A lack of confrontation on TFF

[nix]

Alternative arguments are shut down as soon as they arise - within seconds in fact. I've tried to defend mine, but being outnumbered by a mob does not make it very fun.

Its called going off topic and yes you will get shot down frequently for doing it, especially when you go into a thread about fav boob types and start talking about your feelings and other gay shit.

I agree with everything Pete said, and cliques???? Think your a bit paranoid there pal. Its called posting on the same forum for 8 years and were more often than not at each others throats

If you would like some advice in terms of surviving here.. Grow some balls

[Alpha]

*sigh* seriously?

Oh, boo ****ing hoo. You know, I don't have a clique problem or try to say stuff to fit in with the rest of the people. I speak what I feel and that's something I wouldn't say for a lot of people on this forum. And it shows. If you took a poll asking who liked me and who didn't you might get 3 or 4 people. In fact, there is one in the TFF member elimination thread. So when I call you gay, I mean you are being gay.

Good, I respect that, I do, and I'm sure many others do too. But calling me or my argument gay? No respect for that. And all I did was say what I felt, and I don't see why that needs to be criticised for anyone. I don't recall criticising you.

I's say it was probably possible I would've won some "respect points" for just going along with the flow, but I didn't because I didn't agree with the thread. Sure I could've ignored it and we could all have got on with our days, but I decided to be a little outspoken and make a single post about how I didn't really agree with it. Sounds fair to me, and it probably made it more interesting. It only developed into more posts as it was challenged by not one person, but by many. Which actually made it kind of fun, so I'm not complaining, but I am saying that a lot of people, especially new members, would feel a little intimidated by that. I'm just a bit of an arrogant jerk in my opinion, and decided to continue to voice it. Someone else may have just felt overcome by that and given in. So confrontation = good, because it is fun, but there really isn't a too healthy climate for it, IMO.

I think you should get off your high horse and quit complaining that you're such a ****ing crybaby that you feel hurt when people disagree with you. There were plenty of people in the Breast Thread that presented you with arguements so that all I had to do was walk in the thread and hit you where it hurts, which I'm surprised you took so seriously in the first place.

Yeah I know it is a light-hearted thread, of course it is, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, and it doesn't mean that I can't say that. Crybaby? Who the hell am I crying to? I'm just saying, in my usual style, an opinion. In this case, it is that large groups of prominent (and dare I say angry?) members can act to stifle some discussion, even if it's only by creating an intimidating atmosphere. Once again, I'm not complaining; I seek debate and arguments, but not comments such as yours where I'm called gay for very little reason.

I actually agree with what Meier and others are saying in this thread, but the Breast Thread was not it. I admire you more than I admire a lot of other people on the forums, Alpha. Considering the fact that you actually have a personality when compared with most members, I will take it. And I think you'll find that when I post I often do it for the sake of comedy. Whether someone else laughs, or just myself. What would you do if your best friend called you gay while you were chillin out playing videogames? Would you run back to your diary and write that you don't fit in?

I admire you too, Che. I just ask that you consider toning it down a little bit in order to give room for discussion. Maybe I was the only one who thought my way in the Breast Thread, in fact I probably was/am. So, yeah, maybe it's not the best example. But if you agree that there is a lack of confrontation, and I decided to confront, is something better for it? If so, why is my argument 'gay'?

Confrontation is good, but not all the time. I think the reason why most people are uncomfortable expressing their opinion is because they fear being put down because of it. Sure, you say get "thicker skin," but it is easier said than done.

...

Sure, there will be different opinions and disagreements. I understand that. That's life. The problem now is that they are taken too seriously and often misunderstood. Accept it for what it is; an opinion. If someone quotes you or responds to you with a well though out and supported argument, then that obviously shows he or she values what was said. It is in good taste that you respond back.

Thanks. I generally don't fear being put down for my views, I'm always ready to defend them, or else I wouldn't have said them. However, I can see how others would be, "because they fear of being put down because of it".

Its called going off topic and yes you will get shot down frequently for doing it, especially when you go into a thread about fav boob types and start talking about your feelings and other gay shit.

Meh, maybe off topic, but probably more interesting than if I had just made an ordinary post. It's not like anyone (i.e. you, originally) had to respond to it, so I suppose I should thank you for that

But what is it with calling things 'gay' around here? [OPINION] I don't really like that. [/OPINION]

I agree with everything Pete said, and cliques???? Think your a bit paranoid there pal. Its called posting on the same forum for 8 years and were more often than not at each others throats

Fair enough, but those groups that form are at least clique-esque, and can be a little intimidating to newcomers, possibly to the effect of stifling some confrontation. I'd argue that to take on one of your friends would be to take on all of your friends, which is a clique-like phenomenon.

If you would like some advice in terms of surviving here.. Grow some balls

Thanks, but I think that by saying what ever I feel to whomever I feel is indicative that I have a nice pair already. And I take things on the chin; I'm always open to new acquaintances and friends, even if I don't agree with their opinions, that doesn't mean I don't or can't like them. I don't agree with Silver on many things, but we still talk about music and work and all sorts.

[nix]

Meh, maybe off topic, but probably more interesting than if I had just made an ordinary post. It's not like anyone (i.e. you, originally) had to respond to it, so I suppose I should thank you for that

But what is it with calling things 'gay' around here? [OPINION] I don't really like that. [/OPINION]

I didn’t care that you went off topic, I just hung you for making a stupid post implying people shouldn't be opinionated.. Wait for it

Fair enough, but those groups that form are at least clique-esque, and can be a little intimidating to newcomers, possibly to the effect of stifling some confrontation. I'd argue that to take on one of your friends would be to take on all of your friends, which is a clique-like phenomenon.

You go to any forum that’s been around as long as this one and you will get that, I myself don’t care for how long the poster has been here, if you say something stupid ill point it out and most likely mock you

Thanks, but I think that by saying what ever I feel to whomever I feel.

Yet here you are complaining about others doing the same? Make up your mind, Seriously!

Also your initial post in the breast thread was complaining that people had a preference (opinion) on their type of woman, and here you are moaning about people scoffing at your opinions? Contradict much ?

And your being paranoid about this whole “clique” thing, it just happens in forums when you make a stupid post you will most likely get a verbal flailing, which you did


It was a stupid post, and this whole incident is just full of contradictions O_O

[RagnaToad]

Also your initial post in the breast thread was complaining that people had a preference (opinion) on their type of woman, and here you are moaning about people scoffing at your opinions? Contradict much ?

As much as I like you, Alpha, I'm totally with Nix on this one.

Cf. my post in the breast thread saying 'Anyone can have an opinion as long as someone likes a fat chick'.

[Meier Link]

Actually I am going to side with Alpha on this one, his initial post wasn't that he was offended by the thread in general but it was that some one could take it offensively. In turn he was responded to in a negative way and he stood his ground for that I am proud of Alpha.

What he did in that thread shows what confrontation can do for a forum. It shows not only the positive aspects but also the negative aspects. I was actually kind of shocked to see some of the responces to his concerns. Flaming and flaimbating him by calling him "gay" and other shit like that; really is that what we have reduced our selves to because someone states an opinion. This is the kind of negative confrontation that kills threads and also make the person that said crap like that out to be an ass and it could also be taken very offensivly. I am honestly suprised there where no warnings issued for comments like that.

Alpha for all purposes was trying to carry on legitimant debate through an opinionated stance. And was called more things then needed for his open opinion on the matter.

Atleast some one here was willing to stand up and go against the grain on a general topic and it actually made for a decent read, which is something TFF is really lacking.

I give props to Alpha for his posts in the breast threads and it shows part of the reason I nominated him for the next MotM.

As for the cluiqes thing I don't agree with it but there was a certain amount of people that did not want to hear his opinion and wanted to shut him up before he could even clarify on his point. That was retarted IMO.

There can be decent amount of debate on a subject with out resorting to childish name calling. No one is going to win favor by throwing sticks and stones.

As a last note I must give Che some props; until I saw your post in here I thought you where a useless spammer because alot of the posts I have seen you make but you actually had some valid points and made a decent post in here and I learned a little about why you post the way you do. Kuddos.

I am all about confrentation in this forum, as long as it is in a positive aspect but when it heads to the other end of the spectrum it turns to offensive and gang raping someone for stating their opinion on the subject at hand makes the people no better then all of the other conformists here at TFF.

I say hear someone out and read their posts before jumping on the bull shit band wagon.

I don't think Alpha is crying and whining in any way, I think he was expresing his self through a forum by making legitament post Via tha avalible resources. If anything he is standing up for his self and for that he has my respect.

Its called posting on the same forum for 8 years and were more often than not at each others throats

I must admit this is true and have quoted it for that alone.

[nix]

Actually I am going to side with Alpha on this one, his initial post wasn't that he was offended by the thread in general but it was that some one could take it offensively.

Is it just me, or it this borderline offensive?

And the thread was about breast preference, it didnt require objection and thats why he got his head bit off by the majority.

I myself just found it silly he was offended, would you be offended at an intelligent person, being mentally attracted to another intelligent person over a stupid one ?

[Meier Link]

And the thread was about breast preference, it didnt require objection and thats why he got his head bit off by the majority.

Is a question really an objection? It was a question simply put and people read to much into it and made a bigger deal than what it was. If you read it for what it is then it is simpley a question. And in turn he still responded to the thread in general. Many people over looked this fact and jumped the gun with out truely reading his post to it's extent.

I myself just found it silly he was offended, would you be offended at an intelligent person, being mentally attracted to another intelligent person over a stupid one ?

Did I miss something where Alpha come out and said " I am offended, shut this thread down"? I think not or the thread would of been shut down for that reason alone. And to help aid my point I will quote the same quote you just used. Reread it again.

Originally Posted by Meier Link
Actually I am going to side with Alpha on this one, his initial post wasn't that he was offended by the thread in general but it was that some one could take it offensively.

[Pete]

I think we're all letting this get slightly out of control.

On one hand, Alpha was bringing up a good point, when he mentioned fat people, and if society's emphasis on slimmer people caused any issues. However, until this post came about, we were all just enjoying talking about what we like when it comes to the female form. On one hand, it could be viewed as misogynistic, but for the most part we were all being relatively respectful and civil. It wasn't like we were going about naming people on TFF and saying how so and so is hot, and someone else is busted. It wasn't anything like that, but I can see how someone MIGHT get offended. It was particularly weird that it was a straight male, especially when other females were actively posting.

I'm not saying that anyone was right or wrong in what was said, but you can see how it can be interpreted. And I also respect Alpha for holding his ground and doing it in a classy manner. We might not see eye to eye on things, but I can respect your opinion and the fact that you didn't lash out or go for low blows when outnumbered.

[Alpha]

Also your initial post in the breast thread was complaining that people had a preference (opinion) on their type of woman, and here you are moaning about people scoffing at your opinions? Contradict much ?

I can see the 'contradiction', it was that I was speaking an opinion about speaking opinions. I'm finding this difficult to explain, but suffice to say that I was trying to emphasise a 'social responsibility' of an opinion, if you will. I think some expressions of opinion can have negative ramifications, sort of (and this is very loose) like how racists have a right to speak, but probably shouldn't. I'm not saying this is like that, so I could do with a better example.

Sure I'm a straight male, but I also call myself a feminist (a 'difference feminist' to be precise), and that is not actually incompatible with being male, not at all.

I respect everyone's right to an opinion, of course, because I hold my own to heart and so should everyone. But in relation to a lack of confrontation on this site, some of what went down could put some people off from voicing an opinion. I'm just vocal with these sorts of things, but not everyone is, and there's a line between a respectful disagreement and saying a person or an argument is "gay". As Azuteor said:

It is in good taste that you respond back.

And Pete is probably right, this may have been taken too far. I don't know who's fault that is, but it sure made something fun.

[Sinister]

I'm sorry, in advance, for intruding myself into what I perceive as a high-stakes game of mental chess. lmao... But I have a question...

I responded in the melon thread that I thought a breast thread was against our code of decency. From the tone of what was said, I was under the impression they meant a thread in which they expected female-members to post pictures...or where they could post pictures.

So, anyway this question is directed at Alpha.

I understand that you label yourself a feminist, which is fine. In fact, it's good to see others take up a cause that isn't directly, by gender, their own. It shows empathy and character. Whereas I would never style myself as a feminist, I respect the boundaries of decent behavior and fair treatment between sexes.

You've already stirred up quite a havoc over the subject. (which I really have to thank you for, it was getting slightly boring, recently) But by your statements, what you are saying is that it is immature, harmful and/or disrespectful to remark as to certain unique physical traits of the female form in appreciation and to delineate opinions over these traits and that we should, by admission of our own maturity and respect for females, refrain from such talk? In appreciation, you understand, not in derogatory terms. Such appreciation can extend to the artistic, from an artist's nude renderings to base hormonal appeal. If you insist all of this is immature and contemptible...

If this is so, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to risk calling you misguided and ingenuous. Also, that your opinion could possibly make the female form a taboo subject could be quite damaging to our society, from a psychological point of reference. All of this repression of natural feelings tends not to be good to the human psyche. As others have pointed out, this denial could also stem from your own repression of these feelings. Not only that...but I would like to make you aware that your opinion could be perceived as...potentially offensive, harmful and immature.

-Sin

[Che]

I just want to point out that me calling Alpha gay wasnt as shallow as you might think. I meant to say it in a way that I would also say it to my best friend. Like if my friend said "i like the color pink", I would respond with "i always knew you were gay. I took a risk because thats how I am. I'm very sarcastic and always looking to capitalize on a joke. When I posted it I didn't think itd be taken to heart so I apologize.

The problem is this forum has a lot of young people who dont know anything but how to jump on bandwagons yet. we need more diversity in their posts

edit:sorry for this post being so awkward, im on my iphone. i was just reading through the posts and they felt so angry. while i dont want every post to be just overloaded with cute cuddly kindness, this whole deal with the breast thread kinda blew up over something little.

[Alpha]

I understand that you label yourself a feminist, which is fine. In fact, it's good to see others take up a cause that isn't directly, by gender, their own. It shows empathy and character. Whereas I would never style myself as a feminist, I respect the boundaries of decent behavior and fair treatment between sexes.

But by your statements, what you are saying is that it is immature, harmful and/or disrespectful to remark as to certain unique physical traits of the female form in appreciation and to delineate opinions over these traits. And that we should, by admission of our own maturity and respect for females, refrain from such talk? In appreciation, you understand, not in derogatory terms. Such appreciation can extend to the artistic, from an artist's nude renderings to base hormonal appeal. If you insist all of this is immature and contemptuous...

If this is so, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to risk calling you misguided and ingenuous. Not only that...but I declare that your opinion could be perceived as...potentially offensive.

This is possibly not the place for this, seeing as it really has nothing to do with a lack of confrontation. I was gonna PM you or something, but then it would appear as if I didn't respond. So I'll do it here.

Immature? No. There is nothing immature about having 'physical preferences'. In fact, that can be considered fairly normal. My concern is over expression of these.

Harmful? Potentially, when they are expressed. I liken it to a glossy magazine (aimed at men, but ones with female target audiences can often be lumped in with this), where women are portrayed as 'things' to be looked at, and their appearance discussed. This is objectification, and I don't believe anyone who considers themself a feminist would agree with this. In a way, and I feel it is quite evident, the thread participates in that. That is what I meant when I said "Granted, the media does this to a certain extent, but I don't think we need to add to it." (or something like that, cbf quoting). Objectification is harmful to perceptions of women, who are less respected for intellectual/moral/personality/etc. attributes. Not everyone or every media which participates in this is doing this, I understand that. However, it very often happens without the participant explicitly aware of it. Well, that's how I (and some feminists I've read) perceive this. You may not agree, and that's fine. But I feel I could state my opinion on it, so I did.

Disrespectful? Yes and no. It's not disrespectful to say you think someone looks nice. In fact, that's a nice thing to do. It can be disrespectful to state or imply that others do not look nice. Comments along the lines of "no fat chicks" does have this effect, whether or not you agree is your own opinion. It is also disrespectful to women generally to select attributes that they should be "aiming" for. Slim figures, etc, are the usual things. Again, not everyone here or anywhere directly participates in this. But how often have you seen an overweight woman on a magazine such as Cosmopolitan? Is it plausible to suggest that it can be perceived that women "should" look like such people, just through actions such as what type of woman is regularly (or always) on the cover of "fashion" magazines?

One may perceive their comments as being appreciative of females. Others may perceive it as objectification, and a way of "deciding" what is and what is not "beautiful". It is up to an individual to decide which they believe is occurring. It's fine if you don't agree with my assessment of the situation, but I reserve the right to state it without being called "gay", correct? I believe that derogatory associations can emerge from these "appreciative" comments of women (and this can refer to many traits, but weight is the most pertinent) - firstly at whomever/whatever is being 'objectified', and secondly at what 'type' of woman is being disregarded as not fitting a social consensus of what 'is beautiful'.

I personally choose to refrain from such talk, and while I'm a liberal who doesn't really care what anyone says (unless it is grossly personally or generally offensive), I would like it if less of this talk went on, but I'm not going to stop you.

And one should distinguish between artistic representations of women, and "base hormonal" ones. While artistic representations can contribute to the same perceptions of beauty, it is clear they are usually in better taste than a discussion with a few guys and a coupl'a brews, which can be contemptuous to a degree (though that is a very strong word to be using, Sin), in my opinion.

Everyone's opinion can be considered as offensive, mine included. The difference is in how it is responded to. To bring this to topic, some more timid members may find it daunting/scary/inappropriate to go against a group and create some confrontation and controversy. While a lot (read, generally, most) of what goes on here (in terms of responding to such opinions) is in good humour and friendly, some of it isn't. I believe that in such instances discussion can be somewhat less confrontational and fun as a result.

I hope I've clarified something, but my opinions on feminism and other issues should probably be pursued somewhere that isn't this thread, so please just PM me maybe?

EDIT: And Che, I know you weren't actually calling me a homosexual, but I also don't like that term used in any kind of negative context. You imply that it is a bad thing to be gay, even if you don't think that when you are saying it. The fact that it has become so prevalent is not really a good thing.

[Maridia]

The people here are just...pussies flat out. It may have always been this way but at least when I started there felt like there was some spark of diversity. BoD, anime nerds, FF freaks, emo's....you get the point. Now for quite some time whenever someone posts it's like people get behind whatever the original poster said. Much like a South Park took our jobs, or drrp. It's the same rigamoran again and again. Now people have done it so long they've lost a sense of personality here. I can't honestly say I know many people here or care to. The posts I read tend to be a blur from one person to the next. At the end of the day you gotta realize it's a quiet ff forum we show up to, take it with a grain of salt people. Live a life, please.

I understand this doesn't address every point at the start but it's my general feelings on the subject.

[Pete]

Can we all just agree that tits are great, and call it a day?

Confrontation is good. People are too afraid to be themselves on the internet, and that's pathetic. I'll be blunt, as usual, and I'll state the obvious. Whatever I say in a thread is literally what is going on in my brain as I type it. Lots of times its reactionary, but lots of times it just cuts through all the bullshit and songs and dances that everyone tries to pull off for the sake of keeping up appearances. This place would be a lot better off if everyone was just themselves, and said just what exactly what was on their mind. Shit, we'd probably all respect each other a lot more too.

[Che]

EDIT: And Che, I know you weren't actually calling me a homosexual, but I also don't like that term used in any kind of negative context. You imply that it is a bad thing to be gay, even if you don't think that when you are saying it. The fact that it has become so prevalent is not really a good thing.

It's just a word. The fact that people get so offended by it is the bad thing. I'm all for gay rights and am not homophobic at all. I have a couple gay friends who use the word gay or call other people "fags" the same way I do.

Confrontation is good. People are too afraid to be themselves on the internet, and that's pathetic. I'll be blunt, as usual, and I'll state the obvious. Whatever, I say in a thread is literally what is going on in my brain as I type it. Lots of times its reactionary, but lots of times it just cuts through all the bullshit and songs and dances that everyone tries to pull off for the sake of keeping up appearances. This place would be a lot better off if everyone was just themselves, and said just what exactly what was on their mind. Shit, we'd probably all respect each other a lot more too.

Yes. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As a last note I must give Che some props; until I saw your post in here I thought you where a useless spammer because alot of the posts I have seen you make but you actually had some valid points and made a decent post in here and I learned a little about why you post the way you do. Kuddos.

I forgot to comment on this a few posts ago, but I'm happy to read this. I don't believe most of the things I have to say take pages and pages to get my message across. I branched off in my posting style back in the day when a lot of members thought a good post meant it had to be long and winded., yet I'm a firm believer that no one wants to sit there and read a book when they read a forum post (most of the time). It's just my style.

[Azuteor]

I meant to say it in a way that I would also say it to my best friend. Like if my friend said "i like the color pink," I would respond with "i always knew you were gay." I took a risk because thats how I am. I'm very sarcastic and always looking to capitalize on a joke. When I posted it I didn't think itd be taken to heart so I apologize.

A statement that you think is a joke might not be a joke to someone else. Though you didn't mean it derogatorily, you can't always assume people will feel a certain way. People will have different reactions.

We can't always treat each other the same way we do with family and friends. There's got to be some healthy boundaries. We must be careful with the things we say.

It's also hard to determine how a person says something without the tone of voice.

The people here are just...pussies flat out.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...ora/pffttt.png

People are too afraid to be themselves on the internet, and that's pathetic.

Of course they are. Well, not to the extreme. Without limits, they leave themselves open to anyone and everyone in the whole world via the internet. It's not pathetic. It's normal and understandable thing to do. They are not obliged tell you what kind of person he or she is unless you are a person who can be trusted and are a person who is known personally.

I don't think TFF has problems since the forum is generally a pretty good community, but it helps to be careful.

[Rocky]

See, when was it so important that we had to be overly careful on being nice to everyone and not hurting everyone's feelings? And what's wrong with treating people on here the same way that I treat my friends and family exactly? I don't understand why it has to be different just because I'm using a different medium of communication. The friends that I have met online are treated the same way as the friends that I have in real life. And why is it wrong for people like Che to use the word "gay" in a derogatory way? Because we have to be socially awkward and overly prude in how we address ourselves on a stupid website? That's retarded. (insert "you can't say that it's derogatory!" by a random forum-goer here)

See, back in my day, if people liked you and considered you a friend and such, people would tease and pick on you. If people are getting all butthurt about being teased when it is simply because you are liked, then you need to lighten up and stop taking yourself so seriously, because in reality, only you have the power to make yourself a joke. That's just how I was raised, and that's how I treat my friends as well. I pick on everyone and anyone, and I can take it as well, so feel free to make fun of how gay I am or something. I've got big shoulders.

[Pete]

Rocky nailed this one.

I never said anything about divulging your deepest and darkest secrets. Or even what state anyone lives in. That's just dumb as shit. I'm talking about keeping the same attitude and treating people in the same manner as you would offline. And I think if people post honestly, and drop the whole internet tough guy routine, or stop being too afraid to speak up or call people out on bullshit, then you would see the type of person everyone is.

and Rocky is thuper gay, btw

[Taco-Calamitous]

Coexist? Unless someone is really shatting on me or being an ass. Because clearly some people don't say the things they say because they like the other person; they're saying it to be antagonistic, for whatever reason. Y'know, just as long as you realize that I'm probably not gonna describe something as "gay" or "fag" on here, and that's pretty much the way I talk, then we're cool. Because I generally don't talk to my friends like that, ha (not generally... although general antagonism does happen.) So we're not all the same, and think the same, and have the same solutions to every problem? Who knew? Oh well. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[Alpha]

See, back in my day, if people liked you and considered you a friend and such, people would tease and pick on you.

Hmm, I think that happened when I was five..

But anyway, I think, and others have alluded to this, that offense can be taken in places where others would find humour, or something else. It is possible that some would be put off by this and refrain from stating an opinion, maybe leading to reduced confrontation.

But again, that's just my opinion , and it probably won't change anything. Oh well, I feel good for saying something at least.

[RagnaToad]

One day, you guys will reread this thread and realise you're all saying the same thing.

I'm sorry for not parttaking in this discussion, but it's a pretty old thread that was simply revisited because of one silly thread about the female form and one guy (you know who you are ) complaining how it might be offensive.

I've said it before, if you're going to be busy on the internet, or if you're going to leave your house basically, you'll be confronted with things that might offend you. But you start to develop a shield, you take it. That's what a free society is all about. If you're gonna prohibit talking about certain things, where's the limit?

I might be offended by a thread about guitars, because someone might say he doesn't like Fenders, or even that Stratocasters are shit. But that's their opinion, and I'm glad with my guitar. (See where I'm going?)

And about the confrontation, it's pretty normal for some people to look like a clique, because you can tell from their posts that they know eachother better than others might do. I personally can't say that I've seen Hellfire, Chez, Pete, Rocky, Sasquatch (can I count myself in?) or really anyone else holding back in a discussion because some of their beloved forum homies (if you will) have a totally different opinion.

So Alpha, if you're seeing cliques everywhere, I'd say you're mostly paranoid, pal.

And don't give me bad rep again for this post, I find that uncool.

EDIT: See what I'm doing? I like to chat about literature and politics with Alpha, but I'm not afraid to disagree with him. Confrontation ahoy!

[Govinda]

I think the people who have been posting in this thread are cool. You've all been arguing, so I've decided, as the only owner of breasts to post recently in here, to spread some love!

FREE HUGS FOR FIGHTERS, LOVERS, FAT CHICKS, FAT BOYS, THIN PEOPLE, BREASTS, CATS, DOGS, EMOS, ANIME FREAKS, NORMAL HUMANS, PEOPLE WHO CAN'T COOK, PAUL MCCARTNEY, MARGARET THATCHER, BILL GATES, HELL, EVEN ALL OF YOU GUYS!

Now get out there and spread that shit.