Anyone Hate FF VII?

[Ralz]

While he did go insane, Seph did NOT want to merely "blow up the world". He wanted to destroy the life that was on the planet so the souls could return to the lifestream where he would be waiting to absorb them and become a god.

Yeah, and it would have been more effective... if the true him was sitting on his ass in some crystal for 4 years... >_>

Jenova was one of the main threats of the game, Hojo included. And to just throw the "Lolz, BTW, you weren't fighting the REAL Sephiroth, it was Jenova. We fooled you. " is annoying. Sephiroth just took back-seat to everything and have his "mommy" do all the work for him...

Not to mention, when he appeared, he never really talked. He only really spoke in Cloudo's delusions where he just sorta mocked him and never really fought... at all.

Wow, Sephiroth really is the most under-characterized villain in FF history... o_O

[Dodie16]

Yeah, and it would have been more effective... if the true him was sitting on his ass in some crystal for 4 years... >_>

Jenova was one of the main threats of the game, Hojo included. And to just throw the "Lolz, BTW, you weren't fighting the REAL Sephiroth, it was Jenova. We fooled you. " is annoying. Sephiroth just took back-seat to everything and have his "mommy" do all the work for him...

While it is true that you weren't fighting the real Seph during the events of the game, he was manipulating Jenova to his will. So really, you were fighting his will. Jenova was pretty much a lifeless organism throughout the whole game, and was used by Sephiroth.

Also, he wasn't merely "sitting on his ass" during that time. He was absorbing the knowledge of the Lifestream, which is how he came to find out about the Black Materia and METEOR.

He was also in that crystallized form, because he was regenerating his body, which was another little trick that he learned to do while gathering all that lovely knowledge.

Not to mention, when he appeared, he never really talked. He only really spoke in Cloudo's delusions where he just sorta mocked him and never really fought... at all.

What would be the fun in merely destroying your opponent so easily? Wouldn't you rather get them to do your bidding and crush their spirits first? Cloud was just a puppet to him, and not really worthy of destroying, hence the mocking and berating of his character.

Wow, Sephiroth really is the most under-characterized villain in FF history... o_O

So that's why he has so many fans? Give the guy a little credit in being the first to have a sympathetic back story and to be an appealing character to many people. While most of it was shrouded in mystery, that just adds to his appeal, imo. We [the fans] are left wanting to know MORE about the cold, ruthless, intelligent and graceful antagonist who was once hailed as a hero, and now is the threat to the entire world in FFVII.

[Ralz]

While it is true that you weren't fighting the real Seph during the events of the game, he was manipulating Jenova to his will. So really, you were fighting his will. Jenova was pretty much a lifeless organism throughout the whole game, and was used by Sephiroth.

Same indifference. Sephiroth sat back-seat to it all, until he had to be a man and actually FIGHT.

Also, he wasn't merely "sitting on his ass" during that time. He was absorbing the knowledge of the Lifestream, which is how he came to find out about the Black Materia and METEOR.

He was also in that crystallized form, because he was regenerating his body, which was another little trick that he learned to do while gathering all that lovely knowledge.

He can also owe that little number to Jenova. Actually, if not for Jenova, Sephiroth would've died at the Nibelhiem reactor. When Cloudo threw him off the platform, he fused with Jenova, and somehow reappeared inside a giant rock. FFVII sense for ya.

What would be the fun in merely destroying your opponent so easily? Wouldn't you rather get them to do your bidding and crush their spirits first? Cloud was just a puppet to him, and not really worthy of destroying, hence the mocking and berating of his character.

Sephiroth only Cloudo for the Black Materia. But, here's where I'm lost. Sephiroth had a bunch of clones running around, coming for him. Couldn't he manipulate them, too? And if he could, he wouldn't need Cloudo to get Useless Doll #1 to get the Black Materia. He could've sent the clone in to get it have another retrieve it and bring it to him. Unless, he can't which partially explains it somewhat. But, if he was control of Cloudo, why doesn't he just have Cloudo bring the materia straight to him? I don't get it... why let eight people come instead of one? Less to deal with... higher chance of actually winning.

So that's why he has so many fans? Give the guy a little credit in being the first to have a sympathetic back story and to be an appealing character to many people. While most of it was shrouded in mystery, that just adds to his appeal, imo. We [the fans] are left wanting to know MORE about the cold, ruthless, intelligent and graceful antagonist who was once hailed as a hero, and now is the threat to the entire world in FFVII.

Sephiroth doesn't have fans. He has fanBOYs.

We hardly needed a backstory on it all. Do they really go into detail why Exdeath is the most evil thing in FFV's world and why he MUST be destroyed? They don't. They only show a mere flashback, and he's already defeated, so we can't see how strong he really was.

Did we need a backstory for Garland, the first villain in FF history? No. That's because he falls under the stereotypical cliche of "Oh, my, I just realized. I'm strong, real strong. I don't think anyone can beat me. So, I know! I'll capture the princess and get the kingdom for her exchange! WHAHAHAHA!!!" Simply, and not needing an explanation, we've seen it before...

Getting back to Sephiroth, its possible that they delve too much into his character. They literally give us everything. His father, his mother, his days in SOLDIER, his descent into insanity, and the aftermath leading to the Nibelhiem Incident. The only part that isn't really touched upon is how he was sent to the Whirlwind Maze and got so much power. Does he have a book with him that tells him everything? Who knows...

But we don't need to know that bit. We know too much, already. So much that it's more confusing that interesting... They keep throwing us a curveball... Like:

Hojo - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's father, Lolz.
Lucrecia - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's mother, Lolz.
Kadaj - Oh, BTW, I'm created from Sephy, Lolz.
Sephy - Oh, BTW Cloudo, I'll be back to ruin the story in sequels, Lolz.

Just stay dead, already. Jeez... >_>

Too much info =/= well-developed character

Ugh... just watch. The next prequel/sequel/mid-quel/screw-it-all-quel, Sephiroth... will be the main character. And... we go through his childhood! And he meets this random fill-in girl who we never see in the main games, and then it goes through his life, even after the events of AC, where we see him like... lamenting or something. And then he is revived as a good guy and its happily ever after! (Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... o_O)

Long story short: Sephiroth can't compare to the other great villains. When he's not developed enough, or too developed enough, he's a bitch of a man who never fights unless he absolutely must. Yeah, great one there, Squeenix... >_>

[Block]

Same indifference. Sephiroth sat back-seat to it all, until he had to be a man and actually FIGHT.



He can also owe that little number to Jenova. Actually, if not for Jenova, Sephiroth would've died at the Nibelhiem reactor. When Cloudo threw him off the platform, he fused with Jenova, and somehow reappeared inside a giant rock. FFVII sense for ya.



Sephiroth only Cloudo for the Black Materia. But, here's where I'm lost. Sephiroth had a bunch of clones running around, coming for him. Couldn't he manipulate them, too? And if he could, he wouldn't need Cloudo to get Useless Doll #1 to get the Black Materia. He could've sent the clone in to get it have another retrieve it and bring it to him. Unless, he can't which partially explains it somewhat. But, if he was control of Cloudo, why doesn't he just have Cloudo bring the materia straight to him? I don't get it... why let eight people come instead of one? Less to deal with... higher chance of actually winning.



Sephiroth doesn't have fans. He has fanBOYs.

We hardly needed a backstory on it all. Do they really go into detail why Exdeath is the most evil thing in FFV's world and why he MUST be destroyed? They don't. They only show a mere flashback, and he's already defeated, so we can't see how strong he really was.

Did we need a backstory for Garland, the first villain in FF history? No. That's because he falls under the stereotypical cliche of "Oh, my, I just realized. I'm strong, real strong. I don't think anyone can beat me. So, I know! I'll capture the princess and get the kingdom for her exchange! WHAHAHAHA!!!" Simply, and not needing an explanation, we've seen it before...

Getting back to Sephiroth, its possible that they delve too much into his character. They literally give us everything. His father, his mother, his days in SOLDIER, his descent into insanity, and the aftermath leading to the Nibelhiem Incident. The only part that isn't really touched upon is how he was sent to the Whirlwind Maze and got so much power. Does he have a book with him that tells him everything? Who knows...

But we don't need to know that bit. We know too much, already. So much that it's more confusing that interesting... They keep throwing us a curveball... Like:

Hojo - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's father, Lolz.
Lucrecia - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's mother, Lolz.
Kadaj - Oh, BTW, I'm created from Sephy, Lolz.
Sephy - Oh, BTW Cloudo, I'll be back to ruin the story in sequels, Lolz.

Just stay dead, already. Jeez... >_>

Too much info =/= well-developed character

Ugh... just watch. The next prequel/sequel/mid-quel/screw-it-all-quel, Sephiroth... will be the main character. And... we go through his childhood! And he meets this random fill-in girl who we never see in the main games, and then it goes through his life, even after the events of AC, where we see him like... lamenting or something. And then he is revived as a good guy and its happily ever after! (Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... o_O)

Long story short: Sephiroth can't compare to the other great villains. When he's not developed enough, or too developed enough, he's a bitch of a man who never fights unless he absolutely must. Yeah, great one there, Squeenix... >_>

May the Gods have mercy on how well this thread turned out.

[Ralz]

May the Gods have mercy on how well this thread turned out.

Hey! That's another thing to blame Sephiroth for! Thanks for the advice, Vivi!

Sephiroth caused this thread to become off-topic.

[Che]

No, I don't hate FFVII. Because it's the best game ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And Sephiroth is the coolest, and Cloud too and both their swords. I like to stroke them. Not the swords, but Sephiroth and Cloud.

Whenever I had a chance to buy tents in the game, I'd buy them and use them immediately so I could sleep with Cloud since he is the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ShadowDC3]

I loved FFVII but its actually one of my least favorites out of the ones I've played.

[Locke4God]

Alright, FF7 is undeniably one of the most influential, most popular, and greatest games of all time, in any genre. If you hate this game, you're in the minority, and it's on you, because it is a fact, not an opinion, that it's a great game. It was outstanding.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Alright, FF7 is undeniably one of the most influential, most popular, and greatest games of all time, in any genre. If you hate this game, you're in the minority, and it's on you, because it is a fact, not an opinion, that it's a great game. It was outstanding.

Well it can't be a fact if numerous people do not like the game.
Actually, it is looked as one of the best by some RPG players, not from all Game players.

[Dodie16]

Same indifference. Sephiroth sat back-seat to it all, until he had to be a man and actually FIGHT.

How is manipulating the body of an alien being and using it as his "avatar" of sorts in any way considered "taking a back seat"? I think it takes more power and determination to accomplish something like that than to merely use your own form.

Also, he was stuck in crystal. We already established that fact. How can he use his own body when it was half-formed and encased like that? He had to do the next best thing, which was to use Jenova.

Sephiroth only Cloudo for the Black Materia. But, here's where I'm lost. Sephiroth had a bunch of clones running around, coming for him. Couldn't he manipulate them, too? And if he could, he wouldn't need Cloudo to get Useless Doll #1 to get the Black Materia. He could've sent the clone in to get it have another retrieve it and bring it to him. Unless, he can't which partially explains it somewhat. But, if he was control of Cloudo, why doesn't he just have Cloudo bring the materia straight to him? I don't get it... why let eight people come instead of one? Less to deal with... higher chance of actually winning.

Why would he [Sephiroth] do that [get the other "clones" to get the Black Materia] when he can destroy the spirit of the one he despises the most?

Sephiroth doesn't have fans. He has fanBOYs.

That's the vulgar term used by others to mock thier fan-based attachment to him. While it might be surprising to you, some fans do actually like him as a character.

We hardly needed a backstory on it all. Do they really go into detail why Exdeath is the most evil thing in FFV's world and why he MUST be destroyed? They don't. They only show a mere flashback, and he's already defeated, so we can't see how strong he really was.

Did we need a backstory for Garland, the first villain in FF history? No. That's because he falls under the stereotypical cliche of "Oh, my, I just realized. I'm strong, real strong. I don't think anyone can beat me. So, I know! I'll capture the princess and get the kingdom for her exchange! WHAHAHAHA!!!" Simply, and not needing an explanation, we've seen it before...

That's right. They didn't need a backstory because they were essentially had the same characteristics. Be evil and take over the world. Sephiroth's character brought something else to the table. He was a "sympathetic antagonist", which is to say you could FEEL something for him and his story other than "okay I gotta destroy this dude because he's evil". In Seph's mind, he wasn't the evil one. It was those who betrayed the Cetra and those were the descendants of Gaia, so they all had to pay for their crime.

Getting back to Sephiroth, its possible that they delve too much into his character. They literally give us everything. His father, his mother, his days in SOLDIER, his descent into insanity, and the aftermath leading to the Nibelhiem Incident. The only part that isn't really touched upon is how he was sent to the Whirlwind Maze and got so much power. Does he have a book with him that tells him everything? Who knows...

Oh, so now he has too much characterization? You first said that he was characterized very little and now you're at the opposite end saying he has too much.

But we don't need to know that bit. We know too much, already. So much that it's more confusing that interesting... They keep throwing us a curveball... Like:

Hojo - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's father, Lolz.
Lucrecia - Oh, BTW, I'm Sephy's mother, Lolz.
Kadaj - Oh, BTW, I'm created from Sephy, Lolz.
Sephy - Oh, BTW Cloudo, I'll be back to ruin the story in sequels, Lolz.

"Curveballs", as you so bluntly put it, like that keep the story interesting. I for one was quite surprised to find out about who Seph's parents were, particularly Hojo. It also adds to his [Seph's] appeal as a character. His own father used him in an experiment before he [Sephiroth] was even born.

Too much info =/= well-developed character

Really? Because most would think that it would equal a well-developed character in that you know a lot about them. But, eh. To each their own.

Ugh... just watch. The next prequel/sequel/mid-quel/screw-it-all-quel, Sephiroth... will be the main character. And... we go through his childhood! And he meets this random fill-in girl who we never see in the main games, and then it goes through his life, even after the events of AC, where we see him like... lamenting or something. And then he is revived as a good guy and its happily ever after! (Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... o_O)

Sounds like you should take up a hobby writing fan fiction.

Long story short: Sephiroth can't compare to the other great villains. When he's not developed enough, or too developed enough, he's a bitch of a man who never fights unless he absolutely must. Yeah, great one there, Squeenix... >_>

I don't think one should ever really judge another character on the merits that they all appear in different games, different canons, and have different values. What works for one, may not necessarily work for another.

Love him or hate him, there is no denying the fact that he was a change from the "typical villain" in the series.

Oh, and why would anyone bother to fight unless they "absolutely must"? Seph is not some meat head who goes around picking fights for no reason.

Posted by Ralz
Sephiroth caused this thread to become off-topic.

No he didn't. YOU DID. That's called displacing the blame, btw.

I am not trying to change your (or anyone's) opinion about him. This thread is about FF VII as a whole, but you seemed so keen on character bashing that I felt the need to respond. Please keep to the topic at hand.

[Ralz]

How is manipulating the body of an alien being and using it as his "avatar" of sorts in any way considered "taking a back seat"? I think it takes more power and determination to accomplish something like that than to merely use your own form.

Its taking back-seat, because he's not physcially doing it on his own. He's playing puppetmaster, which is always the crappy role.

Also, he was stuck in crystal. We already established that fact. How can he use his own body when it was half-formed and encased like that? He had to do the next best thing, which was to use Jenova.

Makes as much sense as how he got OUT and then became the wandering spirit/god/whatever that had to be defeated at the end. I might have been the BM's power, but I don't know. It really has been a long time.

Why would he [Sephiroth] do that [get the other "clones" to get the Black Materia] when he can destroy the spirit of the one he despises the most?

Same reason you explained, he's toying with them, and I gave my questions as to why bother? Get it over with.

That's the vulgar term used by others to mock thier fan-based attachment to him. While it might be surprising to you, some fans do actually like him as a character.

True, there do exist PROPER fans, but those are so far and few between. Good luck defending ALL fans... some are just way too reckless... >_>

Sephiroth's character brought something else to the table. He was a "sympathetic antagonist", which is to say you could FEEL something for him and his story other than "okay I gotta destroy this dude because he's evil". In Seph's mind, he wasn't the evil one. It was those who betrayed the Cetra and those were the descendants of Gaia, so they all had to pay for their crime.

Well, all I FELT was blandness. As Kefka professionally said, "he's a sadist with a god complex."

Oh, so now he has too much characterization? You first said that he was characterized very little and now you're at the opposite end saying he has too much.

Too little important info, and too much pointless info.

"Curveballs", as you so bluntly put it, like that keep the story interesting. I for one was quite surprised to find out about who Seph's parents were, particularly Hojo. It also adds to his [Seph's] appeal as a character. His own father used him in an experiment before he [Sephiroth] was even born.

I think its lazy on the developers part when they do that. Its like they kept going back to change the scripte, which is already screwed up with a million typos, so no wonder the story's so confusing...

Sounds like you should take up a hobby writing fan fiction.

Except everyone dies in my story... Sephy first.

I don't think one should ever really judge another character on the merits that they all appear in different games, different canons, and have different values. What works for one, may not necessarily work for another.

Love him or hate him, there is no denying the fact that he was a change from the "typical villain" in the series.

Oh, and why would anyone bother to fight unless they "absolutely must"? Seph is not some meat head who goes around picking fights for no reason.

Don't all villains, somewhere along the line, fall into the same old, boring routine? "I'm going to rule the world. You can's stop me! Neh neh!" Ugh... so overdone...


Not ALL changes are good, you know...

You're right. Instead, he waits until someone fights him. So, basically, he only does things when he "absolutely must."

No he didn't. YOU DID. That's called displacing the blame, btw.

I am not trying to change your (or anyone's) opinion about him. This thread is about FF VII as a whole, but you seemed so keen on character bashing that I felt the need to respond. Please keep to the topic at hand.

Hey, I gave an opinion, you countered, and the war began. Blame human nature. But, if you'd like, we can stop.

[Block]

holy

quoting

shit

.

seriously

lay

off

the

quotes

.

my

eyes

are

dying

.

[Ralz]

.
. .

My thoughts exactly.

[Dodie16]

Its taking back-seat, because he's not physcially doing it on his own. He's playing puppetmaster, which is always the crappy role.

No. Taking a "back seat" would imply that he himself is not doing anything at all. He was the one that was manipulating Jenova's physical movements. So in that sense, he was doing all the things he would have done if he were using his own body.

Also, manipulation is a fine art, and probably one of the most evil things that can happen to a person [to be manipulated]. I in no way consider the role of "the manipulator" to be a crappy one. That's why I enjoy the character of Zexion as well.

Again, to each their own.

Makes as much sense as how he got OUT and then became the wandering spirit/god/whatever that had to be defeated at the end. I might have been the BM's power, but I don't know. It really has been a long time.

Astral projection. Yet another trick he learned thanks to his brilliance. As for his boss form (Bizarro-Sephiroth), consider it something like a "cocoon state" in preparation for his final form (Safer-Sephiroth).

Also, when the crater caved in and the WEAPONS were released, it's possible that the crystal that Seph was encased in shattered, and he again was in the middle of the lifestream.

Same reason you explained, he's toying with them, and I gave my questions as to why bother? Get it over with.

"Why bother"? To break Cloud's spirit even further. Cloud was emotionally distraught over the fact the the very man he once hailed as a hero completely annihilated his home town and also took the life of a friend. Now that he [Cloud] had it in his head that he was just a puppet, he was ready to do whatever Seph demanded of him, even deliver the Black Materia which would bring destruction to the world.

I thought it was great that Cloud was the one to hand the Black Materia over to him like that. Sephiroth was flung into the lifestream because of Cloud, and for that, he chooses that Cloud hand him the one thing that will bring destruction and despair.

True, there do exist PROPER fans, but those are so far and few between. Good luck defending ALL fans... some are just way too reckless... >_>

And there also exist the ANTI-FANS, who are/can be just as reckless.

Well, all I FELT was blandness. As Kefka professionally said, "he's a sadist with a god complex."

I advise that you don't bring Dissidia canon/quotes into this. That's a completely different game, and do little justice for any of the characters.

I think its lazy on the developers part when they do that. Its like they kept going back to change the scripte, which is already screwed up with a million typos, so no wonder the story's so confusing...

You think it's lazy to have "curveballs" in a plot like that? I think it's lazy to follow the same formula for a story and not have any interesting "curveballs" thrown at the player/reader.

The English translation of the PSX game did have some errors, but those were fixed in the PC version of the game.

Except everyone dies in my story... Sephy first.

Looks like you should rethink that little hobby of yours then.

Don't all villains, somewhere along the line, fall into the same old, boring routine? "I'm going to rule the world. You can's stop me! Neh neh!" Ugh... so overdone...

No. Not all villains/antagonists have that as their main goal. We are even seeing that in the Final Fantasy Series that antagonists are evolving away from that. Take Vayne for example. He wanted to end the tyranny of the Occuria, and bring back the reins of history back into the hands of man. Becoming the new Dynast-King was a step in that plan.

Not ALL changes are good, you know...

Perhaps, but change requires that something different is done to see if it works, and it Seph's case, it really did. That's why you have more antagonists in the series that have those kind of backstories that delve deeper than just "being bad for the sake of being bad".

You're right. Instead, he waits until someone fights him. So, basically, he only does things when he "absolutely must."

So unless you're fighting, you aren't doing anything? He was doing stuff continuously in the events before and during the events of the game. He was traveling the lifestream gathering knowledge. He was constantly planning how exactly to become a god. Not to mention the manipulation that he was doing to Cloud throughout that game.

Looks to me like he was "doing things".

Hey, I gave an opinion, you countered, and the war began. Blame human nature. But, if you'd like, we can stop.

I don't even really consider this a "war" of any kind. You keep spouting opinion, and I counter with facts that back a lot of my opinions up.

You gave an opinion, yes, but one that wasn't really in the point of the thread. I merely pointed out a correction to the post that Polk had made, and you felt it necessary to character bash. I did defend, because I do have those fan-based attachments to Sephiroth.

This topic has veered off-course for long enough. I can't and don't want to change your opinion, but I will keep voicing mine if I see need to do so.