Dreams

Che · 02-20-2010, 12:24 PM

I'm a believer.

I read through it and he or she presents a great arguement. I agree that after the first disc, everything seems kind of surreal. I never really went back to re-explore this game after my first playthrough, but I might replay it now with this concept in mind.

I dunno how I'm going to be able to play through the faceless shots, though. Wow.

**Zidane77** · 02-20-2010, 12:27 PM

Doesn't make sense to me though :/

Che · 02-20-2010, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Zidane77

Doesn't make sense to me though :/

Which part?

edit: ugh that site is a nightmare! The background looks like two freakish eyes staring into your soul. Don't make me go back there.

**Zidane77** · 02-20-2010, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Che

Which part?

edit: ugh that site is a nightmare! The background looks like two freakish eyes staring into your soul. Don't make me go back there.

That everything after disc 1 was a dream..

Che · 02-20-2010, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Zidane77

That everything after disc 1 was a dream..

It makes perfect sense that it doesn't make sense. That's the part of the game where I was asking myself what was going on. Why are we in this prison with endless hallways. Things just started to get weird, like a dream. Our own dreams rarely make sense, as they are just are mind trying to deal with our thoughts as we are not conscious.

And what did happen to Squall, there? It makes the dialogue and inner-monologue of the story go from "uh, weird, okay dude" to "oooh, that's why you're such a weirdo, Squall. You're dead and dreaming".

The site explains it very well.

**Andromeda** · 02-20-2010, 01:54 PM

Yes, surprisingly Squall's missing face is actually in the FMV, but it is only up for like ten frames or something. It is very easy to miss and I know I never saw it until I watched the videos of the FMV again on youtube.

Shadow and I were actually talking about this yesterday. As I told him, the site makes a strong argument for its case, but the biggest problem is that it all relies on Squaresoft having purposely told a ridiculously elaborate story with a huge plot twist that 99.9% of the viewing/playing population would never see on their own. It says that Squaresoft intention made one of the most subtle plot twists in their games ever. And anyone that's play any number of Squaresoft games knows they can tell a good start and usually will start of subtle, but once you get to the end of the game all of the important points to understanding the story/game/characters will all have been explained enough that their intention got across. If is something as important as changing the entire meaning of what you've just played and you want people to get that, then you make sure they understand that.

Also when you think of the implication of what they are saying it becomes even more difficult to accept. If it was all just a dream then the game and reality ends on disc one with Edea killing Squall. Right there the game ends you don't know what else happens. You can easily assume their failure and capture there means all of the SeeD are killed for assassination attempt. No one stops Edea and evil wins and good loses. I'm all for that, but name a RPG that has ever done that (Disgaea doesn't count). If Squaresoft actually wanted to make a game where good loses and evil wins they would not have been so subtle about it. They just would have done it out in the open.

It's a nice theory, but in the end I think it is just someone that personally believes the game is non-sensical and trying to apply sense to it so that they can feel like FFVIII is some amazingly conceive story of subtly when they don't want to accept that they actually think it is a really badly written game.

Do I think the game is bad, no, but I suspect they believe it is. However, it is FF so there must be a reason for it and it can't be bad. So they have to find a rational to make a good clever game in their eyes.

**Zidane77** · 02-20-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Yes, surprisingly Squall's missing face is actually in the FMV, but it is only up for like ten frames or something. It is very easy to miss and I know I never saw it until I watched the videos of the FMV again on youtube.

Shadow and I were actually talking about this yesterday. As I told him, the site makes a strong argument for its case, but the biggest problem is that it all relies on Squaresoft having purposely told a ridiculously elaborate story with a huge plot twist that 99.9% of the viewing/playing population would never see on their own. It says that Squaresoft intention made one of the most subtle plot twists in their games ever. And anyone that's play any number of Squaresoft games knows they can tell a good start and usually will start of subtle, but once you get to the end of the game all of the important points to understanding the story/game/characters will all have been explained enough that their intention got across. If is something as important as changing the entire meaning of what you've just played and you want people to get that, then you make sure they understand that.

Also when you think of the implication of what they are saying it becomes even more difficult to accept. If it was all just a dream then the game and reality ends on disc one with Edea killing Squall. Right there the game ends you don't know what else happens. You can easily assume their failure and capture there means all of the SeeD are killed for assassination attempt. No one stops Edea and evil wins and good loses. I'm all for that, but name a RPG that has ever done that (Disgaea doesn't count). If Squaresoft actually wanted to make a game where good loses and evil wins they would not have been so subtle about it. They just would have done it out in the open.

It's a nice theory, but in the end I think it is just someone that personally believes the game is non-sensical and trying to apply sense to it so that they can feel like FFVIII is some amazingly conceive story of subtly when they don't want to accept that they actually think it is a really badly written game.

Do I think the game is bad, no, but I suspect they believe it is. However, it is FF so there must be a reason for it and it can't be bad. So they have to find a rational to make a good clever game in their eyes.

I agree, you said all there is to say.

**ZantetsukeN** · 02-20-2010, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Yes, surprisingly Squall's missing face is actually in the FMV, but it is only up for like ten frames or something. It is very easy to miss and I know I never saw it until I watched the videos of the FMV again on youtube.

Shadow and I were actually talking about this yesterday. As I told him, the site makes a strong argument for its case, but the biggest problem is that it all relies on Squaresoft having purposely told a ridiculously elaborate story with a huge plot twist that 99.9% of the viewing/playing population would never see on their own. It says that Squaresoft intention made one of the most subtle plot twists in their games ever. And anyone that's play any number of Squaresoft games knows they can tell a good start and usually will start of subtle, but once you get to the end of the game all of the important points to understanding the story/game/characters will all have been explained enough that their intention got across. If is something as important as changing the entire meaning of what you've just played and you want people to get that, then you make sure they understand that.

Also when you think of the implication of what they are saying it becomes even more difficult to accept. If it was all just a dream then the game and reality ends on disc one with Edea killing Squall. Right there the game ends you don't know what else happens. You can easily assume their failure and capture there means all of the SeeD are killed for assassination attempt. No one stops Edea and evil wins and good loses. I'm all for that, but name a RPG that has ever done that (Disgaea doesn't count). If Squaresoft actually wanted to make a game where good loses and evil wins they would not have been so subtle about it. They just would have done it out in the open.

It's a nice theory, but in the end I think it is just someone that personally believes the game is non-sensical and trying to apply sense to it so that they can feel like FFVIII is some amazingly conceive story of subtly when they don't want to accept that they actually think it is a really badly written game.

Do I think the game is bad, no, but I suspect they believe it is. However, it is FF so there must be a reason for it and it can't be bad. So they have to find a rational to make a good clever game in their eyes.

I agree with everything you've said also. The person must have really disliked the game, and had a SERIOUS amount of time on their hands. It all sounded too farfetched to me.

Che · 02-20-2010, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Yes, surprisingly Squall's missing face is actually in the FMV, but it is only up for like ten frames or something. It is very easy to miss and I know I never saw it until I watched the videos of the FMV again on youtube.

Shadow and I were actually talking about this yesterday. As I told him, the site makes a strong argument for its case, but the biggest problem is that it all relies on Squaresoft having purposely told a ridiculously elaborate story with a huge plot twist that 99.9% of the viewing/playing population would never see on their own. It says that Squaresoft intention made one of the most subtle plot twists in their games ever. And anyone that's play any number of Squaresoft games knows they can tell a good start and usually will start of subtle, but once you get to the end of the game all of the important points to understanding the story/game/characters will all have been explained enough that their intention got across. If is something as important as changing the entire meaning of what you've just played and you want people to get that, then you make sure they understand that.

Also when you think of the implication of what they are saying it becomes even more difficult to accept. If it was all just a dream then the game and reality ends on disc one with Edea killing Squall. Right there the game ends you don't know what else happens. You can easily assume their failure and capture there means all of the SeeD are killed for assassination attempt. No one stops Edea and evil wins and good loses. I'm all for that, but name a RPG that has ever done that (Disgaea doesn't count). If Squaresoft actually wanted to make a game where good loses and evil wins they would not have been so subtle about it. They just would have done it out in the open.

It's a nice theory, but in the end I think it is just someone that personally believes the game is non-sensical and trying to apply sense to it so that they can feel like FFVIII is some amazingly conceive story of subtly when they don't want to accept that they actually think it is a really badly written game.

Do I think the game is bad, no, but I suspect they believe it is. However, it is FF so there must be a reason for it and it can't be bad. So they have to find a rational to make a good clever game in their eyes.

Maybe the didn't really want to do it openly. Why would they have to do it out in the open like that? It's a Final Fantasy game, so we may very well want good to win. This is why they do it subtly. So you can play through the game thinking that that's what happens.