Abortion: Your Views...

[Yuki-onna]

I don't think it's right for someone else to decide what happens to another living being (I guess that means humans here) without their consent. A developing embryo isn't going to be able to tell a desperate "mother" whether it wants to live or not.

That would be my point as well. I think, no matter what your situation, any life deserves a chance. You don't know what your child will grow up to be, no. You don't know if he'll be happy, succesful, a bum, an abusive alcoholic. No one can make you what you are. Did I become a serial killer just because I got slapped around as a kid and a teenager? No. I grew up thinking I want to help people like me, and I think I can make a difference in this world.

And I will.

I think it's utterly selfish to put your wants and needs before that of an unborn. Everyone, EVERYONE deserves a chance, and I don't think it's for anyone to decide to take that away. How would you feel if you had your chances taken away because someone deemed it better because oh, well, it's not a good time for me right now. And you might not turn out so well, so I'll just squish you out of existance. And the saddest thing is when you do that to an unborn child, they'll never even realize it. Which I don't think is humane: I think it's horrible cruel.

I'd say: take responsibility. No, you don't have to raise the child. Yes, there is adoption. You're not just throwing it to a stranger. The parent can make full decisions with the future parents, get to know them, even stay in contact and still be a part of the child's family. Don't be cold and heartless. There are so many good things in this world. Give a person a chance to experience them.



Again, just my opinion. I respect other people's, just as I hope mine is respected too.

[Che]

I am of the opinion that the father and mother are the final conclusion on the decision to get an abortion or not. I don't believe in the government interfering with the decision.

However, with that being said, I believe the government should fund as many adoption places for parents to have the option to have the child, and then have it be taken care of.

Ultimately, it was your parents who decided, whether directly or indirectly to have you all. It's there choice to bring you into the world or not. Some people don't get the chance, so each and every one of you posting should be grateful of your life.

Also, I'm not completely solid on my views. I am willing to change them should a better conclusion be proposed to me. For now, this is what I think.

[Pete]

I feel that abortion isn't one of the best options out there, but sometimes it's necessary. I feel that if the mother's life is going to be jeopardized by the birth of the child, then it should be done. While it might be seen as playing God in that case, isn't it also playing God if you know that the birth of the child could kill the mother, and you decide to let the birth happen?

I also feel that in cases of rape, abortion should be an option 100% of the time, all the time. If someone violates you like that and you wind up getting pregnant from it, you should have the option of getting rid of it. Nobody asked if you wanted to have a child, it was forced on you.

I don't think that it should be alright in cases of stupid kids experimenting and not using rubbers. It's a completely different argument talking about sex ed in schools, but I think that schools should know enough to teach that sex leads to babies. "But oh no, I'll never be able to go to prom if I'm pregnant!" Well good job there Miss Sally Prom Queen, next time use a rubber. For now, you're gonna be stuck changing diapers.

Cartman said it best on South Park last Wednesday. He said that abortions were essentially cheating in life. Why should rich white girls be able to afford abortions when they screw up, but minorities who can't afford it be stuck with kids, essentially ruining their lives?

Lastly, I think that all registered sex offenders should have their tubes tied/ get vasectomies. We don't need any of that shit.


I guess to some it up, abortions for some, miniature American flags for all!

[Unknown Entity]

I believe its only murder if the being is conscious, where as this abortion, the child doesn't really have a say in the deal.

OK... but if someone were to be stabbed in the street, you wouldn't have a say in the the deal either.

That DOES NOT mean i compare abortion to being stabbed in the street! It was just an example, thats all, lol!

What i did forget to add in my part at the start was is that i could disagree with abortion all i like, but i have to admit, it can be used at times. I just think its really stupid when people constantly use abortion as a contraceptive - and trust me, it IS in the area i live in now. Abortion to me shouldn't be used so... freely. A lot of people i know have put themselve through this more than once, and you would have thought they would have learnt from the first time!

If it was used to, like some have said before, protect the mothers or babys life, and to abort a rapists child, then fair enough. Maybe if the mother is too young, but like i said before, if she felt big enough to have sex, she should think her self big enough to raise a child if she becomes pregnant - it seems to be an occupational hazard, having under-age sex, lol! Esspecially in my area...

[Crazy Chocobo]

Well, I personally believe in abortion BUT I only believe in it if the Mother of the child knows that the baby is going to suffer it's whole life or have complications. That's really the only time I agree with it. If a Mother accidentally gets pregnant and doesn't want the child but the child is healthy, I would consider it sick if she aborted that child. There are adoption agencies out there where that child could go and they will more than likely grow up living a healthy and happy life. Killing it is just the wrong answer in my opinion in that situation.

Not everybody would agree with me in the way that terminating a child that will suffer it's whole life but that's just the way I see it. I don't mean all disabled children, I mean someone who will REALLY suffer after birth. Would you want to live your whole life like that? There are terrible diseases out there that would not be great to have. Terminating a child which isn't formed properly for some reason isn't good either, let them have a chance at life I say.

I wasn't even going to post in this thread but I did. >< Just wanted to add my opinion about the matter.

[ChloChloAriadne]

I have a few things to say about this.

I believe life begins at conception. Fetus - alive. Embryo - alive. Zygote, even. Alive.

I believe that people should have to apply for abortion, and for it not to be available to everybody. Rape? That's a tough one, but as El Wray said, being a product of rape does not change the fact that this is a living creature. Carry it out and put it up for adoption, I say.

The one exception, I believe, is illness.

Often an ectopic pregnancy will kill both the baby and the mother eventually. There is.. No point in leaving it there. And there are other cases of illness where the baby is going to kill the mother, or both will die.

I believe that these are the only cases in which abortion should be accepted.

[Draken Benvolaid]

I agree whole heartedly with you Froggie, as I said before.

If you give the child up, he or she is no longer your child. You may still have some feelings for hime or her, but no longer yours to take care of. Hopefully the child will have a great family to take him or her in as it's own. Even foster families are good as well for children.

[Seiffy08]

Abortion to me will always be evil. However, even if abortion clinics didn't exist women would be throwing more children into dumpsters. So I can't really blame the clinics. I can understand a womans feelings if shes raped, and she knows the child will be a constant reminder of it. But even still its not the childs fault. Abortion sucks. Why must children always suffer for the sins of the parents?

[Furore]

I couldn't help but notice a lot of people mentioning adoption. And oh yes some adoptive parents/foster parents can be totally awesome and all, but I've noticed here a lot of the people put through that system don't turn out too well. Be it due to the identity crisis, to being resentful of being juggled through a dozen foster families, to just being pissed off at how the government departments handle things.

I'm not saying it's all of them BUT it was my ex-sister (a kleptomaniac who could be quite insincere and get people onside), this girl I knew (just a tad free with the... 'favours'), half the druggies I knew (yeah a good percentage of them weren't with their real parents), or even with one of my old mates who had a darker side at times concerning his past who in the end decided to join a gang that wanted him for his strength. A high percentage of them are quite ****ed up, moreso than any other demographic I know.

A lot of them are also abused or treated almost like slaves by their adoptive parents, I've seen that a few times too. I know a lot of good people who were adopted, but then I know even more bad sorts. Is it right for me to group most of these guys as I am? Hell no. But I do it from my experiences with most of them.

[Yuki-onna]

Well Silver, sadly, that happens a lot in normal families who keep their kids, too. I wish to Pie I'd been given up for adoption. My childhood was something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

It's impossible to consider the odds. This could go wrong. That could go wrong. It's not a choice, it's a child. Everyone, everyone deserves a chance. I think it's wrong to say well, he might be a serial killer. Or he could be a doctor. You don't know. You can't. But you can give them the chance to become. That is life. That is why we're all here. Because we were given a chance. I think it's awful to take that away.

I guess that's all I have to say on the matter.

[winterborn86]

I belive in the 1st fing unknonw entity said, abortion is murder, even tho the babys not been born its still alive and gettin an abortion is killing it out of your own free will which makes it murder

If someone doesnt want a baby that bad, then they should have it put up for adoption, cos there are hundreds of people out there who cant have children and would give their right arm for a baby, an also you could end up gettin attched 2 the baby durning the pregnancy and end up wanting to keep it.

[Furore]

Well Silver, sadly, that happens a lot in normal families who keep their kids, too. I wish to Pie I'd been given up for adoption. My childhood was something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

It's impossible to consider the odds. This could go wrong. That could go wrong. It's not a choice, it's a child. Everyone, everyone deserves a chance. I think it's wrong to say well, he might be a serial killer. Or he could be a doctor. You don't know. You can't. But you can give them the chance to become. That is life. That is why we're all here. Because we were given a chance. I think it's awful to take that away.

I guess that's all I have to say on the matter.

Aye, I was playing Devil's Advocate. I just feel some people are thinking way too highly of adoption/fostering. There are times when everyone wins, sure, but there are even more times when things just go down the toilet.

Some people even do wish they'd never been born as a result of not feeling like they have an identity, having been juggled around every few weeks/months/years. And one would be very wrong to say there weren't a lot of bad eggs in the system. My proof? What I've seen.

Everyone does deserve a chance, but at what cost? It's not something to decide lightly. I stated before I'd do everything in my power to stop a child of mine from being aborted as I'd do my all to give the child a good life, but I'm not everyone, and knowing enough people, sometimes abortion could be for the best. No-one deserves as poor a quality of life as I've seen some live.

[Sinister]

Nothing can replace the joys of living. Everyone should have that chance, no one should be denied on the basis of inconvenience.

Even if the fact that every zygote is genetically different to a degree of both it's parents doesn't convince you that it is alive. Think of the logic. Without taking this particular action a living creature would be born. You take this action and it prevents this. How is that not murder in at least one mild sense? Now technically, I know, that people could have the same thing applied to them if they never have sex(I have fought this battle before). But you must realize that having sex is the taking of an action that produces life whilst abortion is the taking of an action that prevents it.


Either way, I'm against it. I cannot stop my gf(soon to be wife) from taking it, if she feels she must. But if she ever did...I would leave her.

-Sin

[Sasquatch]

Alright, I don't have much time, and I apologize for not being on for a while (Army school in Utah for two weeks, plus Charter screwing up my internet service again), but I figured I'd come in and drop a few points.

First ... rape. A common argument for abortion is "in the case of rape". Of the millions upon millions of abortions done in America (I think it's around 75 million, but that's hazy), something like 1.5% are claimed to be because of rape. And that's those that have claimed to be from rape -- not requiring a police report or anything, just the claim of impregnation by rape.

Second, Sinister made a good point concerning the stopping of a life being formed as compared to the ending of a preexisting life. This is another common argument -- that it's just the same as an egg or sperm being otherwise "wasted". If an egg is flushed from a woman's system without being used, or a sperm is thrown away in a tissue, that's an egg or a sperm -- that's it. That's all they would ever be. Do all you want to a sperm, and it will forever be a sperm, and same with an egg. So comparing abortion to masturbation is simply a no-go.

I will concede that America's adoption program needs a serious re-vamping. It's difficult for parents to adopt today to the point that we adopt children from other countries while ignoring those from our own, because there are millions of parents on waiting lists to adopt a child here in America that will forever be tangled in red tape. But just because it's difficult to give children better lives doesn't mean we should slaughter them instead.

Anyway, gotta go, just had some time here at the lye-berry and noticed this thread. Hope y'all are doing well, and I'll be back on when I can.

[Yuki-onna]

Well, I think adoption has become better than in previous times. Nowadays there's open adoption, the birth parent can remain involved to an extent of getting pictures and updates, or even participating in parenting. That way, there's a way for the birthparent(s) to keep an eye on the kid.

And there are a lot of reasons to consider adoption. You're young, you're uneducated, you're poor. What can you offer a child? Love, yes. What about education? Nutrition? Safety? Sure, adoption is a gamble. But there are so many requirements needed to be an adoptive set of parents. You can't just say well, I want a kid so...who's up for grabs? You HAVE to have a stable environment and history to prove you could provide for the child(ren). And the birth parents, unless they don't want to, have the power to choose who they want to give the child to.

Adoption isn't easy. Giving up a child is one of the hardest things on earth. He/she's a part of you. Your flesh and blood, and you're giving him/her to people you've only known for a matter of months. It's still a brave decision. You're doing what you think is best for your child: providing a stable environment. That's all you can do as a parent: do the best you can, and hope for the best.


Oh, about sperm/eggs being..."wasted"...I never got that, as you said, seeds/eggs are lost naturally, too. I can't save an egg my body jacked because it wasn't fertilized. Do I need to make sure everyone that gets released should get fertilized? Man. I'd have to get pregnant at 13. And it'd be super tough for guys. They'd have to find about 1,000,000,000 eggs to endow with their genes every month or so. Or everytime they have a wet dream. Sheesh...

No, I think an egg/sperm cell is just that. Not until they're combined, are they actually fulfilling their purpose.

Like braincells.

Too many sniffs of the sharpie, this one.

[Furore]

You HAVE to have a stable environment and history to prove you could provide for the child(ren). And the birth parents, unless they don't want to, have the power to choose who they want to give the child to.

That differs from country to country unfortunately. I have seen a lot of kids in bad families just as the parents thought the money the government would pay them for the child was good.

Unfortunately, government payments aren't enough to properly look after the child in question, let alone be a good cash supply. And there may be checks for people wanting to foster/adapt, if they are they MUST be very easy to get around. I've seen plenty of them in the care of druggies who wanted a little extra government money.

But yeah, chances are it'd differ from country to country. Actually crap like that is part of why I wonder if Australia would benefit from being an Anarcho-capitalist society. Too many government **** ups.

[Storm]

I think it should be legal. If it is a phoetus- in a state of little more than a bunch of cells, its not much more of a living being than say some skin cells. If the mother does not feel ready to have the baby, she should not have to go through the process of holding it, birthing it and giving it post-natal care (breast milk afterall will give a baby most of the essential antibodies it will need in life). There are many people who are not ready for children, and the stress of child delivery should not be forced upon them. If, god forbid, I fell pregnant now, I would have an abortion because one, I am at university and will not kill my future career prospects, two I cannot afford it, three I am a very vain person, and finally, even though I am quite a mature person I don't believe I have grown up enough to take on looking after a child.

If abortion was seen as less of a sin, I believe that more people would look for this as a solution. There are many people who do not deserve to have children, they bring them up poorly, but unfortunatly no resrictions can be placed upon this due to human rights. Plus, many adoption centres are struggling to find people willing to adopt children. Of course, there are limits to what I feel is right. If the foetus is in a developed state (I am unsure of the time they take to grow, but when when it's begining to function as an actual living organism), it should not be legal for it to be aborted. This, I feel IS unethical. However, undeveloped foetuses should be okay to be aborted, so as well as freeing the mother of a burden, the foetus can be used for stem cell research. Stem cell research is beginning to evolve, and in some cases, things like neurones have been nurtured. This could aid the living, helping a paralysed person to regain mobility.

[Mr Spike]

My two cents about this is that you must have a justifiable reason before abortion should take place.

Take such an act as rape, for instance. If someone got pregnant through that, and had the child, its fair to say that having that child may make them never forget the act that happened to them - in this case i believe that abortion is acceptable.

Having said that, wanting an abortion simply because of a stupid, drunken 1 night stand should not be considered a just reason. Ultimately, getting drunk and getting pregnant was YOUR choice - you had the chance not to do so.

Then there's the case of teenage pregnancy. Same as above. There was a story in the newspapers a few years ago about a 12 year old who got pregnant. Now this is interesting - who can say that she was ready for giving birth at that age? Should there be an age, below which you are legible for an abortion regardless of the context?

Those who are against abortion have argued that is can be classified as murder. However, since the child is not yet born, can they be considered "alive"? If your definition of alive is having a heartbeat and so forth, then yes, it is murder. However, since the child, at this point is still developing and is mostly unaware of its surroundings, then can you consider it to be alive?

So, summing it up, it really depends on HOW you got pregnant to determine if abortion should go ahead or not.

[Saransoah]

As an American, I believe that no human has the right to take away another human's rights unless those rights threatened the rights of another person.

So like I said, once the baby is concieived it should have rights, if for nothing else but because it will change shape into a body. This body is a human, and nothing anywhere should be able to deny this human its rights as long as it does not threaten the rights of another. Destroying a fetus by abortion should be illegal because it is preventing a human being from having rights. You may still say: "The "human" is just a bunch of cells at the time, and therefore is only thus: a bunch of cells that has no rights." This is true, except for one thing: The bunch of cells will become a human with rights, and denying that human those rights by destroying the cells is not only a logical matter but should be illegal everywhere and is the same as destroying a fully grown human or a child human. It does not matter if you were raped so badly that your vagina is sterile or if you are a pregnant man you are scarred for life, you have no right to deny the rights of another human unless that human threatens your right to rights (or right to life)

Now, on an occasion where abortion should be permitted. If a mother is told by her doctors that if she continues to have a baby and does not have an abortion, the baby will survive and she will die, she should be able to make a choice. Because not only does she have the possibility in most cases to create another human baby with rights, she herself has rights that should be protected. Rights balance rights in this situation, and if the mother gives her life for her baby I consider her extremly valient and worthy of paradise in another life, but if she chooses to abort the baby than it should be protected under the law.

Unfortunatly, 100% of the time it is not 100% clear whether the baby truly will kill the mother in dangerous scenarios, so I defeinitly believe that a mother should take the chance and try and have the baby.

Oh yes, and important point I would like to add is that the right to life and the right to have rights(which go together) is the most important right of all, the right to your personal happiness does not outweight another persons right to life, happiness, property, etc etc. This is all assuming that the cells will become a human, and this is true in basically every case...If you can find a case where it is not true than kudos to you and please post.

What should an abortion that should be illegal be punishable by? That is an interesting question.

[Furore]

As an American, I believe that no human has the right to take away another human's rights unless those rights threatened the rights of another person.

So like I said, once the baby is concieived it should have rights, if for nothing else but because it will change shape into a body. This body is a human, and nothing anywhere should be able to deny this human its rights as long as it does not threaten the rights of another. Destroying a fetus by abortion should be illegal because it is preventing a human being from having rights. You may still say: "The "human" is just a bunch of cells at the time, and therefore is only thus: a bunch of cells that has no rights." This is true, except for one thing: The bunch of cells will become a human with rights, and denying that human those rights by destroying the cells is not only a logical matter but should be illegal everywhere and is the same as destroying a fully grown human or a child human. It does not matter if you were raped so badly that your vagina is sterile or if you are a pregnant man you are scarred for life, you have no right to deny the rights of another human unless that human threatens your right to rights (or right to life)

Now, on an occasion where abortion should be permitted. If a mother is told by her doctors that if she continues to have a baby and does not have an abortion, the baby will survive and she will die, she should be able to make a choice. Because not only does she have the possibility in most cases to create another human baby with rights, she herself has rights that should be protected. Rights balance rights in this situation, and if the mother gives her life for her baby I consider her extremly valient and worthy of paradise in another life, but if she chooses to abort the baby than it should be protected under the law.

Unfortunatly, 100% of the time it is not 100% clear whether the baby truly will kill the mother in dangerous scenarios, so I defeinitly believe that a mother should take the chance and try and have the baby.

Oh yes, and important point I would like to add is that the right to life and the right to have rights(which go together) is the most important right of all, the right to your personal happiness does not outweight another persons right to life, happiness, property, etc etc. This is all assuming that the cells will become a human, and this is true in basically every case...If you can find a case where it is not true than kudos to you and please post.

Firstly, well said. That's the type of post that would make me question any beliefs I held differently. I love how you tied the stereotypical view of American freedoms in. Sure, there'd be Americans that felt differently, but the same thing would apply for all kinds of people. Some would be for, some against.

Your argument was slightly flawed in that you mentioned a reason being that the cells would become a body (just in that they aren't already one, and therefore not in possession of the same rights as people with 'formed bodies'), but that flaw was covered by how as a potential human they should have their right to life and future freedoms preserved.

I will however disagree with your sentences on an unborn child's possibility to kill the mother, at least for now. Regardless of the percentage, if there's a high chance the mother will die and she fears for her own life (just say she isn't one of those women who would put their unborn baby's life before her own), shouldn't she be entitled to save herself? I personally feel the decision should be solely the mothers in such a case.

As for the very last sentence or two, I can think of one broad example only at this point in time. What if the child would be born with a condition that would cause them nothing but intense pain and a very brief life regardless of circumstances? Or is destined to be stillborn for whatever reason? Neither may be likely (I personally have no idea), but still, what if? Would the situation warrant a different look at things under different circumstances?

What should an abortion that should be illegal be punishable by? That is an interesting question.

I feel that really depends. If it was seen as a mistake later, the guilt and grief the woman responsible for the abortion may feel may be a great enough punishment. But honestly, the question is quite broad. How developed is the child, what are the circumstances of the parents and their reason for abortion? And I would also consider things such as, will the cells respond to pain if they are at an earlier level in development? Will death really cause them grief in any way?

But aye, good post. It's been insightful.

[Saransoah]

Thanks for the feedback man, your response was great . I meant to say that the cells will become a human, and no one can prevent that human from having its rights. (I think I covered my flaw)

I of course agree with you that it is totally the mother's decision if her life was in danger, but there is always a chance that she and the baby might make it out alive , And theres a chance they can both die as well, but ussually doctors are decent at predicting either way. Thats why I say it should be legal for her to do that, but only in that situation, and I personally would have the child anyway if I was the mother.

For a child that is predicted to be born with a very painful condition, stillborn, or the chance at only a brief life, the child still has rights just like any human. None of us know exactly how this child's life would be, all we know is that it has a chance at life no matter how small. If you argue that these types of humans can have their right to life taken away from them, then you could also argue that any down-syndrome child, amputee, or anything but a healthy child can be aborted. If this were the case, i would also argue that a premature child should be aborted as well, because their chances at the best life are less. Take Stephen Hawkings for an example (albeit probably not near the best one, but oh well.) If someone like him were aborted because of tests that predicted that he would live the majority of his life paralyzed and in pain, I think not only would the world miss out on a great genius, but also Stephen would not be able to live his life.

There is also the possibility that medical science will be able to come up with a cure (say for, down syndrome! or even better, a cure for some horrible condition that kills the baby in three days.) right when the baby is born. If that baby was aborted only because it has down syndrome and life might have not been as great, it would be a sad day indeed. That is why it should be illegal in every circumstance except for when a mothers life or some other persons life is in danger.

(Sorry if this post isn't too clear, I typed it in quick reply and I didn't look over it too much)

[dongs.]

I'm pretty sure that abortion after 5-6 months is messed up.. only because it looks less like an alien and more like a human, get it? Don't just change your mind because you're like, "OH WAIT. BABIES ARE LAME." or something that doesn't make sense. If you've made the decision in the beginning that you're going to get rid of it, props. If you change your mind because you're an ever-loving retard then take a long walk off a short pier, thanks.

I'm pro-choice.. but obviously you need to have your limits or else it's going to get out of hand.. because humans do that. That and Children of Men kinda made pretty butthurt.

[Sean]

The whole "Life starts at conception" bit is a naive way of looking at it.

Life starts when the egg is formed and the sperm are created, they just take on a different route when they're introduced to one another. Using contraceptive is just killing the sperm, using birth control is just killing the egg. GOING THROUGH YOUR PERIOD EVERY MONTH IS JUST KILLING THE EGG.

What's the difference between passing the egg through your period, or it being conceived and you aborting it? Nothing, because before conception the egg was nothing, and after abortion it's again nothing.

It's not like you're walking around with one single egg your entire life and it's your only shot, it's the only human life that can come out of you. Every egg mixed with every sperm cell creates a different baby. You may abort it, or you may not even conceive it, but that CHANCE that the egg has will pass the same regardless. If you don't want to abort it because you want to have it, that's fine and dandy.

I'm pro-choice. Need I elaborate further?


Edit: The "have it and give it up for adoption/foster care" idea is even more naive.

People are being born more every day than people are dying. This is an ever-growing trend and this causes this wonderful thing China knows very well called overpopulation. Welfare is at an all-time high in the US, unemployment is skyrocketing, other government aid programs to "poor" families are stressed to the max and beyond, for the simple reason of people having children they can't afford. This isn't something that just goes away, either, it gets worse and worse as time goes on because populations rise and rise. Epidemics, wars, abortions, murders, are all good things to the overall population. I've come to accept the fact I might die some day in some "unfair" way, be it murder, a terrorist bombing, or even some kitchen accident that some gas leak blows up my building. In the end, my death makes one more spot on the social security list and the population is one person smaller of being too big, which we're already on the brink of.

The above paragraph is all I'll accept anyone criticizing, my first statement on abortion is bulletproof.

Edit: And yes, if my mother was broke, working to the bone to scrape by, and stressed to her limits when I came about, damn straight I don't care if I was aborted. Hell, if my mother was a crackhead living off of welfare I would PREFER to have been aborted than raised in an enviroment like that.

[Blitz King]

There are three questions that are basic to the entire abortion controversy:

The first is: "Is this human life?" As we will see, the answer clearly is Yes. That answer is a medical and scientific one, for we cannot impose a religious or philosophic belief in our nations through force of law.

The second question is: "Should we grant equal protection by law to all living humans in our nation?" or, "Should we allow discrimination against entire classes of living humans?"

I think in the United States if you will be sentenced to life in prison for killing a person you should not be allowed to get an abortion. to me an unborn child is already alive and breathing inside the mother. Therefore when you kill the baby it should be considered abortion.

The third question is about Choice and Women’s Rights.

I do think that the women had the right when she had sex on whether or not to have sex. when you have sex there is always a chance on getting pregnant.

[Dead Angel]

I'm about to have an abortion myself (already booked in for an appointment).
I'm 20 years old, live in a rented house, don't have much money at all and I certainly don't feel ready to have a child (it was unplanned).
It took me a long time to decide what to do, but i know that i would struggle with money alone. I would end up living off all sorts of benefits and allowances, and that's not exactly ideal. I'd be miserable and struggling with the baby, the baby would be miserable...it's not worth it.

Even so...I've already read up about pregnancy so I know how much the baby has developed so far. It's weird and slightly disturbing to think that i'll be killing/destroying that partially developed baby.
I'd say that if you choose to have an abortion, make sure you're 100% sure.

[Koda]

I'd say that if you choose to have an abortion, make sure you're 100% sure.

I couldn't agree with you more. But I will also say, before considering abortion, consider those that would love to be parents but aren't able to have children. To me adoption is a greater alternative. Not only are you giving life, but you are also giving a couple the gift of being parents. There are so many organizations out there that let you choose who your baby goes to. And if you choose to remain a part of your childs life, you may do so. If not, then you don't have to. Just my opinion. Good luck to you.

[Lilium]

I believe, that when it comes to abortion, it's in no way a man's decision to tell the soon-to-be mother what to do with their child, whether that be the boyfriend, or father. The woman is the one that has to carry that weight for 9 months, has to eat for 2 beings, has to go through morning sickness, etc. etc. etc. All the guy has to do is put up with it and support the pregnant woman. The man could just as easily walk away from it and leave, but the woman is stuck with it. This is why I believe that it should be a woman's decision whether or not to keep the baby. If the father is going to stick around and such, then the couple could discuss this, but the final decision should always be up to the woman.

I am against abortion (pro-life), but overall, if I got someone pregnant, and they wanted to get it aborted, I would try to persuade them to go the other way, but I wouldn't stop them if they really wanted to get one. If they are 100% sure about it, then I'm fine with that, because it's their decision and their belief.

I guess I'm a pretty big hypocrite when it comes to abortion, huh?

[Sasquatch]

I'm 20 years old, live in a rented house, don't have much money at all and I certainly don't feel ready to have a child (it was unplanned).

Translation: Irresponsible living. Child must die.

I'd be miserable and struggling with the baby, the baby would be miserable...it's not worth it.

It's too much of an inconvenience for your life, so your choice is to murder your own child? Ever heard of adoption?

It's weird and slightly disturbing to think that i'll be killing/destroying that partially developed baby.

Yet, you say you'll do it anyway. Disturbing to some of us that others would have little guilt over their own child's murder.

I believe, that when it comes to abortion, it's in no way a man's decision to tell the soon-to-be mother what to do with their child, whether that be the boyfriend, or father. The woman is the one that has to carry that weight for 9 months, has to eat for 2 beings, has to go through morning sickness, etc. etc. etc. All the guy has to do is put up with it and support the pregnant woman.

Wow.

First. IT'S HIS CHILD TOO. So what if he doesn't have to carry the child to term, it's still his child. You could use the same logic to say that all of the furniture in any house belongs to the man of the house, because he's most likely the one who carried the furniture inside.

Second. Ever heard of "child support"? It's this weird new thing where the father is forced to pay for his child, and if he doesn't the money is automatically deducted from his paycheck. He could even go through some big fines or jailtime if he avoids it. So even if a child is nothing but a financial drain, why shouldn't the father have any say, since it'll be his finances?

Third. And probably most important. Murder is not a get-out-of-inconvenience-free card. Everything has consequences -- even sex. If one does it irresponsibly, consequences become more likely -- said consequence being pregnancy. The responsible thing to do is, if you can't handle the consequences, DON'T DO IT. The somewhat less responsible, most reasonable thing to do is, if you can't handle the consequences, do it responsibly. Believe it or not, an extremely small percentage of pregnancies happen because of a failed birth control.

Fourth. If you think "all the guy has to do is put up with it", you've obviously not done much around pregnant women.

And fifth. You DO know that more men support abortion than women, don't you?

[Lilium]

Translation: Irresponsible living. Child must die.It's too much of an inconvenience for your life, so your choice is to murder your own child? Ever heard of adoption?Yet, you say you'll do it anyway. Disturbing to some of us that others would have little guilt over their own child's murder.

Wow.

First. IT'S HIS CHILD TOO. So what if he doesn't have to carry the child to term, it's still his child. You could use the same logic to say that all of the furniture in any house belongs to the man of the house, because he's most likely the one who carried the furniture inside.

Second. Ever heard of "child support"? It's this weird new thing where the father is forced to pay for his child, and if he doesn't the money is automatically deducted from his paycheck. He could even go through some big fines or jailtime if he avoids it. So even if a child is nothing but a financial drain, why shouldn't the father have any say, since it'll be his finances?

Third. And probably most important. Murder is not a get-out-of-inconvenience-free card. Everything has consequences -- even sex. If one does it irresponsibly, consequences become more likely -- said consequence being pregnancy. The responsible thing to do is, if you can't handle the consequences, DON'T DO IT. The somewhat less responsible, most reasonable thing to do is, if you can't handle the consequences, do it responsibly. Believe it or not, an extremely small percentage of pregnancies happen because of a failed birth control.

Fourth. If you think "all the guy has to do is put up with it", you've obviously not done much around pregnant women.

And fifth. You DO know that more men support abortion than women, don't you?

Wow.

For one thing, child support only comes into play AFTER the child is born, and only if the couple is divorced or never got married. What you’re thinking of is PARENTHOOD RESPONSIBILITY. Believe it or not, they ARE two different things, they just both involve money. Therefore, your talk about child support is irrelevant here. I should know about this, since my parents have been divorced since I was 7.

Also, I'm not saying that the man has nothing to do with the pregnancy or anything of the sort. What I'm saying is, that ultimately, it's up to the woman to make the final decision. I'm not gonna drag no woman to an abortion clinic and force her to get an abortion. This is why I say it's up to the woman. You know how people ask sometimes whether or not the woman is going to keep the baby? Well, who's that question directed at? The one who's pregnant! Correct!
Just so you know, I haven't impregnated anybody yet, but I've been around pregnant women before. I was living with my sister through her two pregnancies. It's not as good as living with someone that I've actually gotten pregnant, but it should be close enough for you, so here I say, **** you.

Of course I know that more men support abortion than women! It's common sense! I mean, a man did legalize the practice, after all.
In the society of the United States, the man is considered the head of the household. With this logic, the man will be providing the majority of the income, therefore, the man is also providing and paying the majority of the expenses for the child. This can be a problem for many men, if the child came from a fling with some woman or something of the sort. Some guys just don't want to support a child, therefore, they will try to get the woman to have an abortion.
The reason that a lot of women are against abortion is because of the trauma and emotional stress that comes from it, along with the ongoing thoughts of a dead baby being squeezed out of them. They had a living being inside of them that needed them, and they abandoned it. An abortion is harder for a woman than a man. Prove me wrong on that, mother****er.

It's true.. Guys will help women through the pregnancy and give them support. I'm sorry if I worded it in an immature and stupid way, but overall, that's how it is. The man helps her get around, supports her during the pregnancy, and them some. I guess I was thoughtless. I was wrong on that one, and I apologize.

I know about the statistics of failed birth control. Most pregnancies happen from stuff like unprotected sex, broken condoms, leakage from anal sex (yes, it has happened before), etc.

So you're saying that if you can't handle a child, then... uhm... well ****, I can't think of anything intelligent to come back with to that. ****.

Nobody is truly ready for sex their first time. Why do you think that people are always nervous or embarrassed during their first time? Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I believe more in keeping the child and giving it up for adoption when it’s born, just so you know. I’d rather not push a woman to go get an abortion. And, if the woman did get an abortion, I wouldn’t feel good about it, but luckily, I’m Catholic, so all I’d have to do is go to Confession, and all of my being will be cleansed!
I’m not a supporter of abortion, like a lot of men, but I know that there are a good amount of women that are, even if the majority of women are against it.

Also, if you get an abortion within a certain amount of time, depending on what state you’re in, the fetus growing inside of the uterus is not considered a child by state law. It might be by religious law, but not by state law.

Tell me, Sasquatch, are you a religious person? It seems like you might be a little bit on the extreme side of Christianity there, since you seemed to mix a little bit of sarcasm with forceful sentences in your posts. Everyone has their beliefs, so let’s just keep this thread about posting one’s beliefs and informing people a little more on all the aspects of the topic, is that okay with you? Because I really don’t want to get into a flame war with you.

[Pete]

I have to agree with Sasquatch on this one. As I said before, abortion isn't some little cop-out for when you screw up, it's a very serious procedure that yields very serious consequences. Just because it may inconvenience you doesn't make it right to end a life. Like Sasquatch says, the father should also have a say in the matter because a, he helped to create the child (unless this is some miracle child... at which point I'd say aborting is a baaaaad idea) and b, the father may actually want to keep the child. And who is to argue that a father cannot see his child? (Despite the fact that most family court judges will favor the mother.)

At the same time, in the case of rape, then I feel that abortion should be a viable choice, because it was not the woman's decision to even have sex in the first place, and she should not have to deal with that. At the same time, the option should also be presented if there is a chance that one or both lives could be in jeopardy if the pregnancy is completed to term. Not for someone who was too lazy or careless enough not to use a rubber. That's just common sense.