And i choose the path of a Jedi for my religion, may the force be with you.
Printable View
And i choose the path of a Jedi for my religion, may the force be with you.
This raises excellent questions that should be discussed. Does one really choose their own religion? If one is indoctrinated as a child, what causes the person to stick with it other than family tradition? Why does conversion really happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
As an example, I was raised in a Roman Catholic household; not strict by any means, but we'd go to church every Saturday. For a while I was even an altar boy and the Chaplain Aide of my Boy Scout troop.
I'm not going to go into a deconversion story here, but I think that in most cases, 'picking' a religion doesn't happen; it's a matter of how you were raised. When people convert from one religion to another, I've found that it's usually out of confusion... these people don't really know what to believe, so they pick the religion that makes the most sense to them at the time. Whether said decision is rational or irrational? Also up for debate.
I made my own belief system. It goes like this:
Trees are cool
The sky is cool
Outside is pretty when it rains
Children are the best people around
Cats are cooler than we
You have no excuse for being unhappy unless you were born on a rubbish tip in Mumbai or similar, so stop whining
Money is just money, don't hoard it - it can buy someone a roof or a flushing toilet, you know
Everyone has the right to their own faith and opinions unless they are directly harmful, it's about what gets you through the day sane
No God had anything to do with: MRI machines, defibrilators, comfy duvets; no God had anything to do with M-16's, nuclear weaponry, and Twitter
The sky will always be blue until the sun blows us up
So respect that shit and look after all of it because, here's the deal, your life actually DOES depend on it.
I'm not recruiting disciples right now, but you can apply anyway.
Faith is always a personal choice, even if you're raised a certain way. I was raised athiest, but I'm not crazy-athiest. I HATE EVANGELICALS. I don't care if you're Mormon or Muslim or athiest or what, just leave me be, thank you. I can make up my own mind.
I'm not a fan of organised religion. I really don't see why I should have to apologise to anyone for having pre-marital sex, thank you very much.
My opinion on religion can be summed up by these words: whatever gets you through the day.
My cousin converted. His family was not very religious, and neither was he, but part of our family is Jewish. I think our grandmother was shocked when she learned he had converted... haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Red Mage
If you asked why he converted, he would probably say it was some sort of divine inspiration. But it only started when he met his girlfriend and now wife, who seems to be quite a devout Christian herself. He loves her very, very, very much. When asked what he thought of a God who would send the rest of his family to Hell, he said, "Well, I don't know, but I think I'll be so happy in Heaven that I won't have to worry about it."
It seems like a matter of priorities and the like, to me. He loves his wife a lot and has very little attachment to his current religion, so he switched. It may be if you are presented with a religion that offers you "more" and doesn't go against every moral fiber in your body, there's a good chance you'll go for it. Yet, many people who have been brought into a particular religion from birth probably find it very familiar and comforting, and are content to stick with what they have.
I personally haven't belonged to any organized religion, though, so I wouldn't "really" know.
I don't think you can just choose a religion, but you can choose a path which might possibly follow a particular religion, therefore making you part of it. "Choosing" a religion isn't like choosing which clothes to wear in the morning. It's a massive decision which needs a lot of thought put into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
I think that for a religion to be taken seriously, you'd need to of have been raised on it by your parents or school or whatever. Some people have turned to religion when something happens in their life which is either good (possibly love) or bad (illness or disease).
I was raised to be a Christian. A load of shit happened to make me question Christianity. What annoyed me was that when I put these questions forward to my teachers and even the vicar, I wasn't given a proper answer, which therefore lead to even more questions. Eventually, they stopped giving me answers because they got pissed that I was wasting their time I can imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
When I went to my secondary school, I hadn't heard of other religions because we were pretty much sheltered from it at my primary school. In my new class, I talked to the Muslim girls and asked about their religion. I must have asked too many questions again because they got pissy with me, leaving me saying: "I was only curious..."
Why, when religion is questioned, do people tend to back off and get defensive as if the curious people are trying to disprove or take a dig at the path this person has chosen? I know not everyone knows the answers - heck there might not even be a straight answer - but an opinion to me is as good as an answer. Everyone should be able to question their own religion, and form their own opinion of it instead of viewing it as how they're "supposed" to.
When it comes to converting to another religion, I believe it's something that requires a lot of thought and research. It's not possible to become a Christian* overnight.
*I used it as an example. Feel free to change it to whatever.
Sounds like my kinda belief system. Where do I sign?Quote:
Originally Posted by Govinda
Unknown you have a lot of good views and I support every single one of them...
I think this is true. I didn't choose to be atheist I just followed a path that cause me to question everything that I had learnt about religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
Fact, it took me a few years to even become a atheist. I also know many friends who thought long and hard about their religion choices and still don't know what to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
I was raised in a strong christian family but over time my belief in it began to fade. I just stopped believing that there was a force that basically controlled us all..Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
Same thing happened to me. Noone would ever give me a straight answer, and at the time I was going to a christian school so you would think if I had any doubts or questions about the religion they would tell me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
I think it is because they feel that everyone might actually be trying to disprove their religion. You have all these religious fanatics who take thing s to far some times and it sacres everyone of that religion. You talked about speaking with muslims girls nowadays in the united states muslims are often shunned due to 9/11. I have many Muslim friends and none of them are bad people, but due to the acts of a few fanatics everyone has began to despise them and their religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
This is a fact, if you choose a religion quickly to me that shows that you either don't care or you are uneducated on it. I studied many different religions: buddhism, taoism, etc...None of which were appeling to me except for maybe taoism it was very interesting so was buddhism...It is a difficult decision that should not be taken lightly and should be though about for longer than a day or two...Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Entity
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/...1a0ef78f7b.jpg
that pretty much sums it up for me. if god is all powerful and capable of anything then you must be of the opinion that evil exist because he allows it to exist or that he is not all powerful and he is not able to stop it.
how about this though....maybe there is no such thing as evil... and good and evil are things humans made up in relation to how we treat each other. Is the lion evil when he snaps the neck of the zebra? i can cite various other examples from the animal world(some quite extreme)
either way i am not going to believe in any being that wants constant praise and worship. i guess his daddy ran out on him as a kid or something.
If in "evil"you mean ( as what you described below) " things made up in relation to how we treat each other" why is that God's job to prevent? It is a trial, it's your job to be a better person and do what's right. And if you don't know what "right" is then it's your duty to figure it out for yourself. That's what I think anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono
No it's not evil, nor am I when I eat my fried chicken at night.Quote:
how about this though....maybe there is no such thing as evil... and good and evil are things humans made up in relation to how we treat each other. Is the lion evil when he snaps the neck of the zebra? i can cite various other examples from the animal world(some quite extreme)
who determines whats right,wrong,good, evil if not us. you say its my job to find out whats right(i agree) but right is a relative term it does not really exist(see previous post ).i might think it is right to kill people who disagree with my religion(as a lot of people have and still do) and i can find some religious text to back up my beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy Elder
and if it is not gods job then why go through the trouble of sending saviors and human sacrifices. does the creator not take responsibility for his creations?
or maybe gods and demons are just a number of things we have invented since our time here.
i see you have no answer for Epicurus riddle or my thoughts on it.
The concept of "rightness" does in fact exist outside of subjective morality. Things that are right benefit society as a whole, and make it possible for people to live together without tearing each other apart. Not stealing is considered right, for example, because When I keep my things, and you keep Your things, everyone wins. Those few who do NOT agree with these concepts are deviants, and since their morals are largely unpopular, they remain a minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono
As for whether preventing the general consensus on what is evil, that is what laws are for. Look, for example, at the Code of Hammurabi. Before written law, most societies were heavily chaotic and rife with lawlessness. Once the code was enacted however, with Strict punishments for breaking any of the laws (which were laid down, btw, to prevent people doing wrong things, like stealing or murser) Much more was able to be accomplished.
Also, Prove that there was a savior, angels, and demons, without telling me to take it on faith. And who says that it's the creators job to take charge of his creations? When you were young and you built houses and things with Legos, did you feel responsible for what happened to them after you finished making them? I'd bet not.
As for your statement about the nature of evil. Evil is a fairly common concept that generalizes the majority of acts that harm society. Evil only applies to human culture, however, since Humans are the only known creatures able to comprehend. Evil is not killing an animal for food, as Gypsy said, because that is survival. Evil is killing another human in an act other than in self-defense, or at the defense of another (Re: Murder).
Again, not god's job to prevent Evil from happening. That's on us.
Annnnnd that was your daily ramble from Moog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogable
first off legos are not living creatures that i created if they were i would feel responsible for them. The same as i would feel responsible for my child(why do they call god father again?)
i agree with your point on systems of social control such as laws,courts,jails etc there are plenty of examples in history of societies where the laws have been ludicrous by todays standards of a free society. just look at any society that is influenced heavily by fundamentalist religious dogma. society does not always pick what is best for itself or even its citizens.
that is your definition of evil? what if i am a slave who kills my slave master to obtain my freedom? or what if i kill to free myself from an oppressive government regime? am i now evil? neither was in self defense in the mortal sense i could have continued my life as a slave or as an oppressed citizen.
Edit: you can not tell by my previous post that i do not believe in demons, gods and other fairy tales.
and...no evil is not a fairly common concept. Things that are right benefit society as a whole.....i have to disagree it might benefit society as a whole to kill off all non productive citizens. i doubt you would see this as right.
For me, religion is a system, and alot of humanity thrives on systems. However, I also believe that belief in god is ultimately a gross underestimation of the power of the mind and the indominable human spirit. To believe that there exists a problem that man cannot fix for himself, is folly. To say that you leave your life in god's hands is like letting go of the wheel, and there is no one in the passenger seat to take control. You are, in essence, a runaway train, which is often times dangerous to others. I do not liken man to "god", I merely suggest that if there is a god, he has better things to do than help you pass a test, or mend your fences for you. Religion is an excuse to shirk the responsibility of living. It's easy to say that something is god's will, but living means handling your own life, good or bad, for what it's worth. I think that "god" will appreciate that of us if such a thing indeed greets us upon death.
I'm going to save myself time from typing and post 2 pics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...igionowned.gif
annnd
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...esustahdah.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loaf
That is funny but i damn near went blind trying to read that first picture. I find it most intresting that religious people can point out the absurdities in other religions but can not seem to notice the absurdities in their own.
It truly is willful ignorance. virgin births, people living inside of giant fish, and a guy with super human strength because of the length of his hair geez la weez the things people will believe and follow.
bottom line is reality>comfort.
Remember, you two, that you are posting in the ID forum. There are rules set here that require more content then that. I wil go ahead and say that I am speaking of length of the typed sections; I am not saying to post more pictures.
Content goes up or warning levels will go up, the choice is yours.
@ Loaf's comic.
Why is there evil?
How would we know good for what it is without evil?
Who Made God?
Who made it so we can't comprehend things that may have always existed?
Or did we just come into being from absolute nothingness which of course makes a ton more sense than an eternal creator being.
Why Should I Trust You After The Whole Santa Claus Thing?
Because Santa Claus, aka Saint Nicolas bastardised by people who couldn't say his name worth shit actually existed. Wiki the bugger if you don't believe me.
That is all.
The issue in this thread is that people don't care to know anything. No, even more than that. They don't want to know anything.
Instead of asking "how does your religion address this topic, issue, or question?", all too many petty little children sit back and say (either to themselves, or through typing, or by posting extremely stupid and flat-out dishonest pictures and comics), "I have my beliefs, and you have yours, and whatever you try to tell me, I will refuse to even listen to because I have already lost respect for everything that may come out of your mouth."
Now the kicker is this -- when a religious person refuses to change their stance on an issue and believe (not just see or understand, but support) a completely opposite stance, they are called "closed-minded". At the least.
But when an anti-religious person (not non-religious, as there are plenty of decent non-religious people, but anti-religious) comes out and says -- with words, text, or stupid little webcomics -- that no matter what, they do not respect people with different religious beliefs? Others will laugh or agree, but not call them out on the truth -- that they have declared that they want to remain ignorant.
The ironic thing is that I'd be willing to put money on the fact that the majority of people who have such an immature, childish problem with religion also believe in Evolutionism, which is a religion in and of itself.
I feel like, I have yet to actually read a legitimate atheist view in here, all I see is "I'm an atheist and I'm going to point out everything that doesn't make sense in life." There are lots of interesting reasons I've heard for people being atheist, for example my friend told me that the reason why he is, is because he thinks that humans don't have faith in each other, that's why we look to a higher entity. Kind of made me think.....
I have a question, and I hope this doesn't sound wrong, but is being atheist like, a trend now or something ?
Not to everyone, but I'm finding more and more people claiming to be atheist, is this because it's just easier to believe in no god ? When you believe in a religion, there are lots of questions, and since we as human beings don't have all the answers people may say "none of this makes sense so I believe in nothing". I think it takes a stronger person to believe in a higher entity because it's not there in physical form.
just some thoughts.
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...KK0S1yir7V.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
If i have to point out the diffrence to you than lord help me(hehehe).
Evolution is a scientific theory.Religions are philosophical Theories at best(im being generous).
Huge Diffrence
You can not even begin to grasp evolution unless you actually take the time to study it for yourself. Reading articles about it from your local church or the watchtower will not cut it.
I can point you in the direction of a thread started by someone who has a Ph.D in evolutionary biology to answer questions people have about evolution. Would you like it?
Oh, and gypys elder a very basic law of logic is that one connot be called to prove a negative. In other words we do not have to give you reasons for being an atheist the burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim.
I.E. if i said a pink unicorn made the universe you do not have to waste your time trying to prove me wrong......it is i that must provide evidence for my claim. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim not the one who laughs at you for believing in virgin births and talking snakes(assuming you are a christian).
Long story short we do not have to give you a view or reasons why we are not superstitions.
Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.-Arthur Schopenhauer
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything-Friedrich Nietzsche
Who said anything about proof? I'm not asking you to prove anything to me, I would much rather see reasons why you think the way you do, because I'm interested not to prove you wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono
A pink unicorn didn't make the universe? :( :(Quote:
I.E. if i said a pink unicorn made the universe you do not have to waste your time trying to prove me wrong......
erm.....no not Christian.Quote:
it is i that must provide evidence for my claim. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim not the one who laughs at you for believing in virgin births and talking snakes(assuming you are a christian).
I get what you are saying do you get what i am saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy Elder
The point is i do not have to formulate any reasons. you need to ask the believers to give you reasons as to why they believe in eternal life and invisible overseers.They are the ones that "think a certain way".
I do not collect coins or stamps or believe in elves or cherubs either do i have to give you an intelligent reason as to why i do not do and believe in those things to?
Just because millions of people do or believe in such things does not automatically make it a truth or a reasonable theory that you have to have a "reason" to not believe in.
Edit: It seems to me that since so many people are religious and we are not that we(atheist\agnostics) must have some special reason as to why we are not following the trend and that special reason is what you want to know. Am i right?
Gypsy Elder has absolutely no obligation to show you proof of anything. The world isn't a science classroom. People don't have to prove their beliefs scientifically to believe them, least of all do they have to prove them to you. That's why they're personal beliefs, because they're personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono
And strictly speaking, from an epistemological and metaphysical standpoint, nothing can be proven. Everything you think you know is taken on some level of faith. All it comes down to is a subjective ordering of what you believe more likely to be true and what you believe less likely to be true that congeals into your common sense.
It's a real shame that you completely dismissed the rest of Sasquatch's post, because you're only proving his point with your closed-minded behavior. In the end, you're no different from the fundamentalists that you use to represent all of religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin
And you started knowing me on the personal level when? oh, ok
I used to be religious heck i grew up christian just like most other americans. It is my open mind that brought me to shed that skin.
and i did not "dismiss" sasquatchs post he made many claims i responded to the one i wanted to respond to. Next time i will go tit for tat line for line just for you(seriously).
"And strictly speaking, from an epistemological and metaphysical standpoint, nothing can be proven. Everything you think you know is taken on some level of faith. All it comes down to is a subjective ordering of what you believe more likely to be true and what you believe less likely to be true that congeals into your common sense".
What!!!! my degree was for nothing!!!!!!!!!!!noooooooooooooooooo.
and on a sub-atomic level the entire universe is just a big soup of diffrent particles. What is your point?
Chrono is that atheist who is worse then a crazy christian.
Lashing out at everyone who has belief. Don't yell at me for believing in myself now.
Jin never said he knew you personally, he never said anything about you personally. Can you not read? There is no special reason to be an Atheist/Agnostic, what did you get a special phone call from someone telling you something and be like OMG ATHEIST. People become Atheists because they have their own reason, not some special crap. Also collecting coins has nothing to do with religion, you are a fool.
I didn't realize they offered degrees in programs that certified one to know everything. Really though, this is just a crying shame. You clearly have no idea what I'm getting at, so I don't think I'll bother. I've put the idea out there, you don't seem to agree, so this is pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono
In the end, you're no different from the fundamentalists that you use to represent all of religion-jinQuote:
Originally Posted by Loaf
all of the above are personal claims.
you loaf cannot make an intelligent response so you revert to name calling on the internet....that is very low. we will proabably never see each other so do not incite hate on a forum by calling me a fool. In unarmed combat you would proabably lose to me in quick fashion via choke or jointlock(my sig is not just decoration). You might win who knows we will never find out so please quit name calling.
Maybe you can make an intelligent response but it sure did not shine through in your post. I have not attacked anyones character in anyone of my post or made any attacks what so ever.I have stated my reasons and backed them up nothing more nothing less.
If you are offended by that in some way then you have my apologies.
Just what part of any of my post do you or jin disagree with? please be specific.
Edit:Nobody wants the thread with the Ph.D in evolutionary biology explaining evolution in detail?
What is the point of this thread now ?....
I have my own "reasons" for believing in what I do just like everyone else, I didn't just fart a belief, and roll with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono
You missed it.Quote:
I get what you are saying do you get what i am saying?
The point is i do not have to formulate any reasons. you need to ask the believers to give you reasons as to why they believe in eternal life and invisible overseers.They are the ones that "think a certain way".
I do not collect coins or stamps or believe in elves or cherubs either do i have to give you an intelligent reason as to why i do not do and believe in those things to?[
Edit: It seems to me that since so many people are religious and we are not that we(atheist\agnostics) must have some special reason as to why we are not following the trend and that special reason is what you want to know. Am i right?
I was looking for different "reasons", as in to see things in a different point of view, opposite from my own beliefs, but all you're doing still, is pointlessly going on about how you don't have to prove anything to me, which I'm not expecting out of you/ think you can.
Why would you even bother looking at a religions thread?
what i was posting is the atheist point of view from a true atheist. I went a little deeper than your original question but your question was answered in full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy Elder
my post was not just me saying i do not have to prove anything to you. you are oversimplifying it. I provided a reason as to why the atheist does not have\need to provide a reason for disbelief in superstions.
you said something along the lines of it takes more heart or strength(something like that) to believe in superstions. i provided the reason why an atheist is not superstitious and the reasons why he does not have to provide a reason for it by stating that the burden of proof is on the believer(and it is).
long story short you got your "reasons" for an opposing\diffrent view.
I am not even going to address ann b.
Friedrich Nietzsche>ann b
last i posted in this thread because it is titled religions-YOUR OPINION.
Edit: see jin tit for tat line for line.
Yes. YOUR OPINION. Not 'WHY YOUR OPINION IS WRONG'. We're all supposed to be respecting eachothers opinions, not calling eachother closed-minded. That's why this is in the intellectual discussion thread. So far, I haven't learned anything from your posts. You're just spouting the same nonsense over and over again, missing everyone else's points and bitching about how they fail to understand you.. like some emo kid. Is atheism the new emo fad?Quote:
last i posted in this thread because it is titled religions-YOUR OPINION.
I always thought atheism was quite boring.
http://www.deeppencil.com/images/head-in-sand.JPG
I don't mean to digress from all this back and forth discussion that has been going on but I actually have some questions and I'm interested in your opinions...
What methods do other religions use to spread their reach on a global scale? I know a bit about some Christian methods like evangelization which spreads into church planting and missions trips, door to door, street evangelism. All I've learned about Muslim's is what I've heard as Islamization (Which is where the migrate to another part of the world and just keep having kids until they have the majority.) but I can't help but feel ignorant in thinking that way. I don't really want to hear how much you hate one method or another but rather what methods you have seen or heard of yourself.
What do other religions do? Do they just raise their children to follow after them, or think that people will just somehow be led to follow in their ways? This even outstretches to atheism. Why do atheists try to disprove other religions if not to bring people to the knowledge of their own views? Is there even a sense in reaching out to other people to show them that they may be misguided among other religions?
I'm sorry that I seem like I'm butting in, but I'm just curious as to what your opinions are.