreme feminist alike who try to show the world that women are the only victims of everyday life. Still, I'm glad you apologized to him.

So you're saying that if you can't handle a child, then... uhm... well ****, I can't think of anything intelligent to come back with to that. ****.

He's saying what I just said earlier. He's explaining that having a child and deciding on getting an abortion or not is an IMPORTANT RESPONSIBLE DECISION you try think twice, no three times about.

Nobody is truly ready for sex their first time. Why do you think that people are always nervous or embarrassed during their first time? Just thought I'd throw that out there.

No, but people can take precautions and understand that pregnancy can result from sex, even if you take those same precautions. When you have sex, you have to remind yourself that there is a consequence and it's name is "baby".

I believe more in keeping the child and giving it up for adoption when it’s born, just so you know. I’d rather not push a woman to go get an abortion. And, if the woman did get an abortion, I wouldn’t feel good about it, but luckily, I’m Catholic, so all I’d have to do is go to Confession, and all of my being will be cleansed!
I’m not a supporter of abortion, like a lot of men, but I know that there are a good amount of women that are, even if the majority of women are against it.

Wait, what? It sounds like you're going to take this so lightly just because you can go talk to a priest and he says you're forgiven. If you believe that you can be guilt-free from such a thing by going to confession, you are sadly mistaken.

Tell me, Sasquatch, are you a religious person? It seems like you might be a little bit on the extreme side of Christianity there, since you seemed to mix a little bit of sarcasm with forceful sentences in your posts. Everyone has their beliefs, so let’s just keep this thread about posting one’s beliefs and informing people a little more on all the aspects of the topic, is that okay with you? Because I really don’t want to get into a flame war with you.

Yes, he is religious, but he's not enforcing his religious beliefs on anyone. He's stating his opinion about abortion, that's all. Don't assume that just because he's religious that he's some gun-totting, redneck, bible thumper.

[Lilium]

Just because a woman becomes pregnant doesn't mean that it's THEIR decision and THEIR decision alone. Having a baby is, as it was said, a SERIOIUS thing, even if it happens by accident. What Sasquatch is explaining is that a man should have much to say about an abortion as the woman. The problem is you're putting your partner's own feelings about the matter out the door without a chance of knowing what he really feels. I mean you do realize men have emotions and the like, right? Just because a woman has the child doesn't mean it doesn't affect the man who helped create that child. He may not be walking around for 9 months with a child in his belly, but he's as responsible for that child as much as you are, hence the responsibility splits BOTH WAYS, not just towards the mother.

The way you're handling this is almost as if you don't care, thus Sasquatch saying that you're irresponsible. He's right too because that's not just an egg, it's a living organism. All living things have the right to live and if you wish to destroy that because it's "inconvenient" is truly irresponsible. It might be unfair that you became pregnant, but now you have to deal with the consequences that you KNEW were there beforehand. (Having sex = chance of pregnacy)

Lastly, the **** you was uncalled for.



Do you have any evidence to support that assumption? Do you think men were the only ones who suggested abortion? Like do you know Madem Restell? She was someone in the 19th-20th century who created birth control pills and surgically did abortions as well.



You do realize that was very sexist of you, both against men and women? Just because it has become normalized in today's society that "men are the breadwinners of the household" doesn't mean that's the way things are in modern times. In fact, there are many households where women are the ones making the most money, hence they being the breadwinners (like my own mother). So not only do you generalize men as being the ones who are SUPPOSE to pay child support, you also insult the women who make the most money in their homes. Why do men HAVE to pay child-support and then be jailed for being so poor that they can only provide for themself?



This is the common view society has about men and honestly, you're out of line when you assume only men want to have abortions because they have to pay their partner (x) amount over years. What about the women who purposely get pregnant so they can abuse the child-support law and get free money from their lovers? Of course, women are such noble creatures that they'd never do such a thing, right?




Right, women are the only ones who go through traumatic stress of seeing their own children they helped create die and deal with the emotional stress. Since men are insensitive and unemotional creatures, they must be celebrating the death of their own child. Yes, that what happens in the real world. Women are the only ones who suffer. You are so kind and understanding to know that.



That's not how it is. It's a painted picture created by misandrist and extreme feminist alike who try to show the world that women are the only victims of everyday life. Still, I'm glad you apologized to him.



He's saying what I just said earlier. He's explaining that having a child and deciding on getting an abortion or not is an IMPORTANT RESPONSIBLE DECISION you try think twice, no three times about.



Wait, what? It sounds like you're going to take this so lightly just because you can go talk to a priest and he says you're forgiven. If you believe that you can be guilt-free from such a thing by going to confession, you are sadly mistaken.



Yes, he is religious, but he's not enforcing his religious beliefs on anyone. He's stating his opinion about abortion, that's all. Don't assume that just because he's religious that he's some gun-totting, redneck, bible thumper.

You did read the part of my post that said talked about the couple discussing whether or not to have an abortion, right? What I’m trying to say is that, whenever a couple think about whether or not to have an abortion, the male always tends to ask the woman ‘well, are you okay with this?’ and ‘are you sure about this?’ and ‘do you want to have an abortion?’ The male always seems to let the woman have the last word in this stuff. That’s all I’m saying, is that… aww **** it. I’m starting to majorly confuse myself. Nothing that's coming from my mout-, er, typing is probably making sense anymore.


No, I never knew about the history of abortion in the 19th century. Thank you for informing me.


Listen, when my parents got divorced, my mom was the one who supported me. I know all well how women can bring in a good income. What I’m saying is, is that there are patriarchal societies, and there are matriarchal societies, and the U.S. seems to lean towards a patriarch. I know that women can pay child support, but what kind of court would give a small child over to the father? The courts would never try to take a child away from the mother until they are deemed mature enough in age to make the decision for themselves. Besides, the child could be living with the father, but the mother could still have physical custody. This is how it’s been with me for the past 2 years, so basically, the woman hasn’t paid any child support. I think they worked out a deal where no one pays anymore, though. But I digress. That’s all I’m saying. I didn’t word that right, so I apologize.
I do have to say, though, that it is kind of selfish to make the woman pay. My nephew’s deadbeat dad walked out of his and my sister’s home right in front of him, and never came back once. He did come back eventually (hasn’t since the second time, though. …yet), but he never got a job, and just mooched off of my sister, forcing her to support both of them, along with one or two kids (forget when my other nephew was born). Therefore, unless you are living in a matriarchal society, then the man should pay his fair share of the income. That’s all I’m saying. I guess I’m in the wrong for believing in that, though, so for that, I also apologize.


I know that women want to have abortions as well, but from all the stories I’ve heard from women that have gone through with it, they seemed to really, really regret it afterwards, and thought of how horrible it was to actually go through with it. I know that not all women would have guilt from it, but it seems that enough of them do.
As for the child-support law thing that you typed up, you do know about paternity tests, right? Well, they won’t be getting the money from their lovers, but from the people that got them pregnant. And what if they can’t find the person that knocked them up? Well, they won’t be getting any money, now will they? Even if they do find him, he can just say no to the paternity tests. …he can, right? I’m not too versed in paternity laws when it comes to tests. Would you please also inform me on this?


I’m not saying that it’s not painful for the man, I’m saying that it’s a lot harder for the women. Think about it. A dead baby is being pushed from her vagina. There’s also that sudden influx in hormones and chemicals from the child prematurely being birthed. It can be chemically and mentally dangerous for the woman. The man can feel the woman’s pain, and even have his own, but overall, they’re not the ones pushing a dead baby out of any holes and they’re not having any chemical fluxes from it. You just twisted that entire quoted part around from what I was trying to say. From my point of view, you are in the wrong this time.


I don’t quite remember typing the ‘that’s how it is’ part, so for that, I apologize.


It was sarcasm, dumbass. I’ll put a [/SARCASM] thing at the end next time when I’m being sarcastic. For that, I apologize.


I’m not saying that he’s some gun-totting, redneck, bible thumper. Believe it or not, I met and got to know some great gun-totting rednecks while I was in Texas. I have nothing against Southerners.
Okay, I was mean there, so for that, I apologize.


...****, I'm starting a flame-war, aren't I? Listen, you're the adult here. So how about instead of arguing with me (which is the father's role, not yours [/SARCASM]), how about you put everything in perspective for me, and inform me more on this subject, since I don't really think that pregnancy and abortions are really teenager's more informed points, since school districts will either teach about abstinence, or safe sex, instead of how to handle pregnancies and the like.
So please, since I don't want to start a flame war, be more informative on the subject and teach me instead of typing responses in such a mean way. I really would just like to hear others giving their thoughts on the subject, and giving their own information on what they know, whether it's in a news report, or just helping someone out by giving them some information that they asked for.
...did any of that make sense?


Just remember everyone, before I'm a fat guy, I'm a retard. This is why you must inform me and help me understand rather than flame me or give replies with a mean tone to them. Remember this.

[Zardoch]

You did read the part of my post that said talked about the couple discussing whether or not to have an abortion, right? What I’m trying to say is that, whenever a couple think about whether or not to have an abortion, the male always tends to ask the woman ‘well, are you okay with this?’ and ‘are you sure about this?’ and ‘do you want to have an abortion?’ The male always seems to let the woman have the last word in this stuff. That’s all I’m saying, is that… aww **** it. I’m starting to majorly confuse myself. Nothing that's coming from my mout-, er, typing is probably making sense anymore.

Just because the male seems to give the woman the last word, this is not always the case. My point was that such views have been programmed into society and people assume so much when it comes to such things.

No, I never knew about the history of abortion in the 19th century. Thank you for informing me.

No problem, though abortion has been around for thousands of years. ^^

Listen, when my parents got divorced, my mom was the one who supported me. I know all well how women can bring in a good income. What I’m saying is, is that there are patriarchal societies, and there are matriarchal societies, and the U.S. seems to lean towards a patriarch.

This is true to an extent. Generally, men usually do have the most income, but that is not a suffice reason for men to be the only ones to pay child support.

I know that women can pay child support, but what kind of court would give a small child over to the father?

A court that has common sense? If a father benefits the child more than the mother, then it should be obvious. Yet as you state below, often the courts never take away the child from its mother. This is again a normalization that mothers are believed to be better parents, which from what I've seen is hardly true.

I do have to say, though, that it is kind of selfish to make the woman pay. My nephew’s deadbeat dad walked out of his and my sister’s home right in front of him, and never came back once. He did come back eventually (hasn’t since the second time, though. …yet), but he never got a job, and just mooched off of my sister, forcing her to support both of them, along with one or two kids (forget when my other nephew was born).

Selfish? Really? Why is it selfish THAT if a man gains custody of the child(ren) and the WOMAN has to pay child support? Has IT been seen as selfish for the opposite situation of a man paying for child support? No, society has deemed it as morally and politically correct. Of course, I won't deny that there are some men like that, but ONE man or dozens does not justify the sexism of forcing only one gender to pay. Furthermore, it is wrong to put the person who pays for child support in jail because they're not super rich. I mean if a man WON'T pay and has the money, then there should be a punishment, but throwing them in jail won't get them the money for child support faster. Furthermore, how much of this child support money goes to actually raising the child?

Therefore, unless you are living in a matriarchal society, then the man should pay his fair share of the income. That’s all I’m saying. I guess I’m in the wrong for believing in that, though, so for that, I also apologize.

You're not wrong for having an opinion, only that the society you think you're living in has you believing that "fair" means that the man must do what he's told since he is generally BELIEVED to be the one who has a better income. This is completely unfair and misuse of the child support laws. It should be that whoever has the better income pays child support, not just the father in the family.

As for the child-support law thing that you typed up, you do know about paternity tests, right? Well, they won’t be getting the money from their lovers, but from the people that got them pregnant.

Yes, I know of the test. More often then not, however, the people who got them pregnant were their lovers, or supposed lovers.

And what if they can’t find the person that knocked them up? Well, they won’t be getting any money, now will they? Even if they do find him, he can just say no to the paternity tests. …he can, right? I’m not too versed in paternity laws when it comes to tests. Would you please also inform me on this?

Yeah, they won't be getting any money. As sad as that is, that doesn't mean they can go on a parade to find someone who will give them that money. They'll have to work for it, which most people often have to do. That is apart of life.

As for if the man can or cannot agree to the test, it depends. Sometimes the courts can order the man to do the test, but generally such things are given a yes/no option. It's a legal issue that is said to step on a person's rights because if you go up to someone and say, "Hey, we need your blood sample/whatever to test for this", you need consent first. Such samples are practically put into the system so some people who don't trust the system would rather not go through any test like the paternity test. Of course, despite that fact, it doesn't make the person who denies the test a bad person.

I’m not saying that it’s not painful for the man, I’m saying that it’s a lot harder for the women. Think about it. A dead baby is being pushed from her vagina. There’s also that sudden influx in hormones and chemicals from the child prematurely being birthed. It can be chemically and mentally dangerous for the woman. The man can feel the woman’s pain, and even have his own, but overall, they’re not the ones pushing a dead baby out of any holes and they’re not having any chemical fluxes from it. You just twisted that entire quoted part around from what I was trying to say. From my point of view, you are in the wrong this time.

Yes, physically I won't deny that is it harder on women. The process can be dangerous and the stress put on the woman can be pretty hard too. My point is this isn't a game of who feels the more pain, only that the men emotionally feel just as bad about it and shouldn't be treated worse just because they aren't the ones going through the procedure. The idea is to acknowledge the both the mother and father feel the same or similar emotions.

I don’t quite remember typing the ‘that’s how it is’ part, so for that, I apologize.

I'm sorry if I worded it in an immature and stupid way, but overall, that's how it is.

That's what I was responding too.

I’m not saying that he’s some gun-totting, redneck, bible thumper. Believe it or not, I met and got to know some great gun-totting rednecks while I was in Texas. I have nothing against Southerners.
Okay, I was mean there, so for that, I apologize.

I didn't say you were saying that either, , only that you might have been referring that. I'll take it back as it was only an observation.

...****, I'm starting a flame-war, aren't I? Listen, you're the adult here. So how about instead of arguing with me (which is the father's role, not yours [/SARCASM]), how about you put everything in perspective for me, and inform me more on this subject, since I don't really think that pregnancy and abortions are really teenager's more informed points, since school districts will either teach about abstinence, or safe sex, instead of how to handle pregnancies and the like.
So please, since I don't want to start a flame war, be more informative on the subject and teach me instead of typing responses in such a mean way. I really would just like to hear others giving their thoughts on the subject, and giving their own information on what they know, whether it's in a news report, or just helping someone out by giving them some information that they asked for.
...did any of that make sense?

Yes, it made sense. I'm not trying to start a flame war, however, even if I was being a bit cynical toward you. I was trying to "inform" you on the views you've come to accept as truth may be misguided and the things you believe might be a bit out of tune. Moreso I'm trying to say that you should be more open to the informative views I mention and understand my perspective. I'm not trying to be mean to you, only pointing out various things you may want to reevaluate. If I was a bit harsh, I apologize.

Just remember everyone, before I'm a fat guy, I'm a retard. This is why you must inform me and help me understand rather than flame me or give replies with a mean tone to them. Remember this.

You should have more confidence than that, . I don't see you as a retarded fat guy, just someone a bit misinformed. Again, if I came off in a harsh manner, I apologize again.

[Sasquatch]

Believe it or not, they ARE two different things, they just both involve money. Therefore, your talk about child support is irrelevant here. I should know about this, since my parents have been divorced since I was 7.

Sure, they are two different things, but as you said, both involve money -- and in this circumstance, they both involve the father paying money. Not only will he be financially responsible for the child after it's born -- if it's not murdered before -- he'll be financially responsible for the child and the mother's medical bills before and during childbirth. So the moral of the story here is that the mother has the choice to either murder the father's child, even if he wants it, or give birth, even if he doesn't want it, and create a nineteen-year financial drain on the father.

And you're not the only one with divorced parents, kid.

Also, I'm not saying that the man has nothing to do with the pregnancy or anything of the sort.

No, you're just saying that "all the guy has to do is put up with it and support the pregnant woman." That the woman does all the work and has all the pain, and the guy is just there.

Just so you know, I haven't impregnated anybody yet, but I've been around pregnant women before. I was living with my sister through her two pregnancies.

You were living with her? Meaning you waited on her hand and foot, attended all her appointments with her, and worked your ass off to support her? Or meaning you lived in the same house for a while? There's quite a bit of difference.

Of course I know that more men support abortion than women! It's common sense!

Then there goes your argument about how men should have no say in the matter.

The reason that a lot of women are against abortion is because of the trauma and emotional stress that comes from it, along with the ongoing thoughts of a dead baby being squeezed out of them. They had a living being inside of them that needed them, and they abandoned it.

Yet, people still fight for their "right" to murder their own child and squeeze it out of them.

I know about the statistics of failed birth control. Most pregnancies happen from stuff like unprotected sex, broken condoms, leakage from anal sex (yes, it has happened before), etc.

Are you honestly trying to say that anal leakage is a major contributor to unplanned pregnancy numbers? Most pregnancies happen from unprotected sex. Period. Statement over. Not failed birth control, not broken condoms, not leaky anuses. Unprotected sex. In other words, most unplanned pregnancies happen because of irresponsibility. Not an attempt to be responsible and something going wrong, but all-out irresponsibility.

So you're saying that if you can't handle a child, then... uhm... well ****, I can't think of anything intelligent to come back with to that. ****.

I'm saying that if you can't handle a child, don't have irresponsible sex. Just like, say, if you can't handle a car payment and insurance, don't buy a car -- because something unplanned could happen, and you wouldn't be able to deal with the consequences.

Nobody is truly ready for sex their first time. Why do you think that people are always nervous or embarrassed during their first time? Just thought I'd throw that out there.

There's a difference in "ready for sex" and "ready for the consequences of sex". Very few people are ready for sex the first time. Almost nobody is ready for pregnancy the first time they have sex. That's why they need to do it responsibly.

And, if the woman did get an abortion, I wouldn’t feel good about it, but luckily, I’m Catholic, so all I’d have to do is go to Confession, and all of my being will be cleansed!

Ah, good ol' Catholicism mentality. I can do what I want and confess, and I'm free to do what I want again!

Tell me, Sasquatch, are you a religious person?

Do I have to be a religious person to protect the life of an unborn child?

It seems like you might be a little bit on the extreme side of Christianity there ...

Hahahahahah. A Catholic -- somebody who follows a religion that claims to be part of Christianity -- is saying that Biblical viewpoints are "extreme"?

... since you seemed to mix a little bit of sarcasm with forceful sentences in your posts.

That has nothing to do with my religious beliefs. I'm just a smartass.

I know that women can pay child support, but what kind of court would give a small child over to the father? The courts would never try to take a child away from the mother until they are deemed mature enough in age to make the decision for themselves.

That's one of the problems with the custody court system in America. The mother is automatically seen as the better parent -- as has been pointed out -- and the father is seen as a paycheck. What's wrong with giving the father his child to raise?

I do have to say, though, that it is kind of selfish to make the woman pay.

How is that any more selfish than making the man pay?

Even if they do find him, he can just say no to the paternity tests. …he can, right? I’m not too versed in paternity laws when it comes to tests. Would you please also inform me on this?

From what I know, if your name is on the child's birth certificate as the father, you're paying child support. Period. YOU can request a paternity test so you DON'T have to pay, but the only thing the mother has to do to suck money from your paycheck every month is name you as the father. The mother can refuse to put the child through the test, if she so chooses, but that means that she'll stop getting money. Basically, the "father" can challenge it and the mother can either back down from it or go through with it. If the "father" really is the father, he keeps paying, of course -- but if he's not, he gets to stop paying, but doesn't get a penny back of what he already paid.

Think about it. A dead baby is being pushed from her vagina. There’s also that sudden influx in hormones and chemicals from the child prematurely being birthed. It can be chemically and mentally dangerous for the woman.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to feel sorry for any problems gone through by a woman who murders her own child. Maybe they can get sympathy from somebody else, but none from me.

I’m not saying that he’s some gun-totting, redneck, bible thumper.

You might as well, half the other people here who disagree with me have the same idea. But what would be so bad about being a "Bible-thumper", if you claim to be Catholic?

I have nothing against Southerners.

What makes you think all gun-toting redneck Bible-thumpers are Southerners? Hell, I live in Wisconsin.

And look, I did that without cussing at you once.

[RamesesII]

Abortion is absolutely disgusting you are taking the life of a living thing.

Although in some cases when some one can't financially afford a baby or are to young it could be acceptable but only if it is really neccesary or why not have the baby and give it up for adoption then again is that any less cruel than abortion.

Or here is a good one wear a bloody rubber if you not going to go through with having kids