In my opinion, yes. It's all part of the song, and those songs are made by black rappers.
But there are white people (mostly American I'm guessing) that feel uncomfortable with singing along to that word.
I don't think they should be. The term is not used pejoratively or racist, and it's part of the whole brotha vibe that comes with rap and hiphop.
So what do you think?
Last edited by RagnaToad; 08-21-2009 at 07:55 PM.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
I don't see a problem with it, it's just apart of a song it not like your walking up to someone and saying it be be a racist are you? it's a different story if someone used the word "niggar" in an abusive way.
So yeah don't see a problem with, if your uncomfortable saying it then don't.
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I don't see a problem with the word "nigger" at all. I think it's bullshit that TFF censors it, and it's bullshit that television censors it.
Sure, it's a derogatory word. Sure, it can cause a lot of ill feelings. When black people stop using it to refer to other black people, they can start bitching about other races using it to refer to black people. Until then, drop the double-standard.
You don't see white people listening to country songs about how they're inbred white trash "crackers", then bitching when a black person calls them the same thing, do you?
I live in America. Here, we have more rights than anywhere else in the world. We get to keep a greater portion of our earnings, we get choices in every aspect, and we have the freedom to do whatever we please, as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
We do NOT, however, have the right to never have our feelings hurt. Someday, somewhere, somebody will say something we don't like. We might REALLY dislike it. We might feel bad. We might even start crying. That doesn't mean that the person who said it did anything outside of their rights.
(Unless you tell them to stop and they follow you to keep saying it, then it's harassment. But you can't just tell them to stop and stick around and want them to get into trouble if they don't stop.)
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Pretty much my same thoughts on this. Saying it to be racist is 100% diffrent then saying it while singing along to a song. It would be like me quoteing some one using the word.Originally Posted by winterborn86
Just checking; are you saying that it's okay outside of music? Like if you saw a black person, would you refer to them as a "nigger"?
I don't like the term used, by black or white people. It has a too dark (sorry, pun) history and has been used in such a derogatory manner. I'm somewhat postmodernist in that I believe in the power of words.
Then again, it's fairly commonplace, and is more acceptable in music than in speech - it certainly has the precedent to back it up.
Though there is very little double standard. A black person using it on another black person is different because is does not carry the same historical charge as if a white person uses it. It's like white people have forfeited their right to it by using it negatively.
We're all supposed to be equal, but black people can use the word, and white people can't? I'm not saying I use the word or anything. And I would be surprised if white people started using the word. (I'm not agreeing with what Sasquatch is suggesting, but I get the point he's making.)
But allowing only a certain group of people to use a specific word for the sake of equality, seems a bit of a paradox. Ironical too.
OR you make the word 'ok' for everyone.
OR you leave it to be a 'bad' word for everyone.
Ah, semantics.
Last edited by RagnaToad; 08-22-2009 at 04:54 PM.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
I said that I don't like anyone using it, but black people have more of a right to as they never exactly used it negatively.
Why can't words be good for some and bad for others? Though in this case I like to think it is bad for all.
Yeah. You can say whatever the **** you want. It's your right. What the deciding factor in this case is, is what a black person thinks about a white person dropping the N bomb. Will they think it's weird for a white person to be using it? Definitely. But that's besides the point. I'm white so, anyone who is socially accepted to use the word the correct way want to chime in?
I don't care if you're white or black, I don't like the word. My ancestors were a rotten bunch for using the word to class black people as "filth" or whatever, and in this society, I don't see why people should be using the word.
As for singing a song containing the word... really, I don't care - sing it. At the end of the day, the rapper who wrote the song should know he'll have some white fans, and if he inserts the word "n*gger" into it... it's on his head. So, go ahead and sing it. Just don't use it in the way our ancestors did.
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I Think if in a song witch is for entertainment perposes then its ok but if its used in an insulting way then its not ok
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If it's in a song It's fine. Obvuously the writer wanted people to say it seeing as how they incorporated it into their song. However I think other than that,the word shouldn't be used at all, or at least that would be best for everyone. I feel like black people who use the word either don't know the history of the word,don't care because they think they can say it anyway,or they didn't live during that time period or know anyone who has. And for any other race it's inappropreate,only because everyone reacts differently. In actuallity, for me I could care less If someone uses the word,but if someone uses it in a negative way,be prepared to be disrespected in return.
Last edited by GypsyElder; 08-22-2009 at 06:40 PM.
I don't think that's true. Most if not all black people know that the term was used derogatory by white people.
That's why they started saying it in their music in the first place, to mock one another. It became a word that the black people used themselves, to relativize the bad history and all.
On a sidenote: I saw this movie 'Life' with Eddie Murphy a day ago. (Sucked ass, but whatever.) The story took place before and around WW II. Eddie Murphy's character called the other black guy 'nigga'. Of course, nowadays that's a normal thing, but this movie took place in the 30s and 40s. So in some way that's just an anachronism.
And to quote Tupac Shakur:
"Niggers" was the ones on the rope, hanging off the thing; "niggas" is the ones with gold ropes, hanging out at clubs.
Last edited by RagnaToad; 08-22-2009 at 07:47 PM.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
Your right at that, when I say that I mean, there are a lot of people that I know that use the word casually (not in music).The only reason why I can see it be ok with them is that It doesn't bother them,meaning they probably don't know someone who has lived in that time ect... I would think that someone who lived through that wouldn't be so quick to use the word so freely or that casually,I can't see any other reasons why.
Last edited by GypsyElder; 08-22-2009 at 07:34 PM.
I'm saying that I don't have a problem with it.
No. I wouldn't (usually) use the term, myself. But why shouldn't I? Let me rephrase ... Why should I be looked down upon for saying it, while blacks shouldn't?Like if you saw a black person, would you refer to them as a "nigger"?
It's not proper. I wouldn't walk around children and call them "little shits" or "little bastards", either. The damn kid might be a little bastard, but it wouldn't be proper to refer to them as that. I don't walk around screaming curse-words, either.
At one point in history, people were burned alive for merely being accused of whichcraft. At many points of history in certain areas, people were ridiculed, tortured, or even murdered for being associated with Jews or Christians, especially Protestants. Nearly every group, at some point in time, has been persecuted.It has a too dark (sorry, pun) history and has been used in such a derogatory manner.
Is it wrong, then, to say that somebody is a witch? What about non-Jews using the word "Jew"? What about accusing somebody of being Protestant?
I must be old school -- I believe in freedom of speech.I'm somewhat postmodernist in that I believe in the power of words.
So a black person can do it, but a white person cannot, and you call that a "very little" double standard? There's nothing "little" about that double standard.Though there is very little double standard. A black person using it on another black person is different because is does not carry the same historical charge as if a white person uses it. It's like white people have forfeited their right to it by using it negatively.
As Chris Rock put it, there are black people, and then there are niggers. Just like there are Mexicans/Latinos, and there are spics. Just like there are white people, and there are white trash.
But to say, "they say it all the time but they get mad when we say it, so we shouldn't say it" is quite a bit too much "tolerance" for me. If they want to accept it, accept it. If they don't, don't. But it's racist to tolerate something from your own race, but not from another.
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Because It didn't happen to you. And when I say you I mean your race.You're looked down upon for saying it because society/African Americans interprate that as insesnsitive and uncaring,disrespectful, because it didn't happen to you. Making low blows like that makes people loose respect for you.( in general, not that i'm saying you throw low blows)
The difference beteen white/ other races saying it and an African American is that If a black person says it, then it sends the asumption that, it doesn't effect them in a negative way today. But if you say it it is viewed as racist. Thats just how it is.
If it was the other way around wouldn't you feel the same??
These are just interpretations/lables for types of people. If you believe them thats you, but not everyone does.As Chris Rock put it, there are black people, and then there are niggers. Just like there are Mexicans/Latinos, and there are spics. Just like there are white people, and there are white trash.
you don't have a problem with it...and you think it's bullshit that it's censored....I don't see a problem with the word "nigger" at all. I think it's bullshit that TFF censors it, and it's bullshit that television censors it.
but droping the N bomb is like this:
and it isn't proper???It's not proper. I wouldn't walk around children and call them "little shits" or "little bastards", either. The damn kid might be a little bastard, but it wouldn't be proper to refer to them as that. I don't walk around screaming curse-words, either.
soooo, what happened to what Chris Rock said?? If you think it's true, then why not say it out in the open??
Last edited by GypsyElder; 10-13-2009 at 03:10 PM.
Hold the phone.
- You don't have an issue with it.
- You would sometimes use it, and believe that this should be acceptable.
- You accept that it is an improper word.
Acknowledging that it is improper, but still occasionally using it, and wanting it to be acceptable? Sounds like you just want the right to be a racist.
It is not wrong, as Jews are still Jews and Protestants are still Protestants. Those words carried negative connotations in certain times, but they weren't entirely new words created to solely offend. Even during persecution, Protestants referred to themselves as Protestants. The word "nigger" was developed from the word "negro" with the intention of being racist. The fact that it is used today in a different manner is beside the point. To use it would be to attempt to create offense, especially when there are better words for black people. Is there a better, less 'persecutionally-charged' word for Jewish people than "Jews"? No, there isn't.At one point in history, people were burned alive for merely being accused of whichcraft. At many points of history in certain areas, people were ridiculed, tortured, or even murdered for being associated with Jews or Christians, especially Protestants. Nearly every group, at some point in time, has been persecuted.
Is it wrong, then, to say that somebody is a witch? What about non-Jews using the word "Jew"? What about accusing somebody of being Protestant?
As do I, but not when it descends to racism.I must be old school -- I believe in freedom of speech.
How you look at one sentence and not the rest does not cease to amaze me. I also said: "A black person using it on another black person is different because is does not carry the same historical charge as if a white person uses it." It is not a double standard because both races have and do use it differently. If both black people and white people saw it as a racist word, then in it's rap usage it would be a huge double standard, but that is simply not the case. For a black person to use it is to refer to their common history of subjugation, but it is not directed at their own race negatively - it's a brotherhood, if you will. But a white person using it does still (and probably will for a very long time) carry it's historical context. The different situations avoid the usage of the word becoming a double standard.So a black person can do it, but a white person cannot, and you call that a "very little" double standard? There's nothing "little" about that double standard.
I argued that I generally don't tolerate it in any usage, but that black people have a greater right to it. Call that racist, but I'm convinced it's less racist than a white person using the word "nigger" when: a) they know and understand it's history; b) they know and understand how it is a word which was created by their race deliberately to dehumanise another race; and c) is completely unnecessary, so to use it is to deliberately create offense.As Chris Rock put it, there are black people, and then there are niggers. Just like there are Mexicans/Latinos, and there are spics. Just like there are white people, and there are white trash.
But to say, "they say it all the time but they get mad when we say it, so we shouldn't say it" is quite a bit too much "tolerance" for me. If they want to accept it, accept it. If they don't, don't. But it's racist to tolerate something from your own race, but not from another.
Last edited by Alpha; 08-23-2009 at 04:12 AM.
@ Sasquatch:
I get what you're saying, man. The word has sort of lost its original meaning, mostly because of hip hop culture and black people relativizing the whole history behind it by saying it themselves.
But to say that the original semantics of the word have completely gone, is kind of naive. The majority of the people still see it as a bad word, which means it is.
The process of introducing the term in general, underogatory vocabulary will be a long and tedious path. It doesn't happen over, what, maybe 50 years? (If it even started that long ago.)
You could see yourself as a pioneer, leading the semantic revolution on this one. But I don't think you should be careless about the word.
Last edited by RagnaToad; 08-23-2009 at 10:26 AM.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
So because some people, who might have been of my race, disrespected some people who were of a different race, we should tolerate more from that race than we should of mine?
Most of the black people that use "nigger" aren't old enough to have experienced real racism. The black people that have gone through real racism -- I mean REAL racism, not just bitching because they got pulled over -- respect themselves enough to not go around calling each other "nigger".
They interpret it as insensitive, uncaring, and disrespectful coming from a WHITE person, but not from a BLACK person. One race can do it, the other can't. Allowing one race to do something but claiming that the other race doesn't have that right ... that's a little racially prejudiced, ain't it? I mean hell, it's a double-standard, at the very least.You're looked down upon for saying it because society/African Americans interprate that as insesnsitive and uncaring,disrespectful, because it didn't happen to you.
And I don't walk around calling people "niggers". I have more respect for them than that. I just don't like the double-standard.Making low blows like that makes people loose respect for you.( in general, not that i'm saying you throw low blows)
So you can go up to a black person that says "nigger" and call them a "nigger", because them saying it means it doesn't affect them in a negative way? You and I both know that's not true. It's not the word, it's who says it ... not even who says it that's the issue, but the RACE of who says it.The difference beteen white/ other races saying it and an African American is that If a black person says it, then it sends the asumption that, it doesn't effect them in a negative way today.
If you're white and say it, it's viewed as racist -- and the person is viewed as racist for saying it. When black people say it, nobody blinks an eye.But if you say it it is viewed as racist. Thats just how it is.
If it was the other way around, I would either be upset that the word is used at all -- and more upset at members of MY race that use it -- or not give a damn about one simple little word.If it was the other way around wouldn't you feel the same??
"Damn" isn't proper. "Ass" isn't proper. "Titties" isn't proper. But there's still a song that is entirely devoted to repeating "Ass and titties, ass and titties". Is it proper? No. Should we be allowed to say it? Of course.you don't have a problem with it...and you think it's bullshit that it's censored....
but droping the N bomb is like this:
and it isn't proper???
I don't care about saying it either way -- the black people I'm friends with don't put a different standard on other races, so they don't care. And if I'm not friends with a black person, I won't use it around them until I hear them say it -- then if and when I use it, they're either alright with it or they expose their racial bias by bitching about me saying it.soooo, what happened to what Chris Rock said?? If you think it's true, then why not say it out in the open??
(since that seems to be what you want so bad....)
I don't care if it's acceptable or not. I just want it one way or the other -- if it's alright for one race, it should be the same for the other.
Sounds like you're quick to call me racist without knowing anything about me, kid. Maybe next time you should keep your ignorant comments to yourself ... but then what would be left to post?Sounds like you just want the right to be a racist
And neither was "nigger", but nice try.It is not wrong, as Jews are still Jews and Protestants are still Protestants. Those words carried negative connotations in certain times, but they weren't entirely new words created to solely offend.
You sure about that?Even during persecution, Protestants referred to themselves as Protestants.
False. "nigger" comes from niger and nigar[/], both derived from the Spanish and Portuguese negro. Both of [those were originate with the Latin word, nigrum, the accusative form of "black". "Nigger" did NOT originate with the intention of being a racial insult, it was simply a term used to describe dark-skinned people. I suggest you find whoever told you that it was developed as a racial insult and smack them -- they either told you wrong because they were ignorant, or they told you wrong because they wanted to see if you were gullible enough to buy it, but either way, even if common knowledge is somewhat uncommon in your situation, a simple internet search should help you inform yourself.The word "nigger" was developed from the word "negro" with the intention of being racist.
It's used both as a racial slur and as a greeting, etc. today, depending on who uses it. The issue is that when it's used, it's rarely as a racial slur, and still there is an obvious racial double-standard on who is allowed and who is not allowed by society to use one simple word.The fact that it is used today in a different manner is beside the point.
So when black people say, "nigger", they're using it in an attempt to create offense? The rare occasions that I use the word "nigger", I'm always using it in an attempt to create offense? Damn kid, for being so ignorant on so many other subjects, you're apparently psychic enough to know what everybody's thinking whenever they say the word "nigger".To use it would be to attempt to create offense, especially when there are better words for black people.
Well, since apparently "black" has now become improper and "African-American" has replaced it, and since there is a Jewish religion AND a Jewish ethnicity, why not refer to them as "People of Jewish ethnicity", "People of the Jewish religion", or "People of Jewish ethnicity and faith"? Why not "God's Chosen People", since they refer to their own ethnicity/religion as that as well?Is there a better, less 'persecutionally-charged' word for Jewish people than "Jews"? No, there isn't.
Is a white person white, or are they "European-American" or "Caucasian"? And if they call themselves "Caucasian", can we all look down on black people for using the term "Caucasian"?
You don't support free speech, if you believe one race can use certain language that another can't, or that certain words are racist if one race says them but not if another does.As do I, but not when it descends to racism.
I quoted your entire statement.How you look at one sentence and not the rest does not cease to amaze me.
There you go again, Miss Cleo, with your psychic knowledge that every white person who uses the word "nigger" is always using it as a racial insult.I also said: "A black person using it on another black person is different because is does not carry the same historical charge as if a white person uses it." It is not a double standard because both races have and do use it differently.
So what you're saying is: The two races don't use it the same way, so its use should be accepted if it's by one group, but the other group should not use it.
Damn kid, do you know what a double-standard is? EXACTLY THAT.
So black people see it as a racist word, but only when it doesn't come from black people. How many flashing "DOUBLE-STANDARD" lights do you need in front of your face?If both black people and white people saw it as a racist word, then in it's rap usage it would be a huge double standard, but that is simply not the case.
Please describe how "Korean muthaf***as was crooked, so niggas had to burn an' loot 'em" is in reference to a common history of subjugation. I'd like to hear this.For a black person to use it is to refer to their common history of subjugation, but it is not directed at their own race negatively - it's a brotherhood, if you will.
Because people like you will assume that one word is racist, and hold a double-standard with it, where certain races using it will be considered bad while other races using it will be considered acceptable.But a white person using it does still (and probably will for a very long time) carry it's historical context.
Maybe not racist ... ignorant racial double-standard, sure, but I'll leave the accusations of racism to kids like you.I argued that I generally don't tolerate it in any usage, but that black people have a greater right to it. Call that racist ...
Well, other than point "b" being complete bullshit, black people know "a" and "c" as well, so you still haven't explained why it's not racist for them to use.... but I'm convinced it's less racist than a white person using the word "nigger" when: a) they know and understand it's history; b) they know and understand how it is a word which was created by their race deliberately to dehumanise another race; and c) is completely unnecessary, so to use it is to deliberately create offense.
Of course that's not what I'm saying. It has a negative history behind it, sure. But if one race can move past that and use it to refer to members of their own race, why is it "racist" when another race uses it to refer to a member of that race?
Bad or good, I don't care -- just pick one. That's my entire point -- if they can use it, so can everybody else. Claiming that one race has a certain right that no other race has doesn't really reflect equality, does it?The majority of the people still see it as a bad word, which means it is.
I'm not careless about it -- like I said, I consider it improper. I very, very rarely use it. I'm just supporting free speech and equal rights, equal treatment.But I don't think you should be careless about the word.
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John 15:13
Ohh yeah I'm all for saying ***** if I'm going along to a rap song. Though I do take notice of who's around. I don't go around shouting it to a song. Usually if I say it I'm around people I know. And when I'm in public I won't sing anyway so I won't sing any of it let alone the N-bomb part.
Not the N-bomb from Perect Dark...that's just different.
Anonymous white kids on the internet. Discussing the N word. Great.
Yes, the word is in rap songs. You're right. For consistency's sake, I don't think it's a good idea for a person of any race to say it. I don't support its use in music (or the misogyny of mainstream rap, but that's another story), so I don't give that music my attention. However, it gets used, and I can sort of understand the idea of taking away the word's power. Do I feel cheated because little old entitled me shouldn't say the N word just like the black rappers? Haha.
I'd like it if the word just went out of style. Like "groovy" or "homie." Maybe if black people stop saying it because it's not cool anymore, it'll catch on with white people for a while, and then it'll go away. That would be.... crunk.
Seriously, it's not that cool of a word. A lot of wasted energy goes into defending the right to use it.
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Well since I'm the blackest person on the forums I hereby declare people can use the word ***** whenever they want so let's all chill out eat some watermelon and do the stanky leg together and everyone will be mad cool ya dig?
Anyways I think the n-word is an interesting word to use. I'm pretty sure it is the top 15-20 of my cursing vocabulary actually, good stuff indeed. And it's in them goshdarned rap songs too! bonus! Unfortunately it has that bad connotation with it because it was used to make derogatory comments about what ethnicity a person is, so that's a bummer.
See, the thing is, I don't think that these racial slur words are mean-sounding enough. The word ***** is just too funny for me not to say when I'm angry. Likewise, whenever eastern europeans/chinese people get mad at me on vent, they call me racial slurs like "mayo", and everyone laughs. If it's okay for them to call me a mayo then it's okay for me to call them niggas.
....
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In my opinion, using the word cannot be split inbetween the two seperate races. Yeah, I don't use it, but that doesn't mean I mind if others use it. I get aggrivated when whites and blacks both use the word.
As for Rap music in general, I don't even have the brain capacity to attempt to listen to it. If it's centered on nothing but using words such as "ass", "titties", and the N-word, as stated earlier, than it'll just keep in circulation. I agree with the statement that, hopefully, the word is dropped once this fad runs it's course.
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I'd love to see that happen.
Of course, that's what I said in a previous post myself.Claiming that one race has a certain right that no other race has doesn't really reflect equality, does it?
Who says I'm white? Sounds like you're saying that white people can't discuss this, which is even worse than saying white people can't say the word.
And the 'anonymous' argument was never a point of discussion. Or else you might refrain from posting on a forum all together.
That is how most 'cool' things evolve. Like Rock 'n' Roll: The Rolling Stones pretty much ripped off the blues people.Maybe if black people stop saying it because it's not cool anymore, it'll catch on with white people for a while, and then it'll go away. That would be.... crunk.
So true.
Last edited by RagnaToad; 08-27-2009 at 03:06 AM.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
Firstly, I ask that you please stop referring to me as 'kid'. It's condescending, irritating and a little offensive. It's clear that you hold yourself in very high esteem, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. This is ID, so try debating without resorting to belittling.
Secondly, I have lumped all these together because you are just repeating the same thing. I hoped you had fun writing them all out, but no one here needs to hear the same thing ten times to understand your argument.
The word is not acceptable by any standard. I do not like it being used by anyone, of any race. Perhaps it is a double standard, but I also think that black people have a slightly greater right to it than do white people. I will attempt to justify this.
When did black people ever refer to themselves as n*****s in a negative manner? When did white people refer to black people as n*****s in a negative manner? If a white person was to use this word today, what would it draw strength from? If a black person was to use the word today, where would it's context lie?
For a white person, to use this word is to refer to a period where they oppressed fellow human beings based on the colour of their skin. For a black person, this word carries deep hurt, and I think it's use should be avoided. But if a black person was to use it, would they be referring to their own race negatively? Of course not, how can they? They are using it in a context of a mutual, historical feeling of oppression. It is a contentious word, but black people are largely unable to use it offensively, whereas white people are able to.
It's usage has widened, and I propose no theory as to why. This may lessen it's impact on many ears, but my above comments, I believe, still stand. It is far less offensive for a black person to use it, than for a white person. In all contexts, it is still offensive, and we are clearly cautious with who we use it around.
I don't see why if it's OK for (some) black people, it automatically makes it OK for white people, when there are clear differences in the use of the word over time, with regard to the particular races.
Big man. Insulting my intelligence. Ouch. Maybe next time you should keep all use of racial slurs to yourself. I never use the n-word, or any other racial slur, but you admit that sometimes you do. We all know it is a racial slur, but you use it (very rarely). That suggests to me that you're somewhat more racist then I am.Sounds like you're quick to call me racist without knowing anything about me, kid. Maybe next time you should keep your ignorant comments to yourself ... but then what would be left to post?
Good work quoting Wikipedia, but I'll admit, you did more research than I did on this topic. I'll also admit that I did not know that. Maybe living in a country with very few people of African descent has meant that this word is very rarely discussed, and my knowledge of it is primarily based on a very poor quality history teacher when I was 15-16. So thanks. But the point still stands that it quickly became a word that was used to offend, correct? Or am I wrong in this too?False. "nigger" comes from niger and nigar[/], both derived from the Spanish and Portuguese negro. Both of [those were originate with the Latin word, nigrum, the accusative form of "black". "Nigger" did NOT originate with the intention of being a racial insult, it was simply a term used to describe dark-skinned people. I suggest you find whoever told you that it was developed as a racial insult and smack them -- they either told you wrong because they were ignorant, or they told you wrong because they wanted to see if you were gullible enough to buy it, but either way, even if common knowledge is somewhat uncommon in your situation, a simple internet search should help you inform yourself.
While, as I learnt from you, there was a period where this word was simply descriptive, it became offensive to call black people this term. Is there anyone who doesn't know that it is a word that was used to create offense? So when anybody uses it, then, yes, they know they are liable to offend. Many use it in a humourous manner, but they would be very cautious to use it in an appropriate context. You wouldn't go to the NAACP and start calling someone a "nigger" in jest. Thus, we know it is offensive. I'm not psychic, just logical.So when black people say, "nigger", they're using it in an attempt to create offense? The rare occasions that I use the word "nigger", I'm always using it in an attempt to create offense? Damn kid, for being so ignorant on so many other subjects, you're apparently psychic enough to know what everybody's thinking whenever they say the word "nigger".
When did "black" become offensive? It's always more proper to refer to someone's nationality/ethnicity if known, so African American is probably less offensive than "black", but I don't see how it is offensive. I'm sure you don't mind being called "white"? I get labelled a "New Zealand European", which just means "white", though I'd prefer "New Zealander". None of those are offensive as they aren't used in such a way. Look at history and see what type of people have used the n-word, and which have said "black" in a respectful tone. Which do you want to be lumped with?Well, since apparently "black" has now become improper and "African-American" has replaced it, and since there is a Jewish religion AND a Jewish ethnicity, why not refer to them as "People of Jewish ethnicity", "People of the Jewish religion", or "People of Jewish ethnicity and faith"? Why not "God's Chosen People", since they refer to their own ethnicity/religion as that as well?
Is a white person white, or are they "European-American" or "Caucasian"? And if they call themselves "Caucasian", can we all look down on black people for using the term "Caucasian"?
The word "Jew" I would use to refer to someone of the Jewish faith and/or 'ethnicity'. For someone who lives in Israel, they would be an "Israelite", and for someone of "Jewish ancestry", either that term itself, or a person of "Israeli descent". What exactly is your point here?
My point is that it is not directed at black people at large, and it is not used negatively, and in a context of racial supremacy. Think of a Klansman saying the n-word, and in what context it is in. The Klansman uses it to assert racial dominance. This rapper you quote is not using the word to suggest racial supremacy of any form. They are using it to refer to their own race, who has faced this word and everything it represents, but they are not using it negatively. I think that is something that only a person who comes from that background (i.e. black people) have a right to, as in the past other races have used that word in such a negative manner as to entirely forfeit their right to it. I don't want to advocate the use of the word by black people either, but I can tolerate it more, especially in music.Please describe how "Korean muthaf***as was crooked, so niggas had to burn an' loot 'em" is in reference to a common history of subjugation. I'd like to hear this.
Last edited by Alpha; 08-27-2009 at 04:19 PM.
Rocky is lying, I am the blackest person on these forums, he even said it to me.
"You must be the blackest white person I've ever met. This is one of the greatest compliments ever to be given btw"
Anyways, with that being said. White bois can sing it, no problem with that.
Now in terms of saying it? Gotta know when and how to say it. Also at least be cool with the person, I used to use it a lot in a Drafting class in High School, most people got mad, but I didn't care but I was also a really cool person with everyone so I meant no harm. ;]
Okay. Are you white?
I'm saying if a bunch of white people were in a room with a bunch of black people, and not anonymous on the internet, the way they'd express their opinions on saying the N word would be vastly different. That whole tough-guy-I-say-what-I-want attitude would be less prevalent, I imagine. Or perhaps everyone would be completely insensitive, I don't know. I'd like to give you guys a bit more credit than that.
So it may sound like I'm saying what you came up with for me, but don't worry. I'm not.
Curious?
Read more.
TFF Awards:
"I hope I never ridicule what is wise or good. Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies do divert me, I own, and I laugh at them whenever I can."
. SOLDIER ('04) . cHoSeN ('04) . Por Rorr Kitty9 ('09).
HEY DO YOU LIKE MUSIC? Because I make music.
LISTEN HERE!
And color matters now?
You racist!
Anyway, I am indeed white.
And I wouldn't change my opinion about the use of nigga if I were in a room with black people.
Because if I were in a room with black people discussing those things, I'd assume those black people would be my friends, or people you can have a conversation with.
That's just how advanced we're over here, in Europe, or better, Belgium, or better, me and my black friends. Wait, what friends?
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
Haha oh wow. If you could stop being self-righteous and European for a moment, that'd be awesome. It's cool that you have "black friends," thanks for sharing.
What I said was:
"the way they'd express their opinions on saying the N word would be vastly different."
You quoted me and everything. And yet...
I'm not saying opinions would change, I'm saying that I assume people would remember their manners while expressing them. Whereas, in this thread, no one has any accountability. So you can call me racist and shake your smiley-fist at me all you want, because there's nothing I can really do about it.
You misunderstood me. That's okay.
Curious?
Read more.
TFF Awards:
"I hope I never ridicule what is wise or good. Follies and nonsense, whims and inconsistencies do divert me, I own, and I laugh at them whenever I can."
. SOLDIER ('04) . cHoSeN ('04) . Por Rorr Kitty9 ('09).
HEY DO YOU LIKE MUSIC? Because I make music.
LISTEN HERE!
Obviously, I was intentionally being pretentious about me being European.
Who in this thread hasn't behaved properly?I'm not saying opinions would change, I'm saying that I assume people would remember their manners while expressing them. Whereas, in this thread, no one has any accountability.
Cf. my reaction to me being self-righteous...So you can call me racist and shake your smiley-fist at me all you want, because there's nothing I can really do about it.
And yes, I can. That is part of posting on a forum. I wouldn't mind discussing these things with you in person. I never had any problems with you on this forum (except this warning I've got, biatch), and I don't see why that would be any different in real life.
And I try to be as decent on this forum as I would or would not in real life, especially in the Intellectual Discussion forum, since I have more time to reconsider my words than I would if I were actually talking.
I'm not a poser.
I'm pure punk rock, baby.
Crao Porr Cock8: Getting it while the getting's good
Gain enough maturity and intellect, and you'll be treated like an adult.
Apparently, you do. See, what I figured was that if I kept repeating a simple fact, you might finally understand it. Apparently, I was mistaken.Secondly, I have lumped all these together because you are just repeating the same thing. I hoped you had fun writing them all out, but no one here needs to hear the same thing ten times to understand your argument.
So it's not acceptable for anybody to use? Sounds fine.The word is not acceptable by any standard. I do not like it being used by anyone, of any race.
So it's not acceptable by any race, but black people have a right to do it while white people don't. Make up your mind, kid.Perhaps it is a double standard, but I also think that black people have a slightly greater right to it than do white people.
It depends on the context of the original quote. Why does it matter what some people of specific colors do? It's extremely ignorant to take specific instances and apply them to an entire race, or take words in one context and assume that it's used in the same context every time.When did black people ever refer to themselves as n*****s in a negative manner? When did white people refer to black people as n*****s in a negative manner? If a white person was to use this word today, what would it draw strength from? If a black person was to use the word today, where would it's context lie?
Is your argument that some white people use it as an insult, so no white people should ever use it? Honestly?
I never oppressed a fellow human being based on the color of their skin. What would I be referring to?For a white person, to use this word is to refer to a period where they oppressed fellow human beings based on the colour of their skin.
Yes, of course -- the word "nigger carries deep, deep hurt. Which is why it's in half the rap songs and black-culture movies. Deep hurt.For a black person, this word carries deep hurt, and I think it's use should be avoided.
It depends on the context. See: Chris Rock.But if a black person was to use it, would they be referring to their own race negatively? Of course not, how can they?
I'm still waiting for rap lyrics to be interpreted as "in a context of a mutual, historical feeling of oppression".They are using it in a context of a mutual, historical feeling of oppression.
And because some people MIGHT be ABLE to use it to hurt somebody's feelings, it shouldn't be used at all by those people (but it's alright for others).It is a contentious word, but black people are largely unable to use it offensively, whereas white people are able to.
You know what, you might be able to stab me. You should be made to walk around in handcuffs.
More applicably, you might be able to write a nasty letter that hurts my feelings, so you shouldn't be allowed to write.
Depending on how it's used in each specific scenario.It is far less offensive for a black person to use it, than for a white person.
The word "nigger" is offensive in all contexts? Context would include where the word is coming from, you know. You just got through trying to say that "black people are largely unable to use it offensively", and now you're trying to say that it's offensive in all contexts.In all contexts, it is still offensive, and we are clearly cautious with who we use it around.
You mean to tell me that you don't see why one race should have the right to do the same things and use the same language as another?I don't see why if it's OK for (some) black people, it automatically makes it OK for white people, when there are clear differences in the use of the word over time, with regard to the particular races.
I said that you don't know anything about me, and that you should keep your ignorant comments to yourself. That would be an insinuation that you lack in knowledge, not intelligence.Big man. Insulting my intelligence. Ouch.
But go ahead and keep calling me racist for wanting the same standards for multiple races.
And are you going to tell me that I always use it in the context of it being a racial insult? What else can you tell me, Miss Cleo?Maybe next time you should keep all use of racial slurs to yourself. I never use the n-word, or any other racial slur, but you admit that sometimes you do. We all know it is a racial slur, but you use it (very rarely).
Because anybody that ever mutters a word considered to be a racial slur is racist? Oh wait, no, that's only if they're white, right?That suggests to me that you're somewhat more racist then I am.
Wikipedia has a nigger entry? It's pretty common knowledge -- the "romance languages" are derivatives of Latin, Portuguese and Spanish are similar, Negro is the word for "black" (describing the darker skin), the Spanish and Portuguese were first to start colonization and slave trade in North America, niger and nigar were both used in their respective languages to refer to the people as opposed to the color, "nigger" developed from those. It's pretty simple. You'll learn about it in high school.Good work quoting Wikipedia, but I'll admit, you did more research than I did on this topic.
And if you don't know something, you look it up. It's called research. This way, you learn about it, and you don't look like a fool when you're called out and corrected after spouting some crap that you claim is factual.
Hey, it happens. We just have to get out and learn things for ourselves. If we all relied on what we're taught in high school and nothing more, we would have a very, very narrow scope of knowledge.Maybe living in a country with very few people of African descent has meant that this word is very rarely discussed, and my knowledge of it is primarily based on a very poor quality history teacher when I was 15-16.
The trick is to know what you know, and to know what you don't know. I don't get into discussions about cars, because I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to automobiles. I know enough to get by, but I'd have a hard time even changing my oil. I've picked up knowledge here and there, but I would never be arrogant enough to claim that something I think is "fact", when I don't know it.
Somewhat. It's probably been within the last century, maybe the last century and a half that "nigger" has been used as a racial slur. Before that, it was just a label, like "black" or "white" is now.But the point still stands that it quickly became a word that was used to offend, correct? Or am I wrong in this too?
First, words change meaning. Phantom (I believe it was him) created a thread a while ago concerning the use of the word "gay" to be synonymous with "stupid". Languages evolve, words evolve, and what may be offensive in one time may not be in another, or used the same way.While, as I learnt from you, there was a period where this word was simply descriptive, it became offensive to call black people this term. Is there anyone who doesn't know that it is a word that was used to create offense? So when anybody uses it, then, yes, they know they are liable to offend.
And of course, many things are liable to create offense nowdays. Way, way too many things. But that doesn't mean they should be banned, especially when they're not intended to create offense.
Try walking into an NAACP meeting and referring to blacks as "coloreds" or "colored people" and see how they respond. They wouldn't like that, either.Many use it in a humourous manner, but they would be very cautious to use it in an appropriate context. You wouldn't go to the NAACP and start calling someone a "nigger" in jest. Thus, we know it is offensive. I'm not psychic, just logical.
Besides, the NAACP has become an outdated organization that uses its racial influence for legal thuggery, I have no respect for that group.
Hell if I know, I just know I've heard that it's "improper" to refer to somebody as "black", and instead we should use "African-American".When did "black" become offensive?
I don't care for hyphenated-Americanism, anyway. If you were African (as in, lived in Africa), and you moved to America, THEN "African-American" would fit. I don't refer to myself as a "Welsh-American" or "English-American", and nobody else does either.It's always more proper to refer to someone's nationality/ethnicity if known, so African American is probably less offensive than "black", but I don't see how it is offensive.
I honestly don't care. If somebody is petty enough to judge me by something that simple, I have no regard for their judgment.Look at history and see what type of people have used the n-word, and which have said "black" in a respectful tone. Which do you want to be lumped with?
That "Jew" is sometimes used as a slur as well, but nobody's arguing whether or not non-Jews can say that word.What exactly is your point here?
I brought up "witch" before as well, which would be more applicable, but I don't believe I got a specific response to it.
It's not when most white people say it either.My point is that it is not directed at black people at large, and it is not used negatively, and in a context of racial supremacy.
Except I'm not a Klansman.Think of a Klansman saying the n-word, and in what context it is in. The Klansman uses it to assert racial dominance.
That line -- about burning and looting Koreans -- is in reference to the Los Angeles race riots, where blacks attacked, looted, and burned Korean shops in protest to the "not guilty" verdict of the white police officers that gave Rodney King the beating he deserved. (Sorry buddy, you lead police on a half-hour long high-speed chase through residential areas, then get out and attack them, you deserve to get your ass beat. And when you're so doped up that a tazer doesn't affect you, you leave them with no other choice.)This rapper you quote is not using the word to suggest racial supremacy of any form. They are using it to refer to their own race, who has faced this word and everything it represents, but they are not using it negatively.
Why?I think that is something that only a person who comes from that background (i.e. black people) have a right to ...
I'm just asking for one answer. It's either right for everybody to do or it's wrong for everybody to do.
You should know enough about me to know that I'm pretty straight-forward. I don't pretend to be something I'm not because I'm on the internet. I would hold this discussion with black people, and have before, and have said the same things I've posted here.
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Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends.
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