Bleach Club

[CLOUD]

First of all, welcome to the club Dante. You didn't have to enclose your msn though. It's alright. Anyways, i'll add you.

Xeim, on Adult Swin, they're on which episode? So as to know when to use spoilers next time...

About the subject with Urahara, Yoruichi & Kurosaki.

Spoiler: In episode 111, Kurosaki Isshin fights against the Grand Fisher in his immature Arrancar form & kills it. Then he makes it clear that he was a Shinigami Captain as well, both by his clothing & by mentioning that Captains can measure the size of their Zanpakutou. So, it's clear why he would have a close relationship with Kisuke & Shihouin, who were Captains as well.

When it comes to their being controlled by Soul Society after exiling them, Andromeda said that there would be a risk of losing Captains while trying to fight them. Since they all were captains, i think that by sending the rest 10 Captains againast them, that would be the way for Soul Society to restrict their powers & their movements. Even Yamamoto could do that alone.

I have some questions.
1) Is there a mention about the Division in which Isshin was Captain? (probably not yet...)

2) Kisuke & Shihouin are using gigai as well? Beacuse if so, Kisuke wouldn't be able to use his blade, Benihime. ( again probably not )

Furthermore, it seems that Souls inside gigais can mate with humans. Otherwise, Ichigo is not Isshin's son. (....no comment on this one...)

About your character equilavents, i agree with Jaken & Yachiru...but i think that the little girl, Rin (i think) , who travels with Sesshomaru is more like Yachiru. Not just because they both are girls & the cute-adoralbe type, but, come to think of it, Jaken seems sometimes intimidated by Sesshomaru, while Rin never seems to be afraid of him, from the episodes i've watched that is.

[Andromeda]

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing about Rin and Jaken. Rin is closer to Yachiru than Jaken is. Yachiru is cheerful and bubbly, and Rin is almost eternally cheerful as well. There is only a few times she isn't, but she is being kidnapped or attacked, so you can understand. Plus as said, Jaken is pretty much afraid of Sesshomaru at times and will say the wrong thing because he is nervious. Rin is very open and says whatever she wants to not seeing Sesshomaru as someone to fear.

About Urahara using his Zanpukto, it does bare a good question. However, I am figuring since Urahara made Gigais himself and it was related in his reason for getting exiled. He probably was able to make a Gigai that allowed him to access his Shinigami powers while still inside it. Because knowing Urahara, he is the Washu of Bleach, so he can make just about anything that he wants.

While mentioning the Gigai and couples with humans. There is a lot of strange things that happen in Bleach and souls. Not a lot of it really makes a lot of sense. I mean, apparently souls in the Soul Society can actually have babies. So making the leap to Gigais and humans, does not seem as far as it seems. Especially since, the mother was human.

I'm not sure that I follow what you been about restricting the captains. If you have three captain level Shinigami in the real world it raises concerns for them I would imagine. However, if they wanted to deal with the problem. By say killing them or limiting their power. Both of which would probably need to be done by force. It would require someone of equal or great power, which calls on the other captains. Seeing as all of the captains are not necessary equal in power, but all very strong there is the risk at you would lose a captain you are sending out to fight another. And it is a lot harder to replace a captain than it is to ignore them and just clean up messes as they happen. They did manage to do it, replace the captains, but I would have to wander how long it took them to do that. 13th squad is still absent on a Vice-Captain for however long.

[GrimmJaw]

Thanks for the welcomes guys. Oh and Cloudy, I believe they are on episode 38 or 39. I got tired of only geeting one new episode a week, so I went and found the episodes on Dailymotion.com They have much better quality than Youtube, and they don't plan on deleting their anime. ^_^ Oh, I was wonderin',

Spoiler: When Ichigo first gets his Bankai during the fight with Kuchika Byakuya, is the handguard on his sword a swastika?

[Andromeda]

Oh, sorry for missing that question that you had Cloudy. I don't know if Xeim watches the AS. But since I do, I can answer the question. They just showed Chad fighting and utterly losing against the 8th squad captain, or which ever squad he is in charge of. You probably know the episode I am talking about anyway. Which I believe was episode 37.

The Kenpachi fight is up next, this week, so I am very excited about that. All I have seen of it so far is Ichigo hurting his hands from trying to cut Kenpachi and failing miserably at it. So the real fight should begin this week. Which is very exciting to see Ichigo fight a captain, not to mention someone that is not Renji and a lot stronger than the weaklings thus far. That should give you a pretty good idea where we are placed. I typically give an update on the episode I watched whenever there is a place for me to post again. So you can probably use me as your gauge to know where AS is at any point in time.

However, I do know more about Bleach than what AS has shown, because of my curious nature. So I am aware in part of what you are talking about at times. Though I do try to avoid spoiling too many things for myself, so I do try to ignore the spoil tags. But my curiosity gets the better of me at times. So I do not know everything, but usually bits and pieces.

[Rasler]

No, Tensa Zangetsu's hand guard is not a swastika. It is a mirror image of a swastika. The legs of the symbol open counter-clockwise rather than clockwise.

Interestingly enough, on Japanese maps, reverse swastikas are used to mark locations of Bhuddist temples.

Now for a bit of swastika education:

The swastika is based off of a sanskrit symbol. It was a positive symbol, meaing "good luck, or "wellness."

The swastika is a widely used symbol in many eastern hemisphere countries.
Since Hitler's misuse of it in modern history, in the western hemisphere it's become mainly associated with Nazism.

[CLOUD]

Well, let's better leave aside the matter of the three exiled Captains, because it will get really confusing from here on. There might be an explaination in about episode 150 or so. Who knows??? I hate it when they don't make some things clear until much later, when you have to rewatch the former episodes to understand. Anyways, this happens all the time.

The fight between Kenpachi & Ichigo was my favouriye one when i was watching the first episodes. There are better fights later on, but that one is a weird battle.

Spoiler: Ichigo formed a resoltion in order to beat Zaraki, even if he was barely killed himself. He came up with a reiatsu high enough to beat Kenpachi. But, in the future episodes against the Bounto, Ichigo seems much weaker when fighting them, not because it's harder to use Bankai in the real world. He is defeated in battles that seem far easier than the one against Kenpachi. He fought a Shinigami who left Soul Society & is comrade to the Bounto, Ichinose Maki & still lost. Maki was member of the 11th Division, but left it when Kenpachi became Captain. He was defeated in battle against Zaraki, who didn't seem to have gotten much stronger or different from the ep 37+

My point is that Ichigo seemed more determined in the beginning rather than later on, when almost every battle was hard for him to win. It's a controversy.

[Rasler]

This phenomenon occurs in many animes. It prevents any one character from being the best at everything. Certain characters are more effective against other certain characters. It's much like a more complicated game of rock-paper-scissors.

For example:

Spoiler: Ichigo>Zaraki (Episode 38 or so) Zaraki>Tousen (Episode 53) Tousen>Grimmjow (Cuts off Grimmjow's arm) Grimmjow>Ichigo (Episode 123)

The enemies have a much more constant rate of improvement than the protagonists.
The good guys usualy end up...well...cheating, really...to improve enough in a short amount of time.
These strength boosts usually most often just marginally manage to get the job done.
As such, the protagonists' rate of improvement is very sporatic.
This is for dramatic purposes; After all, where's the satisfaction in defeating a foe weaker than you?

[Andromeda]

I would have to agree about that and the development of characters in action oriented anime. A close fight to watch is more interesting than one where there is no chance of defeat. It gives you more tension and you want to see what is going to happen next more. But the hero always comes out on top in the end, cheating as you said. Because who wants to spends years training to fight someone, its just not that interesting to watch.

Though one thing that could be affecting Ichigo in the later episodes is that he is over confident. He probably had some amount of over confidence in the Soul Society that he could just beat everyone. But I think he got a rude awakening when he fought Renji and now Kenpachi, that there are levels that he has not even come near reaching yet.

But once he hits his Bankai, he probably feels that he is on par with the captains now. Since that is the current cap and all one does afterwards is refinement and mastery. He probably feels that he can beat anyone with his Bankai and falls into a false sense. And then get beat up because he is careless. I haven't seen the episodes, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ichigo was feeling over confident in some manner. However, there is always someone stronger out there, a being that has reach another level even higher than the one you are at. Well, at least until the show ends that is.

Though if Ichigo could beat everyone on his own, then he wouldn't need the help of the other captains when fighting. And they would not get as much screen time. So Ichigo cannot be the invincible man that cannot be beaten. It also helps to show that Ichigo still is weak and unrefined when it comes to fighting that. He still has a long way to go.

[CLOUD]

A close fight is one thing. This thing going on in the series.... In the begining, from the point when Ichigo first went into Soul Society for the first time, almost 90% of his fights were close fights. He either had a resolution awakening in him ( Renji, Kenpachi..) or his Inner Hollow took part in the fight (Byakuya).

The thing is that after rescuing Rukia, he lost in almost each battle he fought. After a certain point, he's no more confident. He's scared. He is even aftaid to act.

Spoiler: He couldn't defeat the modified souls. He couldn't defeat any of the Bounto alone, he lost to Ichinose Maki, the Bounto's comrade & he wouldn't have defeated Kariya Jin, if Ran Tao hadn't messed up with his rejuvenation ability. He was pulverized by the Arrancars, Ulquiorra, Yami & Grimmjow.

For about 50 episodes, he's been having his butt kicked every single time.

These episodes seem to have prepared the "soil" for the future episodes

Spoiler: when he finally decides to go to the Vaizards to learn how to supress & contol his Inner Hollow

If he does that, is he going to have his powers doubled or tripled? In the first battle, he'll probably win with ease, but afterwards? It's going to be the same thing again, unless he finds a way to get stronger without training.

I agree that he does need the help of the Captains & the rest strong Shinigami. But i don't like the fact that the only ones we get to see in fights are Hitsugaya, Matsumoto, Ikkaku, Renji, a little bit of Kenpachi & Byakuya & sometimes another vice captain or two...

I'd like to see characters like Kyouraku Shunsui, Komamura Sajin, Ise Nanao, even Yachiru fight once in a while. That would make it more interesting; it cannot always be the same ones, even if i don't know what's beyond episode 129.

[Rasler]

Well, thing is, Ichigo is a unique character.

Unlike the Vizards or Arrancar, Ichigo is in fact, technically, both at the same time, but with switching dominances.

Time for an in-depth explanation:

Arrancar are Hollows that are no longer monstrous in appearance. By gaining Shinigami powers, they regain (What we assume to be) their original human forms. The only Hollow characteristics they retain are a mask fragment, the soul-chain erosion hole, and certain Hollow abilities. By releasing their zanpakutos, the Arrancar physically become part or mostly Hollow to supplement their existing power.

Vizards are Shinigami who, one way or another, have gained Hollow powers. As such, they have at least a partial Hollow running around in their soul, vying for dominance. They suffer no change to their original shinigami appearance while the original soul is dominant. But when the Hollow gains dominance, a Hollow mask appears over the face and the Hollow now has control over the Shinigami's power in addition to its own power. The Hollow also learns what the host learns. A battle for supreme dominance can be had, but it apparently requires some kind of incantion or magic to send the host mind deep within its own soul to battle the Hollow. During this battle, the longer it takes to gain dominance, or the more damage the body suffers, it becomes more Hollow in both appearance and power. Vizards who gain dominance over their inner Hollow can use the hollow's power by wearing its mask. Vizards also have the ability to turn into a Hollow fully, but it is assumed that the Hollow takes dominance.

Urahara's method of awakening Ichigo's own Soul Reaper powers caused him to awaken his own powers by becoming partly Hollow. It is unknown whether Urahara did this deliberately, but it is highly likely given his manipulative nature. He did do research into Shinigami/Hollow hybrids, after all.

Ichigo is unique in that his Zanpakuto's spirit, Zangetsu, is also Ichigo's inner hollow. Ichigo's soul is literally half-hollow. Zangetsu and Inner Hollow Ichigo switch places at the same time outer dominance changes. Interestingly, Zangetsu has the ability to make Inner Hollow Ichigo co-exist while still remaining dominant.

Personally, I'm waiting for Outer-Hollow Ichigo to stab one of those Spirit Dolls and force Inner Hollow Ichigo into the real world. He was Fully outer-Hollow and was swinging Tensa Zangetsu around. Badass.

[CLOUD]

There was this matter about the existence of God in Bleach. I saw that

Spoiler: The true goal of Aizen is to create the King's Key, a key that unlocks the path from the Soul Society's dimention, to another seperate dimension, the place where the "Spirit King"'s Palace resides, along with the Royal Guard that protects him. Though he is only a figurehead in Soul Society, his existence is absolute. Although they didn't refer to him as a God, but as a King, he seems to be the one. Aizen has to make one, because the location of the existsing one is passed down from one Captain Commander to the next. To do that, one needs 100,000 souls and a plot of spirit enriched land with a radius of half a spirit-mile. * the spirit enriched land refers to an area in the real world with an unusual spiritual aura; thsi happens to be Karakura Town..

Does anyone know the exact abilities granted by the Hougyoku?

From what i have seen so far, it can amplify one's reiatsu , make the Hollows turn to Arrancar, create the King's Key.

Spoiler: Aizen has also taken interest in Inoue Orihime & from the looks of it, he's taking her to his side later on.

About amplifying her powers or turning her evil; that i do not know.

If you too have no idea, move on to something else.

[Xeim]

Well, I do have an idea. It has in fact happened in the manga and I've got an unhealthy addiction to Wikipedia. Heh.

Spoiler: Though I have not learned of the details, I do know that Aizen does in fact kidnap Orihime and bring her to Hueco Mundo, where she is "taken care of" by Grimmjow and Ulquiorra. She wears the same attire as the espada, and it appears for a time that she does in fact to begin to work for Aizen. Her intentions are still rather unclear, though it seems Aizen begins to trust her, and even shows her the Hougyoku, whose powers seem to be only what you've mentioned above Cloudy. Orihime then appears to become determined to destroy it. But like I said, it's all very unclear. About amplifing her powers, I have no idea.

Also, forgive me for not posting recently. My User Control panel has, yet again, refused to let me know that there have been posts in this thread. Entirely my fault for not looking beyond it beofre this however.

The subject of Ichigo's strength has been well-explained, by you all, but I would like to mention that it really annoys me. You minute you think the character looks invincible, and the next he looks like a....I don't know...kitten?

I'd like to see characters like Kyouraku Shunsui, Komamura Sajin, Ise Nanao, even Yachiru fight once in a while. That would make it more interesting; it cannot always be the same ones, even if i don't know what's beyond episode 129.

Yes, you're definately right about that. They probably give priority to the characters high on the "rating charts" instead of giving everyone a chance. I myself want to see Yachiru more often. She's seen more in the "shinigami's cup" more then she is in the actual anime. Kyoraku is one of my favorite characters, and I've rearely gotten to see him either. Hitsugaya is by far my favorite, and I'm always glad to see him around, but I do agree that we need to see more of the other characters. They've introduced to us over 26 interesting characters, but have only developed about 6 or 7 of them.

And back on my character equivalent, I do agree that Rin is indeed like yachiru. My only logic for choosing Jaken instead is that Jaken is almost always with Sesshomaru and Yachiru is almost always with Kenpachi. I suppose they are both alike in their own ways.

No, Tensa Zangetsu's hand guard is not a swastika. It is a mirror image of a swastika. The legs of the symbol open counter-clockwise rather than clockwise.

Interestingly enough, on Japanese maps, reverse swastikas are used to mark locations of Bhuddist temples.

That's extremely interesting, I had no idea. I've always thought that it was a swastika. Thank you very much for bringing that information to light, Rasler. You're very knowledgable of this show.

It is sad though that Wetern society has labeled them "evil" after hearing about them meaning "good luck." So many beautiful things have been twisted like that because of some of the things people have done.

Another proposed battle for you all:

Ikkaku vs. Renji

[Rasler]

A long while ago, there was a discuassion about how one would end up with stronger innate Hollow powers.

Following a similar logic to that which Ichigo's inner hollow used in episode 123, I would guess someone would develop stronger innate hollow powers as a result of exposure to the spirit of a powerful lingering soul (Hasn't moved on to Soul Society or been devoured by Hollows yet). Lingering souls represent attachment to to the living world, and it is from this that they eventually become Hollows.

A soul will usually turn into a Hollow unless there is intervention by a shinigami. In contrast, since Ichigo was alive, those exposed to him developed shinigami-esque powers.

Well, I have discovered a bit of evidence to support my reasoning. The show repeatedly shows Chad's relationship with his grandfather and how it shaped Chad's character. It is not beyond reason that Chad's grandfather would be lingering to watch over Chad. As such, exposure to a negative spirit influence might have led to the development of Chad's powers. Urahara has even stated that Chad's powers more closely resemble that of a Hollow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:R...-_Majestic.png


And I managed to dig up a bit more on Tensa Zangetsu's hand guard.
The reversed swastika is called manji (which is the kanji for "ban," meaning "full"). The cloth is replaced by a short chain with a broken link, similar to that of a soul that hasn't become a Hollow yet.

[Andromeda]

I had to wait to post until I saw Bleach tonight. Its a little disappointing that more fighting did not happen, but next week is going to be really awesome. Ichigo did a lot of running around as he usually did, but Chad is not dead. Though I already knew that he was not going to be dead. Either way, it was pretty nice when Ichigo did managed to get his resolve and fight Kenpachi. He only got one cut on him so far, but I know its going to be really bloody fight. So it is going to be pretty awesome to watch it next week with the two of them take swings at each other. But poor Ichigo got his Zanpukto cut in half, again. Though Kenpachi was saying something about wearing bells and his eye patch so that he handicapped himself for a better fight. He also said something about his Zanpukto, besides it not having a name. But something about how powerful he was and that he never kept it sealed. I'll have to rewatch the episode again to know what he is talking about.

Also got to see Aizen again, and the 4th squad captain. I don't know what is up with Aizen anymore. So I will be curious to see what becomes of it, knowing what I know. Either way, the blind captain is going off to fight now as well, but it seems like everyone has the idea that things are not well in the Soul Society. I can't wait for next episode, I'm so upset that I did not get to see more of the fight between the two of them. Oh well.

On to other matters now. Ikkaku and Renji, huh? Well from what I have seen Renji is a lot stronger than Ikkaku. Both of them were defeated by Ichigo, though Renji put up more of a fight and required Ichigo to pull out his full strength, unlike Ikkaku. I know both of them eventually learn their Bankais, and I have seen them. But I do not really know the depths of their powers and strengths at that point in the show. So from what I have seen thus far, Renji would win without a challenge. They both have ranged attacks, though Renji's got a longer reach than Ikkaku does. But also Renji is just plain stronger than Ikkaku and is probably closer to Ichigo's strength, though obviously beaten. So since Ichigo beat Ikkaku, Renji would beat him as well.

No one ever did answer mine, oh well.

Chad's powers are more akin to hollows, huh? Yeah I can see that, it is definitely a lot more different from Shinigami powers. But Karakura Town seems to be infected with Hollows on a frequent basis. So in combination with being exposed to all of the energy that Ichigo was releasing, the Hollows probably affect Chad as well. Is there a classification for the group that Quincy, Chad and Orihime fall into? They are neither Hollow or Shinigami, and obviously not dead and souls.

Seeing as we have been discussing the subject at some length about new villains and things in the RP there was a thought that I had. Seeing that there are Hollows and Shinigami, polar opposites in some respects. And I guess Vizard and Arrancar are sort of the middle of that road, if anything. You think it would be possible for a soul to become something else, that is not one of those? Just a thought, obviously if they really wanted to they could make up anything that they wanted if deemed necessary. Though it would probably get to be a little silly eventually.

[Evangel]

Post time!

Well, after watching Bleach on [AS] and reading Rommy's post, I am compelled to do a write up on Captain Kenpachi Zaraki's zanpaktou. In the show, Zaraki said that his zanpaktou was at its "true form" meaning Kenpachi has already reached Bankai. But, in order to reach Shikai even, a Shinigami would have to learn their sword's name. Apparently, Zaraki is an acception to this as he stated: "My zanpaktou doesn't have a name." or something like that. As with all things, there are anamolies. Ichigo and Kenpachi are anamolies in the Bleach universe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
As with an enemy for the RP, I suggest we use a Bleach version of a popular Castlevania boss: Legion. To explain, Legion is a collection of the dead in a single large body. The conciousnesses are one. Now, the movie Ghost Rider also used Legion but with souls, not the dead.

Not to be confused with the Hollow class Menos Grande. These souls do not become Hollows, as stated above with Ichigo and Zaraki, they are anamolies. The souls become to loathe the living and this loathing is the only similarity between them. They become a collection of evil, taking many different forms. Legion devours everything, Human souls, Shinigami, Hollows, etc...

[CLOUD]

On to other matters now. Ikkaku and Renji, huh? Well from what I have seen Renji is a lot stronger than Ikkaku. Both of them were defeated by Ichigo, though Renji put up more of a fight and required Ichigo to pull out his full strength, unlike Ikkaku. I know both of them eventually learn their Bankais, and I have seen them. But I do not really know the depths of their powers and strengths at that point in the show. So from what I have seen thus far, Renji would win without a challenge. They both have ranged attacks, though Renji's got a longer reach than Ikkaku does. But also Renji is just plain stronger than Ikkaku and is probably closer to Ichigo's strength, though obviously beaten. So since Ichigo beat Ikkaku, Renji would beat him as well.

I remember watching one episode called "Team Zarak'is Secret Story. The Lucky Men" or something like that. It shows what happens when Renji is first put in the 11th Squad & some events after Aizen joins the Hollow. ARABAI'S BEHAVIOUR WAS REALLY CONFUSING...

Spoiler: When Renji first went to the 11th division, he was begging ikkaku to teach him how to fight. He was whining actually. And he would lose each and every fight, showing the difference in their power. Later on, when Aizen left, Renji was literally begging him to take his place as captain of the 3rd, 5th or 9th divison, because at the time he was the only vice captain who could use Bankai, or one of the few ones. Ikaku didn't want, because that way he wouldn't be able to fight under Kenpachi anymore.

So, i think that his level is still higher than Renji's. Abarai might have quite a good bankai, but it hasn't helped him win that many battles & he has used it many times. It's big & it's easy to get a direct hit.

On the other hand, Maradame's Bankai is just a big blade, with another two smaller ones chained on it. When the dragon on it turns red, that's when his Bankai is at full strength. As Edorad ( an Arrancar ) said, it's a
huge mass of power, it's called the power that cuts anything.

So, i think that he could beat Renji. All he needs is to strike Renji's bankai, it's a big one-it's not that hard, on a part where he cannot use his ablilty of to take it apart with his reiatsu.

When it comes to Ikkaku's fight against Ichigo, well , that was more of a scene fight. Neither of them fought all out. If they were to use Bankai, Ichigo would also have trouble overpowering Ikkaku.

Another character equivalent. Rukia & Kagome.

-Both are the main female characters (more or less )
-The main heroes, Ichigo & Inuyasha have strong feelings for them, even if they end up fighting all the time.
-The story starts with both "giving" in a way powers to the main ones. Rukia makes Ichigo a Shinigami & Kagome frees Inuyasha from tne tree he is spellbind (i think...) on.
-They both have potential, but they don't show that much of their power & end up calling the heroes' names all the time...
-They both seem to be in danger all the time...ALL the time.

The biggest difference between them is that while Rukia is a Shinigami & knows a lot about Soul Society e.t.c., Kagome hardly knows anything about the era she went to & the troubles Inuyasha & the rest have to go through. She learns in progress. Although she knows everything about the real world, while Rukia learns in progress.

[Andromeda]

Well I have been meaning to post here soon but I got distracted. Either way, I don't remember if I mentioned it but Adult Swim has added Bleach to their weeknight block now. So teaming up with Inuyasha we get a solid hour and half of anime every night now. They started this up two weeks ago, I only noticed two weeks ago on Thursday when they were airing episode 4. They are on episode 10 now with the Don Konichi episode. But it was a lot of fun seeing these episodes that I have not seen in a while.

I guess Adult Swim finally decided that they had enough episodes to run during the week, since it is about 40 episodes now. They are going to be on 39 next week. That will run them for almost two months before needing to be recycled. But they are all good episodes that having them appear more often allows you to enjoy each more.

It was nice to see the Grand Fisher episodes which Ichigo fights that hollow. Ichigo is so much different from that point that he is not so blindly charging into things. But that is because he is now running from things more often. He knows who he is facing these days are far stronger than him and can kill him without much effort. So he is in a completely different league now.

On another front I picked up my first manga, which so happens to be Bleach Volume 1. So I am going to be reading that and they are up to volume 19 in the US translations. Which places them near the Arrancar Arc from what I saw on Wikipedia. So depending on how I buy the manga and watching the anime, I may or may not get to Arrancar before AS gets to Bounto. We'll see I guess, either way I know I will not be reading the Bounto Arc in the manga, so seeing Hollow Ichigo and the Vizards will be pretty cool.

The anime translation seems pretty faithful to the manga from what I have seen thus far. So that is pretty interesting from the point of view that I am going into. Does mean that I will need to find room for Manga now. ><

I would agree that Kagome and Rukia are fairly similiar. Though I would not say that Kagome is completely weak and helpless. She does show herself to be quite strong at points, though she does heavily rely on Inuyasha frequently. There is a difference there. Rukia is quite powerful as I understand it, which is different from Kagome. Who while powerful is not so much so that she can stand up to their foes. I think Rukia would actually be able to, even if she is not at the captain level that Ichigo is. Rukia the shinigami does not give off the air of helplessness that Kagome does.

[CLOUD]

I would agree that Kagome and Rukia are fairly similiar. Though I would not say that Kagome is completely weak and helpless. She does show herself to be quite strong at points, though she does heavily rely on Inuyasha frequently. There is a difference there. Rukia is quite powerful as I understand it, which is different from Kagome. Who while powerful is not so much so that she can stand up to their foes. I think Rukia would actually be able to, even if she is not at the captain level that Ichigo is. Rukia the shinigami does not give off the air of helplessness that Kagome does.

Well, seems that from what i said i think of Kagome being weak...Sorry about that.

Actually, i think that both of them are weak to some point, but in the end, Kagome could prove stronger than Rukia.

Rukia spends almost 100+ Bleach episodes powerless & all she does is shoot some low level kidou attacks, good for scratching a Hollow's back... Even when she regains her powers, she's not anything exceptional. One would think that she's 10 times stronger than the rest by being in the Kuchiki clan and all; she did have time to train. I think she's mediocre; i don't hate her, but i don't like her either. ( Orihime is better, she's funny..)

Kagome is supposed to be some reincarnation of Kikyo, or so i've heard in an episode. She had strong holy powers & as a result Kagome has strong powers as well; she shows that from the early episodes of the series. All she needs is to reveal those powers. Then, every single arrow she fires will be a blast.

Rukia will need more than that. At least she should train more, i dunno...

[Xeim]

Rukia spends almost 100+ Bleach episodes powerless & all she does is shoot some low level kidou attacks, good for scratching a Hollow's back... Even when she regains her powers, she's not anything exceptional. One would think that she's 10 times stronger than the rest by being in the Kuchiki clan and all; she did have time to train. I think she's mediocre; i don't hate her, but i don't like her either. ( Orihime is better, she's funny..)

There's a reason Rukia's like that. It's been explained within spoiler tags a couple times before.

Spoiler: Byakuya, being the happy wittle overprotective brother that he is, won't allow her to be a ranked member in her division. So she isn't allowed to train hard enough to become really strong, or if she's strong, show her true power in battle. he doesn't want to put her in danger.

This also makes her similar to Kagome, because Kagome is also fairly strong as you mentioned, but her abilities are rarely ever used in battle, as are Rukia's. So that brings us all the way back to the beginning doesn't it?

Um, lemme propose a new battle for the sake of moving along conversation.

Hanataro vs. Jinta

[CLOUD]

Hanataro VS Jinta....

I don't really know the level of Hanataro's fighting skills, but from what i've seen his zanpakuto is like those small knives doctors use in surgeries. I have no idea what it's released form looks like, but he once said that in it's tiny form it's empty of reiatsu. Other than that, Hanataro isn't the typical fighter to go all out in a duel.

On the other hand, Jinta doesn't seem exceptionally strong either, but what the hell; he's better than Hanataro. Ururu is amazing when fighting Hollows, while he is so & so. I don't really get why they have him there, other than to tease Ururu & Renji, but when it comes to being the Karakura Red, he's hilarious.

Back to our subject. I think he would win. He's more headstrong & isn't afraid to take part in a fight. His bat is BIG & he could knock Hanataro out by usyng a baseball swing right in his face.

[Rasler]

Hrm...

Depends, really. The fact that Hanataro would even be in a fight is ridiculous; The guy is as easily frightened as a small dog. Hanataro's shikai is that it becomes a giant scalpel that heals whatever wound it hits. After absorbing enough injuries, it releases them all in the form of a single large energy attack, looking similar to Ichigo's Zetsuga Tenshou. The hinging factor is whether or not Hanataro can use his zanpakuto on himself. I doubt Jinta, like Hanataro, is a character can take much damage.

[Andromeda]

I don't know about that, I had to look up Jinta to know who he was. I've at least seen him fight as opposed to Hanataro who I've never seen fight before. He just has healed people from what I have seen. Though being a shinigami means he would have a Zanpakuto even if he never needs it for his duties. I guess the real question would be if Jinta could harm a shinigami. As from Hollows, the Zanpakuto is about the only other thing that they said can hurt a shinigami. However, I find that doubtful. They can probably be injured, just not killed. But even that I don't know for sure. I just know during Ichigo's training with Urahara he was going to stop worrying about Benihime since he did not think it was a Zanpakuto and thus not going to hurt him. But I figure that if there was spirit energy involved just about anything could hurt a shinigami.

Given that I would imagine that Jinta could probably hurt Hanataro, but other than that I do not know if Jinta would be able to do much to Hanataro. Jinta seems to be able to fight better than Hanataro, who only heals. And with a Zanpakuto that only heals until the Shikai it would be difficult to fight. I would find that Hanataro probably who lose because of type of person he seems to be. I don't even know if he has the will to fight.

On to Kagome and Rukia again. Kagome actually uses her powers on a frequent basis, even if they do not hit the target or get block. She is pretty head strong and quick to pick up the bow at times, for often being so meak in appearance and demeanor. Rukia probably would to, pick up her sword quickly when they is something wrong. But you actually see Kagome doing things, but you also see her getting kidnapped by the villain of the week as well. Which is something that Rukia does not do that often. But getting put in a cell for half of the show makes it difficult to get kidnapped.

[CLOUD]

About the kids, Jinta & Ururu, even about Tessai, does anyone know what they are & why they're living with Kisuke?

I don't remember seeing anywhere any sort of explaination about their presence & role in the series, or even about their powers. They say that Ururu has anti-Hollow powers, she goes bersek when she sees one, but Jinta hasn't shown that much & Tessai seems & is actually so strong that both kids fear him.

I hate it when they leave so many things to be blown by the wind & we get to think of crazy scenarios that prove to be wrong every time.

[Rasler]

In all probability, they're mod-souls created by Urahara. After all, Urahara is confirmed to have the knowledge and capability to create mod-souls. He created the mod-souls Claude, Nova, and Lilin.

-edit-
Found a good picture of Inner Hollow Ichigo from one of the openings.

[CLOUD]

That's probably it. The weird thing with modilied souls though is that they have so different powers. No matter how strong they seem though, they end up quite flat in the end. They might be able to deal with weak hollows, but that is all.

About Ichigo's Hollow, it comes out on episode 125.

Spoiler: Ichigo is training with the Vizard to manage to supress his inner hollow. In a fight against it, with Zangetsu gone, Ichigo isn't winning at first, so his outer appearance changes to Hollow. He's got claws, a tail, the whole thing.

The only actual Hollow i've seen holding a Bankai, other the arrancar that is.


It's in the first part of episode 125.

Here ( for whoever doesn't have the ep):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC9iyLjmuoY

Ther was also a longer one, but this has better resolution

[Andromeda]

Well they do not have to explain everything to us. One of things that makes it interesting is when not everything is explained. You accept things for how they are supposed to be without reason, because that was the way they always were. But it also depends on how important they are to the story. If they have any actual part aside from comedy relief then they will be taken seriously eventually from a story stand point. And at that point they will be given a little more depth.

However, all of the Shinigami are dead and we have no idea what their pasts were like. Most of them we do not even know about their time before where they are at now. There are a few, but overall most of them are complete blanks. While you still accept them for who they are and that they are going to be there regardless. Spectulation is the only thing that we can do with them.

But if you want theories, the children could be people that he brought with him from the Soul Society. Mod-souls would probably be the closest answer. Though they do not have to necessarily be that. They could just be something else that he was researching. Seeing that they have strange powers, it is unlikely that they are Shinigamis, but they do owe something to Urahara for staying around at his shop and help him out.

[Victoria]

I'm joining now, since I caught up with the anime. =P
Just finished watching 131 earlier. I could catch up with the manga, but I'd rather watch it as anime, heh. I'm more of an anime person.

I would have joined sooner if I was always caught up, haha.
As I was catching up, I thought of an awesome and unique character.

I hope you don't mind a future Vizard joining the RP, lol.

You'll see what I mean when I put up the profile.

As for the kids... I think they're probably mod souls or something to that degree.

[Lady Rika]

Hey everybody, im sorry I haven't posted in awhile but I have some negitive news. I am going to my dad's for the rest of July against my will and I might not be able to post but a couple of time's a week. But I will post, and i'll get all my roleplay bussiness done as fast as I can because I don't get significant Internet access their.

Also I must say that I will be gone to the mountians for a few days so don't exspect a post soon. I am so sorry that it has to be this way but I promise you that I will remain as active as I can. Especially because I made a commitment to this club and everybody in it.^^

I'll talk to you all soon^^
~*Lady Rika*~

[emoloz]

Hi is it ok if i join? Bleach is one of the best animes on at the moment.

[Andromeda]

I've been waiting to post about Saturday's episode of Bleach since well Saturday. It was finally the fight I had been waiting for, Kenpachi and Ichigo really going at it. And even more interesting was that White Ichigo or the hollow part of him showed up in his mind. So they are already doing foreshadowing. And the hollow mask in Ichigo's aura, I saw that. It is definitely clearly his mask.

I remember someone bringing up that Kenpachi had a face or mask in his aura as well, which I saw. I'm not too sure if it really is a hollow mask, but it does have a little bit of a similiarity. Though Yaruchi also had a face in her aura as well when she got angry at the special ops guy that game to report to her. It does leave you with some questions.

The fight was pretty cool to watch though, Ichigo just cuts up Kenpachi and he just takes it all. And then he has even more power before the eye patch is absorbing spirit energy. Kenpachi really got some surprises with him. The way Kenpachi fights too is pretty interesting. He grabs Ichigo's sword a few times I think, even though it cuts him at that point. He really does not care about it.

Then there is hollow Ichigo, he fights really strangely. He swings the sword around, which is a completely different style from Ichigo who is more in your face and striking. I hope he gets some ideas on new fighting styles from watching him. Because it would switch things up a little bit in a fight if he suddenly fought in a completely different way. Though that does already happen when the hollow takes over.

And Shadow, whenever Xeim stops by I imagine that you will be accepted into the join. Though as you already know it is best to refrain from posting until you are a member.