ALIENS!! Real or Not??

[M16]

So your saying that technically we are one big accretion disk if all galaxies are powered by black holes. Therefore it is visible is it not.
What about a Quasar. Doesn't a Quasar give off extreme light and are also believed to be powered by black holes.

Lol we seem to have gone off track. So we are talking theoretically so therefore if all this is theoretical than could it also be theoretical that there is other life out there.

Kind of. When tracking accretion discs, it's easy to track their acceleration. It's not so much for galaxies. Accretion discs also radiate in infrared, which the rotation of galaxies doesn't do. Also, to say a quasar is powered by a black hole is redundant.

[OnOneRyder]

Well, if aliens were in fact real, wouldn't we have realized that hundreds, if not thousands of years ago?

If that were the case, wouldn't we have also realized hundreds or thousands of years ago that the earth was round, revolved around the sun and there are literally trillions of other stars in existence?

I'd like to bring up one point someone mentioned recently to me in a conversation about the existence of god. They spoke about religions for thousands of years looking into the sky for their "gods", religions have spoke of golden discs, beings with human like features with other worldly abilities. All of this pointed towards some greater being, which in the end they decided to be our creator. Without previous interaction with technology such as harnessing energy, advanced metalwork or probably the most shocking of all flight ones first encounter with such beings would instantly bring on a feeling of being the presence of a supreme being or god if you will. There have been many civilizations over centuries who recorded such events in their own ways and without reason to falsify these encounters they only logical answer I can give is the possibility of interacting with extra terrestrial lifeforms. We obviously posed no threat to them in those times so they had little reason to hide from us, but now with the advancement of weapons and most importantly nuclear weapons I think it would be very wise for a much more advanced civilization to be very cautious about approaching our planet. Perhaps to protect themselves, but I like to think that such an advanced species is doing so for OUR best interests because they're quite aware of the devastation we could cause upon ourselves.

Also to address the problems we encounter with space travel, I really suggest anyone interested on the subject pick up A Brief History of Time. It talks about some very interesting theories involving space travel that some of the most brilliant physicists we have reckon could make interstellar travel possible.

[M16]

It talks about some very interesting theories involving space travel that some of the most brilliant physicists we have reckon could make interstellar travel possible.

Care to quote some of these "most brilliant physicists"? Because being involved in studying this sort of thing, most physicists I hear of/read about tend put down the notion, barring some sort of black hole utilization. But then once they bring in the notion of using black holes, they make sure to include the disclaimer that you'd be stretched to the width of the black hole, with the resulting stream of particles so thin that you'd have a 0% chance of survival.

[IrvineKinneas]

The fact that there are like an uncountable amount of different planets and even galaxy's does make you think that there has to be an extra terrestrial living somewhere in this universe! I mean there must be atleast a plant or a microbe of some sort living on another planet even that would be a living organism. To be honest if we do ever find proof of living organisms on a different planet i believe it probably would be some sort of weed.

[Clint]

Here's how I see it, there's a good chance that there's other life out there, but the chance of intelligent life is slim to none. Life can begin anywhere where the climate permits. To further advance in evolution from microorganisms, a planet needs to have similar properties as earth. Concerning how many other planets in direct proportion from the earth to the sun that there are out in this vast cosmos, there's a great chance that other life similar to prehistoric earth life lives. But intelligent life is a different sub-category for another time.

[Sato Arashi]

As much as I don't care about alien life out in the cosmos, but one thing comes down to a very good point. If we are living and breathing on a habitable world like Earth, then there's no doubt that there's aliens out there. Sure we don't know in the vacinity of our cosmic neighborhood because of our current technology, but maybe there's life out there very similar to us.

[Ragtime]

I cannot say with conviction that aliens exist, but I'm pretty certain they exist because it is, in my opinion, a statistical improbability that only one planet out of a countless amount has life on it.

As regards to aliens being extremely advanced and benign is a strange and unjustified stereotype, for all we know, they could be as technologically as advanced and malicious as us humans. In fact, they could be more primitive, thus explaining how we have not had any contact with them (although we may have had contact with them for all I know).

[M16]

I cannot say with conviction that aliens exist, but I'm pretty certain they exist because it is, in my opinion, a statistical improbability that only one planet out of a countless amount has life on it.

As regards to aliens being extremely advanced and benign is a strange and unjustified stereotype, for all we know, they could be as technologically as advanced and malicious as us humans. In fact, they could be more primitive, thus explaining how we have not had any contact with them (although we may have had contact with them for all I know).

So you can not say without conviction, because in your opinion, you're arguing statistics? And they could be technologically advanced, but in fact, they could be primitive? You haven't really said anything. You wrote two paragraphs without expressing a straight opinion and I have no idea what you're trying to argue.

[Fate]

This is an impossible debate to reason with!

However, I still stand by my beliefs that aliens are not real. You see, even if aliens were real, why didn't they come here? I mean, the Earth has been around for billions of years, and since aliens have been said to travel at the speed of light, shouldn't it only take them a few billion years? I'm sure that is they knew of the existence of our civilization, they would've tried to come meet us. After all, if we could confirm that they exist and we could travel at the speed of light as well, wouldn't we like to meet them?

Furthermore, asking if aliens are real or not is the same as asking is the Fountain of Youth real or not! Nobody can know! Sure, Ponce de Leon did set out almost 500 years ago to find it, but he failed miserably. Does that mean that the Fountain of Youth doesn't exist? Of course not! If just means that no one has ever found it yet, whether it does or does not exist.

Same thing with ghosts. Who can say that they've seen a ghost? Hell, if a take a pencil and drew a squiggly circle with five smaller circles inside, can't I call that a ghost? Who can argue with me there? They can't go, "That's not a ghost; ghost have a speech bubble-like figure!" How would they know what it looks like? Have they ever seen one?

See? Aliens are the same. Even if I say that they aren't real, nobody is going to believe me. If I switch my belief around and say that they are real, nobody is going to believe me. Either way, there will never be a full agreement unless an actual alien has been captured. The debate is contradictory...

[Clint]

You see, even if aliens were real, why didn't they come here? I mean, the Earth has been around for billions of years, and since aliens have been said to travel at the speed of light, shouldn't it only take them a few billion years? I'm sure that is they knew of the existence of our civilization, they would've tried to come meet us. After all, if we could confirm that they exist and we could travel at the speed of light as well, wouldn't we like to meet them?

Humans are hostile. We go to war with ourselves, so why would an alien risk arriving on earth? Besides, even if they can travel at the speed of light, it'll still take them around 10,000 years to get here, and being as not many things can live that long, I'd say that by the time their ship arrived, they would all be dead. That is, though, assuming that the generic alien-type being even exists at all.

Furthermore, asking if aliens are real or not is the same as asking is the Fountain of Youth real or not! Nobody can know! Sure, Ponce de Leon did set out almost 500 years ago to find it, but he failed miserably. Does that mean that the Fountain of Youth doesn't exist? Of course not! If just means that no one has ever found it yet, whether it does or does not exist.

Well, since it's been searched for for nearly five hundred years, it's pretty safe to assume that the fountain of youth is pure mythology. Ponce de Leon was into science fiction stories, and heard about the fountain of youth from a story written by Jules Vern's great great great grandfather, Vernen Vern. You can't listen to guys like that, because science fiction is purely that; fiction.

Same thing with ghosts. Who can say that they've seen a ghost?

I know the answer to this. People who can say that they've seen a ghost are people who claim to have seen a ghost. That doesn't mean that they're telling the truth. In all honesty, they've probably just heard too many ghost stories for their own good, and just assume that any creepy feeling or noise, or anything that goes bump in the night has to be a ghost.

Either way, there will never be a full agreement unless an actual alien has been captured.

Even then there wouldn't be a full agreement, because the most likely scenario would be for the alien to fall into the hands of the government, and the secret of extraterrestrial life will be held next to the files of the secret Soviet CIA operations, the missing parts to the Watergate tapes, and the identity of Kennedy's true assassin.

[Syphion]

This is an impossible debate to reason with!

However, I still stand by my beliefs that aliens are not real. You see, even if aliens were real, why didn't they come here? I mean, the Earth has been around for billions of years, and since aliens have been said to travel at the speed of light, shouldn't it only take them a few billion years? I'm sure that is they knew of the existence of our civilization, they would've tried to come meet us. After all, if we could confirm that they exist and we could travel at the speed of light as well, wouldn't we like to meet them?

Furthermore, asking if aliens are real or not is the same as asking is the Fountain of Youth real or not! Nobody can know! Sure, Ponce de Leon did set out almost 500 years ago to find it, but he failed miserably. Does that mean that the Fountain of Youth doesn't exist? Of course not! If just means that no one has ever found it yet, whether it does or does not exist.

Same thing with ghosts. Who can say that they've seen a ghost? Hell, if a take a pencil and drew a squiggly circle with five smaller circles inside, can't I call that a ghost? Who can argue with me there? They can't go, "That's not a ghost; ghost have a speech bubble-like figure!" How would they know what it looks like? Have they ever seen one?

See? Aliens are the same. Even if I say that they aren't real, nobody is going to believe me. If I switch my belief around and say that they are real, nobody is going to believe me. Either way, there will never be a full agreement unless an actual alien has been captured. The debate is contradictory...

There is no doubt in my mind that there's some other lifeforms in this blank huge space void. Now reasons why Aliens have not come to meet us yet, well there can be several guesses.

1: Believe it or not as a species we are pretty barbaric. We feast on other living animals and also conflict with one another despite us being both HUMAN. Probably Aliens see no reason why to meet a species that cannot unite within their own, how can they believe they can communicate with us?

2: Realizing the vastness of space and the galaxies, perhaps there's no technology yet in the universe powerful enough to connect galaxies together and travel from planet to planet. Not to mention the probability of them hitting on our solar system specifically or planet is very low.

3: Most unlikely but wth . There is some type of barbaric being out there that has destroyed countless planets. We just happen to dodge a bullet (not likely but nothing wrong with making an unlikely guess ^^).

All in all, we cannot exclude the fact that there's another lifeform out there.

[Ralz]

On the subject of aliens, I go both ways. They've been in recent movies, more like MOST of them. Aliens, aliens, aliens! My god! Enough aliens! There's no possible way to prove they do or don't exist, unless you are able to travel the ENTIRE universe. Also, what if its possible that in reaility, WE'RE the aliens!? For all we know, there could exist another planet where everyone looks the same as we do. Besides, even if aliens did come down, the government would never let it slip. Ever. So, believe that which you will, I cannot say, and neither can anyone else.

[Shadow Of Darkness]

I belive that aliens exsist.I mean the space is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUGE place ! there aint no chance that we are alone! I just hope that of all the movies about invasion that I watched would come true..

[Ralz]

I just hope that of all the movies about invasion that I watched would come true..

So... you actually WANT to either be annihilated, captured, or tested on? Although, that WOULD be interesting...

[Shadow Of Darkness]

So... you actually WANT to either be annihilated, captured, or tested on? Although, that WOULD be interesting...

Dammit,me and my sucky english ! hehe I was trying to type WOULDN'T ! hehe small mistake..

[FFMasterFF]

O, COME ON of course they are real do u really think that we are the only living creatures out of BILLIONS AND ALOT MORE PLANETS, well i think that the US Army did find an alien and a UFO and if you want pictures of Roswell (The aliens name) then type it in Google.

[M16]

O, COME ON of course they are real do u really think that we are the only living creatures out of BILLIONS AND ALOT MORE PLANETS, well i think that the US Army did find an alien and a UFO and if you want pictures of Roswell (The aliens name) then type it in Google.

Yo, FYI. Roswell is a place. Not an alien. FTL.

[OnOneRyder]

This is an impossible debate to reason with!

However, I still stand by my beliefs that aliens are not real. You see, even if aliens were real, why didn't they come here? I mean, the Earth has been around for billions of years, and since aliens have been said to travel at the speed of light, shouldn't it only take them a few billion years? I'm sure that is they knew of the existence of our civilization, they would've tried to come meet us. After all, if we could confirm that they exist and we could travel at the speed of light as well, wouldn't we like to meet them?

The universe is so incredibly vast that even if life were "common" the likely interaction between lifeforms would be very very rare. The distances between star systems similar to our own which we believe to be best at supporting life like ours is immense and even traveling at the speed of light limits travel within our own galaxy. There's nothing to say that they didn't stop by several thousands if not tens of thousands of years ago and moved on with the plan of stopping another few millenia down the road when they might see something particularly interesting. You have to remember that there are billions of stars in our galaxy which means possibly tens of billions of planets. What are the chances that if I put billions of quarters on the ground that you'd pick the one named earth? It's all about numbers, and when it comes to the universe numbers are huge....so ours doesn't come up very often.

Also you say if they knew about us...well unfortunately they probably don't yet. We've only really been advertising ourselves over the last 100 years, so unless they're within 100 light years theres a 0% chance of them knowing life exists here. Our radio waves we've been blasting out into space have only just started to make their way across our part of the galaxy, there's a lot more to go.

There's actually a mathematical equation called the drake equation that addresses the likelihood of life elsewhere. It takes in a lot of factors, and determines that the chance of extraterrestrial life is quite high. The problem is that many people believe that most advanced civilizations end up destroying themselves very early on. Look at ourselves, we're literally a few pushes of some buttons away from total annihilation.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../large_web.jpg
http://www.on.br/site_edu_dist_2008/...deep_field.jpg
When you click on the link the 3100x3100 res image shows a lot of background particles that look like dust, those are simply more galaxies at extremely large distances.


This is by far the best image to put things into perspective as far as I'm concerned. It's an image comprised of hundreds of exposures which added up to about 13 days of light entering the lens. There are over 10,000 objects visible nearly all of which are galaxies. Each of those galaxies is home to billions of stars and each of those stars could have a planetary system of it's own. Now when you take into consideration that the image is a patch of sky only about 1/100th the size of the moon as visible from earth you start to realize exactly how much there is out there. Kind of foolish to assume because they haven't stumbled upon our insignificant rock yet that there's no one else out there.

[Fate]

This debate is impossible! However, there are more reasons to say "no" than "yes" for this matter.

Nobody has any prove whatsoever that they exist! Now you can't say that backwards, and argue with the fact that nobody has proven that they don't exist. Doing so is useless because when a person brings forth a myth or theory, the only proof that they need is why that theory or myth could exist, not why they couldn't.

Therefore, this debate can't ever lean towards saying "Yes, they do exist" unless there is actual proof! A myth is to be proven with proof, not disproving with the same argument that "I don't have any proof that aliens don't exist.

[OnOneRyder]

Science is just having a theory and then giving evidence to back it up, it's not proving in absolutes because science constantly moves forward to new discoveries on topics we previously believed we knew all about.

No, there are not more reason to say no than yes. The only reason to say there isn't is that we haven't found them yet. There are infinite reasons that life does exist and it surrounds us entirely. Within our own solar system the earth is very unique but when you accept that there are billions upon billions of other planets the likelihood that none are like ours is very slim. Life sparked here, the odds of it not sparking elsewhere isn't very likely. The universe is primarily composed of things not even visible to the human eye, do you deny their existence as well?

edit ~ no debates are impossible. If that were the case the church would still be deciding whats what and stephen hawking would be a witch

[Fate]

Then are cryptids real as well? Do you believe that the Loch Ness Monster exists in the lake Loch Ness in Scotland? Because according to you, anything can exist, it just hasn't been proven yet.

And you'd think that after thousands of year, humans wouldn't give up on finding aliens? I'm sure nobody is looking for the Fountain of Youth anymore because they probably think that it's unreal. However, why is it that this debate about aliens is still raging on?

There are no facts confirming the existence of aliens, and we have searched time and itme again. I think it's finally safe to conclude that they don't exist!

[OnOneRyder]

Then are cryptids real as well? Do you believe that the Loch Ness Monster exists in the lake Loch Ness in Scotland? Because according to you, anything can exist, it just hasn't been proven yet.

And you'd think that after thousands of year, humans wouldn't give up on finding aliens? I'm sure nobody is looking for the Fountain of Youth anymore because they probably think that it's unreal. However, why is it that this debate about aliens is still raging on?

There are no facts confirming the existence of aliens, and we have searched time and itme again. I think it's finally safe to conclude that they don't exist!

Not to belittle you..but you really have very little knowledge on this subject. We in fact have done very little searching. The only groups actively searching for life are funded privately by enthusiasts with deep pockets with relatively small radio telescopes. Most of the listening we do into space is listening to radiowaves to learn about the structures of space, not for life. There are no government funded searches for life but there should be IMO. It would be a huge turning point in recognizing our place in the universe.

You cannot compare life on other planets to that of the existence to mythical creatures on our own planet. I said the LIKELIHOOD of alien lifeforms existing is high simply because of the probability of it. Do not patronize yourself by comparing extraterrestrial life with the loch ness monster, you only make yourself look even more uninformed.

Um...searching for thousands of years? Alien life will not be found by sight, it's simply not practical. We can barely make out planets in our own solar system let alone in other star systems. The technology to actually look has only existed in the last century and it is being used for other means. To actually search for life elsewhere practically is going to take a huge financial investment.

As far as actually being visited by aliens..once again it's a matter of numbers and the odds simply are too big to be likely that we'd be stumbled upon. Unless an alien lifeformed just happened to point it's telescopes towards our sun, there is no reason to assume anything special is taking place on our planet that sets it appart from the trillions of other stars.

[Fate]

And how would you know what the likelihood of aliens existing really is? I don't suppose someone has done research on it, right? A guy did that in the 1960's, but hardly anyone even remembers that.

And actually, no, the comparison does have its reasons. Why is it that you choose to believe aliens exist, but not other things? All myths have been backed up with facts, but yet, you say aliens could exist, and when I try to bring up cryptids, you say they have nothing to do with this? Do those who believe that aliens could exist because of a little mathematical equation also believe that there is a chance that demons and angels are real as well?

[OnOneRyder]

How would I know? Because judging by your comprehension on the subject, I've read everything you possibly have and then countless books more along with hundreds of hours of classroom knowledge. Cosmology has been a passion of mine since I was young, I like to think I'm fairly knowledgeable

I understand that comparing two beings which have not been proven to exist has it's similarities but that's as far as they go, not being proven. The loch ness monster is a creature said to exist in one small body of water which has been searched many times. Nothing has come up, and there is no supporting evidence to it's existence. To be as thorough in the search for extraterrestrials as we have for earth bound creatures we would need to spend literally billions of hours looking at every single planet for a radio signal for evidence of intelligent life, and then if none is present actually visit that planet to search for the existence of microscopic life or simply life which is not technologically advanced. It's like comparing looking into a shoebox and looking into a bottomless pit.

As far as your comment on angels and demons, I'm talking about physical beings which live as life on earth does only on another planet. Those are things science CAN prove with time. Science cannot prove or disprove the supernatural. Then again, supernatural entities are defined as how we perceive them.

[Syphion]

Then are cryptids real as well? Do you believe that the Loch Ness Monster exists in the lake Loch Ness in Scotland? Because according to you, anything can exist, it just hasn't been proven yet.

And you'd think that after thousands of year, humans wouldn't give up on finding aliens? I'm sure nobody is looking for the Fountain of Youth anymore because they probably think that it's unreal. However, why is it that this debate about aliens is still raging on?

There are no facts confirming the existence of aliens, and we have searched time and itme again. I think it's finally safe to conclude that they don't exist!

Loch Ness Monster and figuring out if there's existing life in our universe are totally different entities. These things such as fountain of youth, loch ness monsters, these are myths HOWEVER, figuring out if life exists in this universe is not because SCIENCE CAN PROVE IT. Sooner or later the human race will develop technology advance enough for us to travel planet to planet and perhaps someday meet a new species from another planet. Also, you're saying that out of the MANY galaxies that exist in our universe, you are stating the fact that there's NO probability such beings exist. We cannot give a conclusion on what we do not know therefore we cannot say that we know whether they exist or not, not until we're advanced far enough so that we can accumulate evidence to support our statements

[Fate]

Science can prove it, but science hasn't proven it yet.

How would anyone know whether or not you can divide aliens and cryptids into separate categories. Both are classified as myths. You can't call aliens science just because of some complicated formulas and physics. They are what some person suddenly thought, and that sparked new ideas in other people. Therefore, it's a myth!

Likewise, I can also say that, say, devils existing is also science. All I gotta do is get someone to calculate the possibilities of them existing somewhere like the center of the Earth. I can argue the fact that nobody has ever been to the center of the Earth yet, so how would they know devils don't exist there? I just need to come up with a mathematical equation like that of aliens existing.

Until the time comes that there is actual prove that aliens do, indeed, exist, I refuse to believe in a myth.

[Syphion]

Science can prove it, but science hasn't proven it yet.

How would anyone know whether or not you can divide aliens and cryptids into separate categories. Both are classified as myths. You can't call aliens science just because of some complicated formulas and physics. They are what some person suddenly thought, and that sparked new ideas in other people. Therefore, it's a myth!

I am not calling it science based on formulas and physics. I call it science because that is what going to prove if they really exist or not. All i am saying is that it's illogical to rule out the fact that other lifeforms exist in this vast universe. Facts such as the world being flat has been gone against by the once large "myth" of the world being round. And what has happened? Someone actually scientifically and discovered it was not flat but round. Not to mention our minimum comprehension of this vast universe itself, we cannot draw to such quick conclusions without exploring it further enough

[OnOneRyder]

Science can prove it, but science hasn't proven it yet.

How would anyone know whether or not you can divide aliens and cryptids into separate categories. Both are classified as myths. You can't call aliens science just because of some complicated formulas and physics. They are what some person suddenly thought, and that sparked new ideas in other people. Therefore, it's a myth!

Likewise, I can also say that, say, devils existing is also science. All I gotta do is get someone to calculate the possibilities of them existing somewhere like the center of the Earth. I can argue the fact that nobody has ever been to the center of the Earth yet, so how would they know devils don't exist there? I just need to come up with a mathematical equation like that of aliens existing.

Until the time comes that there is actual prove that aliens do, indeed, exist, I refuse to believe in a myth.

Science HAS proven the loch ness monster to in fact not exist. They have done sonar searches of the lock, nothing was there which indicated a giant serpent like creature.

It's not a equation that was made up to prove aliens exist. It gives us a probability of planets being able to host life similar to our own. Once again, don't attempt to discredit something which you have no knowledge on.

We ourselves would be classified as an alien species to any other form of life in the universe. So unless we are the sole creation of some supernatural god, the math says there's a very slim chance life does not, or has not existed elsewhere.

We've only just started to understand basic principles as to the existence of the cosmos. We know very little about how things work now and we know nearly nothing about WHY they do.

Simply questioning their existence does not disprove their existence nor does comparing them to mythology. To do so shows you're not very knowledgeable on the subject.

[M16]

OnOneRyder, there actually is a significant amount of research in the way of looking for life on other planets. Look up Astrobiology. There are even several US universities that offer majors/minors in the subject.

You've gotten very far off-topic here. Instead of debating whether there is life on other planets, you're now debating whether science is science.

[Shadow Of Darkness]

I once saw a green light falling of the sky and then rising again up..I as a bit scared..but that was almost 8 years ago..