Bleach Club

[Oathkeeper13]

Debates
Ichigo: arrancar or vizard?

Well it's still a little to hard to understand. They havn't really stated what the Vizard truly are. I mean they look like normal humans that can transform into hollows at will. I mean doesn't Ichigo fall under that category. Usually Arrancars have some part of hollow material on them at all times. But Ichigo doesn't have that.

I want Ichigo to join Vizard cause there pretty much like him. But knowing the author Tite. He'll probably just have Ichigo just work with them.

Though I hope it gets to the point where there will be a time jump just like in the Naruto series. Everyone grows up gets a diffrent appearance and new awesome abilities. Then again Rukia and the other Soul Reapers don't age at all so I guess that wouldn't work. Then again he could pull some strings and make so they do age a little. But I don't see that happening.

A man can dream.

The Rp.

The Rp sounds pretty cool. Count me in.

[Rasler]

No RP for me. Haven't RPed in many, many years and I'm not versed well enough in the Bleach mythos to do a Bleach RP.

[abarai renji]

i'm in for the rp. i haven't rpd for a while, seeing that all i've tried to be in have died.
however, i have a suggestion to make for the rp. i was thinking that maybe for the four fighting types of shinigami, like the shunpo, swordsmanship, and that kinda stuff, we could have one specialty and one minor strength of them, since one would limit our capabilities.

Visard or arrancaur
i as well would like to see ichigo join the visard, however i would like to know more about them before he joins. the one in ichigo's class seems friendly, but the one girl with him was a little mean, so they could be anything. so i think its best for him to be cautious about them, but i would hate to see him join the arrancaur. also, i consider ichigo neither a visard or an arrancaur. an arrancaur needs to be a full-fledged hollow, correct? and since ichigo is not yet fully dead, he is cannot be a hollow, just has part of a hollow in him (which i think was probably caused by when he became a shinigami, part of him had to die, since all shinigamis are dead, and that part was didn't go to seretei in time and turned into a hollow. you can see he had a hollow in him when he learns to control his zanpakuto, because it talks to zangetsu.) and i don't consider him a vizard because his hollow is wild and untamed, not under his control at all, but the other way around.
what i think will happen is in his fight with the arrancaur he's facing now is that he will have his hollow come out, and he will force it and himself into that sideways city place, and they will fight and ichigo will learn with the help of zangetsu to control him, and then he will join the vizard.

sorry for the long post people.

[Oathkeeper13]

Bleach Now
Yeah I just don't see and Ichigo and the party is goanna get both Orihime out and escape with everyone alive. I mean I can see Ichigo getting out ok cause he's the main character. But if your up to date on the manga then... yeah read the spoiler at the bottom.

Spoiler: If ya read the last two manga chapters Rukia got the tar beat out of her by the Kain-Dono Arrancar. According to the 2nd last Bleach chapter one arrancar said that she died. But they can't kill Rukia off. THEY JUST CAN'T. But I don't like to just think that they'll always keep the main characters alive. I made that one mistake in the Naruto series.

[Xeim]

Okay, then Abarai and Oathkeeper please start working on your profiles. I'll post the sign-ups as soon as I've finished my profile.

Rasler, no problem. If you ever change your mind though, you can always join late.

Abarai: I suppose that would be a good idea. The minor wouldn't effect the division we're assigned to, but it would broaden our capabilities. I'll make sure to add that into my profile so people know they need one as well.

I found another really good Japanese dictionary for the RPers.

http://www.trussel.com/f_nih.htm

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What happened to our other discussions? Rasler had some pretty good ideas here. I'd like to keep the “Symbolism of Zanpukto Transformations” and the “BLEACH Character Equivalents” alive a bit longer. C’mon guys, don’t be afraid of lengthy posts now. I also love the bleach pictures/icons idea. It doesn’t have to be a requirement, but if you happen to come across a funny picture, go ahead and post it. Keep it appropriate. You all know the rules.

Ichigo: Arrancar or Vizard?

I see where you stand on that abarai. I agree. We need more information on the vizard before Ichigo makes his move, however, he can’t just keep waiting around. He needs to do something, and fast.

Another point you brought up is Ichigo isn’t dead. That pretty much makes him incapable of being anything. He’s not completely shinigami because he’s still alive, but he not completely human because he’s partly shinigami. The poor boy stands alone. He’s a human, and shinigami, and a hollow. What an existence to have....

[Oathkeeper13]

Why is Menos Grande that F*cking huge?


Because Menos Grande eats alot of other Hollows like hundreds and hundreds.


I'm a little confused over the names of the Zanpakuto forms; I know 3rd form is Bankai, but do not know the names of the other two.

Well there are three forms of Soul Reaper. (SO FAR)

1st Form: Theres just having you Zanpakuto as a normal sword.

2nd Form: Is you learning it's name. You say it out loud and it transforms into a diffrent form.

3rd Form. Also know as Ban Kai, where you can just activate the 2nd stage without saying the name of your Zanpakuto at all. But this time you half to say Ban Kai to trigger the transformation. And the result is you have your swords true form.

Even though you have Ban Kai you can still improve it and make it more powerful. And discover new attacks with it.

Some Soul Reapers have so much Spiritual Pressure that there Zanpakutos can reach the skys. Thats why the half to shape and compress there swords so they can actually use them effectivly. It would be kind of hard to weild a giant sword that is as tall as a building.

Vizard Or Arrancar
.............................uuuuuuuuuuuh I ran out of things to say. I just think Ichigo falls under Vizard more. ........yeah thats all I got on that one.


RP.

Ok i'll work on it and give it to ya. You want it PM'ed to you right?

[Rasler]

I have another question.

Rukia claims in an early episode to be several hundred years old. She has the appearance of a woman in her teens-early 20s. Yet in flashbacks, she and Renji are seen as children.

How exactly does spirit-being aging work? Do they also start off as infants but choose the age at which they will remain? Does their physical aging stop when they awaken their shingiami powers? Does their age even really matter since they're just spirits? These seem to be reasonable conclusions, but I cannot substantiate them.

[Oathkeeper13]

They never really explained how the whole ageing thing works when your a Shikigami. The Soul Reapers are old, but they keep there age appearance. However you are right about seeing Rukia and Renji when they first met. It's just another one of those things the author fails to say.

[Yuuki]

Yay im back! the club Rp sounds fun i guess i'll join.
I still have to go backand read everything that i missed so yeah i might need some time to need everything.

[Xeim]

What's the name of Ichigo's hollow?

As of yet, I've been unable to find anything solid about this. I have found through various icon searches that a good many people call him "Hichigo." And Wikipedia says this "The title page of chapter 220 depicts the inner hollow with the mirror writing of Ichigo's name." That's about all I've seen though.

Why is Menos Grande that F*cking huge?

I don't know for sure why they're so big but, Menos Grande means "little big." So, seeing that "big" enemies are "scarier" Tite Kubo probably decided to make them big. Not all menos are big though, the Vastro Lodes are the same size as humans.

I'm a little confused over the names of the Zanpakuto forms; I know 3rd form is Bankai, but do not know the names of the other two.As far as I know there are only two zanpukto forms, not counting the unreleased state which has no name. If you can find somethign disproving this, I'd be extremely interested in it.

Initial release: shikai
Final release: bankai

Why is Menos Grande that F*cking huge?

Because Menos Grande eats alot of other Hollows like hundreds and hundreds.


I'm a little confused over the names of the Zanpakuto forms; I know 3rd form is Bankai, but do not know the names of the other two.
Well there are three forms of Soul Reaper. (SO FAR)

1st Form: Theres just having you Zanpakuto as a normal sword.

2nd Form: Is you learning it's name. You say it out loud and it transforms into a diffrent form.

3rd Form. Also know as Ban Kai, where you can just activate the 2nd stage without saying the name of your Zanpakuto at all. But this time you half to say Ban Kai to trigger the transformation. And the result is you have your swords true form.

Even though you have Ban Kai you can still improve it and make it more powerful. And discover new attacks with it.

Some Soul Reapers have so much Spiritual Pressure that there Zanpakutos can reach the skys. Thats why the half to shape and compress there swords so they can actually use them effectivly. It would be kind of hard to weild a giant sword that is as tall as a building.

Thank you Oathkeeper for restating almost exactly what I aready said.....
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How exactly does spirit-being aging work? Do they also start off as infants but choose the age at which they will remain? Does their physical aging stop when they awaken their shingiami powers? Does their age even really matter since they're just spirits? These seem to be reasonable conclusions, but I cannot substantiate them.

Though, as Oathkeeper stated they haven’t told us anything, I have been able to gather a small amount of information based on what characters have said.

It seems that when you go to Soul Society you retain the age that you die as. You then begin to age normally from then on. And yes, when they become shinigami their physical aging all but stops. But it doesn’t stop. They just begin to age very, very slowly. It is stated by one of the characters that shinigami are NOT IMMORTAL. They just have extended lives. No, their age doesn’t matter much. I mean look at the Captain-Commander. He’s an old geezer, but Kyouraku and Ukitake were nervous about fighting him. They can be killed, and they can die. It is speculated that after a soul in Soul Society dies, they are sent back to the real world to live again.

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RP

Oathkeeper: You are welcome to PM it to me, though it’s not required. I’d be able to look it over, tell you if you need to add anything, and double-check your translations so you don’t accidentally have a zanpukto that means “Demon’s Nest” instead of “Demon’s Fire” or something.

Yuuki: It’s good to see you again! I’ll add you to the RP member list. Take your time on your profile. I want these to be good. The RP storyline is on the first page as well as the previous one. I recommend reading the one on the previous page as some new events are described there as well. Oh, and be careful with double-posting!

EDIT: I've just realized something whil talking to Oathkeeper.

There's going to be some problems with ages. I'll say the characters can be anywhere from 13-18 while they were alive, remember they died on a school trip. I'll also allow a couple 30-40 year old characters as teachers. We don't need any, but if you want to do this I'll leave it open. Since we all die at the same time, we'll all have been in Soul Society for the same amount of time. I think it would be reasonable to join the acadamy 10 years later, so if you put your age of death as 13, your current age will be 23.

Also, of note is that I have changed the requirements of your attack specialties. When looking at the requirements for joining certain squads, I realized that 2 standard specialties won't be enough. Based on the squad you want, you can now choose to have either 2,3, or 4 standard abilities.

The shinigami abilites, however, remain at one speciality, and one minor.

[Yuuki]

Hmm im sorry to say but i dont quite understand the RP charecter chart thingy.
So we put they’re design, name, appearance description ,age (of death), current age, background story, sector number and fighting specialties right?
I get confused with the sector number thingy. and do I pm you the profile Xeim or is there someplace I put it in?
Some help whould be nice.

[Xeim]

Wow Yuuki. Ok, I'll put up part of my profile here. The background/personality part isn't quite done yet though so I'll leave it blank.

Name: Haruka-Hyourin Tokoyami [or Haruka Tokoyami]
(Haruka-Hyourin: lit. distant-moon; Tokoyami- lit. everlasting darkness)
Age (of death): 14
Current Age: 24
Birthday: November 1
Birthplace: Karakura Town
Hair Color: black with crimson streaks
Eye Color: Black
Blood Type: O
Gender: Female
Height: 5’4”
Weight: 110 lbs.
Zanpukto name: Kagemaru (lit. Shadow Circle)
Zanpukto element: N/A
Occupation: Academy Student
Shinigami Specialty: Swordsmanship
Shinigami Specialty Minor: Shunpo
Standard Specialties: Attack, Defense, Spells

Personality/Apperance:
Background:

I hope that helps some...

Other RP members, go ahead and follow that format for me, will ya? heh.

The following is copied from Wikipedia, and I most definately did not write this. It's regarding the Sectors of Rukongai.

"Rukongai (流魂街 lit. wandering soul city) is the largest portion of Soul Society and the most populated. It is divided into 320 districts (80 in North Rukongai, 80 in West Rukongai, etc.), each numbered in descending order on how far they are from the center; this results in the higher-numerated (and farther) districts decaying into slums. Thus, while District 1 is peaceful and lawful, much like the antiseptic lifestyle of early-Edo era Kyoto, District 80 is a hardscrabble, violent, crime-infested area that more depicts Heian era Kyoto. There is no indication that the shinigami or any other agencies patrol the streets of Rukongai, and as a result, the citizenry are mainly responsible for their day-to-day welfare.

So far, only five names of Rukongai districts are known:

1 - Junrinan (潤林安), part of West Rukongai
Tōshirō Hitsugaya, Momo Hinamori, and Jidanbō, the West Gate Keeper, came from here. When Ichigo comes to Soul Society, the spirit of Yūichi Shibata, the boy who inhabited Chad's cockatiel, also comes to reside here. According to Sōsuke Aizen, West Rukongai is also the "headquarters" of Kisuke Urahara.
3 - Hokuan, part of West Rukongai
Kaien Shiba trained Rukia Kuchiki here on Mt. Koifushi.
78 - Inuzuri, the South Alley of Flowing Spirits
Both Rukia Kuchiki and Renji Abarai grew up here.
79 - Kusajishi (草鹿), the North Alley of Loitering Spirits
Yachiru Kusajishi was found here by Kenpachi Zaraki.
80 - Zaraki (更木), the North Alley of Loitering Spirits
Captain Kenpachi Zaraki originated from here."


I hope this also helps you Yuuki. You can pick any sector number between 1 and 320, but if you choose one of the ones mentioned here, include it's name. Put it in the "background" section of your profile.

If you have any questions please post them here, someone else might find they have the same one.

Go ahead and PM me the profiles when your done so I can check them over and get a feel for the characters. I'll be posting the sign-ups in the OOC when I'm completely done with my profile. You'll then have to post your profile there again. Confusing enough?
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The non-RP members need something to do as well, so I'm going to start a new discussion.

Discussion:
Aizen: Can anyone see reasoning behind his actions?

I dunno. This has been bothering me for a while now. Why did Aizen do what he did? I mean heck, of course its the usual "I want Power" Syndrome, but does anyone see anything deeper? When I think about him, I feel like I can almost place my finger on something, then something else says I'm crazy.

Also, I might've missed this, but why did Aizen need Renji, Kira, Shuuhei, and Momo anyway?

[Dimi]

Thanks for the help Captain. I was a little confused myself about the RP profile and how you wanted it to be. I'll start working on my profile as well. I'll edit in my profile on here later and on the RP OOC as well.

Name: Hawokuishibaru (lit. Pain)
Age (of death): 13 years. old
Current Age: 23 years, old
Birthday: August 18
Birthplace: Karakura Town
Hair Color: Black
Eye Color: Blue
Blood Type: A
Gender: Male
Height: 6'0''
Weight: 174 Ibs.
Zanpukto name: Chikarou Amanojaku (lit.Dungeon Demon)
Zanpukto element: N/A
Occupation: Academy Student
Shinigami Fighting Specialty: Swordsmanship
Shinigami Fighting Minor: Combat Standard Specialties: Attack, Endurance, and Spell Defense

Personality/Appearance: Hawokuishibaru is known as the "quiet one". Coming from a hard past, Hawokuishibaru is tough and is not afraid to challenge anybody. Highly competitive and determined to prove to himself that he is strong, he's willing to prove to people that he's not weak. He's not the nicest guy around, but he stands up for the weak and defends them with pride. He knows right from wrong and is willing to help the greater good. He is strong and is a fighter. His weakness is showing emotion to anyone at all. He has a hard time expressing it because he thinks sbout his past and can sometimes get the best of him. Hawokuishibaru was born with black hair and blue eyes. His hair is a spike and his blue eyes show promise, strength, and courage.

Background: Before his death had occured, Hawokuishibaru was a happy kid. Most of his life when alive, he'd grown with his family and friends He was a happy and outgoing kid and enjoyed living life. However, not everything was picture-perfect. His father really pushed him to grow up really fast and wanted him to stand on his own feet. Whether if it was emotionally of physically, Hawokuishibaru was pushed and pushed. Soon, after wanting to impress his father, he had forgotten about who he was and what really mattered to him. One day while going on a fieldtrip to Mt. Fuji, Hawokuishibaru had been killed in an accident along with his classmates.

One day while waking up to the Soul Society, Hawokuishibaru felt like he was in a better place. Even though, he felt so much pressure had been lifted off his shoulders, the way his father treated him, scarred him. He was confused. He'd forgotten about all his classmates and had forgotten about who he was. As the years went by, he slowly gained his memory and remembered Haruka and a few other classmates, but was distant to them.as time went by.

[abarai renji]

yay profile's done, i think. i'll send it to you soon, xeim.
also for the question. I don't really see any reason for why he would try to do what he's doing. i see the "more power" thing that bad guys always go for, but that's about all i see.
also, whatever happened to Gin and the other guy, like tosen or something. did they just dissappear, or will they come back?

[Oathkeeper13]

You see Ichimaru, Aizen and the other dude, always forget his name. But they havn't done much.

My profile will be up soon.

I'll edit on to this post. So be sure to check back.

[Xeim]

I don't think Gin's made his big come-back yet. However, Tousen was in the last episode. Won't tell you why, I don't want to ruin anything. I've heard they don't have very big parts in all this though. Its mostly about Aizen and his Espada so thats why you don't see them much.

It looks like the vizard are going to come back in next week's episode. It sounded like Shinji doing the little preview thing, and I saw a couple clips of him and that one chick who he was last seen with. Perhaps we'll find out something more. ^_^

CONTEST!
Well, I know some of us are busy with the RP and everything, but is anyone up to a contest? How's about a "Best Original Zanpukto" contest? I'll leave that open. If it sounds good to you guys then start working on a design. Take your time, I don't need you posting them up for a while yet. But, if no one wants to do this then I obviously can't force you, lol.
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New, or rather taking a crack at the old....

Seeing that the Aizen discussion kinda died, let's bring back one of Rasler's genius ideas.

BLEACH Character Equivalents- Comapering Bleach characters to other character from other anime, video games, TV shows, etc. Even compare friends and family if you want. ^_^

This one kinda flew at me. Kakashi (naruto) and Kisuke.

They're both kinda laid-back and humorus. Kisuke's almost always got his trademark hat, while Kakashi's got his mask. Both can become extremely serious when the situation calls for it, but as soon as danger's past, they're right back to their happy, smiling (well, we can assume on Kakashi's part) selves.

[Yuuki]

Well technically no one is RPing everyones just coming up with their character profile thingy.
It's actually is turning out harder to come up with the background then I thought.
Hmm as for the contest I'm up for it It probably be pretty hard though. But hey thats the point of a contest right.
Kakashi and Kisuke do seam very alike now that you mention it. I'm trying to think who's like Ichigo.

[Rasler]

As long as we're on character equivalents again, Ichigo is similar to Inuyasha.

Oversized swords.
Have almost-romances with female lead characters.
Signature attacks shoot waves of energy.
Both have a barely controllable evil side. (Which is not only exponentially stronger, but cooler too.)
Both are the unofficial leaders of their group.
Stubbornness.
Both have a tendency to almost die a lot.

Rock!

[Xeim]

Character Equivalents: Myojin Yahiko (Rurouni Kenshin) and Jinta (Bleach)

• Both are hard-headed young kids
• Both want to fight, be strong, and take all the credit
• Both usually don't get the above
• Both are rather annoying

Update on RP: A name is currently being worked on for our happy little RP. Any ideas should end up here or in my PM box. I've already got some great ideas, but I want everyone to have a say here. Heh.

[abarai renji]

alright. i've got a comparison.
Kenshin Himora from Ruroni Kenshin and Shunsui Kyoraku.

Both have a samurai-ish fighting style
Both are funny
Both hate fighting, and
they both become serious when forced to fight.

[Rasler]

Chad is similar to Kazuma(S-cry-ed).

Truly nice and caring characters at their core. Chad goes *a bit* overboard though.
Ability is to change their right arm into an empowered armored version.
Brawling-based attacks.
Ability eventually extends to their other arm too.

[jenova33]

*cough* OKay, Jenova33 is most definately still alive and on break from the armed forces. My apologies for never visiting. I'm trying! Anyhow...

I apologize dearly if this has nothing to do with the conversation, but I would have liked to join the RP. However, I dont think I know enough about Bleach and I'm not quite.. uh... caught up on the episodes. Therefore it would be hard for me to RP with others whom know the entire storyline, characters, etc.

Uhm, Captain, if you'd get back to me on any detail about it in a PM, I'd appreciate it. Thank you and I'll most definately make an effort to try and contirbute more to this club since I'm going to be back home for a while. Well thank you, and I'll talk with you all later.

[Xeim]

Hey guys, Snowy here. ^_^

It's really good to see you again jenova. I know I've already said this a million times in a million different places, but its the truth. I've Pm'ed you about the Rp, and so everyone else here knows, Jenova's going to participate.
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Sorry the sign-ups aren't up yet. I feel like I'm failing all of you. I've been working on the post for a while, and it shall be up by the end of today (Sunday the 22 of April) whether it sucks badly or not. After all, it's just the sign-ups. It doesnt really have to be a masterpiece. Make sure you guys double-check your characters and read over all the guidelines before posting.
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Character Equivalents (Sorry for any ToS Spoliers, ToS fans)

Kratos Aurion (Tales of Symphonia) and Kuchiki Byakuya

• They're both related to one of the main characters in their respective worlds.
• They both show little or no emotion (Kratos being the one showing more emotion--usually anger)
• They're both really strong, but are still beaten by resective main characters
• They're both old though they appear young
• They both seem to be evil at first, but are in the end, good guys. (kratos varies in the fact that the characters trust him at first).

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Snowy had a very nice Friday. She got home from school, napped a bit, and then watched BLEACH. The greatness of all this was----Ichimaru Gin was in it for a grand total of about 10 seconds! Yep, he made his grand comeback, but if I remember correctly that's the only scene he has in the whole arrancar arc. Looks like us Gin fans are going to have to suffer a bit longer. (Boo.) Good to see him again, that evil little bastard (god I love him to death---Hitsugaya more though, lol.).
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[Rasler]

As of episode 121, Bleach has had a new opening. It shows a very brief glimpse of full-masked Ichigo.

Foreshadowing? I wouldn't know.

[Xeim]

Yeah, the theme song depressed me. I loved Rolling Star so much...but that's COMPLETElY besides the point.....
The vizard have complete masks when they fight, so perhaps it is foreshadowing

.....supported by.....

In last week's episode, Ichigo

Spoiler: goes to the vizard's lair. He says he's going to use them, but they won't have it. Now he's being attacked by that one young girl. She says she'll kill him if he doesn't bring out his hollow, fight her, and (if she doesn't kill him first) probably in time join them. The episode ended with the beginning of their fight. It lookes like Ichigo IS going to in fact join the vizards--though by force rather than choice.

Outside the spoils...I guess I could sum what I said up into....Ichi's making
progress.

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The RP sign-ups are in fact up for those of you who have profiles to post.

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--Snowy--

[Evangel]

I find the romances quite confusing. I'm only up to the episodes that are airing on [AS], so... Is Ichigo IN LOVE with Rukia or Orihime? I can tell he has strong feelings for Rukia but doesn't Orihime have a crush on him? So confusing...

[Xeim]

It is confusing. It seems Ichigo develops a liking for Rukia, but yes, Orihime obviously likes him. She envies Rukia, who can get to Ichi in the ways she wishes she could. So far, nothing serious has developed though.

And to anyone freaking out, I already gave Jecht the permission to join, so no worries.

Bleach tonight for me! I'm excited. The vizard are going to be in it! Maybe they'll teach Ichi a lesson!
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We need a new discussion...well, let's at least bring trivia back for now. Maybe something will come to us in future


Q: How long has Ichigo "been able to see spirits"?

[Oathkeeper13]

Triva:

Answer: For as long as he can remember.

Question: What does Ichiog have hanging off of his sword in his Ban Kai form?


Here some suggestions on new topics. Let me know if you want to use any of them.

Uuuuuuuuuh

-Ichigo should be with Ruika or Orihime?
-Would you really want to be a sould reaper. (If it was real.)
-Who is your favorite character and why.
-Vs. (If like 2 Sould Reapers fought against each other who would win?)
-End of Bleach (What do you think will happen when Bleach ends. Sad thought.)

Hope this helps.

Sorry I still havn't made my profile for the RP. Sorry i've been busy.

[Xeim]

Oh, I really like the last 2. But lets start with "Vs."

If Rukia fought Orihime, who'd win, and how/why?
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Triva time

A: I cant spell this but...swastika

Q: If Ichi's hollow hadn't come out, would Ichi likely have beaten Byakuya?
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No worries about the RP. But the sooner we start it the better! You're not the only one who hasn't posted though.

[abarai renji]

VS.
it really depends on how much orihime was into the fight. Since she is too kind at nature, she would hold back unless there was good reason. But she would be able to defend herself from most of Rukia's attacks with her sheild. Plus if she got too hurt she could cure herself.
Rukia should be able to easily defeat Orihime if not already defeated before she releases her zanpakuto. Orihime's shield only protects from in front, but if Rukia does that attack where she freezes the ground up, then orihime would be pretty screwed, plus with her whiplike zanpakuto, tsubaki would never be able to get an attack on her.
so i would have to say that the winner would be rukia.