Dear Fat People...

[Clint]

Dude, it's still fallacy of a single cause. It says right at the bottom, "Ultimately, body weight is the result of genetics, metabolism, environment, behavior, and culture." Do you ever wonder why some people are alive, because I'm wondering that right now.

I have to take a break. I can feel my IQ dropping because of you. Goddamn it.

[Heartless Angel]

And then goes on to explain how all of those relate to the energy consumption/expenditure problem. They're all different ways to reach the same actual cause.

Trust me, you'll be fine. IQ doesn't go into the negatives.

[Michael Swayne]

The talk shows are still going crazy about the video. Today's episode of The View, the ladies were slamming the video despite also saying that they didn't watch the whole thing. That seem to be the case with a lot of people. They're not watching the whole video. They see the title, watch the first minute, and then go straight to the comment section or their webcams and bad mouth the video.

Nicole posted another video a few days after "Dear Fat People" basically saying that she doesn't care what people think.



She says that her videos are satire. And she is holding this stance, and not making any apologies. In fact, she's even lost a movie gig she had because of Dear Fat People.

Anyway, just to update the whole situation and add more to the conversation for you all to chew on. Keep up the great conversation, everyone!

[Pete]

Of course the women on the view will slam that video. They'd be doing wrong by their core viewers if they didn't get all up in flabby arms

[Clint]

And then goes on to explain how all of those relate to the energy consumption/expenditure problem. They're all different ways to reach the same actual cause.

You are wrong.

The argument that fat people eat too much and are lazy is in itself a lazy argument, because there are plenty of people eating the right amount, with the proper amount of activity, who are hefty, and still have trouble losing weight. You're lumping those people into the category of "lazy fat asses" based off of an assumption. If you look at a person's outward appearance and assume his or her activity level and caloric intake, without taking any other factors into consideration, you have a problem on your hands. Here's where we get into genetics.

The body needs carbohydrates to maintain a healthy diet, and if you're eating starches, grains, and sugars, the glucose level in your blood will go up. At this point, the pancreas would produce insulin to prevent glucose levels from getting too high. Insulin tells the body to take up the glucose and use it for fuel. It also tells fat cells to store glucose as fat for later use. As long as insulin remains high, meaning if your diet tends to consist of starches, grains, and sugars, fat cells retain fat, and what's being burnt off while you're exercising is not fat at all, but carbohydrates.

The situation was made increasingly worse due to poor advice from many nutritionists who had your ideals in mind. They stated that obesity was caused by caloric intake or a sedentary lifestyle, and so would recommend low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets in order to promote a decrease in caloric intake, the theory behind this being that carbohydrates wouldn't cause obesity.

Now if all of this is going on inside of the body, it explains some of the negative health aspects of being obese, specifically type 2 diabetes and heart disease, which can result from insulin resistance, which can be an adverse affect from diets high in (not calories, but) carbohydrates.

That's a second cause of obesity. Another cause is certain types of medication, which can slow your body's ability to burn calories, or cause you to hold onto extra fluid or fat. There are also medications that cause the body to release more insulin, or make you more sensitive to insulin, which as I explained above, can cause weight gain.

That's two more factors that can lead to obesity to add to your single cause. Try to refute this shit. Go ahead, make my day.

[Heartless Angel]

You are wrong.

The argument that fat people eat too much and are lazy is in itself a lazy argument, because there are plenty of people eating the right amount, with the proper amount of activity, who are hefty, and still have trouble losing weight. You're lumping those people into the category of "lazy fat asses" based off of an assumption. If you look at a person's outward appearance and assume his or her activity level and caloric intake, without taking any other factors into consideration, you have a problem on your hands. Here's where we get into genetics.

The body needs carbohydrates to maintain a healthy diet, and if you're eating starches, grains, and sugars, the glucose level in your blood will go up. At this point, the pancreas would produce insulin to prevent glucose levels from getting too high. Insulin tells the body to take up the glucose and use it for fuel. It also tells fat cells to store glucose as fat for later use. As long as insulin remains high, meaning if your diet tends to consist of starches, grains, and sugars, fat cells retain fat, and what's being burnt off while you're exercising is not fat at all, but carbohydrates.

The situation was made increasingly worse due to poor advice from many nutritionists who had your ideals in mind. They stated that obesity was caused by caloric intake or a sedentary lifestyle, and so would recommend low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets in order to promote a decrease in caloric intake, the theory behind this being that carbohydrates wouldn't cause obesity.

Now if all of this is going on inside of the body, it explains some of the negative health aspects of being obese, specifically type 2 diabetes and heart disease, which can result from insulin resistance, which can be an adverse affect from diets high in (not calories, but) carbohydrates.

That's a second cause of obesity. Another cause is certain types of medication, which can slow your body's ability to burn calories, or cause you to hold onto extra fluid or fat. There are also medications that cause the body to release more insulin, or make you more sensitive to insulin, which as I explained above, can cause weight gain.

That's two more factors that can lead to obesity to add to your single cause. Try to refute this shit. Go ahead, make my day.

Who the **** have you been arguing with? How to you get "they're lazy and overeating" out of "fat requires unused energy to store"?

Yes. Carbohydrates are also energy. When you're using carbs and have caloric energy left you get fat. That's unused energy. That's exactly my ****ing argument. I don't presume anyone's activity level or caloric intake as an actual number. I can, however; conclude with absolute certainty that their activity level is insufficient to burn the energy they have consumed. Calories are only one type of energy. It doesn't matter whether you eat 4000 calories and no carbs, or 500 calories and enough carbs that your body never uses them, either way you have unspent energy and it gets stored as fat.

Yes, certain medicines can reduce your metabolic rate. Which means your energy consumption goes down. If you're using less than a normal amount of energy and consuming a normal amount of energy, what do you have? Unused ****ing energy.

If you're releasing a lot of insulin and not using caloric energy but still consuming calories, what do you have? Unused ****ing energy.

Fluid retention is not fat. It increases your size, but it is not fat. I already corrected that error when you bright up a disease I assumed was being treated with prednisone, or something similar.

What's there to refute, Clint? You've completely missed the ****ing point. Again the root of the problem is that you don't know what words mean. "unused energy" does not mean "lazy and overeating". You can have an energy excess if you're only eating 100 calories a day if your body isn't using them. How you end up with excess energy is irrelevant as excess energy is still the only way to gain fat. That is literally what fat is.

[Clint]

Your argument was that people are fat due to excess energy not being burned off, which would obviously refer to overeating and a sedentary lifestyle. Sometimes when the body produces glucose, people can take in the proper amount of calories, and exercise to burn that energy off, but they're not burning off fat, they're burning off carbohydrates. It's a genetic hormone deficiency that causes obesity.

Fluid retention causes body weight and size to increase, meaning that it causes obesity.

Your argument was an ignorant singular cause which lumped an entire group of people together. By stating energy expenditure as the root of the problem, you stated overeating and sedentary lifestyle, which isn't the case. People can be eating right and exercising daily yet still holding onto their weight. It has nothing to do with energy expenditure.

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. You just suck at writing to get your point across, and you're an asshole about it. I'm done with you.

[Heartless Angel]

Irrelevant. Whether your body uses a normal amount of energy or not, fat only occurs when there is excess energy. It isn't always possible to sustain your nutritional requirements while still consuming less energy than you use, but the fact of the matter is, if you are gaining body fat, you are consuming more energy than you can spend. Whether that means eating 12000 calories in a day, or only the standard 2000 is not relevant to the claim I made. You've been arguing with a strawman.

Obesity yes, but not fat. I already corrected my claim when you brought that up. Thank you.

[Clint]

Therefore the analogy with the Twinky box was just you being a dick, conveying the opposite message of what you actually meant. That was the entire problem I had with anything that you said, so this issue is solved.

[che]

This looks like a chick who watched way too much Jenna Marbles, she even does the little voices. It's edited almost exactly the same way. Except this girl may have found a way more successful recipe to youtube giving her partnership and ad revenue for her FOUR MILLION VIEWS thanks to everyone (now including me god dammit). And all she had to do is say a few little things and you're all going nuts. Rofl. Get rekt

[OceanEyes28]

What I'm hearing (reading? lol whateverrr) you say is "because I am fat, I can generalize about fat people."

It also sounds like, for you, motivation in the form of "get the **** off the couch" is effective and preferred. That's fine, man. For me, it's a color coded spreadsheet. But not everyone responds the same way.

There are a couple of people I am trying to get active, and telling them "you are a nasty slob" would alienate them from me, and it would be mean. Instead, we brainstorm about goals. For instance, "wouldn't it be neat if we could do an overnight hike together?" or "yes, you are still strong enough to do that, but if you lifted, it would be even easier."

That's all anecdotal, but so is most of the stuff in this thread so idk.

There was a population study done last year by the University College London, and its results were that "fat shaming" doesn't work, and may cause people to comfort eat and avoid physical activity because they fear ridicule. 'Fat shaming' does not help people lose weight, study finds | Society | The Guardian

I agree that for those who can, working to take some weight off their joints, etc is a good idea. We should be looking to treat the causes of obesity - food deserts/poverty, poor nutrition/nutrition education, the prevalence of sugar in the western diet, lack of physical education, mental illness, hormone imbalances, etc etc etc - and that can be done without telling people how gross we think they are. Yes, people make excuses. It is hard, you're right.

There can be more done to support healthier lifestyles, to make it easier to become more active and nourished. Before prepackaged convenience food became a thing, it was pretty rare to see an obese person. Nowadays, it's hard to find those who don't rely on prepackaged food. Taking in calorie dense food that leaves you undernourished and hungry is an issue, and a lot of people don't know that they're doing anything wrong.

I'm not saying that people aren't responsible for their own bodies, but I am saying that we can do better than meanness.

[Heartless Angel]

No Clint, the twinky thing was actually ex[pressing my displeasure with a specific subset of fat people. those who are fat due to horrible decision making, The entire problem you had was failure to distinguish one statement about my dislike of a group of people from another about how the laws of physics still apply to fat people. Your poor reading comprehension is not my error.

I don't generalize about fat people. There is only one specific subset of fat people I actually take issue with, that being the ones who are fat by choice, and in denial about it.

That was specifically expressing my own preference, yes, and I could have been more clear about that. Specifically, I am against fat acceptance, rather than for fat shaming.

[Clint]

It doesn't matter what bullshit you try to spew, buddy. Your argument was a singular ****ing cause for obesity, but there are many factors that influence it. You're oversimplifying a situation involving more factors than energy expenditure.

And your Twinky comment was to garner a nevative reaction from people, because you're a transparent douche bag.

[Heartless Angel]

And yet after going into your 'many factors' all of them are just influences on that single cause. Again, it's only a fallacy when it's wrong. Each and every one of those factors is directly related to engery consumption and expenditure.

Yes, please continue telling me what I'm saying. You've done a fantastic job of it so far, aside from not understanding a word of it. Get over yourself.

[Clint]

Many factors meaning "more than one," and are not influences of a single cause. Your casual reductionism is ridiculous.

[Heartless Angel]

Remember that part where I linked every single factor that affects fat you mentioned to the balance between energy consumption and expenditure?

[01habbo]

I agree with Clint on that it doesn't really matter what size you are along as you are healthy, I had a room mate at Uni a long time ago, carried a bit of weight on her, but always ate healthily, cooked with fresh food, exercised regularly. There is a problem in this world where someone sees an overweight person and immediately thinks "unhealthy," or "lazy". Without taking into to account of all the other possibilities.

There is no harm in wanting to better your society around you and help people lead healthier lives, if they want the help, however there is something wrong with forcing someone to accept your help, because you deem them unhealthy at just a glance. It doesn't work ultimately if people want to change it has to come from them.

[Rowan]

You guys (not HA) are using personal feelings/appeal to emotion to fuel your arguments against the cause for weight gain and its very obvious and sorry to say, irrelevant (hate to be that guy when it comes to you Clint). Did anyone actually watch the video in the link I posted? I know its 50 minutes, but if y'all gonna waste this much time and effort arguing, watch that first and get the facts from the professionals in their fields.

=S

[Clint]

I agree with what you're saying, Rowan. Obesity is caused by a combination of food energy intake and/or a lack of physical activity, in most cases. It's also caused by things like genetics, psychiatric illnesses, and various medical reasons, a lot of which are uncontrollable, and thus dictate obesity as a legitimate disease or disability in those instances.

There are people who medically cannot lose weight, and there are also those who are healthy despite their weight, who are eating a proper diet, burning off the proper amount of energy through regular physical activity, yet retaining fat. There is no single cause for obesity. If there was, it would be pretty easy for anybody to lose weight, but it's not. Some people burn off fat, some people store fat, some people are born with genetic conditions where several genes on various chromosomes are deleted or unexpressed, fueling conditions which retain fat. All body types are different, and everything is dependent on the individual. It's also nobody's business in the first place. Obesity is a medical condition, and everybody has both a right to medical privacy, and a right to not be judged by dickheads.

Not that I'm calling you a dickhead, Rowan. That's in reference to the other guy.

[che]

I was actually kind of enjoying the back and forth in this thread. It's been 3 days, and no retort. I'm waiting 9 months until more Mr. Robot episodes. I have a lot of time to spare. Let's get this back on track.

[Pete]

Wait, I got this.

Some people are fat because they consume too many calories and don't burn enough.

Some people are fat because they're on meds or have issues that screw with their metabolism.

Edit- I also forgot about the third group which blames a complete disregard for health, diet and exercise on muh genetics



Done in one.

[Howling Wind]

It's definitely the concern of others when they're the ones who have to make concessions when you start claiming disability benefits for your terrible decision making. A while back, my high school had to expand more than half of its doors because we had a morbidly obese kid who had to squeeze himself through them. We wasted taxpayer money, and already limited public school resources to accommodate this idiocy. I had a class with this asshole. We had to rearrange the classroom to make room for him to beach himself. This ****er had handicap parking privileges. There wasn't one thing medically wrong with him, he just ate about 12000 calories a day.

It becomes everyone else's concern when you require them to make special accommodations for your terrible decisions.

THIS! Like what the ****? seriously! The chick in the video is god awful annoying. Seriously. Show me a woman comedian thats actually funny. Vagina jokes aren't funny. they aren't funny to women and I have never seen a guy laugh at them. What's funny is making fun of yourself.. but oh wait.. women can't do that >>

BUT. I'm so tired of the people that pig out at burger king and then want equality or special privileges or want people to feel sorry for them because they are pigs. Am I being to rude? Sorry, deal with it! I am so TIRED of politically correct. Its stupid, its a fancy word to take away your right to say whats on your mind. I swear, you can't say ANYTHING today without someone getting butthurt or pulling a card of one type or another.

I realize I probably kinda got off topic here but... Geez. Basically, stop crying because you eat tons of carbs and sugar. I have trouble gaining weight... I swear! My doctor keeps telling me to eat more, I do, and I'm still under weight!

Am I going to cry about it? No!

[nix]

Fuck da police

[OceanEyes28]

You don't have to shit-talk other women for us to like you. We already like you.

[Rowan]

Fuck da police

Straight outta Ham Sandwhiches.

[Robbo]

Straight outta Ham Sandwhiches.

Crazy Mozzarella named Rye Bread

[noxious.sunshine]

Fuck da police

I hope this got a warning lol



Anywho, homegirl ain't wrong, but she does seem to be an attention whore seeking attention. I defo agree with Che's take on her. She's very Jenna Marbles (who I don't really watch/care for).

Let the fat people be fat if they want to. Ain't no need to bash or hate or continue shoving facts about how their weight is unhealthy in their faces. They're fat, but not completely stupid (yeah I know). Nothing any of us say or do to someone about this is going to make them want to change. They have to want it for themselves. And if they don't want it, then leave 'em alone.

It isn't any of our places to do stuff like this to people. Yeah it's unhealthy, but it's still not our business. Unless it's like family or something. And even then, it still can be a touchy subject.

[Rowan]

Considering the epidemic of obesity in america and indeed Australia and other parts of the world, should a fast-food 'fat' tax be implemented to not only encourage people to make healthier options, but also accumulate tax funding for more medical/hospitals? (which would be a significant amount considering the popularity of fast foods)

I for one think its a great idea since a tax could mean $1 extra from every meal or item, which doesnt hurt the individuals pocket much, but creates a substancial long term gain for an industry thats in need of reform. Lets face it, you Americans have a terrible health care system. This money could go a long way towards making sure everyone is looked after and bring an end to the obesity culture.

[Clint]

All taxes are bullshit, so no, no fast-food tax should be implemented. The government shouldn't be involved in people's lives. Their job is to regulate laws, not to interfere in personal choices.

People who typically eat fast food regularly are those in poverty who can't afford anything better, so punishing them by forcing them to pay tax for food that they probably already struggle to afford just doesn't seem right. Not to mention that most places have a sales tax. So that would be an additional tax on top of an already bullshit tax.

[Rowan]

All taxes are bullshit, so no, no fast-food tax should be implemented. The government shouldn't be involved in people's lives. Their job is to regulate laws, not to interfere in personal choices.

People who typically eat fast food regularly are those in poverty who can't afford anything better, so punishing them by forcing them to pay tax for food that they probably already struggle to afford just doesn't seem right. Not to mention that most places have a sales tax. So that would be an additional tax on top of an already bullshit tax.

For someone that believes obesity isn't caused by the consumption of fatty fast foods, I dont understand why you'd be against this...

Our entire economy relies on the money from taxes in order to have a functional society. Im not a fan of paying money to the dirty government, but at the end of the day, it would hardly make a dint in anyones pockets unless they are eating it all the time (which is why the tax should be implemented).

Also, I've seen people live off of $20 per week and it wasnt purchasing big mac meals for $10.95.