Why the hate against dubs?

[01habbo]

Ok so whenever I go into a forum about Anime or discussion, I nearly always see that people think the Anime is so much better in Japanese than in English. So I began thinking why?

It's true that at times that the dubs cut out some of the story, which is why people prefer Japanese as it doesn't cut out anything, a fair point to hate dubs. If this was the only reason then I would perfectly understand, but this next reason on why people hate dubs is what confuses me.

Some say that the voice acting is so much better in Japanese. How come? Surely you can't tell what the voice acting is like in Japanese since you don't understand the language and are just reading a bunch of text at the bottom of the screen. Surely the only people that can actually fairly criticise both English and Japanese is those who understand both languages and are fluent. Why do people seem to be so convinced that the Japanese voice acting is so much better? Is it because that because we don't understand it and actually like listening it so then we have a bias opinion that it is better than the English that we hearon a day to day basis?

Thoughts?

[seanb]

Perhaps people just want it as less modified as possible, and think that an english voice actor interpreting the script may miss out on some of the original japanese feeling...

I would also imagine people get a boost out of being able to declare they don't need dubs to watch an anime....

I'm not fussy, I will watch either format.

[01habbo]

Well yeah sure I can see that part of the argument, that important bits of the story can be cut out and that companies like 4Kids can go too far in which they cut out so much that some things don't make sense.

I can't imagine that can be much of an achievement, there was a point already presented in this forum that you are basically reading subs at the bottom of the screen and it doesn't matter how fast of a reader you are, you do have to cast your eyes away from part of the screen to actually read it and you will miss something. Now if someone told me that they were English and can perfectly understand the Anime in Japanese then that's more of an achievement.

[Judge Magistrate]

Perhaps people just want it as less modified as possible, and think that an english voice actor interpreting the script may miss out on some of the original japanese feeling...

I would also imagine people get a boost out of being able to declare they don't need dubs to watch an anime....

I'm not fussy, I will watch either format.

That's exactly what I think. I will watch either format, but I prefer the original Japenese adaptation.

[Freya]

I prefer the original as well, mostly due to the fact that all dubs (I watched them in many many maaaaany languages ^^") sound like they PLAYED it. It doesn't sound naturally, like it does when you listen to it in the japanese dubs. Especially the pronunciation of the names... *shudders* Really, some English/French/whatever voice actors just can't pronounce the names of Japanese people - I watched "A Kite" yesterday and the way they said "Sawa" always sounded like "Saba" (I really thought it was her name at the beginning! Oo").

Also, all this "KYAAAAA"-stuff in Anime doesn't sound naturally outside Japan, which is mostly due to Japanese women sounding so overly cute all the time. (At least it seems so when they act...) When a girl starts to cry in an Anime, it sounds stupid in every language (except Japanese). I really can't explain why it sounds so stupid to me, but it does... every time...

But I really don't have a problem with watching dubs. I watched Ojamajo DoReMi in French already and it's as cute as the original, but I think they even changed the names ^^"

Oh and most of the times when they translate an opening of an Anime, it sounds AWESOME. Listen to English, French and German openings - they're really not that bad at all! ^^

[Aerif]

I completely agree with everything Freya has said.

The cultural differences between Japan and the Western world make dubbed anime sound awful most of the time. Higher pitched voices sound more natural in Japan but in the West most women have deeper voices, which makes some things seem unnatural when translated, like emotional outbursts.

Also whenever someone expresses shock or disgust at something in Japanese it just sounds absolutely ridiculous when a Western actor tries to imitate the outburst in English.

[Halie]

To be honest I feel the exact opposite, I hate watching original Japanese versions. I only like to watch English dubs. I don't like subtitles, I'd much rather turn all my attention towards the actual animation than look at subtitles. I don't think the Japanese voice acting is better at all, to me it's noise because I don't speak Japanese. I don't mean that as ignorance, but as you said, how can one think it's better if they don't understand it?

[dracolmalfoy]

Some dubs are pretty good but mostly they are aren't very good at all. There always seems to be more emotion in the voices of the orginal actors compared to the dubs. At least thats how it seems to me.

[01habbo]

I prefer the original as well, mostly due to the fact that all dubs (I watched them in many many maaaaany languages ^^") sound like they PLAYED it. It doesn't sound naturally, like it does when you listen to it in the japanese dubs. Especially the pronunciation of the names... *shudders* Really, some English/French/whatever voice actors just can't pronounce the names of Japanese people - I watched "A Kite" yesterday and the way they said "Sawa" always sounded like "Saba" (I really thought it was her name at the beginning! Oo").

Also, all this "KYAAAAA"-stuff in Anime doesn't sound naturally outside Japan, which is mostly due to Japanese women sounding so overly cute all the time. (At least it seems so when they act...) When a girl starts to cry in an Anime, it sounds stupid in every language (except Japanese). I really can't explain why it sounds so stupid to me, but it does... every time...

But I really don't have a problem with watching dubs. I watched Ojamajo DoReMi in French already and it's as cute as the original, but I think they even changed the names ^^"

Oh and most of the times when they translate an opening of an Anime, it sounds AWESOME. Listen to English, French and German openings - they're really not that bad at all! ^^

So is it because the English dub tries to mimic the Japanese which makes them sound so bad and out of place? For example Clannad in the english dub was cringe worthy, due to the fact they were imitating the japanese. I could understand how that would irritate people but however if a dub is not done to try and mimic the Japanese and instead done in the western style and sounds normal would that be better? Or is that just as cringe worthy? Where do you draw the line where you think that is just as good as the Japanese dub?

I would like to put forward another point, perhaps as the Japanese language is beautiful and enjoyable to listen to, that we are unintentionally bias towards the japanese language itself? I've seen many critisms against the Durarara anime for example which I thought were unfair and were bias towards the japanese language.

[Xanatos]

I prefer my anime to be subbed, no real reason, I guess I got used to it, also, all of my DvD-s are subbed so no real choice there. I don't have anything against dubs, in fact I love German dubs, they really put effort into it, even more with music.

What I hate about original though, is when characters try to say something in English which is often enough, it sounds goddamn awful.

[Furore]

For me it's the sound of the voices. I *LOVE* some dubs as the voices suit the characters and it means less reading for me, but I find 9 times in 10 some of the English voices really irritate me and in some cases ruin the entire anime. Great Teacher Onizuka is a prime example - In Japanese it is one of my favourite series'. In English I can't watch two episodes without putting something else on. Mezzo DSA's dubbing on the other hand is superb.

[Freya]

I could understand how that would irritate people but however if a dub is not done to try and mimic the Japanese and instead done in the western style and sounds normal would that be better? Or is that just as cringe worthy? Where do you draw the line where you think that is just as good as the Japanese dub?

Well, there are some dubs in which the characters indeed have western names. DoReMi in French, for example. They changed the names so that it's easier for the kids (and probably also for the voice actors) to pronounce them. I think that's a pretty good idea, after all. When they mimic the Japanese and TRY to pronounce the names, it sounds stupid most of the times. Most voice actors don't seem to know much about the Japanese language. (I've noticed, for example, that many many fans of Naruto can't pronounce "Sakura" in the right way. They pronounce it "SakUra" instead of "Sak/ra". The "u" is a kind of weak vocal in Japanese... at least that's what I heard.)
THAT is what makes anime dubs bad for me. If they change the names completely, it's okay. At least for me.

As for "as good as Japanese dub"... I don't think English dubs can ever be as good as the Japanese dubs, mostly because anime are somehow based on Japanese, but some aren't that bad at all.
I must admit, though, that I haven't watched any anime in both languages. I tend to not re-watch series. I just watched the first couple episodes of Death Note in both languages once, but I don't remember if the Japanese dub was THAT much better.

I don't have anything against dubs, in fact I love German dubs, they really put effort into it, even more with music.

Agreed! =D I listened to some German songs from animes and I really liked them. They sound pretty good and some even sound like the Japanese version, just the language is different. ^^
But it seems to me that lately they just use the Japanese songs in many animes. :/

[Lucid]

I prefer the original Japanese because it sounds better to me. Whenever I watch dubs, most of the voices sound so bad. It's like that can't even afford to hire GOOD voice actors. When I watch an American animation like Toy Story or something, the voice actors sound like they're actually trying. The voice actors for dubbed anime just sound so fake like they don't even really care. It's especially annoying in dramatic scenes because they tend to over act...

Plus, a lot of the anime I like hasn't even been dubbed yet so I can only watch the original Japanese anyway.

I did like some of the old dubs from the 80s though.

[SSJ4 Goku]

I'm a much bigger dub supporter than a lot of other people I know (and a lot of other people in this thread, it seems). Don't get me wrong; I love watching anime in its original language, too, and there are plenty of shows I think have superior voice work in the Japanese than in English (the above example of GTO is a good one). HOWEVER, I think there are a lot of quality dubs that can rival their Japanese counterparts as far as the actual acting/emoting is concerned, particularly with shows that were dubbed in the late 90s/early 2000s. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, FLCL, and Hellsing (and the Hellsing OVAs, for that matter) are prime examples of this (the cast of FLCL's English dub is so close to its Japanese equivalent it's just downright eerie in my opinion). I think the Death Note dub was a good example of something more recent that came out well, too (and, to a lesser extent, Code Geass and FMA has pretty decent dubs as well, at least in my opinion).

As others have mentioned in the thread, I think people tend to hate on dubs because they understand the language and can be more critical of an English performance than they can a Japanese performance. Even with several years of Japanese under my belt, I wouldn't feel properly qualified to critique the nuances of any given performance in an anime.

Of course, there's a very valid argument to be made in the "purist" vein. Namely, if we can treat international films and operas as "works of art" that don't require (vocal) English translations, than anime shouldn't either, and I'm fine with that argument.

I think overall I'm pretty down the middle with how much I watch subbed and how much I watch dubbed, but I definitely wouldn't rule out a show's dub on the point-blank assumption that the Japanese would automatically be better. All I can say is give them a chance; they're not all disappointing!

[ZantetsukeN]

I am going to go ahead and say that I prefer to watch all my anime subbed rather than dubbed. Although, some dubs really aren't that bad, but there are some which are just plain awful.

One example I will use as a good dub is Death Note. Sure there are a few parts where it is a bit cringe worthy, but overall it is one of the best dubs out there. The voices for Light and L are some of the best dubs in anime. They left all the emotion, suspense of the story etc in with the voices. That is a good dub.

As for bad dubs, one dub springs to mind immediately: Lucky Star.
For those who have watched LS before, to watch it in Japanese makes it funnier, cuter, just all round more fun to watch. The English dub is boring, not funny (although I have to say, the 'Tomotei/Bitchin scene is funny), they get the names wrong (for example, they don't say 'Kagami', but 'Kar-gami'). Overall, I cannot stand watching LS in English.

Like I said there are good dubs, but many of them are few and far between for me. The thing that really bothers me are getting names wrong, or saying them weirdly, in the dub.

[Michael Swayne]

The thing about English-dubbing, is that the anime is already made when the voice actors get it. They have to try to get the production company's translation to fit the voice-flaps (what is otherwise known as the character's mouth). I find it very annoying when the voices aren't matched up well with the mouth movements.

Also, when the western production companies get the anime to be voiced, they have to re-write about 60-70% of each episode/movie. This is to make the western audience understand it more. The sense of humor of the Chinese (I would generalize into all of Asia, but I don't want to) is very different than that of an American audience. Americans like punchline jokes, but the Chinese find little subtleties are hilarious. They find that the play on words (example: the number 4 and the word for death are the same- se) to be funnier than some person being kicked in the groin.

One more thing, and this ties into the re-writing. Some people find that a lot can be lost in translation. These people are mainly the bilingual audience.

As for me, whether it is subbed or dubbed, I like it all.

[Horhay]

Some say that the voice acting is so much better in Japanese. How come? Surely you can't tell what the voice acting is like in Japanese since you don't understand the language and are just reading a bunch of text at the bottom of the screen.

Body language and tone of voice is universal, despite language barriers. We listen to the voice while we read the subs, so it's not like we're just reading the text at the bottom of the screen.


The voice actors for Cowboy Bebop and Bleach did a pretty good job, but I feel that, for a lot of anime, they could do better with the dubs. Ranma 1/2 is a good example. Nothing beats the original, as they say (and I believe).

I also prefer more literal translations when it comes to my foreign film, so I prefer subs. They can more literally translate the dialogue when subbing than dubbing. For example:

If anyone here has listened to the dubbed version of Ranma 1/2, you'll notice the dubbed and subbed versions still give the same messages as one another, but the translations can be very different. This is due to the speed at which Japanese and Americans talk, with the former being able to fit more dialogue in a shorter amount of time than the latter when speaking normally. They have to edit the translations so the voice actors can keep in synch with the scene. People who sub don't have to worry about that as much, since viewers can read faster than the voice actors can say their lines.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[Diyala]

I do prefer the original one as well coz I believe things will seem more real with Japanese voices not coz I love the language more than I do with English , but when watching an anime that takes place in Japan with all this Japanese life style, clothes , food and architecture, it's natural that I would prefer the Japanese version coz English would completely seem outlandish then ! on the contrary , I couldn’t stand watching some animes that happen in the western culture with Japanese voices like Emma or Romeo and Juliet coz simply western culture doesn't fit on Japanese voices . So it's not about how much we like the two languages more than about how much we tend to have things as real as they are!

[Angantyr]

Because 98% of the time dubs are god awful ear rape and they seem to find it impossible to hire more voice actors. Same voice everywhere which doesn't even suit the roles. Not to mention there are groups subbing stuff as soon as it airs in Japan..

You think Rie Kugimiya has too many roles? She has NOTHING on all the same voice actors Bandai or what ever uses. The type casting is horrid, I seriously do not get why people defend dubs so much? Oh reading is hard right? Learn Japanese then.