Dear Fat People...

[Michael Swayne]

Facebook is blowing up about it. Good Morning America, and probably every other news outlet, are talking about it. Your best friend's brother's cousin who knows a guy that knows a guy that goes to a hairdresser is talking about it. It's the Nicole Arbour YouTube video titled "Dear Fat People". Tempers are flaring, trolls are flaming, and some people are just standing there with their jaws on the floor. So, I make my first thread in forever to ask what you all think of it. But first, you should watch the video.



Now, with the Working Out thread being one of the most popular threads of the year here, and the community generally being nice and considerate, I expect that there won't be too dangerous of a debate here. So, if the admins feel that maybe this could be in the Intellectual Discussion section, please move it there.

My feelings on the video is that although it may a bit on the harsh side, Nicole is not entirely wrong. Sure, she could have toned it down, but that probably would not have garnered the same amount of attention as it had. I mean, YouTube closed the channel for a time, but later reopened it. That doesn't happen very often. And as she is a comedian, or at least Facebook called her a comedian (I can't be bothered to check), it would go against the general rule that comedians are allowed to get away with saying offensive things.

On the GMA segment today about the topic, Robin Roberts agreed with one responder (some overweight reality TV star) that there are many reasons why people are obese. I'm paraphrasing that, because I can't be bothered to rewind the clip on the DVR. But when she said it, I was sitting there thinking that there are equally as many ways to not be obese. After all, doctors don't just throw their hands up in the air and say, "I'm sorry, but there is nothing I can do to help you stop gaining weight."

It seems to me that this video was made to gain attention and new subscribers and views. It's quite clear that there has been an impact, considering this is her first video with more than one million views out of 141 videos. The rest range from less than 1,000 to more than 300,000 views. If it is for the publicity, then more power to her, and she gained worldwide attention. If not, then it is still good because she reopened a discussion that seems to have stagnated in the last few years.

So, I ask again, what are your thoughts on the video? What are you thoughts are "fat-shaming"? What are your thoughts on anything about this topic?

[Pete]

I really don't see anything wrong with what Nicole said. She started out by saying that she's not talking about people who have real genetic issues that aren't caused by cheeseburgers and laziness. Granted, I feel like she took a lot of fat shaming memes from /b, and just described them. But she's still not wrong. She's also kind of cute, and that might affect my opinion.

If people are happy in their bodies, good for them. Keep doing you. If you're not happy, or if you just want to be healthier so your heart doesn't explode at 45, then change your lifestyle.

As in the video, Arbour also specified she's pointing out obese people, not people with a little chub. However, I still think that with proper diet and exercise, people can lose weight, no matter what size they are. It's really a matter of willpower and going for a salad instead of the whopper.


I actually watched one of the response videos, and it was some girl crying about how it's so mean and once she used the word priveledge, I shut it off. She also has a video called hate the donut, not the fatty. That really bothered me. It's essentially blaming guns for violence, not assholes. Maybe she'd lose weight and not bitch and cry about "thin priveledge" if she'd exercise instead of making videos about videos.

Long story short, I don't see anything wrong with the video. Some people would rather just have the world change its standards than change for themselves.

[OceanEyes28]

Oh blaaahhh this is in my forum which means I might have to watch this video I've been completely uninterested in watching lmao.

Like I get finding laziness unappealing, but I don't really get going on a YouTube rant about it or assuming you know enough about millions of people to generalize. I haven't watched it yet.... I really don't want to.

[01habbo]

What gets me mad is the particular response of "I'm obese because I have hyperthyroidism." Because first of all if you have that issue you need to go to the freaking doctor and get that sorted so that the doctor can give you the medication. And when you get the medication being obese shouldn't be an issue any more, because your levels should be at that of a normal person. I see this excuse all the time and it gets me mad, I have literally no thyroid at all and I'm not obese, there is no reason to become obese if you have been given the right levels of medication, which takes only a few months to work out. Sorry little rant there.

The only time I became over weight was when my dad died, and it took a lot of hard work to get to a normal weight. I don't really see much of a problem with this video either than perhaps her delivery was a little too harsh.

[Heartless Angel]

I'm clinically obese myself, and I absolutely support this chick.

There's nothing wrong with being a fat **** like I am, but there is absolutely something wrong with being in denial about it. I'm fat. I know I'm fat. I know WHY I'm fat. I know how NOT to be fat. I know what being fat is doing to my body. If you can't honestly say all of these things, you should not be comfortable with your body. Skeletons don't grow when you eat Twinkies, you're not big boned, you're just a fat ****. Genetics can prevent you from easily losing weight, and it can make it easier to put it on, but I promise you, if you are spending more energy than you are consuming, it is physically impossible for you to be gaining fat. Bad genetics don't come out of the box of Twinkies you had for breakfast. If you have made the choice to be, or remain fat when you have all of the above information, you are not disabled. You're a ****ing adult who can, and must be held accountable for your own poor decision making skills. Actual handicapped people get special parking spots and moved to the front of lines because they are physically incapable of doing what you have willfully given up. You don't deserve special treatment for willfully ****ing yourself. **** this politically correct fat acceptance bullshit, and I look forward to laughing at the heart attacks of every stupid **** hashtagging it.

[Rowan]

but I promise you, if you are spending more energy than you are consuming, it is physically impossible for you to be gaining fat. Bad genetics don't come out of the box of Twinkies you had for breakfast.

This.


Aside from her being completly annoying and obnoxious, she does have a point. Although from personal experience, the way she comes across makes it hard for people to like her and thus, take her seriously. She is not funny, her points are few are far between her shitty jokes and editing, and theres nothing funny about people who are unhappy about themselves (and im telling you if a fat person had a choice to become athletic with no effort required, they would).

@Pete "If people are happy in their bodies, good for them. Keep doing you."
If their bodies are causing health problems that are keeping them in hospital or at doctors in Australia, its my tax dollars that are funding their health care (and disability welfare, jesus christ) for their self inflicted obesity. I reiterate; I bet noone who is obese is happy with themselves in the sense that if they could choose to become athletic with no effort, they would certainly opt too.

So do I think 'fat shaming' is a thing? Certainly. You could shame someone for just about anything you consider worth shaming someone for, but is it bullying? Certainly can be. But lets talk about double standards. Fat people are protected by the same socially unbalanced principle that says its okay to tell skinny people to eat more, but its not okay to tell fat people to eat less. Why is this?

Because people dont care about what is true or false, they only care about feelings. Yuck.

While we are here, I stronly reccomend you watch this video of a great show in Australia that debates a topic with a live audience. This particular episode is highly relevant, entertaining and informative in relation to this topic.

The look on the personal trainers face when the obese women try to explain to him why they are fat, is absolutley priceless.



For those that want just a couple of highlights

[Pete]

Rowan, I don't mean the 300lb Walmart behemoths, whose blood sugar level is coca cola when I say that. I also agree that obesity is causing a lot more problems for everyone else, especially where you have to foot the bill for everyone's healthcare.

If anyone is ever on the fence about whether or not they should exercise and eat healthy, they should Google complications from diabetes. Good stuff

[Alpha]

I tried watching it but gave up, because she seemed to divide the entire video into 4-second long chunks interspersed with weird role play. Like seriously this style of video is getting really annoying now.

I'm just going to guess what she said. And my response is: maybe we should stop caring about what other people think about us.That goes both ways. Like, I don't care what you think about fat people. And if you care what people think about you, stop caring. The former is actually a lot easier. Stop criticising other people for shit that don't matter.

[Pete]

To be fair, Alpha, despite her attitude and language, her overall message was sort of out of a place for concern. She mentioned that she wants people to be healthier and to make better choices with their health and exercise decisions, if only so they can stay on the planet for a little longer.

Granted, she wan't pulling any punches and wasn't sugar coating anything, because God knows they don't need that.

ZING!

I still also have absolutely no concept of what people mean when they talk about things like thin privilege. It's just as confusing as this whole cis thing and whatever Bruce Jenner is doing.

[Clint]

I watched about half of the video, but that bitch is annoying. My two cents, who gives a shit if people have weight problems? What concern is that to anybody except for the people in that situation? If somebody is simply lazy and eats too much, and that is what's causing their weight issues, they're grown ass adults, and they can make their own choices. It isn't anybody's place to tell people how to live their lives, unless if you're an asshole. And as for people who try to make fat people feel bad about their weight issues; **** them.

[Heartless Angel]

It's definitely the concern of others when they're the ones who have to make concessions when you start claiming disability benefits for your terrible decision making. A while back, my high school had to expand more than half of its doors because we had a morbidly obese kid who had to squeeze himself through them. We wasted taxpayer money, and already limited public school resources to accommodate this idiocy. I had a class with this asshole. We had to rearrange the classroom to make room for him to beach himself. This ****er had handicap parking privileges. There wasn't one thing medically wrong with him, he just ate about 12000 calories a day.

It becomes everyone else's concern when you require them to make special accommodations for your terrible decisions.

[Clint]

You don't have to make special accomodations for anybody, though showing empathy towards others and their situations is the sign of a wise man. Complaining about things that don't actually concern you just seems kind of silly.

[Heartless Angel]

Bullshit, I don't. Being asked to move seats on a flight so some cow can have a chair for each asscheek is relatively common. Whales love to block off entire aisles in stores forcing everyone else to walk around. Handicapped ****ing parking, forcing people with ACTUAL disabilities that weren't entirely self inflicted to walk further, had our high school under construction to make room for The Blob, that was definitely an inconvenience. Don't even get me started on the ****ing smell.

If he actually had a 'situation' to empathize with, perhaps. Again, there was literally nothing medically wrong with him. He chose to eat 12000 ****ing calories a day. Regularly. Empathy and sympathy is reserved for those who are stuck in a shitty situation by chance, not by choice. Showing empathy to one who has chosen their own fate is the mark of a fool. The declining health of an entire nation definitely concerns me, especially since we're trying to socialize healthcare now.

[Rowan]

I work with kids with actual disabilities, and it is an insult to them when someone who eats themselves stupid can be considered disabled. Its selfish, stupid and frankly, disgusting.

end of story.

[Clint]

If there was nothing medically wrong with him, then your resentment towards obese people is redundant and overblown. A lot of people with cancer and heart disease got their disabilities through self-inflicted means as well, yet nobody says anything about that. A disability is any mental, physical, or developmental impairment.

You also tend to presume to know a person's medical situation based on their outward appearance, which is entirely baseless and ignorant. There are many reasons why a person can be obese, and it isn't always the result of an unhealthy diet. Autoimmune diseases, various conditions, medications, and genetics can all lead to uncontrollable obesity, and you're wrong to presume to know what a person is going through based off of some stupid ignorant stigma that you have.

[Rowan]

I dont usually disagree with you, but here we go;

If there was nothing medically wrong with him, then your resentment towards obese people is redundant and overblown. You also tend to presume to know a person's medical situation based on their outward appearance, which is entirely baseless and ignorant.

It is known that people who are overweight are prone to higher risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure (with its own implications), gallbladder issues, lung diseases, kidney and liver disease, sleep apnea, osteoarthritis, stroke and Cancer. The risk is higher the more overweight you are, which correlates with body fat percentage and caloric intake. You can be overweight and not have any of these issues, but the fact you are 400% more likely to gain any or all of these issues at anytime , I consider to be unhealthy. I really dont understand how anyone can think that even though they are likely to gain these issues if they maintain their current lifestyle, that they should be considered healthy. There was an argument saying can a person be overweight and healthy, I think to an extent yes, but when we talk about people who are obese or almost obese, they are just not. I think its safe to say someone who has no medical conditions yet, but weights 200kg is unhealthy.

A lot of people with cancer and heart disease got their disabilities through self-inflicted means as well, yet nobody says anything about that.

Yes and I really think that people should. In fact in Australia, a normal packet of cigerettes costs around $16 - $18 because of the tax added in order to adress the issues accossiated with smoking and the amount of money it costs the taxpayers for hospital beds and healthcare for smokers who have smoke related illness.

There are many reasons why a person can be obese, and it isn't always the result of an unhealthy diet. Autoimmune diseases, various conditions, medications, and genetics can all lead to uncontrollable obesity, and you're wrong to presume to know what a person is going through based off of some stupid ignorant stigma that you have.

I fundementally disagree with this. You cannot put on weight if you dont eat more than your body consumes in energy. It goes against the laws of the thermal dynamics. Its impossible. Genetics is the worst ****ing excuse and im so sick of hearing it. Its the biggest insult to someone who works so hard in the gym and with their diet to attain a great physique, only to be told "oh you must have great genetics", oh yeah, **** all the years of training and healthy eating I did, its all genetics right?

im not mad at u btw <3

[Heartless Angel]

If there was nothing medically wrong with him, then your resentment towards obese people is redundant and overblown. A lot of people with cancer and heart disease got their disabilities through self-inflicted means as well, yet nobody says anything about that. A disability is any mental, physical, or developmental impairment.

You also tend to presume to know a person's medical situation based on their outward appearance, which is entirely baseless and ignorant. There are many reasons why a person can be obese, and it isn't always the result of an unhealthy diet. Autoimmune diseases, various conditions, medications, and genetics can all lead to uncontrollable obesity, and you're wrong to presume to know what a person is going through based off of some stupid ignorant stigma that you have.

There's also no #tumorsarebeautiful or #stopthecancershaming movement. Nobody is laboring under the delusion that cancer is okay. Nobody in their right mind doubts the connection between regularly inhaling carcinogens and cancer. Nobody is okay with having cancer, people actively seek to get rid of cancer whenever possible. There's also the whole addiction and chemical dependency thing working there. You also can't go to a gym and get rid of cancer and heart disease with a little motivation and hard work.

Maybe you missed my original post, but I AM an obese person. What I resent is blatant ignorance and attempting to convince people that there's nothing wrong with it. Because there is, and demonstrably so.

[Clint]

I fundementally disagree with this. You cannot put on weight if you dont eat more than your body consumes in energy. It goes against the laws of the thermal dynamics. Its impossible. Genetics is the worst ****ing excuse and im so sick of hearing it. Its the biggest insult to someone who works so hard in the gym and with their diet to attain a great physique, only to be told "oh you must have great genetics", oh yeah, **** all the years of training and healthy eating I did, its all genetics right?

My mother is obese due to autoimmune disorders, medication that she needs for those autoimmune disorders, as well as a predisposition to a naturally slow metabolism. None of her issues were caused by obesity, but rather, obesity is a result of her issues. This is where I have a problem with the stigma against obese people. Nobody is required to disclose their medical situations, nor should any of that be anybody's business, yet people are going to continue to assume that obesity is the cause of illness instead of the result.

Fat people can be healthy as long as they have normal blood pressure, blood sugar, and cholesterol. There is no standard healthy body type. It depends entirely on the individual. Now if you're morbidly obese, you're probably not healthy, but if in a particular instance obesity is a choice, then it's honestly none of our business. We have no right how to tell people how to live your life. And I saw you brought up that your taxes are going to funding their medical expenses, which is partially true, however, it's your duty as a citizen of your country to pay your taxes. Plus they may need additional medical attention, and even though you're being forced to help them, you're still doing a good thing, so good job!

I love you, by the way.

[Pete]

I think there's a huge difference between a food addiction and a more real problem like nicotine or alcohol addiction. I'm not defending any of these scenarios, but I tend to feel far worse for the person who had half their face removed because they dipped their whole life, as opposed to the person who eats 12k calories a day and has to use the double wide scooter.

Not that I'm saying either lifestyle is good, because they're both incredibly bad for you. Obesity is just more easily reversible and while you can do a ton of damage to yourself, I don't think it's as bad as what can happen through a real addiction

[OceanEyes28]

It can be an issue of mental illness, and before we yell at them to stop eating, we should check and see if we've lost our empathy somewhere along the way.

I know someone whose mother was sexually abused by her father as a child. That trauma manifested as a will to be as undesirable as possible, and resulted in morbid obesity. Yes, she could lose the weight if she counted her calories, but there is a larger issue that is not as easily tackled.

There are totally asshole fat people. No one is denying that, and they usually end up on TLC. But those examples of lazy entitlement do not speak for a larger population of people who struggle with weight.

There is also an issue of food deserts - areas where, "instead of supermarkets and grocery stores, these communities may have no food access or are served only by fast food restaurants and convenience stores that offer few healthy, affordable food options." (Agricultural Marketing Service - Creating Access to Healthy, Affordable Food)

Yes, the lower class could live off dried beans for cheap - if they could get to a grocery store.

I agree that obesity is becoming an issue in the western nations, and almost everyone could stand more physical activity than what they get. I don't think that the solution is YouTube rants.

Sure, we want people to be healthy. But shaming and ridiculing them doesn't work, with very few exceptions. The ones who are suffering from depression/trauma will be worse off for it. The poor can't do anything about it anyway - you wanna drive them to the store, then? The ones who feel there is nothing wrong with their weight will ignore you. The ones who have already started to change their habits toward a healthier lifestyle will doubt their efforts and think "maybe I AM a piece of shit fat person" and may give up, in order to avoid more ridicule.

Most of us are doing the best we can.

[Heartless Angel]

Empathy doesn't solve problems. Putting the Twinkie box down might.

The larger issue doesn't actually need to be solved to stop slowly killing yourself. Sometimes you can't cure the disease. It's still usually a good idea to treat the symptoms when possible.

They don't speak FOR the rest, but they do speak TO them. And what they are currently telling them is that it's okay to be fat. People accepting and praising you is that absolute LAST thing you need when you have a problem with an obvious solution. What the average fat person needs is motivation to change, not help accepting the way they are.

The fact of the matter is, dieting sucks ass. Exercise sucks ass. Weight loss is awful. Meanwhile, bacon, booze, and video games are awesome. It's a hell of a lot easier to stay fat than to get thin. Nobody chooses discomfort over comfort. The only way most people are going to get motivated, is when being a fatass becomes more uncomfortable than doing something about it. In many cases, that happens AFTER you have diabetes, heart disease, and ****ed up joints, at which point, it's a bit too late. Trying to go easy on us just makes it that much harder to pick hard work and discomfort for weight loss over lazy comfort. I don't want to be told that I'm beautiful, or to be happy with my choices, I NEED to be told that I'm a disgusting slob and don't need another ****ing doughnut. Even if it isn't true, it's going to motivate me to do something about it.

Good medicine is bitter.

[Rowan]

For me, it boils down to this;
Fat acceptance is far more harmful than fat shaming. Neither ought be acceptable, but telling someone they should lose weight, that they are overweight or obese, is not fat shaming.

[Clint]

Empathy doesn't solve problems. Putting the Twinkie box down might.

Again we are presuming to know people's medical situations. What we have here is called a fallacy of a single cause. Overeating can cause obesity. So can genetics, medication, and illnesses, to name a few. Age can also cause obesity. I guess we should start age shaming, too. Be responsible. Don't get old.

They don't speak FOR the rest, but they do speak TO them. And what they are currently telling them is that it's okay to be fat. People accepting and praising you is that absolute LAST thing you need when you have a problem with an obvious solution. What the average fat person needs is motivation to change, not help accepting the way they are.

It is okay to be fat, because outward body type does not reflect on one's overall health. Health is a science. There are numbers involved. Cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar. If those are normal, it doesn't matter if you're fat or not, because you're healthy.

It's a hell of a lot easier to stay fat than to get thin.

Bullshit. I recently lost 15 pounds in three weeks, and I'm underweight as it is. I also have a problem gaining weight. I can eat all I want. It's going to take me a few years to gain that weight back. It's way easier to get thin than be fat.

You see what I did there? The human body is a subjective thing. There isn't one single cause for somebody's body type, and just because somebody has a different body type doesn't make that person unhealthy. I am the opposite of obese. I'm underweight, and if I'm not careful, I can have just as many health problems as somebody who's overweight, yet I've never seen anybody thin shaming me for that. It's a double-standard, and double-standards are bullshit.

[Rowan]

Overeating can cause obesity. So can genetics, medication, and illnesses, to name a few.

Need evidence to support that...

[Clint]

Really don't need any evidence, because obesity is something so over-studied, it should be common knowledge at this point. But in any case, boom.

Obesity Symptoms, Causes, Treatment - What causes obesity? - MedicineNet

Obesity-Cause

There you go. Argument is over. Go crazy.

[Heartless Angel]

Again we are presuming to know people's medical situations. What we have here is called a fallacy of a single cause. Overeating can cause obesity. So can genetics, medication, and illnesses, to name a few. Age can also cause obesity. I guess we should start age shaming, too. Be responsible. Don't get old.



It is okay to be fat, because outward body type does not reflect on one's overall health. Health is a science. There are numbers involved. Cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar. If those are normal, it doesn't matter if you're fat or not, because you're healthy.




Bullshit. I recently lost 15 pounds in three weeks, and I'm underweight as it is. I also have a problem gaining weight. I can eat all I want. It's going to take me a few years to gain that weight back. It's way easier to get thin than be fat.

You see what I did there? The human body is a subjective thing. There isn't one single cause for somebody's body type, and just because somebody has a different body type doesn't make that person unhealthy. I am the opposite of obese. I'm underweight, and if I'm not careful, I can have just as many health problems as somebody who's overweight, yet I've never seen anybody thin shaming me for that. It's a double-standard, and double-standards are bullshit.

Note the operative word "might". Methinks you presume too much. Interestingly, none of those other 'causes' override the laws of thermodynamics. If you don't have energy to store, you don't gain weight. Those things can certainly make it easier or harder to gain or lose weight, but they do not 'cause' it. They're only a catalyst.

It is math. There's this entire field of math you seem to be overlooking called statistics. Obesity has a very strong correlation with numerous serious health problems. And while correlation does not always indicate causation, we have the wonderful field of biology that has established a causal relationship between obesity and several of those health problems. Yes, it IS possible to be health in spite of weighing 800 lbs, but that is the exception, not the rule. Also interesting to note that you don't find out if you're healthy as an obese person until after you're obese. Your argument is a bit like surviving a round of Russian Roulette and therefore declaring the game perfectly safe. Manuel Uribe was said to be in 'perfect health' for a long time. Then he died at 48. Surviving one round doesn't mean it's perfectly okay to keep putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger.

Yes, I do see what you did there. You made an invalid analogy. Again, note the operative word "stay", this implies that it's referring to people who are already fat. Before you start calling out fallacies, you really ought to learn what words mean.

[Clint]

If you don't have energy to store, you don't gain weight.

Except if you have a genetic predisposition for obesity, such as a slow metabolism. Or if you have various conditions or autoimmune diseases, such as hypothyroidismor if you're taking certain medications, like antidepressants, or anticonvulsants, or diabetes medication. Or in my mother's case, a combination of sarcoidosis and fibromyalgia, as well as the steroid medication she needs to take in order to keep her sarcoidosis under control so that she doesn't die.

You are fundamentally wrong on every level imaginable, and your fallacious stance is absolutely delusional. Also **** you for insulting my mother, you dumb cunt. A smart man would have showed empathy.

[Heartless Angel]

You don't quite seem to understand how physics work. Genes do not create lard. Disease does not create lard. Fat does not spontaneously pop into existence.

Do you actually understand what metabolism is? It's the rate at which your body consumes energy. A more efficient body stores it better and spends it slower, meaning it takes less calories to gain weight. Your genes are not capable of injecting lard into your ass. You have to eat. If you have a slow metabolism you do not require as much food energy as other people. If your energy consumption decreases accordingly, you still won't get fat.

Hyperthyroidism release too much of a hormone that controls your metabolism you know, that thing I just explained. It produces an excess of a hormone, it does not produce fat. You still have to be eating more energy than your body spends to store fat.

Medicines can have an effect on metabolism. They can not materialize fat from nothing.

Steroids are the one thing you've brought up that might actually be a relevant criticism, as prednisone in particular can greatly increase liquid retention, increasing your size and weight without actually adding any fat. Of course prednisone is also known to increase appetite, and most people taking it have trouble with physical activity, so you've got a two pronged problem there.

Ammendment: If you don't have energy to store, you don't gain fat.

I won't indulge in the insult game, primarily because with a troll as gifted as yourself, I honestly can't tell when you're serious. I'm just going to assume you're not.

[Clint]

Continue with that fallacy of a singular cause, bro.

[Heartless Angel]

You see, that's only a fallacy when there are actually multiple causes. There aren't multiple causes of fat. Fat is literally the result of the body trying to store unused energy.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a cause and a contributing factor. Medicines, genetics, diseases, depression, etc... Can all affect how your body spends and stores energy. What is universally true however, is that fat is the result of a body storing unused energy. If you do not have unused energy, you can not have fat.



Did you actually read your own source? It all comes down to the energy consumption vs energy expenditure. There are a lot of things that influence that balance, but that balance is the only 'cause' of fat.