The General Election (UK)

[Storm]

I think the title is pretty obvious, but this thread is for the discussion of the 2010 General Election happening this May.

This is the first year I have been able to vote, and I have to say that it has been somewhat dissappointing that it seems more like voting for a face than policies. I'm sure a lot of people here have been having a bit of a laugh about the conservative posters of David Cameron's shiny face, and the limitless parodies you can put to it. It is also amusing how Gordon Brown is compete with his very awkward grin. Oh, and of course, the underdog who was constantly joked about for being the forgotten one of the 3 main contenders, Nick Clegg, who now seems to be a favorite.

To be honest, after the first political debate, I was thinking more about voting for the Liberal Democrats, as Nick Clegg seemed to be a bit refreshing from the bitchiness betweed "look at me" Cameron and "desperate" Brown. He is definatly charasmatic, and in my opinion, the more likeable of the 3. I did remember hearing more on the Conservative party's policies however, some of which I really liked, even though I felt that Cameron had a bit of an ego. To be honest, I was a little stuck for who to vote for due to how the media does not make comparison of each party's policies very easy at all. Thankfully, one of my friends linked me to this website* which cleared everything up for me, especially as I have no political bias. To be honest, I've never had much of an interest in politics until quite recently. I ended up with 55.56% of my choices being for conservative, I think I know who I am voting for!

I really like the crime and education policies for the Liberal Democrats. For crime, they say they would like to increase police numbers and give them more authority, along with cutting down the amount of paper work they have to do (something which currently prevents the police force from wanting to take on smaller investigations). For education, they wish to scrap tuition fees for university students studying their first degree, and are planning on spending more money on aiding struggling students. They are also hoping to have more vocational courses instead of having subjects being purely academic (even art and music are made to be more adedemic than vocational under the current National Curriculum).

For the Conservatives, I like their policies on democracy, environment, immigration, economy, Europe and welfare. For the economy, they have good policies on helping with the increasing problem of youth unemployment, and reforming local services to improve schools and the NHS. For immigration, the points system is the main focus, as well as closing up the holes in the current border control system, and reducing net immigration. Their welfare policies I believe are very strong, as they focus on helping families with disabilities and of low income. This ties in well with their policies of tying up the loopholes in the benefits system. For Europe, they wish to be positive EU members, but will not extend Europe's power over the UK. For environment, their main focusses aid making homes more economic, which cuts down bills and unneccessary power wastage. I also have more faith in the conservative party as they say that recovery from the recession is not going to be easy, it will be a slow process but it can be done. This seems to be a realistic point of view in my opinion.

So, I would like to know who else will be voting in the election next month.
Do you know who you are voting for?
Or, if you are not old enough to vote, who would you vote for if you could?
If you are not voting, why not? (please something more than "politix is crap")
Also, how do you feel about the political campaigns this year?

Thanks,
Storm.

* This website contains a questionaire, where you choose subjects you are interested in (I picked all), then you have a multiple choice of each party's policies on each subject. Each party's name is annonymous (although it is extremely obvious which ones are the BNP and UKIP), so you are less likely to take a bias,

[Aerif]

Do you know who you are voting for?

Well, I know who I'm not voting for, haha.

Everything that David Cameron seems to say seems to have positive connotations for England, but negative connotations for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. His plans to cut the number of MPs may be a good idea for over-populated England, but it will make a huge difference everywhere else, and will reduce Scotland to 50 MPs (which is significant despite the lower population, since there are probably a few constituencies in Scotland that are the size of Wales).

Besides, Margaret Thatcher was so evil that her uncyclopedia page redirects to Satan.

I've now officially taken two quizzes to find out which party would be the best for me. The one that Storm linked to. And another one that I feel gives better representation depending on which part of the country you happen to be in: here.

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The results I recieved from voteforpolicies:

Labour: 33%
Green Party: 33%
Conservatives: 22%
BNP: 11%

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The results I recieved from votematch:

Scottish Green Party: 72%
Scottish National Party (SNP): 54%
Scottish Labour: 54%
Liberal Democrats: 54%
UK Independence Party (UKIP): 52%
British National Party (BNP): 33%
Conservative Party: 30%

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Looks like I'm a total rascist, haha, but ironically all of the policies I agree with for the racist parties seem to have nothing to do with immigration. So that's okay.

It's sort of weird that I'm getting such high results from the green party, since I've never even considered voting for them.

Becasue of the way British politics work (a system that does need a reform, but not the kind the Tories want) I'm probably going to vote either Labour or SNP. Despite Nick Clegg's successes, he won't be becoming Prime Minister, and nobody ever votes green.

Even though the SNP won't be coming into power, the more seats the SNP has, the more support Scotland gets.

Who knows, the SNP might even convince Westminster to follow Holyrood and get tuition fees abolished. I feel sorry for students who don't live in Scotland who need to pay the ridiculous £3000+ in England and £1200 in Scotland, all because they haven't lived in Scotland for a number of years (although luckily EU students also recieve free tuition in Scotland, just not English, Welsh or N. Irish).

How do you feel about the political campaigns this year?

I've hated every moment of it. Nick Clegg does well in the debates and suddenly everyone wants to vote for him. Samantha Cameron announces that she is coincidentally pregnant. Alex Salmond and the leader of Plaid complain that they don't get to be in a debate where most of the questions don't affect them due to devolution.

It's kind of schoolyard-ish. This is the point where I almost refer to Eton and then don't.

[Storm]

I've hated every moment of it. Nick Clegg does well in the debates and suddenly everyone wants to vote for him. Samantha Cameron announces that she is coincidentally pregnant. Alex Salmond and the leader of Plaid complain that they don't get to be in a debate where most of the questions don't affect them due to devolution.

It's kind of schoolyard-ish. This is the point where I almost refer to Eton and then don't.

Yeah I thought the same. It really seems that people are going for face and are judging everything on the debate without knowing what the LibDem policies are. I know that not everyone is doing this, but a significant number of people I have talked to have just said "lets give it a go!"

I didn't know the Conservative's policies have a negative impact on the rest of the UK. I may need to have a look at some sources.

Voteforpolicies:
Conservative: 55%
LibDem: 33%
Labour: 11%
Green: 11%

Votematch
Conservative: 44%
Labour: 35%
Green: 32%
LibDem: 28%

So for me, both come up with Conservative on top. I do like their policies, however from what you said, I may have a look into what it means for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland if they get in.

[winterborn86]

I vote Labour, I've had a pretty good life under a Labour government and my kids go to the sure start centres (free child care) that were opened by Labour, which apparently the torries want to close down. I don't agree with the torries wanting to cut tax for the rich, and not for anyone else it's unfair, I've heard they want to get rid of child tax/benfit which I don't agree with either.

As for the LD, I don't mind some of their policies and I don't think I will be overly concerened if they won because we havn't had a LD government and for all we know it could turn out to be ok, but I would HATE a torrie government.

My parents and grandparents have grown up under a torry government and they have all said they were the worst years of their lives.

[Andromeda]

I don't really have anything to say on the subject since it's not my country, but I did have something mention and sort of ask. Since you mention that the debate I remember seeing the debate late night on Fox News. At first I was not sure what was going on, but I quickly realized what it was that they were showing. I've only recently started following politics and Fox News so I don't know if this something that they normally do.

Do the British debates normally get broadcast outside of the country? I can't recall ever hearing it being broadcast over here, but as I said politics and news is not something I followed until recently. So I may have easily missed it. I was sort of getting this impression that this year was very important for England/British Isles, is there a change in direction in policy or something major that could be happening soon?

I think it is pretty nice that Fox News actually ran the broadcast, I wonder if any other news stations ran the full debate.

[Storm]

I don't really have anything to say on the subject since it's not my country, but I did have something mention and sort of ask. Since you mention that the debate I remember seeing the debate late night on Fox News. At first I was not sure what was going on, but I quickly realized what it was that they were showing. I've only recently started following politics and Fox News so I don't know if this something that they normally do.

Do the British debates normally get broadcast outside of the country? I can't recall ever hearing it being broadcast over here, but as I said politics and news is not something I followed until recently. So I may have easily missed it. I was sort of getting this impression that this year was very important for England/British Isles, is there a change in direction in policy or something major that could be happening soon?

I think it is pretty nice that Fox News actually ran the broadcast, I wonder if any other news stations ran the full debate.

It is interesting to know that the US is taking an interest in British politics, as I had no idea whether countries outside Britain know much about what is happening. I think it is a good thing, considering how Britain and America have a strong alliance. The US elections definatly got the British attention too!

I'm pretty certain this is the first broadcast debate. It is quite interesting as you get to see the 3 main contenders debating on their policies. The only problem with it I have found is that a number of people seem to be judging the potential of the candidates purely from the broadcast. The party leaders have also been in a few broadcast interviews. There has been a lot of problems before with people not taking an interest in voting, so I believe this is a way to attract the public's attention to the elections so more people will vote (especially the 18-25 age bracket).

There are a few things which may happen soon. I know that a few parties are considering changing the education system by scrapping the SATS tests (exams you sit in Year 6 (age 11, end of primary school), and there is talk of abolishing the National Curriculum (a very acedemic schooling system) to introduce more vocational courses. I've heard rumours also of changing school leaving age from 16 to 18. There is a lot of talk also on making changes to the immigration laws, as Britain is becoming rather over-populated. A policy which more than one party wants to introduce is a 'points' system, which assesses on how well the individual knows English, and will benefit the country. Another main target is crime, as the country's prisons are very full, and the police force itself needs to be improved. It is daft how there is such an increase on crime when Britain has the most CCTV coverage in the world!

I'm not really the most well-informed person on the subject, as I am still quite new to politics, however it is interesting to see how different groups plan to improve the country.

[Andromeda]

What is the school leaving age about? Are you referring to the age that students are allowed to drop out and the limit of required schooling? Or is it graduation time?

Didn't know that there was a over-population problem. As long as you don't end up with a negative birth rate controlling immigration would help. Japan is facing a negative birth rate and being an island nation.

But US and UK politics definitely seem to be pretty connected. Though I guess with the economic state of the world, it has become quite important what other countries are doing. Considering the more socialist tendencies that the US is taking what happens to us is probably going to be of great interest. I wonder if there will be anymore broadcasts up to the General Election that will be run over here.

[Storm]

What is the school leaving age about? Are you referring to the age that students are allowed to drop out and the limit of required schooling? Or is it graduation time?

Graduation time. In England (and Wales I believe), we finish compulsory education at the age of 16, after the GCSE examinations. After this, we can go onto sixthform or college to study A-levels, National Diploma or equivelant qualifications, which are not compulsory. The Scottish system is slightly different, and I have no idea about Northern Ireland. Then, at 18, we have the option of studying a degree at University (our college and university are seperate things).

I think what they are planning is to make A-levels and equivelant qualifications for the 16-18 age bracket a necessity, so that all students are more likely to get decent jobs as they will have the qualifications to do so. I personally do not see, if this does happen, how it will improve anything, as there are students who really do not want to learn, and disrupt the classroom. It certainly made studying my A-levels more enjoyable, having minimum annoyance from disruptive students. A lot of other countries do have a graduation age of 18, however, so I can't really say much about this since I do not know first-hand whether it is a good course of action or not.

Didn't know that there was a over-population problem. As long as you don't end up with a negative birth rate controlling immigration would help. Japan is facing a negative birth rate and being an island nation.

It is not in too much of a desperate state at the moment, however the risk is running higher since we have such lax border management controls at the moment. For this country, however, I'm not sure if we will suffer the same issue as Japan with the low birth-rate as we have a problem with underage/teenage pregnancy. Also, there are some families who have a lot of children and don't work as they can recieve benefits from the government. You can also secure a council house if you've got a child. This is a very difficult situation, because of course you cannot put children at risk, but there are people taking the benefits system for granted. There are also some people who cannot be bothered to find a job, and live on "job seeker's allowance", which is intended for people who do not have a job to keep themselves fed and housed until they find a job and can support themselves. Again, it is a tricky situation.

But US and UK politics definitely seem to be pretty connected. Though I guess with the economic state of the world, it has become quite important what other countries are doing. Considering the more socialist tendencies that the US is taking what happens to us is probably going to be of great interest. I wonder if there will be anymore broadcasts up to the General Election that will be run over here.

I do agree that we can learn more about our own situation by looking at what is happening in other countries. Of course, it is not always certain that things will run the same, however I believe there is no better source to make a model on how to improve a situation than finding out how that system works elsewhere.

[Andromeda]

Huh, I didn't know that it was 16 for you. I guess I just figured 18 was a bit of a standard everywhere. How does that end up changing the curriculum? I always did feel there was a bit of overlap with some of classes. It is actually quite fascinating to see how the school system is different. So used to hearing High School being 9th-12th grade or about 15-18 in the age group. But there is no middle ground between High School and high education for us. Colleges can be stepping stones into Universities for us, but it is not a requirement. For us Colleges and Universities are different because a University is multiple colleges on the same grounds more or less and colleges are more focused.

What sort of classes are placed in the middle ground after age 16?

[Aerif]

This election will actually have no bearing on the Scottish education system as far as I'm aware since that's dealt with by Holyrood. However if Westminster makes certain changes then Holyrood is likely to follow (like the opposite case of the smoking ban).

I see the leaver's age being set to 18 as being a bit of a problem in the UK (exc. Scotland) and almost down-right impossible in Scotland. As far as I'm aware, A-Levels are quite difficult which means that those students who don't even achieve GCSEs are going to have to have something else to do within those two years, since they're unlikely to achieve any A-Levels.

Considering the more socialist tendencies that the US is taking what happens to us is probably going to be of great interest.

Ironically if the party Storm is supporting gets into power, Britain will be a right-wing country in reflection of the centre-right standing of the Conservatives. We won't really be all that socialist if that happens. The US becomes more left-winged and the UK becomes more right-winged. Guess that's some sort of cosmic balance thing .


EDIT: Just goes to show how long it takes me to right a post now!

[Storm]

What sort of classes are placed in the middle ground after age 16?

It depends. A-levels are the more acedemic route, which are much more advanced than the GCSE qualifications. How many you take depends on the school, however the typical number is 4 subjects on the first year, and then you drop one on the second year. The classes are typical subjects, such as Biology, Mathematics, Geography, Art, Music, History, French etc. There are also a few extra ones such as Business, which are not typically studied at GCSE level. To be able to study A-levels there is a minimum qualification level (I cannot remember what this is, but I believe it is about 5 C grades at GCSE).

There are vocational courses such as the National Diplomas, which are typically aimed at people who did not do so strongly in their GCSEs, or want to take a more practical route. There is a wide variety of these, such as TV and Film Production, Hair and Beauty, and Childcare. Each course has the equivelant of a certain number of A-levels (normally 2-3 depending on the course, however I am not entirely familiar with these).

EDIT:

Ironically if the party Storm is supporting gets into power, Britain will be a right-wing country in reflection of the centre-right standing of the Conservatives. We won't really be all that socialist if that happens. The US becomes more left-winged and the UK becomes more right-winged. Guess that's some sort of cosmic balance thing.

Aye, that as true. I have no background political bias, but from doing the two tests and from reading policies from the 3 main players, I have to say I prefer those of the Conservative party. I think that Labour have a few good policies, but I also feel that they have done a fair bit of damage. Conservative may be a bit of a gamble, as last time they were in power, although things started off well, Maggie did screw things up in the end. I also believe that one of the biggest problems at the moment is the economy, and I believe that allthough the economic situation will not be easy to solve, Conservative are more likely to help the economical situation of the country.

[Heartless Angel]

Can't say I've been watching much for campaigning, since I'm American, but based on what I've seen of the candidates, I'd have to go for Cameron. I watch the British House of Commons all the time, so I see alot of the things he suggests, the way he feels about current policies, etcetera etcetera. From what I've seen there, Brown is a clown. He'll be the first to take credit for any improvement made, and the first to change the subject whenever anything else is mentioned. Out of all the questions people ask him, I think he actually answered about 5% of them. The rest he just starts babbling about the good things that have happened during his term to avoid acknowledging problems. But then, I'm extremely biased against politicians in general. I hate em all. That's not to say I hate politics, I love politics. I just hate politicians.

[Ragtime]

The Lib Dems are very popular amongst student, but I personally know quite a few people who voted labour (even though they support the Lib Dems) simply because they don't want the Tories to be the majority and they know that the Lib Dems won't have enough support to compete with the Tories.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the Tories. TBH, I'm kind of excited as this is the first time I am voting (I turned 18 last year).

[winterborn86]

I heard some people get put off voting Lib Dem because they don't have as much chance to get in as labour or Torries do, although I'm not sure if that is true or not.
I might have to imigrate if Cameron gets in, it's not fair to cut people's tax credits then get rid of free child care like the sure start centres and make people pay to send their kids to nursery.
Also the torries favour the rich than the working class people, people like me will suffer under a torry government whilst the rich have it easy, not exactly a fair life ahead is it?

[Storm]

Also the torries favour the rich than the working class people, people like me will suffer under a torry government whilst the rich have it easy, not exactly a fair life ahead is it?

Really? I haven't seen anything to suggest this. The Tories want people to work for their money, and to tie up the loose ends in the benefits system. I strongly agree with this. Of course people will get money if they are looking for jobs, but I don't see why people can happily sit on their arses and get by, when there are people working hard to try to keep a roof over their heads. I come from a working class family, yet I can see a lot of good in what the Tories wish to do. It isn't going to be an easy ride, but I believe they are the most likely to help our economy. People are taking advantage too much of getting "free money" and not being bothered to work, where under Tory power, that money could go towards creating more jobs and genrally improving the country. I know that not everyone who gets job seekers allowance is a scrounger, and there are people who aren't able to work for one reason or another, but giving the scroungers a push to get off their arses is a good thing to me. Also, from what I have read, the Tories wish to spread out the economy, NOT make the richer richer and the poorer poorer.

I personally feel that Brown has made too many f*ups to have my support. Just like the lib dems, they do have a few good policies, but I am much more slanted towards the Tories. I'd probably consider emigrating if Labour get into power again. Of course, I may be proved wrong.

(oh, and on a minor note, I think you mean emigrate, not immigrate)

[Aerif]

Really? I haven't seen anything to suggest this. The Tories want people to work for their money, and to tie up the loose ends in the benefits system. I strongly agree with this. Of course people will get money if they are looking for jobs, but I don't see why people can happily sit on their arses and get by, when there are people working hard to try to keep a roof over their heads. I come from a working class family, yet I can see a lot of good in what the Tories wish to do. It isn't going to be an easy ride, but I believe they are the most likely to help our economy. People are taking advantage too much of getting "free money" and not being bothered to work, where under Tory power, that money could go towards creating more jobs and genrally improving the country. I know that not everyone who gets job seekers allowance is a scrounger, and there are people who aren't able to work for one reason or another, but giving the scroungers a push to get off their arses is a good thing to me. Also, from what I have read, the Tories wish to spread out the economy, NOT make the richer richer and the poorer poorer.

You see, the media may not portray this side of the Tories so much since they have been doing so well. But it's Tory tradition to side with the rich, which is why of course the party is considered right-winged.

When I initally ran through the VoteMatch I got a higher result for Tories. Some of the policies seemed like a good idea before I actually put thought into them.

You see I do agree with the fact that there are people (henceforth referred to as NEDs or Chavs, depending on my mood. NB: They're likely not all this social group), who do live on benefits for no good reason. They don't try and get a job or function in society, it's the NED lifestyle to have a council flat and no job or intention to ever get one.

For these people, sure, cut their benefits if they can't prove that they're actively seeking employment. The only thing I see that's wrong with this is that it probably can't happen. Think of the rise in homeless people and such.

But there are a lot of people for whom David Cameron's very-specific policy on this won't work for. Take my father for instance, he works for IBM, my mother works as a careworker for people with learning difficulties, between them they earn enough to support four children (one of which is at Uni). If for some reason my father lost his job, he may be forced onto benefits.

Now the way David Cameron wants it work is that if my father refuses an employment prospect, his benefits will be cut. Basically if he's offered a job at McDonalds (or more likely, if the Tories actually dish out the jobs, a council binman or something) and refuses it he's out. Despite having worked 25 years at IBM, and no that's not a dramatisation, that's what Cameron's manifesto actually says.

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On another note, the Tories have actively said that they're going to make cuts. These are intended to hurt education and health the worst, but also to cut the money given to the Scottish Parliament/Welsh National Assembly/Northern Ireland Assembly. This means that devolved matters will also be cut. Doing more damage to Sc/We/NI since they'll have had the cuts from non-devolved parts of these matters AND the devolved parts.

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Immigration I can't really judge too much. In my high school there was one ethnic minority who was actually of Portugese descent, so locally the problems don't affect me. Although it is really, really odd how many part time jobs seem to be held by ethnic minoritys, it's rather out of proportion as a 98% white town can have a Tesco with 10% Polish staff. That's probably more likely to be caused by 'political correctness' (it's tempted me to start using White-Irish rather than White-British on job applications, not done it yet though).

I don't really agree with any of the major parties about immigration. Labour are letting too many in, Conservatives want such a large reduction that it's implying they want to leave the EU, and the LibDems... well... they're opinion is funny on this, 'proportional-immigration' or something silly like that. Honorouble mention for immigration... BNP of course!

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Concerning the nuclear agenda, I agree 100% with the Green Party. We don't need Trident, we don't need new power plants, and we don't need new weapons.

WHAT THE HELL IS THE POINT IN HAVING LOTS OF NUKES? IT ONLY TAKES ONE TO DESTROY A GOVERNMENT. AND IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE EVER GOING TO USE THEM!

Also the renewable energy we have is unbelievable. We're a few windy islands surrounded by water. Wind power and wave power should really have taken off better in England.

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The most interesting thing about the results that we've recieved is this:

Scottish Labour has 42% of votes in Scotland.
Llafur Cymru (Welsh Labour) has 36% of votes in Wales.
Labour has 36% of votes in London.
Sinn Fein (left-winged party) has 25.5% of votes in Northern Ireland.
All of the above figures show the parties with the most votes. In the case of N. Ireland, another party won more seats but less votes.

If David Cameron becomes Prime Minister with Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, and London all having left-wing majorities there will be problems. Mr. Cameron may turn out to be a good PM (although nobody can be a good PM after that recession), but it would be rather controversial if he ignored three countries and the capital city of the UK.