TFF's Official RPing Academy

Toph, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you shouldn't be criticizing anyone when it comes to grammar. Yours isn't perfect either. Neither is mine. English is one of the most difficult languages in terms of grammar, for native or ESL speakers. Although bad grammar drives me crazy, I don't think it should be heavily weighted in the grading for this reason. That, and most of the students will probably still be in high school IRL, which is definitely not the place to learn proper grammar. It's more of a college level, or like in my case, self-studied type of thing.

And it's up to you if you want to stay or not but I don't think you're giving this project a proper chance. At least wait for it to actually be up and running before you decide to bail on us. Demonia differs far more from what this club is trying to accomplish.

And call me crazy, but I like T.G's style. It's a real throwback to the old days, TFF's 'golden age' of RP. He reminds me of our old RP vets like T.O. and Mydako. Personally I think the last thing anyone should be doing is dumbing posts down, especially for RP purposes. In fact, I think it's the exact type of post all students should strive to learn. Let us not forget that we used to write with such detail and indeed were expected to. I miss those days.

But, at the same time, let's have fun with this too, shall we? Enough with all the doom and gloom here, this is supposed to be an enjoyable experience. :p Plus we'll scare away all our students with all this second guessing and doubt.

Just my thoughts on things right now.

~DragonHeart~

Edit: I don't know about anyone else but I've already started my character profile, which is looking to be rather involved as I want to have a very complete character. That said, I have a question regarding the technological level. I'm assuming each continent has a different level of advancement and I was wondering what they might be. I have a character who is not originally from Ivalice, so I would like to know what kind of limitations there are regarding what I can and can't include. This is mostly for background purposes, but it also has a bearing on what skills my character can bring to the table.

Actually your grammar and my grammar are awesome. I don't know why you're saying it's not. I mean look at the post you just wrote. The grammar is perfect.

His intro post has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about his thread on the world information, for pete's sake. >_<

His intro post is fine, but I honestly didn't really read all of it. But from what I read, it doesn't really remind me of the old school.

And as far as I'm concerned, I believe the academy to already be started; It's just that no one is doing anything. >_>; The only one that posted so far is joesteel. I doubt anyone else will.

Just prove me wrong.

Well, I'm still working on my character so it would be pointless for me to post right now. Plus I feel that I don't have enough information to properly 'equip' said character. I have a fairly ambitious idea in mind for her background but it relies primarily on the question I asked in my previous post.

As far as no one doing anything, that may be true but keep in mind you're also included in that category.

I feel that as far as the world information goes, it could stand to be a bit more organized and definitely more in-depth. I'd be more than happy to help contribute to the world's development, if only I knew what needed work.

Besides which, you know as well as I do that things like this take time to get off the ground. I'm just hoping we don't end up like the Clan/Forum Wars. ;!

~DragonHeart~

While I'm not a member of your little RP resuscitation, I figured I'd point a few things out that might be helpful. I've been keeping tabs on the RP community for quite some time.. since like 2001 if you want to be exact. I have been absent a good while due to life, but I still keep up-to-date and write stuff that is never published. If you feel like nuking my post since I'm not a member, that's up to you.

In any case, I'll point out that I'm not trying to piss anyone off, so don't start jumping to conclusions. Like I said, if it bothers you a ton, feel free to nuke it, you aren't hurting my feelings in the least. I'm just trying to help.

First order of business is Toph. Seriously dude, I like you... but it bugs me every time you jump on your high horse about your writing. You've improved your grammar a lot over the long haul, but IMHO you are not a rp vet. You still have a lot of work to do. For one thing, the majority of your characters are cookie-cutter replicas of each other(a smattering of irony due to your post on singular chars). It disappoints me whenever I read your bios because their personalities, behavior, looks, skills, etc are all so similar. I really don’t even need to read your bios because I can fully grasp the (lack of) depth within the first few lines of your intro. Your archetype is predominantly scantily-clad, full-figured women who use their looks to defeat opponents. You give them certain pseudo-unique qualities, but if you peel back the outer mask they wear, the core is eerily familiar. You need to branch out beyond your little niche and do more interesting and less stereotypical characters. Your characters have no soul… which means the reader can never connect with him or her. That also leads to short posts with no real character development. It is as if you never fleshed out your concept before starting. Your character says a few lines, strikes a pose, and your post is over. Where’s the meat? All I see are potatoes.

Secondly, T.G. Oskar, while I have not read through as many of your posts as I have others, I sense that you have a similar weakness to that of Andromeda. You are capable of developing vibrant, unique worlds rich in detail, but your expression of such detail becomes clunky and cumbersome due to grammar issues. Your grammar is not poor by any means. The main issue seems to be flow. The sentences and fragments simply do not blend together smoothly. I’m not trying to single you out or anything, just pointing out something you might wish to look into. I’ve seen it with quite a few people.

For example, I’ll just use the world’s first descriptive paragraph:

Quote:

---

The history of Terran Fas Fafner, due to the constant warfare, is a fragmented, shattered, and almost forgotten one. Few is rather known by the general population, but a legend spoken and recognized by the people speaks of the Covetous Dragon, Fafner.

---

Read straight through, this makes absolutely no grammatical sense and is hard to read. One idea I always give people is that if at any point in a sentence you have to stop to think, your sentence might need revision. If you are pausing at places where pauses feel unnatural, there might be a problem. Let’s start with the first sentence. “due to the” is one of those weird grammar chunks that should never be in the middle of a sentence. It immediately makes you stop and try to figure out what it is pointing to. Why? Because the effect is fragmented into two pieces with the cause smashed in the middle like the cream in an Oreo cookie. The warfare is fragmented, shattered, and almost forgotten or is the history?

The second sentence starts off bad and continues downhill into confusion. ‘Few is rather’. What are you referring to? Do you mean ‘little is known about the population’ or ‘the general population knows little about history’? Also, a legend cannot speak. It sounds as if people recognize a legend and speak of a dragon

To summarize, here is a different version of the paragraph:

Quote:

---

Due to constant warfare, the history of Terran Fas Fafner is fragmented and shattered, long forgotten by the general population. Their only clue to unlocking the mystery is the legend of the Covetous Dragon, Fafner.

---

Don’t get me wrong… it is part style. Unfortunately, style is a poor excuse for confusing flow. It is just something you might want to think about. It isn't personal. Hell, we all have problems. Most people are just too scared to point them out.

~~~~~~
One final note: I am pleased to see that people are trying to once again revive the RP forum. I really want to see this forum flourish. I just ask that you try to keep the overall world simplistic to a degree. The more complicated it is, the less likely people will be to participate in it. The major point of Roleplaying is the interaction between different writers, allowing a unique experience and story to be created from the blending of ideas. Forcing people down a given path not only bottlenecks creativity, it often leads to resentment and disinterest. That is not to say that it should be totally open to interpretation. Think of it like a MMORPG. You are given a basic world with a basic story. How you choose to go down that path is up to you and those you are with.

I'll just hope to have Vicious get online to remain working with the world, but about the technical advancement, that shouldn't be so hard...

Ivalice would have a technological advancement level roughly similar to the Early Renaissance, although as any good Italian Renaissance town (for those who do believe the Renaissance was only an Italian movement, not an European movement unlike the Baroque), and like most of Europe, it is capable of getting some of the technological advancements of the other continents via caravans and trading merchants, as well as a hefty merchant marine group of families. You could say Ivalice has some tools out of it's technological advancement level, such as, say, flintlock and percussion cap guns, early steam engines slowly surfacing, but nothing to really determine a shift in technological level.

Ordallia is definitely the most advanced civilization, and almost completely based upon Industrial Revolution, but with the typical gadgets that would be present within Steampunk. So don't be scared if you see steam-powered machines that would be present instead on a more advanced technological level, such as the Modern Age, given the spirit present in Steampunk. Also, expect the bulk of the cities to have the grim spirit of Steampunk. That does not mean all of them accept such ideas; the outer limits of Ordallia still retain their forests. But reach to the center, and the civilization becomes rather grim.

In between both of the two technological levels stands Rozarria. While the architectural motifs of each city state vary, the average technological level is roughly similar to the average technological level of the combined cities of Ivalice and Ordallia. However, while Ordallian-neighboring lands are forcefully advanced to close-Industrial age, Ivalice-neighboring states tend to be a bit more advanced than their neighbors.

Culture-wise, Ivalice and Ordallia are quite European based, with Rozarria serving as a group of states that could house theoretically any kind of civilization as long as there's a good explanation for it, given the great liberties within each state which would suggest a cultural attachment.

As a final point: I believe I've explained and clarified what seemed to be wrong: the world setting. I don't want to work anything more until Vicious comes, as together we can enhance the first post much more than myself alone. Still, if you wish to have any discussion related specifically to the world, such as ideas or suggestions, I'd prefer to keep them in that thread.

I have to add this because a bit of a confusion has stemmed from the intro post and the world setting. What seems to have all the horrible atrocities is the world setting, not the intro post. The intro post is just large. And the explanation a little bit too complicated. So, if you're going to judge, make it based on the lengthy world setting, which I'd already mentioned I'd fix out along with Vicious.

UPDATE: Vicious is undergoing a revision of the original post. That means he'll do a closer check of the original document and add more data (such as, hopefully, more info on Korxians and Krysterians, his two races). That'll also mean he'll add his own style to mine, so it'll be a style shift.

Don't take this as if I were giving up. He's also one of the world builders, it's more than natural for him to make the revision. This also means any further additions to the world will take several hours, days, or even MONTHS to complete. I will no longer write a wonderful yet flawed story in a couple of hours to have the same problem as I did with this. I recommend anyone to do the same.

O.o;

I know that's true for some of my characters, Merlin. But they're not copies of themselves. They're copies of who I am on the inside, if you catch my drift. And besides, haven't you read the bleach RP? I don't see any girls defeating opponents with their looks there. >_>;

I have a girl with big boobs, yes, but there's more to her than that. I have her sister who has small boobs *gasp* and defeats her opponents with her fists. Then I have a guy character (yes, a guy) who is calm and serene and majors in tactics and history. Then I have another female character who isn't all that bright, but enjoys running and sports. Then I have another guy character who is another martial artist, but is pretty obnoxious and rude, and cocky.

Then I created another red-head guy who is serious and seeks vengeance.. who happens to like omelets.

I'm still trying to branch out and stuff. There was even a dead RP where I created a girl who had practically no boobs at all and rarely spoke anything.

I mean, what's wrong with creating characters with the attributes that you prefer? Sure it gets old, but it's not against the rules or the law. And where have you been? There's plenty of meat. I write in first person now, and that fleshes out my characters a lot more than my half-assed difficult third person.

Edit: Wanting to be your best and Elitism aren't the same freaking thing. Wanting to be your best is part of human nature. So sue me if I constantly want to be at my best. I mean, if I can't have confidence in my writing, what should I have? Pessimism? Seriously, come on.

...Can we keep the personal comments to a minimum? I know this is largely supposed to be about improvement and how we all could do with some, but it's getting a little ego-centric around here and I should know...my ego is HUGE. Not so huge that I will spend an entire post ranting about myself or my views on others. I will save that for my blog or for any actual judgment posts I will be required to make in the course of this little venture.

Getting distracted at this stage is unacceptable.

As to the actual project at hand of the intro posts...I'm actually ready to make mine. my character is by no means complete, but he has enough substance to him already that I, quite frankly, love him. I can't wait for him to start moving and breathing on his own. (That kind of feeling is something I think we should try to engender with ALL of the characters we make in this project, disposable or not.) I would love to go ahead and grade joesteel, but narratively speaking it would make sense for Oskar to judge him first, unless we're not doing this in a narrative fashion and all in OOC. I wasn't very clear on that.

The only reason I'm waiting to post is I wanted to do a batch of a lot of students in one go. If thats not going to happen and Joe is going to be our only active student, then I don't care. I'll stick with this until someone else posts or this whole idea is run into the ground. What I will not discuss anymore are the relative merits of someones writing style when THEY'RE NOT EVEN BEING GRADED. It's a waste of time.

...Yeah. We don't want the club to be turned into the previous ones that were full of nothing but arguing and hate. >_<;

But anyway. I'm also working on my character profile. My character will be a Krystalian. I took a look at Leonarc's profile to see the basics of a Krystalian, so I should be good to go when I create my profile. I also, for the sake of curiousity, logged nearly every single character I have ever made at TFF into a notepad file. ...Out of the 27 characters that I have created, ...only three of them are voluptuous and have the personality to be scantily-clad; and one of the three is just a blatant scantily-clad whore with huge breasts.

Three out of twenty seven doesn't seem like "most" of my characters, eh? Sadly probably about 60% of them never really got used much because the RPs failed to start.

But ANYWAY. Profiles, yes. I'll be posting mine when it is complete.

*ahem*

I think a new subject needs to be suggested so we can move things along, lol. I'd like to bring up my idea of using classes for the characters of TFF as a way to help the students understand how to develop their own characters on a greater level. It composes of using the basic FFT system and starting out as one class and then "leveling the class up" in order to access another class. The difference is there won't really be any experience involved because what I figured would work best is by giving students job points (JP) after they do a mission depending on what they do.

Like let's say we send three students out on a mission to take out a weak monster harassing a farmer. For completing said mission, success will reward them with JP the same way you do little side missions in FFT. The students will role-play their way through the mission and a teacher will control the NPC of the monster.

I bring this up to know what the other staff members think of that. So what do you think? lol

P.S. - Merlin, if you wanna become a teacher, I could totally throw you in there, lol.

I think that kind of approach has a lot of issues inherent with it, not the least of which is the tendency of the system to become overly complicated. That's really what killed the Clan/Forum Wars, cause we tried designing an RP-based system, it got out of hand, and everyone just got fed up and left. I cannot honestly recommend such a feature as a good idea because I've seen it fail too many times.

Not only that, but I believe since we are trying to encourage higher quality posting, putting a numerical value on the writing will only serve to cheapen it. You'll have people rushing through missions as fast as they humanly can in order to rack up job points and earn new classes. It's the same grind syndrome as that in RPGs, in order to win it you've got to be the highest level, with the best weapons. Obviously it's not exactly the same thing, but the mentality still applies. Too much emphasis on forward progress.

That's just my take on it. I'd love to see a system like that work, but realistically it's more a kiss of death for this type of project. Whether or not we pursue it is up to the rest of you, I'm just trying to provide a little bit of insight into previous attempts to use the same basic idea.

~DragonHeart~

Well, the difference from the things you've experienced in the past and now is that I wasn't there to help better that system. I perfectly understand that if I imply too much RPG elements into an RP, then things do become cheaper and lose their quality. I've dealt with plenty of similar issues over my years and what I've come to develop is a knack for altering such things to properly fit what I need. In a sense, to me, it's like taking one part of a machine and putting it into a different machine in order to create a different, yet unique effect. In this case, we need to develop something that can allow students to learn how to creatively build their characters without hurting the quality of the creativity or role-playing.

How about the idea of a sharing system? Missions will require the use of a buddy in order to complete them and if the students succeed, they must divide the points depending on who did the most work. The idea will teach the students to learn how to interact with one another in order to accomplish many things, while at the same time creating that flare of competition, like--"If I'm going to get more points next time, I'm going to have to do better!"--that kind of thing. One of the single most successful ideas in all kinds of games is the level of competition, quite often creating such fierce rivalries or levels of friendship that it goes beyond what we see. The bonds I have with many of my online friends came from playing with them in online games and working together in order to improve ourselves while having fun.

Now, of course, there will have to be rules of respect so that things don't get out of hand with people throwing tantrums, but if there is anything that will bring people together, it's unity in similar causes.

How about that?

That's exactly what I mean about complicating the system. Believe me, no matter how good it sounds on paper, in actual practice it rarely works out that way. How do you think the CW/FW system started? Simple, but then the same issues you're trying to address started coming up, and the spiral into dissolution began. I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, I just don't think it's workable in a forum environment.

I can already see the sharing system failing. Sure, there will be rivalries and possibly friendships, but also arguments over who contributed more and who gets the most points, then flame wars, then people start getting banned. It's an unfortunate fact of life but teens and adults don't play any better together than children do. It's silly really, but that's how it goes.

For the record, the Forum Wars were actually an attempt to fix the problems we had with Clan Wars by simplifying everything. :) It didn't work and actually ended up being just as, if not more complicated, if I recall correctly. Merlin could probably fill in the gaps, as I wasn't a major player on the development side of things. I just saw the results. Or lack thereof, to be precise.

Either way, feel free to disregard my advice if you really want to push ahead with it. I merely felt obligated to provide a word of caution against it for reasons already mentioned. If you think you can do it better then by all means, give it a try.

~DragonHeart~

Ok then, do you have a suggestion that will help the students develop their characters? (Sorry for the one-liner) >>.

Yeah, let them do it the same way the rest of us do, by using them in actual RP/B situations. =p And of course, by us setting good examples. That's how I learned, by watching what the good RPers did and basically imitating them until I developed my own style. To this day I still remember characters of people who aren't even here anymore because they were such an inspiration to my writing. Hell, I could probably RP half their characters entirely from memory. XD

I don't think the Academy should be a rigid, business-only type of thing anyways. I feel we would benefit more by being informal, less of a "you need to write this way" and more of a "you're doing pretty well, but let me offer you some pointers" kind of thing. Making newbies feel inferior is not going to help with activity or overall improvement. We should have a friendlier approach, basically.

Of course, what I think and what may actually work are two different things. I know that when I first started out, there were no real guidelines besides godmodding, yet TFF's best RPers were of that era. You don't see that quality so much these days because, in my opinion, there's way too much pomp and ceremony about it all. It's all about grammar and spelling and flow. It used to be about the story. Some of the best RP/Bs weren't even the most well-written ones, they were the ones with the best story and I think that's a fact that's been forgotten. But, I digress. Sorry to go off reminiscing, I think I'm getting old. XD

Anyways, my rambling psuedo-point is that while I'm not saying RP has gone completely down the tubes, it was just different when I was really active here, and I've noticed a huge shift in quality in the past few years. I'm just speculating on why that might be, really. It's hard to say since the RP forum got pruned and we lost some of the best RPs ever. =/ I don't think there's even anything in the archives anymore.

Bottom line is, maybe a return to basics might help turn it around. The more layers you have, the less likely this project is to succeed.

~DragonHeart~

I'm going to have to agree with Crystal here. We should return to the basics and see how things go. I remember what she was reminiscing about because I was apart of that era, too. I had a lot of fun imitating some of the great RPers I've seen here and creating my own characters. I sucked really bad back then. I think it took me about a month or so to improve drastically, then I just improved slowly over the years until I got to where I am today.

We all sucked back then, haha. Well, besides those who were already vets. Asterisks and all that shit. I don't know if you remember that though, they were put to rest shortly after I joined, I think.

Man, those were some fun times though. Quistis and Heero had those incredible 2 or 300+ post RPBs, I remember seeing two or three of them at least. And of course the classic Jet Pack SOLDIERS, in which a terrible RP was turned into an epic of comedic gold. And the EBG/Tantalus movies! Hahaha those were awesome. There was some crazy shit back then but damn, it was fun. Remember when all the clans had spies infiltrating each other? XD

...Sorry, this isn't really contributing anything useful, is it? ;! It was like a different forum entirely in those days.

ETA: I wonder if anyone still has copies of the old clan banners. Merlin if you read this, got the old Tanty one still? :D

~DragonHeart~

Alright, I'm not going to be soft on this one. I'm going to sound perhaps the coldest I've ever been perceived.

Stop. Reminiscing. About. Old. Times.

If you begin with the "ah, the old times", you're seeking to return to an old era, one that perhaps may frighten the newcomers.

Now, there's a good point that definitely comes into mind: the story.

I've participated in a few RPs, to date I can only remember one. I've never been such a fan of Final Fantasy VIII, yet Red XIV made a very interesting story blending the elements of the game into an entirely new setting. I remember that everyone was "my character is the #00378th copy of Squall", but each had something memorable. While most of the characters were SeeD students, and there was little originality on them (sorry Red, if you're still seeing me!!), there was something to the story that enthralled me. I found a niche where I could actually enter in (the RP was already underway), and I made long and interesting posts.

That moment, no one ever asked me about grammar, or flow, or style. Just to beware from altering the story from its current course. And I did my best to keep it that way.

Now, if the story wasn't one that really interested me, I would have refused to enter, and few would ever consider me a potential RPer, despite the amount of skill on tabletop RPGs. I have to agree with Dragonheart; the story is of greater importance than the quality of the posts.

But there's a limit to the skill in the posts. What I've seen recently are bland stories, lack of notice to depth, improper use of cliche (cliche isn't bad, and it's at times expected; what's bad is using so much the story becomes predictable), bland characters (everyone does a bland character now and then: seeking to find its favored concept, seeking to experiment with new concepts, perhaps using a concept unfamiliar or even disliked in favor of remaining in line with the storyline), and perhaps the worst enemy of current RP threads, abandonment by their creators. Perhaps being unskilled isn't that important, but it's necessary.

Of course, not everyone thinks like me. Perhaps what Toph believes is the problem isn't what Merlin or Dragon, or even Vicious and me think it may be. Because we see it in different terms:

I see this using a tabletop background. I suffer from seeing things in a mechanical sense: how will the mechanics work. That doesn't mean I cannot roleplay efficiently, but that I pay quite a lot of attention to the skills and abilities and tools of the character before entering the fray. Yet, I've also noticed that I must have a certain degree of respect for the other writers, so I cannot expect to have the RP fall into my hands. Otherwise, people will get bored and leave. That stems in part from my tabletop roleplaying style: I usually tend to remain in the sidelines, letting others hog the glory and being a team player, so as long as they don't mess with me or my beliefs.

Andro, on the other hand, sees RP upon his writing experiences. Perhaps I may be wrong, but I perceive a lot of care into the posts he does in all sections of the forum, something that stems from his love of writing. That should reflect into his RP posts, where detail and mental image surpass other aspects such as action. You'll see more detail of the mental condition of the character or the setting description, or even the action executed, more than a constant flow of action. There's a good flow of action and description, but it's a slow flow. Again, this is how I perceive it. I might be wrong, but I dunno each of you to make a precise description.

Merlin seeks simplicity. Definitely, the simplest answer is the correct answer for him. That translates into an RP style that has good care of flow by limiting to the simplest explanation. A.K.A, Merlin's posts have enough content, but are easy to read. And he can go the long way, but he feels the longer the post, the more complex it becomes, and hence the worse it will be. When he saw my post, he noticed the problem it has because of one reason: it wasn't simple to understand. This makes for a faster flow, a condensed set of actions where he squeezes as much action as he can without breaking the actions into particles with little to no relation into each other. So, when you speak of style Merlin, do realize the following: not everyone will feel comfortable with your style, nor it will be easy to change a familiar style to a system that suits yours.

Dragon makes her posts the old way: the important part is the story. Pay just enough attention to grammar and to flow, but the story is sacred. Get into the mood of the story: if it's drama, be as dramatic as you can be; if it's comedy, cause a laughing riot on there. If the story isn't as interesting, perhaps it isn't perceived the right way: seek what the people prefer, and make a change to the mood of the story so that the largest amount of people enjoy the story. And if necessary, do it again and again.

Toph does her posts close to the old way, but her need for grammar and style stems from her earlier experiences. By now we all know Toph was a noob once, and not the best RP noob. But, the way she was led to proper roleplaying has caused her to adopt a radical stance. At first, she may have cared little for proper grammar, but now she's close to being a Grammar Nazi. Or the closest thing to it. Could that be a reflection of how she was treated? Try telling Toph she'll have to teach students in a passive way, rather than in a more active way: she won't agree to that idea, because she sees the way she was trained as the correct way.

And let's end with Vicious. His decision to make a unified world and an academy that could use that world stems from his preference in Roleplaying. He prefers to have an organized RP, an organized RPB; in other words, to have control. If he feels he's losing the control of the matter, he'll think about it, and perhaps he'll leave or become a bit more strict on the deviant matter. He understands the need for cooperation on a Roleplaying story thread, but if he feels his grip on his character or bit of the story loosing, he may not remain for long.

Now, I'm pretty sure you might be thinking two things. One, "this makes little sense". I'm getting to that now. The second may be, "well, it's close, but you failed to nail me for X/Y/Z reasons, (X=a few, Y=some, Z=all)". This is part rant, and I'm not a mind reader nor psychologist, but at least something should be correct in each of the portrayals. But the important matter is, "why all of those paragraphs above?"

I could say those are the teacher's styles. And each style will bleed towards the student, as the styles of each student bled towards Toph's current RPing style (for good or for bad). When I meant to keep it as subjective as possible, I failed to realize I was instinctively (or unconsciously) referring to this particular point. To what extent we'll keep using an unified system, simply mentioning pointers or using a set of guidelines, without our own styles interfering?

I say this because, in the end, what seems to be the root of all the problem is the clash between styles. I know the importance of keeping it simple; why I still write in a complex and confusing way should be a mystery. Though, if you consider that I work with TWO grammatical rules with great differences (Spanish does allow the exchange of words, so as long as there is a subject and verb phrases; English is stricter in the matter, although prone to poetic license). Sometimes, when I'm not in the mood to correct, one of the grammatical rules bleeds into the other, even when I'm thinking in English, because of familiarity. And, there will be times where I understand what I write so clearly I pay no attention to that syntax mistakes (hence why I ask at times to point me to those mistakes; I don't have a perfect grammar nor a habit to perfectly apply the correct grammatical rule to the correct language) Similar events happen as well: sometimes it's better to give a lavish description of the events, sometimes it's better to focus on the grammar to convey the exact meaning of the word or deliver a hidden message within the writing.

It's not going to be easy to judge or advise writing with such divergent styles, no matter if we keep to mere advice, or become strict judges. I'm not part of the early attempts at roleplaying, but I'm sure each person had their own style, and they weren't attacked by it; rather, they placed more importance on letting the story flow.

...alright, that was a long rant. Perhaps needless, perhaps just what we needed. Who knows. All I know is, if we're to make a successful Academy, we shouldn't resort to petty differences in styles, as if style were an excuse to being lazy. Perhaps we just need to be lazy at times to fully enjoy the story.

I dunno. Me thinks Draco and Firaga are enjoying their RPBs and their attempts at RPing, and are paying little attention to our petty bickering. I sense talent in Draco, a talent that could be harvested and shaped. There's also Firaga, and Loner-Kid; both look upon us as the vets (regardless of the time we've spent here), and wish to absorb our talents and shape their styles from it. I sense that all of the people in the Academy wanted to do the same: learn from those who are supposed to know, not provoke a battle between those who are supposed to teach them. Sometimes, even the "best" roleplayers need someone to watch their backs, and be a bit less harsh on how they treat their peers.

Because...if we're to treat each other with harsh severity, what will they expect of us?

[/rant]

On the nature of classes...what little I've learned from the RP tells me a mechanical approach to classes cannot work. Classes come naturally as forms of expressing the relative talent and amount of skills and abilities they possess: a Warrior and a Mage are very different; so are a Priest and an Archbishop. It's easier to say "I'm a dragoon" than saying "I'm a heavily armored warrior that uses a spear and uses jumping charge techniques" (here, simplicity > description). Of course, some RPs forbid the use of classes because they are meant to be played within a free-form system that focuses on race, or talent, rather than on the actual skill; that does not say classes aren't going to come to mind wherever an RP is to be constructed. In fact, call me lazy on that, but classes are the best form of reference for even the expert RPers. You can deviate, or remain strict to the definition of the class, but you'll expect at least half of what the description says about it.

I wouldn't say no to a mission where the student earns it's profession. Let's call it the "Job Fair". But it should explain what is the nature of a class, the benefits and disadvantages, and why it's usually good to begin with a class while still a beginner (and why afterwards it's better to deviate from classes and begin to think in skill synergy). But I have to digress on making the class a purely mechanical aspect. That decision should affect the choice of the character: a student that chooses a Knightly class for his character should behave in a manner a Knight would normally behave. I advocate for a clas system as I believe it is a wonderful way for beginners to experience a forum Roleplaying setting, but make a class a qualitative aspect rather than a quantitative aspect. Little bit less Final Fantasy and Dungeons & Dragons, and a bit more Elder Scrolls or, say, Romancing Saga (where the class influences some aspects and skill growths rather than granting classes); in this case it would change towards influencing skill choices but not the moment when it learns them.

Maybe later on, you may focus on teaching a student how to transform his character choices into a set of skills, to create a comparison between the class and the concept (which is the true nature of a forum RP character). But for that, we need to go step by step; not rush too quick or hog too much info down their throats.

Hmm.. Yeah. You have no one's styles right at all, and from what I understand about the student's styles bleeding into my RPing style... are you calling me a retarded noob that can't RP? Is that it? Honestly I have no idea what the hell you're rambling on about, and I have a feeling that you don't either.

Honestly. Why can't we reminisce? It's just harmless reminiscing. We're not saying anything close to "oh, we want things back the way we were". You think too much. You said yourself that you're not a psychic, so don't act like one.

Merlin's not even a teacher...

And not to mention that when you say we wish to go back to an old era... Isn't that what this RP Academy essentially is? We wish to repeat it or surpass it, regardless if you didn't even know what it was like. *shrug*

I dunno..

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at with your rant here, Oskar. Sure, the old times are perhaps something best left to those who remember, but there's no reason to disregard what we have to say out of hand. I wanted to share some of my experience of the past in the hopes of helping improve the future by providing insights you may not otherwise have. Had the issue of the JP system not come up I would not have posted what I did. However, because I have seen these systems before, and seen them fail, I felt it prudent to share my thoughts on the matter. The only way to do that is through comparison, and that is what I did.

I do agree that my last post was unnecessary and I will remove it if you feel so inclined to make such a demand of me. It's simply hard to not think about the past when part of it is perhaps reoccurring in this very thread. I meant no harm by it, nor do I seek to belittle those who were not present. Our perspectives are different, that's all. I was under the impression when I was offered the invite that my knowledge and experience would be an asset to this project. That's what I offered.

I will disregard the erroneous judgments about our styles, though. I feel that part of your post was unwarranted, honestly.

But getting back to the matter at hand, classes. I don't think they really need to be spelled out in a lot of detail since most people who come here are very familiar with the concepts. This is a forum based on an RPG series, after all. I think a good focus would be ways to translate those class skills and abilities into a more workable form, especially considering the limitations inherent within our current RP/B system. It would almost certainly require teaching at a one-on-one level in order to tailer each skill set to a character. Using a more general form tends to lead toward the uber side, as it's so easy to get carried away with ideas.

~DragonHeart~

Ok people, loosen up. This shouldn't go farther than it already is and we should be getting back on track. I'd like to listen to a few more suggestions about my idea and a little less hostility. Oskar's right when it comes to the confliction within everyone's own style, but we don't want to take it to a personal level, especially within this kind of club. The same kind of stuff has killed clans I've been with in the past and it's really not needed. Let's move back to the subject at hand before we lose sight of why we're trying to help the RPing community.

Alright, before this gets out of hand and I have to do some warning or something. I'm going to close this thread temporarily for a day. It'll give you all some time to cool off and collect yourself. You're all good members and thankfully all above what this would have quickly devolved into if it were anyone else. However, you are all human and restraint can only last for so long.

So the drama ends for a day. Shadow, I won't be back until 10:30pm tomorrow. So you can reopen it back at 9:00pm CST or 7:00pm your time. This just a cooling period for you. You've been doing pretty well staying level headed and I'm glad for that. But I've seen drama enough to know where this can head. I don't want to see this broken up over a small argument. So come back tomorrow once you had some time to sleep on things.

Alright, the time has come up and I hope we have all cooled our heads by then. I hope we can find some alternatives to the initial setup so that this Academy can prosper instead of fall and crumble.

Briefly since i'm out of time, having read alll this. I think we should take theory out of the shop floor and focus on the practise of what we're doing right now. If we try to fly before we can walk, let alone run, it's just going to degenerate into everyones opinion screaming at each other repeatedly until the entire edifice shakes itself to peices. I think it would be best if we came up with options outside of this thread and then brought them back either for people to vote on, or simple say what we are going to do instead of putting it to everyone for their advice.

One thing at a time might also be a good idea.

First off, Anomaly just recently told me about his computer problem. His computer is practically dead and he's searching for a new one, so we won't see him for about a week.

Back onto Academy business, I had another idea in mind.

EDIT: Why not instead give every teacher their own classroom? This could allow students some room to breathe instead of just jumping into an exercise, doing the exercise, and then getting "paid" for it. With classrooms for each teacher (or classes that have more than one teacher), they could truly build students up like in an actual school, except it would make things fun AND students could role-play their character in each class.

What do you guys think?

I feel his pain. Still don't have mine back. -.- Probably gonna do the same thing and buy another one, just need to yank the old HD. Irritating.

Sounds interesting, but how would we set it up? Would each student have their own RP where they travel from class to class, or would each teacher have a class RP in which students enter and leave as each "day" progresses? Or something else entirely. It could go either way, though for the sake of consistency I'd vote for each class having its own RP.

And, while I'm on a related note, are we going to have physical descriptions of the main Academy locations? Like the layout and such. I thought about writing an introduction and realized I have no idea what anything looks like. ;! Granted, we could write our own versions, but if everyone wrote in their own interpretations we're going to have one weird looking campus. =P

ETA: Oh yeah, I don't know if it's too soon for this sort of thing but I actually have an idea for a secondary character. He's kind of like an assistant to my main so he'd play a mostly minor role in things. Just want to double check before I go posting his profile. And no, it's nowhere near as long as my other one. :D

~DragonHeart~

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Sounds interesting, but how would we set it up? Would each student have their own RP where they travel from class to class, or would each teacher have a class RP in which students enter and leave as each "day" progresses?

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I was thinking of something along the lines of the teachers having their own thread. In this case, yes, students would go back and forth through each place, though luckily, the idea will be that the students can choose which class they want to go to besides the basic writing and grammar classes. Just like high school. If they want to specifically want to learn how to write and RPB, they can just take the two classes.

Now, of course, some teachers will have to join together because if we gave everyone their own thread, we would most likely have repeating classrooms that all teach the same thing. For example, Oskar and Anomaly could teach RPBattles or Xeim and you teaching RPing.

There would also be a schedule each teacher could have, but not in a "you have to be here at 9AM, my time" way, but more like they'll have lessons for the whole day or even week that students could learn without fitting it into their own schedules.

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And, while I'm on a related note, are we going to have physical descriptions of the main Academy locations? Like the layout and such. I thought about writing an introduction and realized I have no idea what anything looks like. Granted, we could write our own versions, but if everyone wrote in their own interpretations we're going to have one weird looking campus. =P

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Ayeyayai, I completely forgot about that. I'll get Oskar and see if we can put something together.

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ETA: Oh yeah, I don't know if it's too soon for this sort of thing but I actually have an idea for a secondary character. He's kind of like an assistant to my main so he'd play a mostly minor role in things. Just want to double check before I go posting his profile. And no, it's nowhere near as long as my other one.

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What exactly would your assistant do?

Not a whole lot, honestly. He's mostly there cause he follows Pharis around. >.>; He helps out mainly with her inventions and Sunstone hunting, but he shows up more or less anywhere she is. I actually came up with him yesterday and thought about altering my original profile to reflect it but I didn't want to make it longer than it already is, hence the need for a second profile. Or not, I could just have him roaming around as a psuedo-NPC. Whatever works, really. Or none of the above if you'd rather wait and see how things start out.

~DragonHeart~

On the classroom idea:

I have to agree with you that it sounds interesting and fun. I thought so too when I started Memories of a Shinigami. But, as you can see, Memories runs pretty slow. People get bored of classroom settings pretty fast. Now, you can make them interesting, and as an RPer that should be your job. But most people just...don't do this.

Now, Memories is surviving. People post in it still, but some make it quite plain through the content in their posts that they're bored and want to move on. =P Others just stop posting. I'm not saying that you should scrap this idea and start over. I'm just sharing with you my experience on the matter.

If you have some way to force such a setting to be interesting, then that solves the problem. But dropping people into classes and then shoving ideas and advice down their throat is usually...not well recieved. Writer's Academy died before it began due to an idea like that. In fact, we had a few similar ideas to the stuff happening here...and everyone lost interest before it began. Heh. ^^;

Yeah, that's definitely a point I've been concerned with since the beginning too, Xeim. We've had several incarnations of this idea over the years and they all fell into that one major pitfall. Though the idea of having a static world is appealing, allowing the sort of consistency and detail that usually fall to the wayside, it's still all for naught if no one's interested in following through. I don't think we've ever had a successful school-based RP because of the factors you mentioned. At least, none that I can recall.

Perhaps...have it less focused on the school aspect and more on missions, or something similar. The closest I can compare it to is FFVIII with SeeD missions and those post-mission reports. You get your mission, go out and complete it (or try to), then on returning the teacher/instructor ranks you based on your performance. At the very least it's more interesting than sitting in a virtual classroom. =X I just can't think of any realistic way to make an RPed lecture and/or exercises interesting.

~DragonHeart~

That's about exactly what I was thinking. I wouldn't want the students to be cooped up sitting in some classroom while the teacher writes something on the blackboard. I'd want the students to experience role-playing in better environments that will keep them entertained. The most perfect example would be the RPB classroom, probably used within the training dojo in the academy.

Also, you know, how about teachers setup the missions too? We could use NPC's that would be played by the teacher to create various scenarios depending on the lesson. It would allow the students to be able to use their characters in more experiencing situations and learn by doing, not by copying something down on the same blackboard, :P.

So here we have teachers with their own classrooms and can create their own missions. How's that?