Religions - Your Opinion

[Chez Daja]

The last two posts really didn't need posting. If you're going to post, at least make it relevent to the actual conversation instead of commentary about things that you could just PM or VM to people. And, more directed to the last post: please try to make your posts a little longer. The book is a good read, but if you're not going to comment more about it and include your personal opinion on it, then it's really not worth posting about. I realise there have been other very short posts in this topic, but if my father hadn't fallen ill and if people had used the report button a little more, it could've been editted and therefore better dealt with.

No official warnings to be issued in this post, but a reminder to stay on the actual topic; your opinion.

To all: No replies to be made to this post unless you'd like to face editting or a possible warning. If you want to comment to me, then PM or VM me directly. Thanks and have a great night.

[Grahf]

The crusaders were not Christians. The Catholics that revised the Gospel with contradictions and greedy marketing are not Catholics. What men do in the name of God has no barring on God himself. So in reality we must not condemn the actions of religion (except Islam, honestly, as it does say to kill anyone who doesn't believe the way they do), and condemn the actions of men who do not represent the real teachings of their religion.

For the most part, Masamune, I agree with you. Christianity at its core is not what the Catholic Church has everyone believing it is today. Let's think about this; what do Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny really have to do with Jesus Christ? Honestly? That being said, I believe this particular religion has been used as somewhat of a power tool in the past, to say the least (i.e. Constantine, the Spanish Inquisition, Hitler, etc.). That is not to say that at its core, Christianity isn't an admirable religion to believe in. I personally believe it's gone too far with its Catholicism, Presbyterianism, Lutheranism, and however many other denominations there are.

However, there is wide debate as to whether or not Muslims believe they have the right to "kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do." The word "Islam" means "submission to the will of God," from what I've read. Anyway, many Muslims believe very similarly to the way Christians do when it comes to taking another human's life; the only difference being that they condone death only in the most grievous of situations, mostly relating to that of self defense or the preservation of justice. That is a big difference though, to forbidding the taking of another human's life all together.

As for myself, I'm agnostic. Allow me to sum that up for you, roughly, by quoting a fellow member.

Originally posted by Richard M. Nixon
While I don't believe in a God, I don't deny the possibility of his or her existence.

[IceColdPillow]

Well religion, I believe that religion is the basis for independence. While I'm not on being one of those christian snobs who preach their sole ownership of what is right [or those Athiests who nag how religion ruins the world], I am saying that religion is actually a prime example of how far civilizations have come. A world without religion and faith and choice, is a dull, monotonous and downright scary world. BUT,there is a thin line that religion and faith has crossed throughout history, forcing those to believe their god, it must be a choice. A mans religion should be between a man and his god [or lack therof], not based on what some church or group demands you too.

On the other hand,take away the choice of religion in general outright,by having no faith at all, you risk losing individualism and choice.,For example, take in 1984 by George Orwell, a book about a totalitarian regime, there is no religion or really independence. Also, look at really any futuritic based play, movie , or book, where religion is gone, everything is the same and science dominates while the faith is gone.
Self admittedly, I'm very conflicted between faith and no-faith, but it is that idea that i can choose whatever i want is why I believe that religion should be an optional part of our lives.

Now, science vs religion. This has been a battle for as long as man could think. Religion[lets use christianity as an example since this pertains to them mostly] believes that God made everything, everything was made for a reason, the universe, the air you breath. Science on the other hand, denies the existence of a god by showing proof that things happen in nature, without a godly force. But, the true conflict comes down to our origin, the beginning of our universe. Where science cannot explain any further, does religion take off and proclaim that God made the universe, hmmm? Thats where I believe both co-exist maybe? Basically, in my opinion, religion and science say the same thing, just in different languages. Both are dependent upon one another to answer and disprove what the other says, it will be a never ending battle.

Whoa, i rambled haha sorry if something dosen't make sense in that haha

[OnOneRyder]

I personally don't think that science needs religion, nor does religion need science. I feel they're totally independent of one another. Religion tries to explain that which science has not yet been able to explain, or that which conflicts the supposed occurrences in the bible. Science however, fundamentally is completely unbiased. Yes there are occasions where you have extremely biased scientists making wild theories based on their personal opinions, but I think for the most part they're trying to do the same thing. Work out all the questions using evidence provided for us by time and the past, working it out for the purpose of advancement. Religion is stuck on the past, and while I don't think it's entirely catastrophic to a society I feel that it's unnecessary due to problems it causes. It clouds minds, causes selfish actions and hinders the advancement of our species.

[_Cloud_]

i find it hard to believe in something that i cant see most of my day i have a person coming up to me telling me that the world will be saved and that the lord will come and save us from this and i know someone who gave their whole life to this and they never been the same since and that what were they told to be like this giving up everything for something we know nothing about

the thing is with me is that if this is all true in someway then why hasnt something been done yet why hasnt this being come down and saved us in this time when help is need people and getting killed people and losing homes families people fighting getting hurt and all these viruses and sickness in the world

[RagnaToad]

i find it hard to believe in something that i cant see most of my day i have a person coming up to me telling me that the world will be saved and that the lord will come and save us from this and i know someone who gave their whole life to this and they never been the same since and that what were they told to be like this giving up everything for something we know nothing about

the thing is with me is that if this is all true in someway then why hasnt something been done yet why hasnt this being come down and saved us in this time when help is need people and getting killed people and losing homes families people fighting getting hurt and all these viruses and sickness in the world

Woh. You actually managed to post a ten line post with only 2 dots... Oh no, you didn't use ANY punctuation...

My thought on religions is simple:

If someone wants to believe in a transcendental being/world and gets strength from his belief, I can only encourage that.

What I despise about some religions is that they tend to have a monopoly on the truth. They're not open to people who differ from them, even though it is not necessarily their choice.

I find it truly sad that in big religions, there's always a small group of extremists who give their religion, and any religion in general really, a bad name. Somehow that most often happens to religions based on an ancient script. But it's a shame that those terrorists give themselves the same name as (for example) regular muslims cary. It does no honour to the muslim faith and just gives the stupid ones amongst us (including politicians) more reason to create fear and paranoia. Really a shame.

Truth: Religion can do many good things for a person or group
Sad truth: It tends to lead to aggressive conflicts due to minor differences.

Christians are Jews.
Christians are muslims.
And so on...
Why fight?

Nothing more to it.

[Infernaeus]

I am a Roman Catholic (sort of) and a fan of the works of Soren Kierkegaard and Carl Jung, so take that for what you will.

I fully concede that religion, and mine in particular, seems incredible and absurd from a good freethinker's rational point of view. To me it is something that can't be explained and basing my beliefs in reason always lead to them crashing down. It wasn't until I decided that I believed based on the power of the absurd, subjectively rooting it in the passions and not logic, did I find peace with that. Spirituality has been a never ending experience for me in growing. The man who brought Buddhism to America subscribed to the idea that "All paths lead to God," or basically that no matter what any of us is doing we are all growing and experiencing what we need to. I try and meditate in the zazen style everyday after prayer and heartily enjoy listening to and reading things by Thich Nhat Hanh. The more I read various books by people of all walks I find that there are underlying spiritual principles which never change despite the different religions they are found in. And through practicing these principles I am of the opinion that they are found everywhere for good reason. I feel that religion and/or spirituality gives a great many people all over the world stability and purpose in there lives.

So in closing, I think religion is just fine.

[nix]

I am a Roman Catholic (sort of) and a fan of the works of Soren Kierkegaard and Carl Jung, so take that for what you will.

I fully concede that religion, and mine in particular, seems incredible and absurd from a good freethinker's rational point of view. To me it is something that can't be explained and basing my beliefs in reason always lead to them crashing down. It wasn't until I decided that I believed based on the power of the absurd, subjectively rooting it in the passions and not logic, did I find peace with that. Spirituality has been a never ending experience for me in growing. The man who brought Buddhism to America subscribed to the idea that "All paths lead to God," or basically that no matter what any of us is doing we are all growing and experiencing what we need to. I try and meditate in the zazen style everyday after prayer and heartily enjoy listening to and reading things by Thich Nhat Hanh. The more I read various books by people of all walks I find that there are underlying spiritual principles which never change despite the different religions they are found in. And through practicing these principles I am of the opinion that they are found everywhere for good reason. I feel that religion and/or spirituality gives a great many people all over the world stability and purpose in there lives.

So in closing, I think religion is just fine.

Nice post, but "I think religion is just fine" even though it is the causer of most wars and the reason why this world is not in one unity?

We all know religion is the basis for one persons stability/purpose, but as a mass it helps do nothing but cause problems.

Religion would only work in my eyes if people kept it to themselves and stopped knocking on peoples doors trying to convert people.

I myself cant accept what cant be prooven, until then it is its just a BS lie.

[Infernaeus]

Nice post, but "I think religion is just fine" even though it is the causer of most wars and the reason why this world is not in one unity?

Wars are a part of human nature, and we attach all kinds of reasons to them, but the removal of religion would not remove wars or genocide or any of those travesties. Most wars have been caused by a number of very practical reasons, not religious ones. Greed, fear, and envy keep us from being a unified race of human beings, I think, and not religions. The only reason religion shows the signs of these character flaws is because we structured these religions, and we are these religions. So, just as we have flaws so too do our organizations.

Religion would only work in my eyes if people kept it to themselves and stopped knocking on peoples doors trying to convert people.

Yes, I think that spirituality is a completely individual experience, and if religions are there to help us with spiritual growth then they should be there for those who seek them, they shouldn't seek people and try to add to their congregation.

[Freya]

I think religion can be blessing AND curse.
Blessing: I have a good friend who had a very difficult time last summer. He really was all sad and didn't see any good things anymore. I think he had even given up on everything. But then, somehow, he rapidly changed as he chose a religion for himself and believed in God. And he became happier again through believing.
That's why I think that religion can be a real blessing: If you're feeling down and don't know a way out of the dark, you can pray to God. I'm quite sure that God won't destroy all the sorrows within you in one hit, but just believing that there is someone you can rely on gives you strength.
Curse: I think it has already been mentioned many times, but I don't understand wars due to religions either. Perhaps it's a bit harsh of me.. but aren't we all believing in the same God? Why so many differences? All we seek is salvation and help. So why don't we stick together and let each other live peacefully with their own belief? I just don't get it. .,.
Last schoolyear in religion we talked about religious wars and we tried to find an answer WHY that has to happen and HOW we can change something. We didn't really find an answer to the last question. It is totally naive of me to say that we all believe in the same God and that we can end the wars that easily. I somehow even understand how they feel, but I'd say it's righteous. .,. They want to be right, although no one can prove that there are more Gods. (Which sounds very strange, if you ask me...)

Personally, I don't believe in God. And even if I believed in him, I wouldn't say that he's always there for me. IF a God (I don't care which one as for me they're all equal) made the world and the humans, then He should be aware that people are all unique. And I think they all have their own will. That's why so many bad things can happen. Hmm.. it's false to say that God doesn't care about His people, but he gave them the Earth as a place to live, so why should He interfere?

[GHOSTED]

Religion Never Really made sense to me. My mother tells me That I should Love and Rescpet Jesus and stuff, but I cant really Respect Jesus OR God. Religion is the answer to Questions people can not answer. They let Religion Run there lives, teach them, show them, and take them to there death. Religion can be see as the base of Life and Death, But I see it as nothing more then something to argue over.

[RagnaToad]

Religion Never Really made sense to me. My mother tells me That I should Love and Rescpet Jesus and stuff, but I cant really Respect Jesus OR God. Religion is the answer to Questions people can not answer. They let Religion Run there lives, teach them, show them, and take them to there death. Religion can be see as the base of Life and Death, But I see it as nothing more then something to argue over.

If you don't 'believe' in God and don't read the Bible but respect your fellow man, try to be a friendly person and help out people once in a while, you're still a better christian than most of those conservative nutjobs.

And what's wrong with finding answers in religion? If people can draw strength and confidence from it, I say let'em be.

As for my religion:
I believe in love.

[GHOSTED]

If you don't 'believe' in God and don't read the Bible but respect your fellow man, try to be a friendly person and help out people once in a while, you're still a better christian than most of those conservative nutjobs.

And what's wrong with finding answers in religion? If people can draw strength and confidence from it, I say let'em be.

As for my religion:
I believe in love.

I help those who Need it when Ever I can. I do what must be done, and how I do it is my own bussiness to be honest, no trying to sound like an asshole.
And regarding my finding answers in Religion, I just think it's easyer to find answers within your self then with in the Bible. Dont take offence to my opinion, after all, it's just my thoughts on Religion.

[RagnaToad]

Relax, I'm not easily offended.

But do you have a problem with people finding inspiration/strength/whatever in a book?

Don't tell me you have never reflected about yourself and the world after reading a book, watching a movie or talking to someone.

[GHOSTED]

To be honest, I have. But I dont think a book written so long ago is worth much in the modern world. I'd much rather take in from a person who knows the world better then a book written so long ago.

[RagnaToad]

That I don't get.

So exactly what is the expiry date on books that can be an inspiration?

1 year?
a century?
anything younger than shakespeare is ok?
1000 years?

[GHOSTED]

lol, When the world gives up my Friend. Which was around 2001, in my opinion. To be serious, the world has changed a lot since the Bible was written. The world is in a time of depression. The People we put our power into ( The Us Goverment) Know nothing about the world, only about what they can do to fix things for them selves. Church Gods Goverment.

[RagnaToad]

You're not really making any sense, nor are you answering my question.

Why is it so wrong for people to read the Bible and be inspired by the stories to live a better life and reflect about themselves?

I'm not talking about governments or the Church at all, so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

And you're not allowed to be inspired by stuff that was written before 2001? That is both ridiculous and impossible.

[GHOSTED]

Religion Never Really made sense to me. My mother tells me That I should Love and Rescpet Jesus and stuff, but I cant really Respect Jesus OR God. Religion is the answer to Questions people can not answer. They let Religion Run there lives, teach them, show them, and take them to there death. Religion can be see as the base of Life and Death, But I see it as nothing more then something to argue over.

Read the last part...Thats one reason I dont mess with Religion. This is all that will ever come from Religion. I have nothing againts people reading the bible. I just dont think it serves much point for mordern days.

[RagnaToad]

Ummm.

You're implying that being kind to one another and following an example like some Jewish fellow called Jesus of Nazareth, who helped young delinquants and stuff is not relevant anymore?

That's kind of harsh.

[GHOSTED]

The whole story of the Bible is fine, just not what it teachs. In the event your next post says "have you read the bible" The answer is no. And to play ahead of time. I dont plan on ever reading it. I dont need god in my life.

[RagnaToad]

Well what does the Bible 'teach' you?

It doesn't teach anything. It's a book. The first part is just a copy of the Jewish Thora, the second part is a book full of stories about Jesus of Nazareth, that contains ideas of peace and kindness.

[GypsyElder]

I try not to label myself as one specific religion because I don't really know about religon myself. I'm not a huge religous person that goes to church everyday, and reads the Bible. But I can say that I have read the Bible in the past ( I wouldn't say the whole thing..) and I do beleive in god,probably because that is the way I was brought up and nothing will change my mind.I am religous to an extent. Growing up I was raised Catholic,however I know nothing specific to the Catholic tradition,like for example,not eating meat on certin days or puting black ash stuff on my forehead or whatever...I don't argue or care about what religion is because everyone's religion is different and everyone thinks they're right when we know nothing.And when I say that I mean everyone will believe what they will and It is point less to fight over it, and sad.

I hate when Bible thumpers come knocking on my door trying to convert me, or when I am In public and they try to argue with me and tell me I am wrong.I know their intensions are all good but pointless,because the conversation always goes nowhere.

Whats the point?? think about It if someone came up to you and tried to tell you that your religion is false would you listen?? of course not!! so why would someone else?

[Jeremy]

Well what does the Bible 'teach' you?

It doesn't teach anything. It's a book. The first part is just a copy of the Jewish Thora, the second part is a book full of stories about Jesus of Nazareth, that contains ideas of peace and kindness.

Hahahaha what? It teaches you everything you need to know about life. Believe in God and he promises to give you everything you need and all of the riches you desire (if you follow the rules of the Bible). Without knowing about the bible you won't get the happiness you want. Think about it, all of those Atheist actors and singers out there get tons of money, but do you really think they're happy? No, they get followed around constantly and have nothing but a dramatic life. I'd much rather be the guy that has a beautiful house and a great family with other kinds of riches in life than to be the TV star. If you read the Bible, and love and believe in God, you'll have all of these things. The Bible isn't just a "Book" and yes, it does teach you things.

[RagnaToad]

think about It if someone came up to you and tried to tell you that your religion is false would you listen?? of course not!! so why would someone else?

I was thinking the exact same thing only yesterday. People who want to 'make someone believe' in whatever they think they should believe are not thinking it through. Like you said, I would love to say to those people 'Is there any chance that I could convince you that there is nog God?' (for example). Obviously, they'd say no. Besides, I'm all for love and peace, doesn't that make me a good christian even though I say I'm not one?

It's a funny world.

Hahahaha what? It teaches you everything you need to know about life. Believe in God and he promises to give you everything you need and all of the riches you desire (if you follow the rules of the Bible). Without knowing about the bible you won't get the happiness you want. Think about it, all of those Atheist actors and singers out there get tons of money, but do you really think they're happy? No, they get followed around constantly and have nothing but a dramatic life. I'd much rather be the guy that has a beautiful house and a great family with other kinds of riches in life than to be the TV star. If you read the Bible, and love and believe in God, you'll have all of these things. The Bible isn't just a "Book" and yes, it does teach you things.

This post makes no sense on so many levels, but the use of the word 'rules' is just scary... If you're trying to say that following the Bible is the only way to happiness, and that being friendly in general, without following all those (here it comes) rules is a waste of time, you're no better than muslim fundamentalists who think everyone that doesn't live by the Koran is the devil.

[Jeremy]

i find it hard to believe in something that i cant see most of my day i have a person coming up to me telling me that the world will be saved and that the lord will come and save us from this and i know someone who gave their whole life to this and they never been the same since and that what were they told to be like this giving up everything for something we know nothing about

the thing is with me is that if this is all true in someway then why hasnt something been done yet why hasnt this being come down and saved us in this time when help is need people and getting killed people and losing homes families people fighting getting hurt and all these viruses and sickness in the world

The Bible specifically states that it's not what you see, it's faith. He doesn't want to show himself. He'd much rather get someone to honestly believe in him without seeing him because that shows your commitment. If we all saw him, it would be much too easy. He really wants to pick out the good souls to come and be in heaven with him. Not the ones that will only "believe it when they see it".

[Jeremy]

This post makes no sense on so many levels, but the use of the word 'rules' is just scary...

What? How does it not make sense? From a Atheist's point of view of course it may not. But you need to open your mind a little bit and not be so decided on not believing in Him or the Bible. Rules. Yes, he wants you to follow the rules he gave us. Such as no sex before marriage, not using his name in vain, cursing, and other sorts of Sins. He has the right to give us rules. He was the one that made the earth and our lives in the first place. If I created something i'd want others to follow the rules while they're in it too.

[RagnaToad]

The Bible specifically states that it's not what you see, it's faith. He doesn't want to show himself. He'd much rather get someone to honestly believe in him without seeing him because that shows your commitment. If we all saw him, it would be much too easy. He really wants to pick out the good souls to come and be in heaven with him. Not the ones that will only "believe it when they see it".

Here you are claiming that only people who believe in God get to 'go to heaven', while acting like the most righteous person on earth.

Isn't it un-christian to say only people like you deserve eternal happiness? (Cause I assume that's what you mean by 'heaven'.)

[Jeremy]

Christians are muslims.

Muslims are not Christians. Do you know anything? Muslims believe in a completely different God.

[Jeremy]

Here you are claiming that only people who believe in God get to 'go to heaven', while acting like the most righteous person on earth.

Isn't it un-christian to say only people like you deserve eternal happiness? (Cause I assume that's what you mean by 'heaven'.)

Yes. Only devoted Christians go to heaven.