Religions - Your Opinion

[Reverend Red Mage]

I am an Atheist personally. I do not mind any Religion, providing they keep themselves to themselves, and stop trying to convert people. I find it sad that people can willingly force a belief upon people (I.E. Jahova Witnesses), and to be fair I believe you deserve all the hatred and insults you get by doing so. I also hate it when people actually try to prove Gods existance. How can you prove someone's faith? You cannot. Stop wasting your time, thinking you're right.

I don't think the word "atheist" should be capitalized... it's not a religion or a system of beliefs. It's a negative stance regarding belief in gods, nothing more. Problems arise when people attempt to associate more with it.

If I said I didn't mind religion, I'd be lying. Religion was a necessary force in ancient times when people needed comfort and explanations about life and transcendentalism. The need is still there, but with numerous strides in scientific and psychological thought, it is steadily dwindling. If it is entirely possible to be good without a belief in some manner of cosmic sky fairy, then let's eliminate all the unnecessary pluralities that, to this day, have been an impediment to the advancement of human civilization.

[Muramasa89]

I don't think the word "atheist" should be capitalized... it's not a religion or a system of beliefs. It's a negative stance regarding belief in gods, nothing more. Problems arise when people attempt to associate more with it.

What does it matter if it should or shouldn't be capitalised? I quite often capitalise words I don't need to. Or are you some politically correct person? And if you're willing to start an argument over a capital letter, then yes, problems will arise. I think I'll stick to saying "Atheist" thanks. Negative stance to belief in Gods? Hah. Then religion to me is a negative stance to Atheism and that christianity, islamic, judaism should not be capitalised. You act as if Atheism is a BAD thing.

[Reverend Red Mage]

What does it matter if it should or shouldn't be capitalised? I quite often capitalise words I don't need to. Or are you some politically correct person? And if you're willing to start an argument over a capital letter, then yes, problems will arise. I think I'll stick to saying "Atheist" thanks. Negative stance to belief in Gods? Hah. Then religion to me is a negative stance to Atheism and that christianity, islamic, judaism should not be capitalised. You act as if Atheism is a BAD thing.

You're proving my point. Atheism is a negative stance; by no means a "bad" one, just the same as theism is not a "good" or "bad" stance.

I just said I don't think atheism should be capitalized, because it's not a proper noun/religion. Capitalize it if you want if you want to go crazy-go-nuts with the shift key, I don't care.

I'm not looking for an argument, either. I stated my opinion. If you disagree with me, fine, but you're probably wrong.

[Muramasa89]

I just said I don't think atheism should be capitalized

Then get off my back and life your own life. Simple as. Did you need to bring something as pathetic as that up? I am well aware it isn't a proper noun, and should old be capitalised upon the start of a sentence.

The topic at hand is religion, not the correct spellings of it.

[Reverend Red Mage]

Then get off my back and life your own life. Simple as. Did you need to bring something as pathetic as that up? I am well aware it isn't a proper noun, and should old be capitalised upon the start of a sentence.

The topic at hand is religion, not the correct spellings of it.

I wasn't on your back to begin with, dude. You assumed I was, and I really have no idea why you're being so defensive about it.

Furthermore, I'm completely aware of what the topic at hand is, which is why I wrote all that other shit.

[Muramasa89]

There was no assumption. And I percieve you to be a troll. Therefore I shan't bother with this anymore.

[Reverend Red Mage]

Fear that which you do not understand, and therefore attack it. It's human nature.

I could elaborate on that, but I'm not sure if I want to go into explicit detail about Biblical stuff. I'm guessing this isn't a bashing thread, and I don't want to be perceived as doing that.

[Meier Link]

Seriously, you two take it to a PM and sort this out civilly. I am issuing both of you a warning, one gets one for spam and the other gets one for trolling. If you choose to continue this fight in this thread I will continue to issue warnings.

Now as I said, take it to PM and quit with the petty squabbling.

If you have ANY qualms with this at all feel free to PM me and we can discuss this further.

[Sasquatch]

War has a multitude of causes. Religion is one, but I'd argue that religion is used more by leaders in fragile societies who are attempting to create an 'us versus them' dichotomy.

Thank you. All too many people don't realize this -- more often than religion being an actual "cause", it's used as a "cause" by leaders who manipulate the religious teachings and use them for justification. This has happened to many, many religions over history.

But I still think resources (Oil; for the Americans) ... are more significant causal factors. Religion is still there, however.

While this argument is commonly used, the fact remains that the United States hasn't gotten a drop of oil from Iraq that wasn't bought on the market for the same price that everybody else pays for oil from Iraq. Petroleum prices have gone up since the start of the conflict, and Iraq, as oil-rich as it is, is only a drop in the bucket (or barrel, if you will) compared to some of the surrounding nations -- Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, etc.

I am an Atheist personally.

Soft or hard? As in, do you just not believe, or do you believe that there is no god? There's a difference.

I do not mind any Religion, providing they keep themselves to themselves, and stop trying to convert people.

So you're alright with other people having different beliefs, as long as they don't tell anybody that their beliefs are different. On the same note, I'm alright with other people being a different color, as long as I don't have to see their skin.*

I find it sad that people can willingly force a belief upon people (I.E. Jahova Witnesses) ...

"Jahova Witnesses [sic]" force their beliefs on people? Wow, I never realized that. I mean, from my experience, I've had them come to my door and want to talk to people, to spread their beliefs, but never with guns, forcing their beliefs upon me. But I guess they do it differently where you live, huh?

... and to be fair I believe you deserve all the hatred and insults you get by doing so.

So you claim to not have a problem with religions or religious people, but you do have a problem with them telling others about their religion, and you don't have a problem with people hating and insulting those who talk about their beliefs. On the same note, I don't have a problem with black people, I just have a problem with them showing me their dark skin (I have my own skin, don't bother showing me yours!), and I don't mind if other people hate and insult black people because of their dark skin.

I also hate it when people actually try to prove Gods existance. How can you prove someone's faith? You cannot

But lemme guess, you have no problem when people try to disprove the existence of a god? What's wrong with people trying to find evidence to support their faith?

Stop wasting your time, thinking you're right.

... Really, kid?

*For those of you who don't realize it -- and yes, I know there will be some -- this is complete sarcasm, meant to show the irrationality of the argument that "you can be different as long as you don't show it". I have no problem with any skin color.

...then let's eliminate all the unnecessary pluralities that, to this day, have been an impediment to the advancement of human civilization.

Of course! And let's ignore the fact that religion has been the cause of advancement of human civilization more often than any sort of "impediment". Let's ignore the fact that it was religious institutions that provided education to most of history's greatest scientific and philosophical minds, it was religious institutions that financed research and invention, it was religious institutions that pushed for advancements in every facet of science, mathematics, and culture. Let's only focus on the fact that a few specific leaders of a few specific religious institutions used their religion to suppress a few specific beliefs.

[Muramasa89]

Soft or hard? As in, do you just not believe, or do you believe that there is no god? There's a difference.

Hard. I believe in no higher entity, or whatever you wish to call God.

So you're alright with other people having different beliefs, as long as they don't tell anybody that their beliefs are different. On the same note, I'm alright with other people being a different color, as long as I don't have to see their skin.*

No. Too many times I've had people blurt out that Christianity (oddly I haven't had this from any other religion) is correct, and the only way you should live. Living anything else is wrong, and you're doomed to Hell. Okay; I get the point that you believe that. But I couldn't give a crap. Leave me alone. Yet they persist.

"Jahova Witnesses [sic]" force their beliefs on people? Wow, I never realized that. I mean, from my experience, I've had them come to my door and want to talk to people, to spread their beliefs, but never with guns, forcing their beliefs upon me. But I guess they do it differently where you live, huh?

I never mentioned guns. There are many forceful ways, and don't necessarily require harming a/the person. Maybe force was the wrong word. But still, they come to your door as you said, and they talk about God. Maybe, just maybe, they don't care? Rather than trying to convert everybody, just let them live their lives. If they wanted to join your religion, they'd seek YOU out.

So you claim to not have a problem with religions or religious people, but you do have a problem with them telling others about their religion, and you don't have a problem with people hating and insulting those who talk about their beliefs. On the same note, I don't have a problem with black people, I just have a problem with them showing me their dark skin (I have my own skin, don't bother showing me yours!), and I don't mind if other people hate and insult black people because of their dark skin.

Again, a problem with them putting their faith upon a person who perhaps might just want to be an Atheist? Put it this way, since you used a racial example:
You throw racist comments; you deserve the same back. Karma, effectively.

But lemme guess, you have no problem when people try to disprove the existence of a god? What's wrong with people trying to find evidence to support their faith?

Did you read my post? You cannot prove someone's faith. So of course I have a problem, with BOTH proving and disproving.

... Really, kid?

Please. Stop using derogatory terms as an argument. You get nowhere. And you do not know my age. So don't assume stuff. My point is valid, you cannot be right or wrong with religion (such as proving or disproving) since it is a matter of what you believe.

[RagnaToad]

Too many times I've had people blurt out that Christianity (oddly I haven't had this from any other religion) is correct, and the only way you should live.

What? You haven't had this with any other religion? I suppose muslim fundamentalists who kill their neighbours for being jews (and vice versa) are not religious people? I'd say every major religion has its extremists who don't tolerate people that give the same God a different name.

But still, they come to your door as you said, and they talk about God.

I see the problem. No, wait, I don't. What's wrong with telling people about your own religion?

Again, a problem with them putting their faith upon a person who perhaps might just want to be an Atheist?

I hope you've never tried to explain someone why God does not exist. If you have, that would make you a hypocrite.

[Imposter]

Question:

I've often heard it said that compassion is a driving force for most evangelism in religion, (It is noted however that also domination is a means as well, seen in Ragna's post above.) the illustration of trying to save someone from a terminal disease has been given. If you had a cure would you not try to give it to them? Even if they didn't think they were sick you would try to explain it to them?

I've never really seen evangelism in other religions except for Christianity (that covering the broad spectrum from Protestant, Roman Catholicism, and even the JW's and Mormons.) That could be though because I'm not surrounded by many other religions where I'm from.

So sure it might be that it is annoying having people come up to you and try to convert you but in their mind's they are trying to save you aren't they? Knowing that this may be the case what is the best reaction?

[Reverend Red Mage]

So sure it might be that it is annoying having people come up to you and try to convert you but in their mind's they are trying to save you aren't they? Knowing that this may be the case what is the best reaction?

Simple. You tell them why you don't believe their claims. Makes for healthy, rational discourse.

::edit by Meier:: Add more content. Read the ID forums rules.

[melibita]

I'm an atheist, believing in no deities. I believe that while people do many good things in the name of religion, they also do many bad things in the name of it, often becoming hypocritical and sometimes outright liars about what their sacred texts/teachings really are saying. I believe people can do the right thing regardless of what religion they are, and shouldn't use it as an excuse to feel superior or do horrible things while only justifying it to themselves. In the end I feel people have every right to believe what they want as long as they are informed about the true shortcomings of the fairy tales they believe in.

[Sasquatch]

Hard. I believe in no higher entity, or whatever you wish to call God.

In that case, your beliefs take as much faith as anybody else's. Why argue about theirs?

No. Too many times I've had people blurt out that Christianity (oddly I haven't had this from any other religion) is correct, and the only way you should live.

How many other religions have you been exposed to? How many times have you "had people blurt out that" their religious beliefs are correct, no matter what they are?

Of course people think that their beliefs are correct. Everybody does. Nobody says, "well I know this to be false, but I'll believe it anyway".

Okay; I get the point that you believe that. But I couldn't give a crap. Leave me alone. Yet they persist.

Just like you come into this thread and discuss your beliefs. How terrible of people to discuss their beliefs! And how utterly vicious of them to want others to share those beliefs!

I never mentioned guns. There are many forceful ways, and don't necessarily require harming a/the person. Maybe force was the wrong word.

Ya think? I've never had anybody "force" me to listen to their religious beliefs -- except, of course, for Evolutionism.

But still, they come to your door as you said, and they talk about God. Maybe, just maybe, they don't care? Rather than trying to convert everybody, just let them live their lives.

... You're serious, aren't you? Wow, that's just ... sad. I'll try to make this simple. Everybody thinks that their own beliefs are correct. Everybody would like others to hold the same beliefs. This is especially true when those beliefs include one of a highly unpleasant eternal life for those who don't hold the same beliefs. They're trying to help you, and all you can do is bitch that they make you go through the inconvenience of answering your parents' door.

If they wanted to join your religion, they'd seek YOU out.

Of course -- because every one of the nearly seven billion people in the world knows full details of every religious belief. I mean, there's just no need to teach anybody anything, since if they wanted to learn it, they'd teach themselves!

Again, a problem with them putting their faith upon a person who perhaps might just want to be an Atheist?

They're telling you about their own beliefs and wanting you to learn more about them and believe them as well. They're not forcing you to do anything -- not even to listen to what they have to say. If you want to be arrogant in your ignorance and refuse to listen to the beliefs of others (while still calling those others "closed-minded", undoubtedly), that's your call, but don't expect to never be called out on your hypocrisy.

Put it this way, since you used a racial example:
You throw racist comments; you deserve the same back. Karma, effectively.

Except that people don't choose to be certain races and can't convert to another. The racial analogy worked for one situation, but completely fails in your attempted usage. Not only that, but also, you are arguing that it's fine to throw racist comments and insults back at somebody who merely discusses their own race.

Did you read my post? You cannot prove someone's faith. So of course I have a problem, with BOTH proving and disproving.

So you're admitting a lack of support for your beliefs. This reveals your ignorance of religion and petty, childish hatred of it as exactly what it is.

Please. Stop using derogatory terms as an argument. You get nowhere.

Yet, I haven't stopped, nor will I. Some people here know that I call many people "kid", depending on the situation. Deal with it.

And you do not know my age. So don't assume stuff.

Of course -- because the lack of maturity and intellect in your posts, along with the "89" in your username, point to absolutely nothing. Besides, as I have explained to others before, I use "kid" as a reference to maturity, not as to how many years one has spent on this earth.

My point is valid, you cannot be right or wrong with religion (such as proving or disproving) since it is a matter of what you believe.

Then quit bitching about people who believe differently than you. You can have a problem with people discussing their religious beliefs or you can not, but it's hypocritical to only have a problem with people discussing beliefs that you don't share.

[Muramasa89]

Then quit bitching about people who believe differently than you. You can have a problem with people discussing their religious beliefs or you can not, but it's hypocritical to only have a problem with people discussing beliefs that you don't share.

Sorry, but you was the one who started bitching about my opinion. If you can't handle someone stating an opinion then it's best you shut your mouth. I'm not bitching at people with different views, as I said it is just when they fling their crap at you and expect you to eat it up. I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your rubbish. An opinion is an opinion, which isn't going to change with me either. I didn't come for an argument.

[Josh_R]

Sorry, but you was the one who started bitching about my opinion. If you can't handle someone stating an opinion then it's best you shut your mouth. I'm not bitching at people with different views, as I said it is just when they fling their crap at you and expect you to eat it up. I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your rubbish. An opinion is an opinion, which isn't going to change with me either. I didn't come for an argument.

First off I just wanted to say that Sasquatch I love reading your arguments, and I mean that seriously with zero sarcasm. Second Muramasa dude I read through some of your post and some are just completely ignorant. I am an atheist as well but I do not blurt ingnorant shit all the time...Your arguments in the defense of atheism is f*cking stupid and piss me off to no ends you embarass all your fellow atheist..Atheist are tolerant of other religions will at least hear out a jehovah's witness or someone who goes out of there way to come to your home....I wanted to end this with one statement and that is you will not beat Sasquatch in an argument so give and go lay in a hole somewhere..

[GypsyElder]

Sorry, but you was the one who started bitching about my opinion. If you can't handle someone stating an opinion then it's best you shut your mouth. I'm not bitching at people with different views, as I said it is just when they fling their crap at you and expect you to eat it up. I'm not going to bother replying to the rest of your rubbish. An opinion is an opinion, which isn't going to change with me either. I didn't come for an argument.

Dude, if you're not going to back up what you say, and rather tell people to shut their mouths every time someone quotes you, then don't post in ID. I know why people come and express their religious views that's fine, I have no problem with people wanting to save me. I don't think it makes a big difference either, but that doesn't mean I don't hear them out from time to time. It may not change my views,I've said this, but it doesn't mean I despise them for believing in something different.

So what, you don't like it when non atheist, try and prove there is a god, but it's okay for you to prove that their isn't?

Everyone thinks they're right, you probably think you're right, so don't say do don't like when people try to prove what they believe in.

I could say I don't like when atheist are ignorant and think everyone else are idiots for beliveing in something. But oh wait, I've actually listened to an atheist views before. I found it interesting, didn't change my mind, but I could understand why they think that way.

My friend is atheist, and I don't "hate" the fact that he believes that their is no god nor does he think I'm an idiot believing there is.

Maybe it's just cretin people that think that way... yeah that must be it.

I find it sad that people can willingly force a belief upon people (I.E. Jahova Witnesses), and to be fair I believe you deserve all the hatred and insults you get by doing so. I also hate it when people actually try to prove Gods existance. How can you prove someone's faith? You cannot. Stop wasting your time, thinking you're right.

[ziroth]

Gypsy Elder---->wow i agree with every little thing you said and that just brightened my day. I think people have the right to say whta they want when they want and if someone wants to be a ignorant little punk and try to get there way or the highway than they should be shut up.[ Not that I'm suggesting anything]I believe there is a good and he loves us all and we are all his children. I mean i sometimes want to question it but i would never. I love god.

[Meier Link]

Ok I am just going to step back in here again and say, do not feed the trolls. I have taken care of this situation last night and Murasama privliges to ID have been removed for the time being. Any further derailment will be met with a warning.

Now with that said, get this topic back on track.

[ziroth]

sorry mister mod........
Well i have a question for everyone who takes a gander at this thread. What do you think of the old weird poeple that made the calender that says everyone will die on the year 2012? What do you think of there religion?What was there religion? What does it me to be a Pagan, mainly following in the rites of Wicca?

[Alpha]

Why do people equate paganism with Wicca? Paganism, broadly defined, is anything that you don't believe. Historically, and slightly more narrowly defined, is anything pre-Christian, which would include Aztec 'religion' (note that the entire concept of religion was constructed by Christians; before then 'religions' were systems that structured all of society, the world, and day-to-day life).

And I believe there is a thread about that 2012 doomsday thing somewhere. Go write about that there.

[marf]

i think who ever is worring about the world ending in 2012 is wasting there time

i dont believe that is going to happen

the aztec calender doesnt say anything about the world ending in 2012. the calender just ends in 2012 DEEEER

even if the world does end in 2012 what are you gonna do about it

just live life while you have it

[Joe]

Well i have a question for everyone who takes a gander at this thread. What do you think of the old weird poeple that made the calender that says everyone will die on the year 2012?

Ummmm, what? Mayans have not said that we're all going to die in 2012. In fact there was recently an article that made its way through the net that stated that Mayans were getting rather Pissed that white people were spreading horsehockey doomsday stories about it. Naturally, I'm inclined to believe them.

What do you think of there religion?
TheIR religion is what they believe. Why does it matter what we think of it? Are you presuming that it's your place to pass judgement?

What was there religion?
If I remember correctly the mayans practiced paganistic (re: non-christian, as there was no christianity in that area at the time) polytheism, with elements of animism added. Animism is the concept that every animal has a spirit, I think, and that said spirits should be respected.


What does it me to be a Pagan, mainly following in the rites of Wicca?

Paganism != Wicca. It means that you aren't christian, nor muslim, jewish, buddhist, hindu, nor any other conventional religion. Most people seem to equate paganism with evil, since they don't worship the same God as most people (Re: chistians/jews/muslims). In fact Pagans have a rather large assortment of gods to choose from, depending on what they believe (there are Vast differences in beliefs from one pagan to another, you might want to read up on it)

Again, are you saying that we should judge pagans based on their highly personalized belief system? I'm not sure what point you were getting at with your post.

[ziroth]

I wasn't passing judgement I was just asking a simple question, and wondering about your opinions. I'm sorry.
It's a bit freaky tough how it just ends[ the calender].

How does one become a full fledged jew?

[Josh_R]

Ziroth I'm not quiet sure what you mean by full fledged jew, do you mean a jew that is strong in their beliefs or what...Cause full fledged jew to me just does not make sense...

[Joe]

Conversion to Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might want to read this. That article discusses how to Officially convert to Judaism. However it's not necessary to formally convert in order to consider yourself a Jew. Just like it's not necessary to go to organized churches every sunday in order to be a Christian.

[Victoria]

And just like you don't have to sacrifice goats and small children and other miscellaneous things just to call yourself Nordic.

To me, religion is something meant for entertainment/something to believe in so that death isn't so boring. So I chose Norse mythology because it's the most interesting. ^_^

[Alpha]

Hey Sheena, I wasn't sure how serious you were being there (after all, I didn't realise people still practiced Norse mythology (is there a better term?) anymore), but I have a question.

How does one just 'choose' a religion? Is religion just a commodity on a supermarket shelf, where we pick the one that is the cheapest and most satisfying (least effort, greatest perceived spiritual benefits)?

I don't think we are able to rationally pick a religion. It's not a shop, it's an ultimate statement of how the universe is ordered, and can't be taken lightly (not saying you did this Sheena). Because no-one can actually prove their religion, how can we actually choose the 'best' one? Is it a case of finding the most 'believable'? The most compatible (with your other opinions), or the most humanistic? Is it just a matter of birth, and if anybody converts, it's more irrational than rational?

That last sentence is how I perceive it at least.

[Victoria]

Yes, I was serious. At least for me I can choose the one that best suits me, because I don't take it seriously.
If you take it seriously, it's impossible to just "pick and choose".