The TFF Council

[Victoria]

Given they are IMs used for chat, maybe they'd be better put in General Chat. Eh? Eh? XD See what I did there? XDD

I kill me. ;-;

Anyway. Laura did go through the trouble to make the forum, so the least we can do is, for now, use it. If it doesn't work out, Fuzz and I worked out some ideas that the Council can use. I'm just going to run them by Lococolt first.

Fuzz agrees with Treize in that the polls should be opened up to the TFF Public, and what do you know, usergroups can have polls. They just need special permissions to be used.

I asked him what would be better, and he says a setup like a public usergroup and a private subforum would be best, although, I haven't the slightest clue as to what the private subforum would be used for. I don't think I've ever had any private issues to talk to Kilala with.

[SOLDIER #819]

If we decide to make a social group for TFFC or use the forum Kilala made for discussing current ideas, this thread would be useless unless we are now using it as a registration and brainstorming thread.

Registration would work. It can also be used for important progress updates and voting announcements so that people can know what's going on without having to check the forum extra often.

As for the MSN thread, I'm working on it right now and updated the list Kilala made before with recent posts. Some members gave out yahoo and aim addresses along with their MSN address, so I decided to put everything together and make the thread include all IMs. Do we want this under General Chat or Member Businesses ? (Ocean asked this previously)

I wonder if it is possible to have it under both. I seem to remember there being a clone thread sort of option... but I don't remember how it worked or if it has changed. If not, I think General Chat's flow of traffic would make it better suited.

[Azuteor]

TFF Member IM Address Book has been created and updated. Feel free to post your IM addresses if you haven't already. Mistress Sheena, could you sticky the thread please? Thanks.

Congratulations you guys! We finished one of our goals!

[Kilala]

First of all I would just like to make this point! And it's an important one at that ^~.

Yes I did make the TFF forum on invisionfree. However. You do NOT have to use it if you don't want. I want you all to know, if you are not comfortable with it and think we can come up with a better solution then just tell me and I can delete it. It was no problem making it. I even enjoyed it... Like old times making and looking after a forum - so think of it as you've already done me the favour of just considering it.

My point is... if you believe that it is

a) Wrong
b) Unjustified
c) Useless
d) Stupid
e) Silly
f) All of the above

Just say it! I did make the effort but as I said before - it was just a random idea, and you know what? I just wanted to show what I was prepared to do for this club and for TFF. If it has too many kinks then we scrap it and look for a new solution! We really do need to layout some discussions in a 'cleaner' way though. That is if we want to take this seriously.

I would also like to take this time just to say - if used a group/forum this thread would NOT, and I repeat, NOT become inactive. No way. We just need an area for reviews, updates and most importantly polls. I amongst other members here have noticed a nasty habit we have developed here. We go on and don't fully resolve and issue and/or there are a few 'disagreements'. My job now is to step up a gear and make this a more efficient engine. Look at the post count. People care. That is what is essential... now we just need to harvest that efficiently. Lets do it <3

Mistress Sheena: A private forum? I may be making some blonde mistakes here, but I assume that is just when selected members are given access? Could be possible if you discussed it with Fuzz. Learning also that groups can have polls is encouraging too. This would allow us to keep Council business on the TFF domain. I like that alot.
So guys, do you believe we can discuss this further? Or is it a dead end? I like to think this has potential.

Azuteor - Excellent work! Our first true accomplishment! Once stickied we can officially show TFF we mean business and got something done. I'm very proud of this group at this moment and if I could make everyone muffins I would x3.
One thing though ^~ Sheena can't sticky it as she's not a mod of the GC forum, perhaps if OceanEyes could do the honour?
Once again. Congratulations! This is the beginning of good things <33

Meier Link - Nice work! Now we just really need the Adopters to write their bios. I'll have mine done today and will PM it to you as it may get lost in further discussions here. Today is a great day - real progress.

Right so I have alot to do today it seems! And that includes my reading of the past posts. Over and out with sugar and cookies <3

[Unknown Entity]

What's the problem with using the usergroup thingies for discussion? It seems to me like it would be easier and just as organized to get discussion for new ideas going, as everything would be organized in its own subthread or whatever you would call it. I don't really see the need for a whole entire extra forum, but its all up to you guys.

He has a point.

With a forum, anyone can join and spam the hell out of the place. With the social groups, I imagine you could monitor the people joining. You can also make different topics in there to discuss. Also, taking the Council away from TFF will slow things down - seriously, who'll remember its there and be able to go on it every single day? I'm aware you could tab it, but keeping it on the same site makes it easier to look at and get to.

Keep in mind I thought it was a very good idea, Kilala, and I'm happy you went to such lengths in a bit to help TFF, but... making a social group on here might be easier.

Mistress Sheena: A private forum? I may be making some blonde mistakes here, but I assume that is just when selected members are given access? Could be possible if you discussed it with Fuzz. Learning also that groups can have polls is encouraging too. This would allow us to keep Council business on the TFF domain. I like that alot.
So guys, do you believe we can discuss this further? Or is it a dead end? I like to think this has potential.

I think social groups can be made private. We don't need to add on a private forum - we're not mods, more of a social group (lmao) wanting to make a difference.

>>;;
*hides*

[Kilala]

He has a point.

With a forum, anyone can join and spam the hell out of the place. With the social groups, I imagine you could monitor the people joining. You can also make different topics in there to discuss. Also, taking the Council away from TFF will slow things down - seriously, who'll remember its there and be able to go on it every single day? I'm aware you could tab it, but keeping it on the same site makes it easier to look at and get to.

On the mention of anyone can join and spam out the place I'd just like to point out I'd be extremely vigilant and monitor activity. Any unnecessary spam would not be tolerated and would indeed be cleared out of the way.
I agree that people could get lost - which is certainly a get disadvantage of the system. I agree whole heartedly.

And with reference to we're just like 'Social Group', I don't believe that to be particularly true. Social groups are for fun and chatting... We're a step up from that and so the 'Club' was formed. If on that train of thought aren't all clubs social groups then? I think we're at least one step above that.

My one problem is, if everything that the Council does is private, other members can not see how we are contributing to the community. I don't know if this would be seen as an issue or not... but hey! I know we're not mods, but the fact of the matter is we are speaking on the behalf on TFF. We shouldn't dismiss it really. Okay I know I go overboard - but I truly believe this can really make a difference. It is an outlet for people's voices of opinion... We are able to put forward our suggestions to help improve TFF.

Overall I concur on most points you made Entity <333

And Rocky!

I don't really see the need for a whole entire extra forum, but its all up to you guys.

I am going to have to correct you on that! Rocky, it us up to US. The members of the TFF Council.

[Meier Link]

Right now I am thinking I am going to write a template for the bio's that way there is some type of set standard and uniformity amongst each one. I am thinking it should kept simplistic. Something like

Age:
Favorite FF:
Intrests:
Misc. Information:

That way an adoptee can not only find someone their own age to mentor them if they want, they can find someone with common interests outside of just FF. Obviously FF would fall into interest seeing we are here on a FF forum so I think interests should be something that is out side of forum life. I think it should be wrote in third person. Misc information could be used for anything that doesn't fall into the other three, like for instance, if someone is a cat lover they could put that there or if they are an inspiring writer. I think you get the picture on that one.

Actually I think this is good enough for a bio, so I say use the above as a template.

PM me what you fill out because I don't want the club cluttered with bios.

[Victoria]

So we don't need the forum then. And yes, that's what a private forum is, my dear Kilala. Fuzz brought up a private forum just in case we had "private matters" to discuss away from the public, but I think PMs/MSN are good for those, because we don't really have anything private to discuss except for maybe evaluations of applications.

[Kilala]

So as of now it of the upmost importance that all Adopters fill out the form and PM it back to Meier Link. That bio looks perfect by the way ^^.

And Sheena, quite rightly said. MSN is the perfect outlet for private discussions - there is no point in us being greedy now is there? ;3


From the conclusion of most members of the TFF Council I hereby announce the Council Forum CLOSED. Thank you all for considering it <3.

[Chez Daja]

Wait, what?

We can't just use a shitty usergroup for all of this. And we can't clutter it into one thread either! That's ludicrous and would take absolutely ages to sort out. A forum makes this whole thing a thousand times more effective. Nobody says we can't keep both this thread, the forum AND make a usergroup. The bigger the idea, the better.

Are we getting a subforum? Because I looked and apparently not. I hate this stupid usergroup idea. People will just forget to check up on it and we'll have responces limited to what, 2000 characters per usergroup post? Pfft.

[Kilala]

XD Calm down Chez! For starters I didn't delete the forum it's just offline. If it is wanted to be reopened I only have to click a couple of buttons.
Usergroups have both pros and cons... I think the main problem is we will be taking some of the talk away from TFF. Which in a way isn't right...
Hopefully today we will get closer to a conclusion to this matter. *Hopes*

[Chez Daja]

I'm calm, , it's just that taking the forum offline seems like such a waste. I know you enjoyed it and all that, but it's not as if we'd have to close this thread if we were to reopen the forum. We could still post a huge referral post in this thread about what was being discussed in the forum. Not only that, but we could post the link to the thread and the new forum in sigs and on threads to advertise it to people who want to join and observe or help out. I don't think there's anything wrong with taking some of this thread activity to a new place. Branching out means that we'll be given the leeway for more ideas.

It's really not my decision, but I think some of the members here need to reconsider what it would mean to have another area of discussion. It's not "up and leave" with TFF. It's branching out and that's a good thing.

[Kilala]

Hmm okay... well I'll reopen the forum then, but I just didn't want to waste people's time ^^. We have several options open to us... I think ~^ *Glomps Chez*
I just think that people don't like the idea of taking it away from TFF. I can see that, but what can we do? If the usergroups allow polls isn't that a plus? I fully agree that the word count is limiting. However if an admin could raise that, then may it be a possible route?

Anyway, I'll reopen the forum. It is crucial that our ideas are given the correct presentation I agree - I only want to find a way in which the vast majority of the members here can agree on and be happy with.

[SOLDIER #819]

Kilala, out of curiosity, what would you like to do? If you don't feel comfortable replying, that's okay, it just feels like you're being bounced around in every direction like in a pinball machine. >_>

Maybe it's time to put up a poll to settle this once and for all? The cons for each option seem to be as follows:

Board: Outside of TFF
Forum on TFF: May cause trouble with other clubs/social groups at TFF, need permission
Social Group: Hidden from the public eye of TFF, character limit [can be fixed]

Edit: Also, congrats on getting the MSN thing up, アズテオル.

[Meier Link]

Sorry for derailing back to this but I wanted to show this after getting Sheenas permission.

Age: 25
Favorite FF: Tactics
Interests: Anime/Manga, Writing, Modeling, Books
Misc. Information: Sheena can be rather blunt at times (read: constantly), but she means well and is never mean to people unless they cross her threshold. She has the demeanor of a Mistress, but isn't a control freak.

This is EXACTLY what I am looking for in a bio; short sweet and to the point. Adopters, please use this as a bench mark for when you are writing yours.

[Victoria]

Actually no, the social group isn't out of the public eye.
I don't know if I've said this yet, but the "All Groups" link now works in the groups main page. So if you click that, you can see TFF Council. Also when TFF Council is created, it'll be under the "New Groups", and you know how often that doesn't change. >_>;

Edit: Just told Fuzz about the 2,000 char limit in usergroups. Apparently he was unaware of this. He'll be increasing it to 25,000 when the DNS kicks in for him.

[Unknown Entity]

Age: 25
Favorite FF: Tactics
Interests: Anime/Manga, Writing, Modeling, Books
Misc. Information: Sheena can be rather blunt at times (read: constantly), but she means well and is never mean to people unless they cross her threshold. She has the demeanor of a Mistress, but isn't a control freak.

*wishes I was new*

We can't just use a shitty usergroup for all of this. And we can't clutter it into one thread either! That's ludicrous and would take absolutely ages to sort out. A forum makes this whole thing a thousand times more effective. Nobody says we can't keep both this thread, the forum AND make a usergroup. The bigger the idea, the better.

Are we getting a subforum? Because I looked and apparently not. I hate this stupid usergroup idea. People will just forget to check up on it and we'll have responces limited to what, 2000 characters per usergroup post? Pfft.

The forum might make it more effective, but if it is hosted off TFF, who is to say people will forget it is there, just a like a user group? If anyone is anything like me, I tend to sign up to forums, post once or twice, and leave/forget about the place. If the forum is on TFF, it would have to be made private to stop people not in the Council spamming when we're discussing an issue. I mean, its important they get their ideas down because we're all here together, but getting a noob halfway through going "zomg, i <3 dat idea! tff 4ev@!", people will get pissy because its of no use to us - just taking up space.

I heard something about the social groups giving notifications as to when they have been updated... unsure how much is true...

Also with a social group, we can make it so people can view what we are talking about, but also make it so that we can moniter who is joining. AND we can have different topics to talk about in the social group - JUST like a forum.

Please no one hate me. >>;
*hides*

[Darkdragoon]

*wishes I was new*



The forum might make it more effective, but if it is hosted off TFF, who is to say people will forget it is there, just a like a user group? If anyone is anything like me, I tend to sign up to forums, post once or twice, and leave/forget about the place. If the forum is on TFF, it would have to be made private to stop people not in the Council spamming when we're discussing an issue. I mean, its important they get their ideas down because we're all here together, but getting a noob halfway through going "zomg, i <3 dat idea! tff 4ev@!", people will get pissy because its of no use to us - just taking up space.

I heard something about the social groups giving notifications as to when they have been updated... unsure how much is true...

Also with a social group, we can make it so people can view what we are talking about, but also make it so that we can moniter who is joining. AND we can have different topics to talk about in the social group - JUST like a forum.

Please no one hate me. >>;
*hides*

Why would we hate you ^^?
I know im the noob and my opinion doesnt matter right know but, I mean come on! Kilala has worked on this forum so hard! Do we really want to just smash it to peices? I know ive used some of the: "zomg, i <3 dat idea!" But im going to make my sentence's longer! And so they make sence! But that's not the point ladies and gentlemen! We should listen to dear Unknown Enity, we should at least let everone have a chance to speak! Do we really want to push other's aside because some of you think their idea's are bad (Like mine)? Do we really want to be complete jerk's? Let everyone have a chance!!!
Look at the good's and bad's. Like on my application for this great club: No idea to die! Come on people! Just please... ive everyone a chance... (Oh my god... Saying the same damn thing over and over again XD) But Unkown ive been in 3 forum's (Joined one and quit) the one i quit was because... I forgot about it. Sometime's you just forget.

Well that's it... Just a stupid speech XD...

Don't kill me
*hide's with Unknown*

[Kilala]

Kilala, out of curiosity, what would you like to do? If you don't feel comfortable replying, that's okay, it just feels like you're being bounced around in every direction like in a pinball machine. >_>

Hmm... if I could have my way I'd have a forum on this board. That way we could have a clear layout, polls, and it's all very familiar. Not only that, but we keep it in the place where we all love.

A poll could be an excellent idea. I'm all up for that - just where shall we set it up? But before we can even do that - we need to know if having on forum on TFF would even be possible. The last thing we want to do is irritate the admins x.o

Meier - I will PM my bio to you now ^^. I have it all ready to go.

Sheena - It's great news about UserGroups being fixed. And also good to hear that Fuzz may fix the character limit. This certainly opens things up.

Entity - *HUGGLES* We all love you <333 And you make more fantastic points. I too want to keep it here.

[Victoria]

Outdoor, sorry! I forgot we put you in trial mode. -_-;
Ignore the warning PM >_>; I deleted the warning.

And as of last night, Fuzz increased the character limit. And he says if we ever need the forum, he can add it, but I guess I have to bring it up with Lococolt also.

[Kilala]

That's excellent news Sheena! Shall we wait to see if we get Loco's approval too before we start a poll on which method we should use?

Excuse short post... will extend it! <3

::Edit::

Past Issues:

Vivi97’s application – I regret to say that this application is not acceptable and so has to be rejected. If in a month you are still active and truly want to contribute please feel free to reapply and we will consider you.

Rocky Regarding Shinra Forums – In all honesty I never knew that this place existed. It’s hidden is it not? And as stated it ‘dyed’ so to speak, so the TFF Council gives new life and will to those who want to contribute to TFF. It’s also more public and not like something out of a Spy movie. I’m sorry you don’t see the point of this thread, but we can’t win them all <3 Thank you for taking the time to express your opinion *Hugs*

Council Size – I never expected the Council to be such a success. Nor did I ever expect to have so many applications. But the fact of the matter is we are growing to big and way too fast. Applications will picked through more thoroughly and member contribution shall be monitored. New members are ALWAYS welcome. We just need serious/active applications/members. There won’t ever be a limit to members.

MoTM – I could see you were discussing this… And I want to as well but I have too many things going on already in this post. WE REALLY NEED A PLACE TO LAY OUT TOPICS TO BE CLEAR O_O XD Eh hem

Application – A new condition will now be added to the application. You may not apply from now on unless you have a minimum of 200 posts. It is important that you have been on this forum for a while so you actually know it and can actually contribute useful material.

[Lavos]

Wow... a lot has happened in a few days. Glad vacat was cut short.

I am glad we are finally making progress. I was beginning to think (no offence!) we were going nowhere. I have registered on Kalila's site, after reading over that. I will be sending in my adopt bio in a few minutes.

All in all, the new site is a good idea. It may be away from TFF, but that can be a good thing. there we can seriously discuss the smaller things, without being cut off and driven astray by new applications and member returns (sorry about mine by the way). Private groups I am a little shaky about. Wouldn't that cut out a lot of applications? Is that good or bad? there are still a few questions left unanswered about that.

[Rocky]

It's really not my decision, but I think some of the members here need to reconsider what it would mean to have another area of discussion. It's not "up and leave" with TFF. It's branching out and that's a good thing.

I disagree. Going on Website B to discuss how to improve on Website A seems very fickle to me. We're not "branching out" by any means either, just isolating us from the rest of tff, and in turn causing us to become a bunch of elitists. Why not use the user group, keep all the discussion public to all eyes, and have it moderated/invite only on who joins so we can have the members post their stuff and the non-members observe? And how you stated "the bigger the better" in your other post is false. having all of our mediums of communication spread out in such a manner is just taxing to everyone, causing people to micromanage everything. If people are so against the whole user group idea, if I remember correctly a few days back, Sheena and Fuzz were talking online and Fuzz maybe said something along the lines of setting up a subforum on the website, so we can do everything the usergroup can stated above + solve the voting issue. The only thing I dislike is the lack of non-council members can't really see what's going on with it, at least I don't think they can. Maybe if they have access to the forum but can't post or something, that may be a solution. Anyways, I may be getting ahead of myself here as I'm not really sure what all Sheena and Fuzz said, so maybe she can clear things up..?

[Unknown Entity]

Wouldn't that cut out a lot of applications?

I don't see how it would. A lot of the Clubs used to require you to PM the creater of the club asking to join, and telling them why you would like to join. PMs could be used because applications should be private anyway, and then discussed between the club/group leaders.

If its made clear thats how you apply, then... who is to stop someone PMing to join?

Going on Website B to discuss how to improve on Website A seems very fickle to me.

I agree.

[Kilala]

I'm in total agreement that it's unsatisfactory for us to move off of TFF for voting or layout purposes. I believe we're really going to push for the subforum, bu until we get further news we can't progress on this issue.
Mistress Sheena is working on getting some final confirmation if whether we could indeed have a TFF subforum.
I'm rather excited about this solution so fingers crossed!

Regarding applications - I do believe it would be more appropriate to do it via PM's. In fact I shall implement that into the rules as we speak. It's more private and allows it to be more professional.

[Victoria]

Okay. Let's get things a bit clearer than they are now.

1. If we get the Subforum/Group, we are NOT moving away from this thread.
2. "All Usergroups" link in the Groups main page now works. Usergroup character limit has now been increased to 25,000 characters. The old default posts used to have.
3. TFF Council usergroup will not be private. Why would it be? o.O;
4. The subforum will most likely be accessible/read-only to non-council members as far as topics go, but they will probably still be able to vote on the polls as far as who wants what to happen.
5. We don't HAVE to use the outside forum if no one wants us to.
6. Before we can discuss what everyone wants, Kilala (and Fuzz) want me to get clearance from Lococolt as to if we can even have the subforum at all.

If there's anything else I need to clear up, let me know.

[SOLDIER #819]

If you are able to obtain a sub-forum, I would highly recommend that you allow non-members to post in it, just like in here. One reason being that it seems to have gotten slightly harder to become an "official" member of the Council, but our rules seem to allow non-members to chime in with their opinions and ideas regardless. Correct me if I'm wrong, since prior discussions may have crossed my wires a bit. It doesn't hurt to keep it open, and with a proper mod it should be fine.

The other reason is for practicality's sake. I'm fairly positive that changing forum permissions on a user-by-user basis is left entirely up to an admin, meaning you'd have to ask one of them to add/unadd members manually. It'd be a lot like changing names, and I'm not sure it's fair to ask that of them very often. In the meanwhile, new members would have to be queued up before they can post. I doubt it's worth the hassle.

Also, we should really figure out where this forum is going to be placed on the board. Shin-Ra Corporation, when not hidden, is at the bottom of the board index and it really works against it since it's often the last place people check as a result of its position. I would keep it somewhere at the top... but that may just clutter up the index even more. Maybe as a sub-forum in Clubs?

This is all speculation until you actually get permission, but it's a good idea to present the idea as something manageable.

[Victoria]

As far as the adoption bios go, when Meier used mine as an example and told you guys to use it as a base, he meant it. Please use third person when filling out the bio, thanks.

As a quote,

I think it should be wrote in third person

I suppose it's not that big of a deal, as Meier can edit the first to third person in the bios, but let's just save him the trouble, eh?

Yes, I do agree with the subforum also. If we get it, it should be open to the public either way.

[Kilala]

I also agree with the subforum and how is should be open to the public. And just as SOLDIER rightly stated with the right mod it shouldn't be a problem.

As for position maybe the most appropriate would be a subforum in the clubs? Or if to be greedy near the 'Suggestions' forum as technically what we do is make and discuss suggestions to help improve the forum and/or activity.<--- but this may be asking too much and rightly so.
As the thread is already in clubs I would imagine it would be a subforum in clubs. If we are lucky enough to get full approval <3.

And on a note about it getting harder for people to join - it's not really. We just want acceptable applications with people with experience. We're not all fun and games and really want to make a difference. Sorry it appears harsh.. but it's also hard when crammed into one area. People easily miss something, or a dropped topic is brought back into full flame... So I please apolagise for any inconveniences in this current moment of time. Thank you <3



I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Mistress Sheena. She has put in a tremendous amount of effort into this council and has kept it going and alive while I was gone. Never in my wilds dreams did I imagine it to be so popular - and as a result it's only natural to want to step it up a gear. By getting a new place for discussions that is a part of that. Once everything is more clearly presented it should become easier for we the members.

[Meier Link]

Just an update

I am still working on the adoption thing, it has been a bit slow moving because real life has caught up with me. I want to add that I am still short a few bio's and I am going to set a dead line of Aug. 1st for all to be turned in. I want to have it up and running by next weekend and who ever doesn't have one turned in by then will probably be removed from the list.

I realize that it is a voluntary basis but if you don't have the time to fill out a simple bio responce then that kind of tells me that you will not have the time to look after and adoptee.

Sorry to be blunt with this but it is the truth.