Religions - Your Opinion

[Josh_R]

Unknown you have a lot of good views and I support every single one of them...

I don't think you can just choose a religion, but you can choose a path which might possibly follow a particular religion, therefore making you part of it.

I think this is true. I didn't choose to be atheist I just followed a path that cause me to question everything that I had learnt about religion.

"Choosing" a religion isn't like choosing which clothes to wear in the morning. It's a massive decision which needs a lot of thought put into it.

Fact, it took me a few years to even become a atheist. I also know many friends who thought long and hard about their religion choices and still don't know what to believe.

I think that for a religion to be taken seriously, you'd need to of have been raised on it by your parents or school or whatever.

I was raised in a strong christian family but over time my belief in it began to fade. I just stopped believing that there was a force that basically controlled us all..

I was raised to be a Christian. A load of shit happened to make me question Christianity. What annoyed me was that when I put these questions forward to my teachers and even the vicar, I wasn't given a proper answer, which therefore lead to even more questions. Eventually, they stopped giving me answers because they got pissed that I was wasting their time I can imagine.

Same thing happened to me. Noone would ever give me a straight answer, and at the time I was going to a christian school so you would think if I had any doubts or questions about the religion they would tell me...

Why, when religion is questioned, do people tend to back off and get defensive as if the curious people are trying to disprove or take a dig at the path this person has chosen?

I think it is because they feel that everyone might actually be trying to disprove their religion. You have all these religious fanatics who take thing s to far some times and it sacres everyone of that religion. You talked about speaking with muslims girls nowadays in the united states muslims are often shunned due to 9/11. I have many Muslim friends and none of them are bad people, but due to the acts of a few fanatics everyone has began to despise them and their religion.

When it comes to converting to another religion, I believe it's something that requires a lot of thought and research. It's not possible to become a Christian* overnight.

This is a fact, if you choose a religion quickly to me that shows that you either don't care or you are uneducated on it. I studied many different religions: buddhism, taoism, etc...None of which were appeling to me except for maybe taoism it was very interesting so was buddhism...It is a difficult decision that should not be taken lightly and should be though about for longer than a day or two...

[chrono]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/...1a0ef78f7b.jpg


that pretty much sums it up for me. if god is all powerful and capable of anything then you must be of the opinion that evil exist because he allows it to exist or that he is not all powerful and he is not able to stop it.

how about this though....maybe there is no such thing as evil... and good and evil are things humans made up in relation to how we treat each other. Is the lion evil when he snaps the neck of the zebra? i can cite various other examples from the animal world(some quite extreme)

either way i am not going to believe in any being that wants constant praise and worship. i guess his daddy ran out on him as a kid or something.

[GypsyElder]

that pretty much sums it up for me. if god is all powerful and capable of anything then you must be of the opinion that evil exist because he allows it to exist or that he is not all powerful and he is not able to stop it.

If in "evil"you mean ( as what you described below) " things made up in relation to how we treat each other" why is that God's job to prevent? It is a trial, it's your job to be a better person and do what's right. And if you don't know what "right" is then it's your duty to figure it out for yourself. That's what I think anyway.

how about this though....maybe there is no such thing as evil... and good and evil are things humans made up in relation to how we treat each other. Is the lion evil when he snaps the neck of the zebra? i can cite various other examples from the animal world(some quite extreme)

No it's not evil, nor am I when I eat my fried chicken at night.

[chrono]

If in "evil"you mean ( as what you described below) " things made up in relation to how we treat each other" why is that God's job to prevent? It is a trial, it's your job to be a better person and do what's right. And if you don't know what "right" is then it's your duty to figure it out for yourself. That's what I think anyway.



No it's not evil, nor am I when I eat my fried chicken at night.

who determines whats right,wrong,good, evil if not us. you say its my job to find out whats right(i agree) but right is a relative term it does not really exist(see previous post ).i might think it is right to kill people who disagree with my religion(as a lot of people have and still do) and i can find some religious text to back up my beliefs.


and if it is not gods job then why go through the trouble of sending saviors and human sacrifices. does the creator not take responsibility for his creations?

or maybe gods and demons are just a number of things we have invented since our time here.

i see you have no answer for Epicurus riddle or my thoughts on it.

[Joe]

who determines whats right,wrong,good, evil if not us. you say its my job to find out whats right(i agree) but right is a relative term it does not really exist(see previous post ).i might think it is right to kill people who disagree with my religion(as a lot of people have and still do) and i can find some religious text to back up my beliefs.


and if it is not gods job then why go through the trouble of sending saviors and human sacrifices. does the creator not take responsibility for his creations?

or maybe gods and demons are just a number of things we have invented since our time here.

i see you have no answer for Epicurus riddle or my thoughts on it.

The concept of "rightness" does in fact exist outside of subjective morality. Things that are right benefit society as a whole, and make it possible for people to live together without tearing each other apart. Not stealing is considered right, for example, because When I keep my things, and you keep Your things, everyone wins. Those few who do NOT agree with these concepts are deviants, and since their morals are largely unpopular, they remain a minority.

As for whether preventing the general consensus on what is evil, that is what laws are for. Look, for example, at the Code of Hammurabi. Before written law, most societies were heavily chaotic and rife with lawlessness. Once the code was enacted however, with Strict punishments for breaking any of the laws (which were laid down, btw, to prevent people doing wrong things, like stealing or murser) Much more was able to be accomplished.

Also, Prove that there was a savior, angels, and demons, without telling me to take it on faith. And who says that it's the creators job to take charge of his creations? When you were young and you built houses and things with Legos, did you feel responsible for what happened to them after you finished making them? I'd bet not.

As for your statement about the nature of evil. Evil is a fairly common concept that generalizes the majority of acts that harm society. Evil only applies to human culture, however, since Humans are the only known creatures able to comprehend. Evil is not killing an animal for food, as Gypsy said, because that is survival. Evil is killing another human in an act other than in self-defense, or at the defense of another (Re: Murder).

Again, not god's job to prevent Evil from happening. That's on us.


Annnnnd that was your daily ramble from Moog.

[chrono]

The concept of "rightness" does in fact exist outside of subjective morality. Things that are right benefit society as a whole, and make it possible for people to live together without tearing each other apart. Not stealing is considered right, for example, because When I keep my things, and you keep Your things, everyone wins. Those few who do NOT agree with these concepts are deviants, and since their morals are largely unpopular, they remain a minority.

As for whether preventing the general consensus on what is evil, that is what laws are for. Look, for example, at the Code of Hammurabi. Before written law, most societies were heavily chaotic and rife with lawlessness. Once the code was enacted however, with Strict punishments for breaking any of the laws (which were laid down, btw, to prevent people doing wrong things, like stealing or murser) Much more was able to be accomplished.

Also, Prove that there was a savior, angels, and demons, without telling me to take it on faith. And who says that it's the creators job to take charge of his creations? When you were young and you built houses and things with Legos, did you feel responsible for what happened to them after you finished making them? I'd bet not.

As for your statement about the nature of evil. Evil is a fairly common concept that generalizes the majority of acts that harm society. Evil only applies to human culture, however, since Humans are the only known creatures able to comprehend. Evil is not killing an animal for food, as Gypsy said, because that is survival. Evil is killing another human in an act other than in self-defense, or at the defense of another (Re: Murder).

Again, not god's job to prevent Evil from happening. That's on us.


Annnnnd that was your daily ramble from Moog.

first off legos are not living creatures that i created if they were i would feel responsible for them. The same as i would feel responsible for my child(why do they call god father again?)

i agree with your point on systems of social control such as laws,courts,jails etc there are plenty of examples in history of societies where the laws have been ludicrous by todays standards of a free society. just look at any society that is influenced heavily by fundamentalist religious dogma. society does not always pick what is best for itself or even its citizens.

that is your definition of evil? what if i am a slave who kills my slave master to obtain my freedom? or what if i kill to free myself from an oppressive government regime? am i now evil? neither was in self defense in the mortal sense i could have continued my life as a slave or as an oppressed citizen.

Edit: you can not tell by my previous post that i do not believe in demons, gods and other fairy tales.

and...no evil is not a fairly common concept. Things that are right benefit society as a whole.....i have to disagree it might benefit society as a whole to kill off all non productive citizens. i doubt you would see this as right.

[Sasquatch]

The issue in this thread is that people don't care to know anything. No, even more than that. They don't want to know anything.

Instead of asking "how does your religion address this topic, issue, or question?", all too many petty little children sit back and say (either to themselves, or through typing, or by posting extremely stupid and flat-out dishonest pictures and comics), "I have my beliefs, and you have yours, and whatever you try to tell me, I will refuse to even listen to because I have already lost respect for everything that may come out of your mouth."

Now the kicker is this -- when a religious person refuses to change their stance on an issue and believe (not just see or understand, but support) a completely opposite stance, they are called "closed-minded". At the least.

But when an anti-religious person (not non-religious, as there are plenty of decent non-religious people, but anti-religious) comes out and says -- with words, text, or stupid little webcomics -- that no matter what, they do not respect people with different religious beliefs? Others will laugh or agree, but not call them out on the truth -- that they have declared that they want to remain ignorant.

The ironic thing is that I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the majority of people who have such an immature, childish problem with religion also believe in Evolutionism, which is a religion in and of itself.

[chrono]

The ironic thing is that I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the majority of people who have such an immature, childish problem with religion also believe in Evolutionism, which is a religion in and of itself.

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...KK0S1yir7V.jpg

If i have to point out the diffrence to you than lord help me(hehehe).


Evolution is a scientific theory.Religions are philosophical Theories at best(im being generous).

Huge Diffrence

You can not even begin to grasp evolution unless you actually take the time to study it for yourself. Reading articles about it from your local church or the watchtower will not cut it.

I can point you in the direction of a thread started by someone who has a Ph.D in evolutionary biology to answer questions people have about evolution. Would you like it?

Oh, and gypys elder a very basic law of logic is that one connot be called to prove a negative. In other words we do not have to give you reasons for being an atheist the burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim.

I.E. if i said a pink unicorn made the universe you do not have to waste your time trying to prove me wrong......it is i that must provide evidence for my claim. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim not the one who laughs at you for believing in virgin births and talking snakes(assuming you are a christian).

Long story short we do not have to give you a view or reasons why we are not superstitions.

Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.-Arthur Schopenhauer

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything-Friedrich Nietzsche

[GypsyElder]

Oh, and gypys elder a very basic law of logic is that one connot be called to prove a negative. In other words we do not have to give you reasons for being an atheist the burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim.

Who said anything about proof? I'm not asking you to prove anything to me, I would much rather see reasons why you think the way you do, because I'm interested not to prove you wrong.

I.E. if i said a pink unicorn made the universe you do not have to waste your time trying to prove me wrong......

A pink unicorn didn't make the universe?

it is i that must provide evidence for my claim. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim not the one who laughs at you for believing in virgin births and talking snakes(assuming you are a christian).

erm.....no not Christian.

[chrono]

Who said anything about proof? I'm not asking you to prove anything to me, I would much rather see reasons why you think that way because I'm interested not to prove you wrong.

I get what you are saying do you get what i am saying?


The point is i do not have to formulate any reasons. you need to ask the believers to give you reasons as to why they believe in eternal life and invisible overseers.They are the ones that "think a certain way".

I do not collect coins or stamps or believe in elves or cherubs either do i have to give you an intelligent reason as to why i do not do and believe in those things to?

Just because millions of people do or believe in such things does not automatically make it a truth or a reasonable theory that you have to have a "reason" to not believe in.

Edit: It seems to me that since so many people are religious and we are not that we(atheist\agnostics) must have some special reason as to why we are not following the trend and that special reason is what you want to know. Am i right?

[Sasquatch]

Evolution is a scientific theory.Religions are philosophical Theories at best(im being generous).

Evolution is a "scientific theory"? Hahahahahahahahah.

Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Evolutionism (including "big bang"): Let's see ... cause? Check. Nature? Check. Purpose? Nope, not really, unless you count "continuing". Especially if the universe is considered as the creation of a superhuman agency? Well, let's see, both Evolutionism and the Big Bang would have had to break multiple laws of nature, so whatever made them happen had to have some supernatural abilities, so check. Moral code? Nah, not really. So yeah, Evolutionism fits the bill of a religion.

Those who believe Evolutionism are either ignorant or arrogant. Now, I'll give some a break -- a lot of people are ignorant, they don't really know the truth, only what public schools have forced down their throats their entire lives. But all too many others are just arrogant about it -- either they know better and refuse to believe it, or they don't know better and refuse to learn.

But we're not here to discuss Evolutionism.

You can not even begin to grasp evolution unless you actually take the time to study it for yourself.

And apparently anybody who disagrees with you hasn't taken the time to study it for themselves?

Oh, and gypys elder a very basic law of logic is that one connot be called to prove a negative. In other words we do not have to give you reasons for being an atheist the burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim.

Actually, if the two sides are "a higher power exists" and "no higher power exists", the burden would be on those who deny the existence of a higher power, seeing as a belief in a higher power has been held by more people since the beginning of time.

The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim not the one who laughs at you for believing in virgin births and talking snakes(assuming you are a christian).

Way to show your ignorance again, kid. There were no talking snakes in the Bible. But keep it up, it's only getting more amusing.

... do i have to give you an intelligent reason as to why i do not do and believe in those things to?

Of course not. You don't need an intelligent reason for anything you believe. But I'm pretty sure you've already shown that.

Just because millions of people do or believe in such things does not automatically make it a truth or a reasonable theory that you have to have a "reason" to not believe in.

Like Evolutionism? Or does that only apply to commonplace beliefs that you personally don't buy into?

Edit: It seems to me that since so many people are religious and we are not that we(atheist\agnostics) must have some special reason as to why we are not following the trend and that special reason is what you want to know. Am i right?

Actually, the "trend" would be Atheism.

I used to be religious heck i grew up christian just like most other americans. It is my open mind that brought me to shed that skin.

And it's your open mind that brought you to reject anybody who holds different beliefs and insult them?

and i did not "dismiss" sasquatchs post he made many claims i responded to the one i wanted to respond to. Next time i will go tit for tat line for line just for you(seriously).

Right. You didn't "dismiss" anything, you just happened to only want to address the last line and not the rest of it. C'mon, try addressing the entire post.

What!!!! my degree was for nothing!!!!!!!!!!!noooooooooooooooooo.

Degree? I bet it's a PhD, isn't it? Or an MD? A Master's at the very least. And let me guess, you went to an expensive, prestigious school, graduated at the top of your class, got laid with a different woman every night, and now you're making a six-figure salary with two or three topless secretaries, driving home to your mansion every day, parking your BMW in the garage, and trying lobster tonight because you're getting bored with fillet mignon?

we will proabably never see each other so do not incite hate on a forum by calling me a fool. In unarmed combat you would proabably lose to me in quick fashion via choke or jointlock(my sig is not just decoration). You might win who knows we will never find out so please quit name calling.

...

You ****in' serious, kid?

You're actually going to make a "I can kick your ass!" comment through an anonymous post on an internet video gaming forum?

That is just ... hilarious!

I mean, I was just bullshitting with the college stuff, then I come to find out that you're actually one of those types of people. Awesome. Man, can I call 'em.

I have not attacked anyones character in anyone of my post or made any attacks what so ever.I have stated my reasons and backed them up nothing more nothing less.

Alright, two things. First, if you think you haven't made "any attacks what so ever [sic]", what do you think "pointing out absurdities", "people living inside of giant fish" (which didn't happen -- yet more ignorance of the Bible, but continue), "a guy with super human strength because of the length of his hair" (again, incorrect, but since you don't know much about the Bible and the religion you despise, I can't expect much), referencing religions as "superstitions" (well you screwed that up too, but we got the idea), referencing religions as "fairy tales", etc. etc. are? Again, the arrogance is showing. And second -- you haven't stated reasons, you haven't backed up anything, you've only claimed that you don't need reasons or backing for not believing.

The issue that still hasn't come up is whether you're a hard Atheist or a soft Atheist ... and if you're a hard Atheist, all of your anti-faith bullshit just becomes more ironic, because it takes faith to believe that there is no power higher than humans or nature.

Edit:Nobody wants the thread with the Ph.D in evolutionary biology explaining evolution in detail?

Nobody wants to talk to a kid who pretends to have a PhD in evolutionary biology.

What methods do other religions use to spread their reach on a global scale?

Well it's a little different now than it used to be. For most religions (or at least the controlling churches/etc of those religions), much of the "spreading the word" was handled with military invasions. While they'd be mistaken to think such, many people believe that the Crusades were all about religion -- while religion had a part in it, and was used as a motivational force, there wasn't a "we should invade them because they're not Christian" idea. There was, however, on the side of Islam -- hell, Islam's first major action was a military invasion.

So the way it used to be was military invasion, prettymuch everywhere. "Worship my god or I'll kill you" is a pretty good way to convert most people.

Nowadays ... oh, there's a lot. Churches provide myriad services to great numbers of people, for two main reasons. First, it's an opportunity -- if I open a soup kitchen and feed homeless people every night, I have a chance to tell them about my religion. Second, it's simple outreach -- those homeless people might hate religion, but after seeing how nice people of my religion are, or just hanging around and having fun for a while, they might realize that the religion isn't as bad as they thought. There are also a lot of youth programs -- again, the idea behind most is not "come learn about our religion", because that's boring to most kids. The idea is "come have fun and we'll teach you about our religion in the process".

Then, of course, there's witnessing and testimony. Say, you pick up a hitchhiker or somebody that broke down, and you share your religion with him on the way. Though much of my morality is a bit lacking in practice, I still pray over every meal, and probably half a dozen times, I've had guys ask me to pray for them while I'm at it, or to pray out loud, or to lead the table in saying grace. Some religions go a few steps further with this and go door-to-door, but most don't.

Then there's bigger organizations with bigger meetings. Still the same thing, though, prettymuch. There's a group called Promise Keepers that focuses on not just Christian men, but men as a whole. So they attract people by saying, "hey, if you want to be a good man, come on in and listen to us and we'll help." Not just a good Christian, but a good man in general. There's even stuff like church softball leagues -- even people who aren't big on church but who like softball can come play.

And you always have outreach missions, too. A church -- or private donors, or an organization, or whatever -- will send somebody, or a few people, to a different country, one that hasn't had much exposure to their religion. And these people won't go just to yap their religion all the time, they'll try to help, too, and preach while they're at it. My brother took a mission trip to Peru once, and his group dug wells, helped raise crops and animals, and built buildings, then on days that they weren't working, they'd sit down with whoever'd listen and talk about Christianity.

This even outstretches to atheism. Why do atheists try to disprove other religions if not to bring people to the knowledge of their own views? Is there even a sense in reaching out to other people to show them that they may be misguided among other religions?

That depends on the person. Atheism is quite different than (most) other religions because there are no concerns about an "afterlife". You could say that a Christian is obligated to try to convert people to their religion. If I'm a Christian, and I believe that only Christians are going to avoid spending an eternity in Hell, what kind of a shitbag would I be if I figured, "well I'm good, so they're on their own"? But if I'm an Atheist, what's my incentive to convert others? If I was Atheist, I wouldn't believe that people who weren't Atheists would go through any hardship because of their beliefs, so why would it matter much if I got them to change their beliefs?

From what I've found, there are two types of Atheists. You've got those -- like Govinda here -- that respectfully disagree with others and explain why they hold different beliefs. They don't start out with "you're wrong and stupid", but they rationally explain why their beliefs differ.

Then, you've got the other kind. The kind of petty little child who isn't an Atheist because it's what they've found to be "most satisfying" to them, but who's an Atheist because they can use it to piss other people off. The kind who thinks that their beliefs don't need any support or backing, the kind that insults the beliefs of others and those who hold them, the kind who makes threats over the internet ... you know the kind.