The Seekers of Illumination

[T.G. Oskar]

Welcome to the Seekers of Illumination.

This is a club dedicated to the sharing, development, and propagation of knowledge. As well, the club has as a main point the idea of altruism; of being benevolent towards others, regardless of belief or creed. Yet, we are also a club that promotes RPing in the forum, in one way or another, be it RP or RP Battle.

Our activities include the discussion of a variety of themes. As you may know, there's a place on the forum called Intellectual Discussion. We do not seek to replace or undermine such place. Feel free to participate on any particular discussion you like. In here, however, we seek to discuss themes with a degree of politeness and respect. The themes to discuss will change with time, and may be submit by any member. If the theme discussed has not been posted within the aforementioned forum section, and proves to be popular, we shall seek to share the theme with the general population.

As well, we seek people willing to participate in the Role-Playing section of the forum, grouped within a particular banner. Since the previous incarnations of our club, we have, albeit very slightly, participated under the banner of good, as the Faction of Light. We seek people that desire to participate on Role-Playing threads, or within Role-Play Battles, be them skilled or unskilled.

The requisites to become a member are relatively simple. There's no need to be skilled on discussion or with Role-Playing: those skills can be developed with time. The main requisite to enter is to post an application, explaining in a paragraph why do you consider yourself an altruist. Do you like to help others with their lives? Do you abhor injustice, in one way or another, and seek to resolve such? It does not have to be a long paragraph: about 5 lines should be enough. After that, I shall consider the application and decide if it is valid. One exception to the rule, which will be cause for denial of an application, is to belong to one of the other Factions (either the BoD or the Masters). If so desired, they may seek to participate as guests: however, their participation shall be limited only to discussion issues. Aside from seeking membership or guest status (if belonging to one of the aforementioned factions, or other factions were they to exist), no other TFFer is allowed to post. Notable exceptions are the Faction Leaders and their appointed Ambassadors, in the case of any notice they desire to write off.

The thread seeks to follow the rules of the forum, which are located in this location, linked here. Considering a discussion may cause people to be offended, we shall request and enforce members to behave in a polite manner, and also to accept and respect the opinions of others. Failure to abide by the rules will be considered a reason to expel from membership or remove guest status.

Having said that, please feel at home within the club. Any questions or comments, please feel free to PM me.

[Sinister]

*Bright white swirls appear as a door opens and a cloaked man makes his way into the room.*


"So it's Official? We're officially dead? Hah..."

Officially-officially?

Eh. ><
They're still calling us The Light Club...I mean...they have to drag their festering cimmerian bones into 2008.

Well their white-nittering aside. I am glad that you brought this to my notice, Oskar. I did not see this.

I'm sure other club members will gather sooner. This club is reborn yet again like a Phoenix, like a Christ. It warms my heart to see it reshape itself.

Considering the rebirth and all, we should begin preperations for a club RP in celebration... Ooh...and possibly work up details on...ranks aiee...so much to do.

We'll follow your lead, Oskar. 'Tis only you who could do the job. We'll all work on our levels of activity. I suppose the only thing left to do is wait for the other members.

As for Govinda...well...bit of unpleasant news, sir. She is indisposed. A cursory look at the bottom of the GC forum will only worsen this story so please refrain.

But she witnessed the manslaughter of a little girl by a red Ford. She is a little more than distraught and our best prayers, wishes and thoughts should go to her. She has a bit of a heavy burden on her sleep nowadays. But I have heard she intends to return at some future date. So patience and prayers.

-Sin

[Furore]

* Chaos rips reality and another enters, a shell of a man tormented by irrational thoughts and a lack of knowledge of the limits of everything he struggles to comprehend*

HAHAHAHAHAHA. That's the first thing I have to say, concerning of course the 'death' of this club. As a person who sees himself as just one of many manifestations of an all powerful force of chaos, I don't die too easy. Or do I? It really depends on one's definition of death now, doesn't it. Needless to say as long as I have an internet connection and the desire to stay online, one which doesn't really seem to be dwindling, I'll be active. I'm more than happy with the flexibility of this club...

I'll post my application thing as well, just in case:

Why do I consider myself an altruist? Well that's simple. Though I may not always go about things the right way I almost live for others. At times I HAVE lived for others, especially during periods of disillusionment. I'm known as a supporter of vigilantism where it doesn't have any commercial or other sleazy purpose behind it, and have been known to willingly help most people who merely ask. Flat tire? I'll help. Someone trying to mug you? I'll help you out. It has almost killed me a few times, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.

As for Govinda, I too was wondering about her. And more than a little worried as Sinister well knows from MSN...
I hope she comes through as well as possible. And Govinda if you read this, know you can ask me for anything I'm capable of giving. I'm sorry you had to see what you saw...

Finally, if there's an RP, I'll try to haul my weight, but I think I'm mainly here for the discussion. Keep it interesting.

[T.G. Oskar]

Good to know I have support. I just didn't wanted to feel like I bothered by constant reminders.

Sinis, despite that warning of not seeing the post and everything, I felt more than inclined to see it. I thus assume it is better that Miss Govinda be better kept alone and unbothered, until proper time comes in which she may seek an answer.

Pity, for I assumed she was one person with a strong mind, to be shocked in that way... Heck, I still stand to that position. She'll hopefully recover, though I assume that if she returns, she will be razor-sharp honed to any discussion.

Closest thing I ever saw was looking at my mother's friend trying to take her life away...about a year of that, and that very same person is living a very productive life.

Uhhh...I think that little thing of worrying about others' tragedies is overtaking my official position. Let's talk about something else, shall we?

Ranks, ranks...I have had something in consideration, but it must be parting from a very distinct view. Ranks for warriors, for debaters, and for both should be underway, but I think that ranking is still too early a thing to speak of at the moment. But...perhaps on the line of holy warriors, mages (evoking their ancient definition of "wise men", as emerging from the Magi), and...priests? Philosophers? Poets? (I like that last one: if you see the manga of Chevalier D'Eon, you'll see what I mean), each corresponding to the type of contribution. Something that stays far from stereotype is a good idea (with the sole exception of Paladins...I have a personal taste for the class)

That shall be a theme to discuss further on.

Role-Play...yeah, I assume that, with the rebirth of the club, there should be a refreshing of the RP thread we once had. Perhaps make a very small retcon, holding the idea of traveling to a plane of Illumination as planned, but parting from a different perspective.

To sum this all up, as always, opinions, ideas, or suggestions are always welcome (yet spam and flaming are not ) I would also give the...how to say, honor (?) of initiating the first discussion to be held to whomever wishes to. Mainly, for two reasons. One is because I want you people to cooperate. The second? Laaaaaziness.

I shall be parting for the moment, although there is something I wish to discuss...privately. I shall send a PM in order to discuss that private matter.

*blinks out of the thread as a beam of light dissolves the body into atomic matter*

VOICE FROM THE BEYOND: I like that last idea, of RP-popping into here.

[Aerif]

Well, I joined via PM recently. Or not so recently, I recall it being at least a fortnight ago.

Of course, there wasn't a discussion going on so I kept my mouth firmly shut and neglected sharing my knowledge *cough*.

I don't really have anything additional to add, I also can't remember what convinced me to make a post... Or actually the lack of a complete post, I guess it was to inform you that I joined.

*Sigh* If short-term memory loss was an appropiate subject to talk about then I'd suggest discussing that, however it's not, and I'm sure there's much more valid things to be said and done.

[Violet]

I'd like to join this club, because I am not one for violence, so BoD is out of the question. I've always tried my best to be kind to people and be a shoulder for them to lean on. I was raised as a Christian, so I believe that there's a God and heaven/hell. I'm a pretty good person at heart .. I've never been the one to hurt someone, but the one to be hurt by others. I respect those who are honest, fair, and kind individuals.

I can RP as well and I may participate if it gets going.

[Sinister]

Let it be known that I far respect Annikit and that she has proved her powers as a creative and kind person. Celtic can vouche for the same. A fine addition to any SOI club. What say you?

-Sin

[Furore]

Let it be known that I far respect Annikit and that she has proved her powers as a creative and kind person. Celtic can vouche for the same. A fine addition to any SOI club. What say you?

-Sin

I can and do. She's also very capable of higher order thinking and is great at role play as well as most anything creative. For whatever these little snippets are worth, she has my vote.

[Dimi]

Mind if I join?

The reason why I want to join this club is because what makes me an altruist is I tend to put others and there issues or needs before I put myself and my desires. I expect nothing in return but only the fact that I've helped them achieve something they wanted to.

Also, friendships are something I highly value. Loyalty, trust, and respect are the three key things that I believe is what makes good friendships. If someone that I talk to is having a problem or needs someone to talk to then I'm there to listen and I'm there to try and help.

I also believe that having an open mindset on life itself and what it has to offer is something that I truly appreciate. You live life once and I believe that being able to learn important things such as by investing through friendships and going through new experiences is really beneficial in the long run.

[Furore]

(As with Ann, I know Fishie is of sound character. He also has my support. )

*Toys with a vision of several possibilities in his mind*

How's this for a discussion topic?
Ok, there are many ways to reach a better end in a given situation, BUT what are the advantages and disadvantages in your eyes of doing the following:

- Using whatever means you deem necessary to achieve the best end you could hope for.
- Taking the noblest path, even at the risk of the end not being as good as could be hoped.

An example would be for the first one, a vigilante could beat the stuffing out of several men caught getting violent with a girl to save her.
An example for the second would be a man who puts himself between the men and the girl without fighting back in the hopes that him sacrificing himself could save the girl from the men and also possibly make the men see things in a new light, bearing in mind that many things could go wrong and the girl could still be beaten or killed if the men are set in their way.

Personally I see the man in the second example as the better one, but I would always do as the man in the first example. I see the ends as justifying the means, and hope that my actions will provide enough of a negative consequences to persuade those I face that it isn't worth it. Not as reliable as making them see things in another light, yet still effective enough.

Your thoughts?

[Sinister]

Excellent, Bro! If we are to have a group at all, I'd be glad for Bro to be a part of it. He is by far my favorite member. An excellent person. What do you think, Oskar?

@Celtic

I see the third possibility in your scenario. The man grabbing the girl and running. Doing his best to escape them before being forced into either of your other scenarios. That would be me.

As for your question, I believe it was displayed:

Ok, there are many ways to reach a better end in a given situation, BUT what are the advantages and disadvantages in your eyes of doing the following:

- Using whatever means you deem necessary to achieve the best end you could hope for.
- Taking the noblest path, even at the risk of the end not being as good as could be hoped.



I'll take it one at a time...

- Using whatever means you deem necessary to achieve the best end you could hope for.

The problem here is that quite often it involves the deadly scheme or trap or plotting. All of which are signs that no good can come of it. Plus all of it is wholly dependant on the person using this ethos. If that person be an evil man than it is no more good than he is. If it is a good man, than disregarding his morals may make him an evil man, though that be just a possibility. "Many a man may make more chaos with open arms than a closed fist." "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" ad nauseum

As for advantage it may get the job done...if that is all important.

In my opinion this most dangerous of roads should be shunned if possible. If not, then there is "little let us do"

- Taking the noblest path, even at the risk of the end not being as good as could be hoped.

The noblest path is always the preferred path. The greatest quandary associated with this path is merely recognizing it. So how do you recognize it? It should be the most obvious and hopefully the most instinctual. Even a villain and an anti-hero know the right path though they choose another. A thief knows stealing is wrong. A murderer knows murder is wrong. If they do not know it is wrong than there is no wrong path. How can there be? But that brings us into the realm of priori, which I don't know if everyone is prepared to discuss.

The noblest way cannot be written down into law. Mankind has proven that irrevocably. Even the old Taoist sages told the emperors not to indulge in written laws. Once you write a law down, it can be wormed out of.

That's all I have to share for now.

-Sin

[T.G. Oskar]

*pops into thread*

Hmm, more activity. It seems we hit the sweet spot.

Anyways, I've made a screening of Anni and Fishie's posting (I do that as a habit, or why do the forum has a posts made by member section if you aren't going to use it?) Considering both are smart, funny, original, and just about anything that makes people awesome, I give my two thumbs and my two big toes on their approval. Celtic and Sinis have more than approved your application, so do I.

(BTW, love the comic Anni. Keep working on it, very well drawn, and work on the coloring. Done a comic about the factions already? I'd like to see that world's perspective on factions. Also, Fishie, you remind me of the reason I actually got over here: trivias!!! I have to return to active trivia duty, or I'll be getting dusty all of a sudden)

Ahh, discussions. I can't get enough of 'em.

The means by which a person reaches an end speak a lot of themselves. Not always will a person choose the path deemed the right one by society/religion/parents/friends/etc. But, deep down, one's own way of seeing the world shapes the options you choose. The examples given by Celtic refer to a person that, in the case of women, have a sense of responsibility upon them, and even a sense of duty to protect them, as both ends imply saving and/or protecting the girl. It also speaks of romanticism. There are many other ends which can be deemed the "best" ends by a person, in an arbitrary way. Mauling the guys to earn points with the girl, for example.

Personally, I often tend to use the most passive means of achieving an end, very rarely taking active actions upon the matter. Using the aforementioned example, I'd rather cool things down with the guys and use diplomacy to leave the lady alone, without resorting to combat. Perhaps it'll end having to resort to violence, or serving as a meat shield, but I can't say I didn't try reasoning with them. Still, just being mean with the lady is rude in my book, so I may just resort to more "active" ways of gaining their attention (essentially shouting on the guys to stop what they're doing, and then realize I can try to speak the girl out of the situation)

Pretty complex, yeah, but I don't just look things the simple way. Quirk of mine.

Essentially, looking for the best means almost never happens when you need to react quickly, since you need to have the mindset to reflexively do it. If you are given time to think about it, then analyzing the situation allows to choose the best way to do it. The ends never justify the means, for it does not lead to a change in behavior, but to the perpetuation of the status quo: meaning, if you hit someone, that someone will consider that his way of thinking is the right one because he was expecting someone to try and act the hero, but will be dissuaded to achieve his end. Doing it in a way that someone does not expect to react to can cause a change in opinion, but that's something that takes more time than anything.

But when you have no time to react, the means you'll follow are defined by the mindset you follow, so you'll act rough if you like roughness and you'll act as a meat shield if you like sacrificing for your beliefs. Or you'll act smart if you are a smart-aleck, and so on.

In a nutshell: ends don't justify the means, the best way is to think about it and look the best mean to get the best end, but when you have no time, just do as you always do. Won't justify the means, but you aren't going to have time to think about it, so might as well do it if you can.

[Dimi]

Originally posted by T.G. Oskar
Also, Fishie, you remind me of the reason I actually got over here: trivias!!! I have to return to active trivia duty, or I'll be getting dusty all of a sudden.

haha, I should post on trivia's more too. I usually post in those when there is nothing to post around in the forums.

Originally posted by Celtic_Silver
An example would be for the first one, a vigilante could beat the stuffing out of several men caught getting violent with a girl to save her.
An example for the second would be a man who puts himself between the men and the girl without fighting back in the hopes that him sacrificing himself could save the girl from the men and also possibly make the men see things in a new light, bearing in mind that many things could go wrong and the girl could still be beaten or killed if the men are set in their way.

Personally I see the man in the second example as the better one, but I would always do as the man in the first example. I see the ends as justifying the means, and hope that my actions will provide enough of a negative consequences to persuade those I face that it isn't worth it. Not as reliable as making them see things in another light, yet still effective enough.

I would have to agree with Celtic on this one. The second scenario you provide is definitely the better way to go. However, the first one seems more better and would seem more successful then the second one. Because with option two, anything can happen. You can try to talk it out or hoping that they do realize its wrong.

Anything is possible in that situation and I would rather protect the girl and save her then risk her well-being by mediating the situation but it would probably have to resort to protecting her. But then here's Sinister's scenario that he's added in as well...

Originally posted by Sinister
I see the third possibility in your scenario. The man grabbing the girl and running. Doing his best to escape them before being forced into either of your other scenarios. That would be me.

Now out of the three, I would definitely agree with Sinister. Violence is not the answer but talking to them or trying to convince them somehow isn't the way to go either. I believe that with Sinister's scenrio, it does prevent you from having to choose the two that Celtic has displayed. The worst thing about this one though is what if they have a gun? If they do then well...you're screwed. Then number 2 would be the best. But of the three, I agree with Sinister's the most.

As for Celtic's questions...

Using whatever means you deem necessary to achieve the best end you could hope for.

This is the most dangerous road to take like Sinister had mentioned earlier. Basically, you're willing to do anything and possibly everything to achieve the best of what you want. That bad part about this is it can lead to many outcomes. If you're willing to do whatever it takes to achieve something, it can lead you into unwanted situations, perhaps even uneventful consequences. I do believe though that it depends on the person themselves and their determination on how bad they want it.


Taking the noblest path, even at the risk of the end not being as good as could be hoped.

This is the best road to take. Its obvious and the safest way to take compared to the first one. Although you have a less chance of getting what you had hoped for of what you're trying to achieve, I believe that good deeds and following the right way is rewarded later on. I'm not one to say to play it safe because I'm not like that but to rather not scheme or plot or manipulate into getting what you want.

[Sinister]

Oskar, should we continue our old RP? Should we issue a challenge to the BoD? We await your orders. Hmm... And if you've reached any decision of the PM you sent me, let me know. You know if you need any help, I'm here.

Also, I'd like to initiate a challenge to our members. Each of us to pick up a religion/philosophy and write a short essay about it, letting all the members know about the real peoples and their thoughts. That way we'll increase our knowledge of philosophies, thereby earning our club title.

^^

-Sinny

[Kaitou]

It certainly has been awhile. It's good to see that the club is alive and well. Quite a lot has happened it seems. I've got to break this habit of making spontaneous, brief appearances, followed by long periods of inactivity.

My discussion skills are still a bit rusty and limited, so I won't contribute to the current discussion. Just wanted to let everyone know I'm alive and well and that I plan to stay active.

Ciao.

[T.G. Oskar]

*pops into thread*

First of all...good grief, Kaitou has returned from wherever he was hiding!!! Hopefully expecting this visit is longer than most of your visits.

Second...about the RP, I assume that making a new one would be better than continuing with the previous one, as there are more new people than before, and since it would be a bit better to make a newer introduction to the RP in order to expand the number of choices for the members. The end result of the first adventure, however, will be the same as with the old RP (meaning, instead of beginning in the castle, we may begin in a different way, but the same idea of finding that plane is the first of the goals)

As for combat with the aforementioned group, I would suggest (as always) to fine-tune our own skills before issuing a formal challenge. I must admit, we've been a bit lax on the area of RPBing, and issuing a challenge now would be reckless and lacking thought. Still, that is one of the eventual possibilities.

Haven't made a specific decision upon the small request done via PM. I would like to expand that discussion via PM to all available members, to make a better choice.

Finally, that's quite a tough challenge. First of all, sounds like a chore (more homework to some, and a bit of un-rusting the brain for others), and the terms of the essay should be well-defined (how short is short? Own words or using fact?). Having said that, I do think it is a wonderful idea to follow, especially since it serves as a point of reference (especially if it has verifiable facts) for members to understand the points of view of others. It may also serve to create understanding, to dispel rumors and clear doubts. I would not like to determine a time limit for the essays (to make it less of a chore), featuring them when ready enough to post.

Any other decisions will probably be better left off tomorrow (it's already morning in my house, and I was with a bit of headache), presumably telling everyone via PM the small proposal I'm making.

Now, off to see how I can get the song "Carol of the Bells", the Home Alone version. Had to make a bit of rummaging via Wikipedia to find out one of the movie songs I really like. I must say, I'm a big fan of background music in games and movies, and even in soap operas (but those compositions are even harder to get, especially for Latin American soap operas)

[Dimi]

Originally posted by Sinister
Also, I'd like to initiate a challenge to our members. Each of us to pick up a religion/philosophy and write a short essay about it, letting all the members know about the real peoples and their thoughts. That way we'll increase our knowledge of philosophies, thereby earning our club title.

I find this interesting. I know people believe in different things and a different perspective on stuff. But if we're gonna do this, then I'm in. Just let me know when do you want us to start on it, Oskar. I'm also looking forward to the RP. I'm participating in Ann's RP as well so the more RP's I'm get in, the better experience I get at it.

[Sinister]

I agree with you about challenging the "aforementioned". We're not exactly up to par yet, but I think that we have just as good a chance as anyone. We have a roster of some excellent writers and if we start work right away with RPB and RPing then it could very possibly be a future outcome.

As for my challenge, it's not something that we have to commit to, more voluntary-like. It's merely a distracting enlightenment.

As far as length, I should think that would be totally up to the person. They can provide anything from a half a paragraph to a half a page, all depending on their zeal.

As far as when...I would prefer that we stagger them. That way we wouldn't have to read like seven reports in a single sitting and also so we have something to look forward to.

But that's my idea.

-Sin

[Furore]

I agree with you about challenging the "aforementioned". We're not exactly up to par yet, but I think that we have just as good a chance as anyone. We have a roster of some excellent writers and if we start work right away with RPB and RPing then it could very possibly be a future outcome.

As for my challenge, it's not something that we have to commit to, more voluntary-like. It's merely a distracting enlightenment.

As far as length, I should think that would be totally up to the person. They can provide anything from a half a paragraph to a half a page, all depending on their zeal.

As far as when...I would prefer that we stagger them. That way we wouldn't have to read like seven reports in a single sitting and also so we have something to look forward to.

But that's my idea.

-Sin

Yeah make this one voluntary. I love looking up things like this, but not experiencing what they do fully, I'd feel anything I wrote up on it would be disrespectful.

Just that they have ideas and I have mine, and the slightest misunderstanding on my behalf could piss off anyone from whichever religion I'd be making the report on. I'd prefer to do the research and try to just gain a fuller understanding myself, yet not type anything out due to possible offense.
Later.

[T.G. Oskar]

How about if, more than voluntary, it becomes a pro-con type of essay? Discussion cannot flow and grow if not challenged, even though at times those differences actually stall the growth of knowledge (when they become all-inclusive, exclusive to change theories). Discussing about a religion, or why the religion's points (and contradictions), in a degree of respect and understanding, may actually help to clear some questions, and gain a greater degree of respect upon the beliefs of others. That means, if you consider what you speak of, Celtic, as offensive, it is because you fear to expose your opinion. There is no opinion so offensive or vulgar. There is conflict of point of view, and at times, having your point of view challenged causes a bit of conflict. It is when you overcome that initial disgust, and you engage in discussion, when you gain another degree of respect for that person.

Still, if you consider that the best way to respect your fellows is to refrain from redacting the essay, then by all means I'll accept that. That is another choice that's equally valuable: placing camaraderie over offenses. Still, I consider that if someone just wants to have an objective essay, a subjective essay either going pro or con, or even a semi-objective essay, then feel free to do so. Bashing and attacking people, however, is utterly forbidden.

An admirable job you seek to do, Celtic. Be if for bashing (hopefully not) or for understanding, to be capable of reinforcing your statement with opinion, is admirable. That means I gotta be also doing my research...

One final point, and something I want to bring to hand:
With this new vision of the club, I want to prevent as much as I can the events that led to the division of the first and original club (not the SoI, but the very very first one) Please, this is something I ask of heart: do not let your beliefs (either side or the other) to cause a dividing conflict that ends in the secession of the club. I would not like to have another "Bringers of Light" incident. If, as Celtic did, you wish to refrain from an activity for you consider it may be a bit offensive, then by all means do so. I believe we all want a united club, a united faction, not two divided brothers, right?

[Furore]

That means, if you consider what you speak of, Celtic, as offensive, it is because you fear to expose your opinion. There is no opinion so offensive or vulgar. There is conflict of point of view, and at times, having your point of view challenged causes a bit of conflict. It is when you overcome that initial disgust, and you engage in discussion, when you gain another degree of respect for that person.

Ah, it's just I have a habit of being blunt and sometimes misinterpreting things. I don't mean to, it just happens. The main thing is that anyone can read what I write here as it's completely public. One mistake could mean grave offense to someone. Private discussion? I'm all for that, but not everyone will be able to discern my intentions well enough as it is.

An admirable job you seek to do, Celtic. Be if for bashing (hopefully not) or for understanding, to be capable of reinforcing your statement with opinion, is admirable. That means I gotta be also doing my research...

One final point, and something I want to bring to hand:
With this new vision of the club, I want to prevent as much as I can the events that led to the division of the first and original club (not the SoI, but the very very first one) Please, this is something I ask of heart: do not let your beliefs (either side or the other) to cause a dividing conflict that ends in the secession of the club. I would not like to have another "Bringers of Light" incident. If, as Celtic did, you wish to refrain from an activity for you consider it may be a bit offensive, then by all means do so. I believe we all want a united club, a united faction, not two divided brothers, right?

Firstly, thanks for the first paragraph, I try.
And as for the second, that's why I like this club I believe. The freedoms given. You guys will probably all be seen as almost family by myself soon enough, and all families can show a few dysfunctions. Who knows, any conflict could serve to make us all stronger as a group.

United we stand my friends.

[Sinister]

I suppose I could go first, if need be, or if you wish to, Oskar.

Hmm...Religion or Philosophy? Obscure or...Established?

So many fascinating possibilities. A veritable realm of esoterica and detailed thought...

The easiest would be a mainstream religion...but pretty much everyone here knows those and if I go too esoteric and obscure, I risk envolving myself in cults...

Philosophies...Hrm... I could rock and roll this club with Transcendental Idealism...I've already ponied up with Solipsism in that one thread with Jintatsu... He was sold on it. Zen might be cool, but everyone might've heard of it already...><

I think I go on about Taoism so much that everyone is tired of hearing about it. I could go on Jainism or Sihkism. Jainism is a favorite I love the Svetambara and their Sky-clad Ahimsa. Very Altruistic to a fault...unto death, matter of fact. Not many of them left around, sadly...

I need to get it together...*sigh* So much to do...

It'll be a relief to write an essay that has nothing to do with plants ><,

-Sin

[T.G. Oskar]

*pops into thread*

Well, I haven't had a nice weekend as I thought I would have. I thought I would rest up a bit and take advantage of cable wireless modem, but I had a bit of a rough-in with Grandma. She almost gets Mum into trouble because she insists in living alone and far from home.

Fortunately, that's relatively solved. Thus, on to what's on schedule.

@Sinis: be my guest. You can make the first essay. It can give an example of how the essay should be constructed, how much of trust-able sources you should use, and the pro's and con's.

@Celtic: while it is natural that even families can have their differences, some differences grow into large rifts. And we are just growing into a family, or hopefully we are. Thing is, we've got a precedent we need to fix, circumvent, or prevent. Perhaps one person, by allowing too much freedoms, may feel uncomfortable, even alluded. So far, we are restricted by terms of mutual respect, which I believe is a way to prevent troubles. I do expect everyone in here to respect that, but eventually someone will have troubles with another, and neither will show respect for the other. I do wish that we can get over that nasty precedent that caused the disbanding of the former group, and that we may remain together.

But, after all, it is good to know that you eventually may consider us as a family. Anything we may do to help is more than encouraged. Anyone that may need help is encouraged to do so. That's what families are for, right? Regardless of the distance.

[Sinister]

Seeing I’m to be the first, I’ve decided to default on Taoism. I’ve decided to break up Taoism into “pillars” or fundamental concepts by which every Taoist lives and functions. I’m keeping it cut and dry since you have to walk before you can fly on dragon-back. So no theory is allowed and no philosophical bull. Just the religious views.

First off, Taoism is pronounced(Dow ism) and is unique in that it can be a Religion(Dàojiāo 道教) or just a Philosophy(Dàojiā 道家). It’s reliant on what your prediliction is. What you believe and what you can’t. There are three marked religious tomes of Taoism.

The primary text is the Tao Te Ching by the mysterious sage named Lao Tzu. This dates as the oldest of all of them, all the way back to 6th century BCE or BC if you prefer. The name translates simply as “Way, Virtue, Classic”.
Keep in mind that it was by no means Lao Tzu’s plan to write all of this down, even though what he did write down was cryptic and short. He was forced by a soldier to pen his teachings. Beware! Those who buy a copy of the Tao Te Ching will not understand it the majority of it unless you are initiated. It’s writted the way it’s written because Taoism cannot be summed up well, if at all.(which is not good news for me) Each passage is actually a sermon in-of-itself. So unless you already know the key terms, it will be of little use to you. Next are the Zhuangzi(named for it‘s author) and Daozang(or Tao Treasury).


So I suppose I should explain the Key Terms.

Tao (literally, Way) Is an amalgamation of several concepts. So many in fact, that it is impossible to tell you what the Tao isn’t. Tao means way and can mean nature, but it’s much more than that. You can’t say Tao is the universe because you exclude what isn’t the universe. You can’t say Tao is everything…because you exclude everything that everything isn‘t. Confusing? Nah. Not that bad.

Yin and Yang Tao can be described by two separate forces. Yin and Yang(Heaven and Earth). And they are quite literally that. Or more specifically, Matter and Energy. These are the forces that this particular existence operates. They intermingle and mix like clouds. Supposedly their intercourse can be predicted to some point. I personally find that difficult to believe, aside from the obvious.

Chi, Jian and Bugan wei tianxia Xian(or the three jewels of the Tao) These are the basic virues of Taoism. Compassion, Frugality and Humility. It is through these that people are able to begin cultivation of the Tao.

Te Inner strength and virtue is the degree to which you possess the above characteristics and how they are displayed in you.

Wu Wei Is a major tenet of Taoism that also helps in Cultivations. Wu Wei can be translated as “Without Action”. But that is not what it means. Lost in translation, poor term. It means to act without contemplation. Now you may remember your mother penalizing you for acting without thinking. Well guess what? It’s a virtue. But here’s the hang nail… You act without contemplating or scheming, but, unless you want to murder your cultivation of the Tao you act with Te. In otherwords they are saying that Virtue should be second nature to you now… Or wait…no…It should be your nature. You shouldn’t even have to think about it. You should just have to act.

Pu Is the uncarved block. The potential. The greatest power of all. The more you hone your strengths and your knowledge the more you detract from your potential. The less potential you have the weaker you will always be. The more limited your cultivation of the Tao will be. The more limited you will end up being. Eventually if you rack up enough limitations…you’ll just fade away into nothing…

Finally I’ll speak about the purpose of the religion. Immortality. There I said it. That is the goal. Few, if any, people reach it. Now they didn’t mean immortality as in longevity. Good Tao no. The way the Taoists look at it. People have two lives. One of Yang(matter) and one of Heaven(energy). In order to increase your material lifespan you can take vitamins, work out, eat healthy and so on. In order to increase your Yin lifespan you can cultivate the Tao.

That’s my essay. I only had to refer to my Tao Te Ching once. Yay!


Discuss!

[Furore]

@Celtic: while it is natural that even families can have their differences, some differences grow into large rifts. And we are just growing into a family, or hopefully we are. Thing is, we've got a precedent we need to fix, circumvent, or prevent. Perhaps one person, by allowing too much freedoms, may feel uncomfortable, even alluded. So far, we are restricted by terms of mutual respect, which I believe is a way to prevent troubles. I do expect everyone in here to respect that, but eventually someone will have troubles with another, and neither will show respect for the other. I do wish that we can get over that nasty precedent that caused the disbanding of the former group, and that we may remain together.

But, after all, it is good to know that you eventually may consider us as a family. Anything we may do to help is more than encouraged. Anyone that may need help is encouraged to do so. That's what families are for, right? Regardless of the distance.

What about an unspoken rule then maybe? Even if someone does dislike someone in the club for whatever reason they still show respect. We all will have different views on opinions on some subject or another, but that's what gives us something to discuss. When I mentioned 'freedoms' in my last post I was strictly speaking about the new way the club works. Everyone's welcome so long as they can explain why they see themselves as altruistic.

Differences do have the potential to create huge rifts, but from what I've seen we're all mature enough to respect each other.

@ Sinny. Nice post/essay on Taoism.
I must admit to not knowing much more than a few paragraphs from some text books so it was interesting to see some key terms I'd never come across before, mostly Pu. It warrants some further reading on my half.

[Sinister]

Now that I've hopefully sparked a little enlightenment, I feel the need to call to mobilize. To arms. RPB, training the few good rpers we have here to be competing material. Supposing that whoever loses this battle between the BoD and The Masters will need someone to step up and replace them. It's time for all serious RPers to step up and start training!

I'm fully commited. Anyone want to RPB? Training wise? Or even start plans on our next RP. Remember: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke(or that one scientist from the movie "Street Fighter")

-Sin

[T.G. Oskar]

Far as I know, the main instigator for the dissolution of the groups (the BoD, of course), by means of its highest command, has accepted that the war was so successful that there may be no need to dissolve any group in here. If that's true and honored (dunno about the true part, but I can trust they'll honor such agreement if it ends true), then we aren't pressed on to take arms. Yet, indeed, we need to begin training if we are to make a stand eventually.

I also need the training. I feel not only rusty, but unprepared. Tried to figure out what's wrong with my writing style, but without success. So, I'll be more than willing to accept the proposal, although we should first determine which characters to use (the official SoI characters are fine by me, but I'd need a drastic revision and improvement of the official character). If you want, please make a PM before making the thread, to discuss the general background of the RPB. I feel that we must hone our RPB skills a bit more than the RP. At least, I feel like it: having only...5 battles? (Kaitou, Anomaly, Taco, Kaitou again, and the failed attempt at the ToA which has prevented me from taking another action as I feel I did my best but ended up doing nothing at all), I feel a bit unprepared. And I feel like I need to define better the goals of my character (it definitely has a base on Paladin, but I often end up with a jack-of-all-trades character that focuses mostly on defense and support than attack) Almost all attempts on making characters in other genres often end up that way. Yet, as much as I desire a boost in magical prowess -- most especially White and Holy Magic -- I also feel that he should have a cinch of Alchemy added in it, perhaps the sudden mixture of chemicals and improvising alchemical and chemistry reactions to support the combat style. And, I've always sought to have a swordmaster with knowledge on dashing, multiple strike, and magic-empowered techniques.

So, I need to define how much of a percentage of skills can be added to follow a general trend, a glimpse of focus, and define an otherwise odd and overpowered set of skills. The moves of a Paladin and the magic of a Priest normally combine well, and the area of Swordmaster can be added with little difficulty, but how do I add the knowledge of Alchemy to the mix?

Perhaps, once I can figure that out (that doesn't mean that I won't accept the challenge, it's more on defining the skills of my character, which can be done via brainstorming), I can accept more general challenges (i.e. out-of-club challenges)

I still need to digest that essay, Sinis. It's pretty much simplified, but requires a bit of time to tie loose ends and understand how each part of the whole works in conjunction. But let me get this straight: by doing without thinking, thinking of nothing...you are supposed to be enlightened. Yet, rational thinking often allows to analyze the proper way to do so. Perhaps, the focus of the Wu Wei is to, at the moment of action, be free of thoughts, to be free of doubts. You act without thinking, for you have already thought of what to do. And that result of your thought is how you live your life. To achieve enlightenment, your path and the Tao should be one, or at least your path must be sustained by the pillars of the Tao (as in, there is no one specific Tao): once that's defined, further thought cripples the potential, the Pu, which is to be avoided.

Perhaps I shouldn't give it that much thought.

[Sinister]

As for RPBing...well, anytime. I'm going to stick with Jafar. He's one of my favorite walk-the-line type characters, which is pretty much me. He's sheet is prolly some where in the old OOC thread. I'll recycle it wordforword, pending any differences that you feel are necessary.

I'll be honest about it. I have a happy talent for composition. I really do. But I've never RPBed in my entire life. There, I said it. I can't imagine it's that different than an RP but I'm willing and ready to learn.


@essay: You've got it pretty much in the fact. Wu Wei serves as a guide when making decisions by saying that anyone in touch with the Tao already knows what to do.

It's like driving a car. Nobody THINKS about driving a car, they just do it. At first it takes commands of bigger actions and decisions...later on you just become the Tao. You act without having to think.

As for Pu, well...I went off the deep end on it. I learned until I could not possibly learn anymore, which supposedly will inhibit me in the end, by detracting from the potential. Which you can heal, by living a quiet life of peace, which I now intend to in my old age.

[T.G. Oskar]

RPB isn't that different from a forum RP thread, except that it's more...how to say, intimate?

Allow me to explain. In an RP, you collaborate with others to advance the story, by composing the action taken by your character and how he executes the action. The more elaborate and vivid the composition is, the more enjoyable it is to read. Each piece of the story becomes a jigsaw puzzle that blends into a whole story, as chapters of a book.

But I assume you know that. It's just for the purpose of placing a brief description to which to refer in case of comparison. Of course, one part of the RP that the RPB lacks is the presence, at times, of a moderating participant, which holds the reigns of the storyline, which determines what can be allowed, and what can be disallowed.

In an RPB, similar rules apply, but with certain differences. When I speak of "intimate", it's because only two people participate, and the entire flow of the small battle flows from the combination of both minds. One may define the boundaries of the story, but at the end, both people have the potential to alter the story as they see fit. The actions are purely the definition of a combat action, which may include, and are not limited to: flashbacks, lapses of thought, speech, and the movement in itself. Each action constitutes a turn, in which the action is responded as it deems fit. You can either take the hit, block/parry/evade or otherwise null the effect of the attack, apply a move to reduce its effects, or even a limited alteration of the move (this one can border on god-modding, and it should be agreed on both parts). The true degree of intimacy is on the discussion of the move. For example, say that I deal an attack with, say, a fireball: a very typical spell. Normally, you either take the blast, or block the fireball with either a physical or magical barrier. Yet, to really add the depth of knowledge and control, you decide that's better if the fireball explodes, yet the pressure wave and the flames swirl around you, as part of an effect of a protective ward placed upon you beforehand, or even as a reflexive action. You may think that such a move is possible (in the realm of one's mind, anything is possible), but the other person may not agree to such. Yet, if you discuss beforehand the effect of your ward, and that you may exert a bit of personal power to alter the effects of a move slightly, and the other person agrees, then the action becomes more fluid: both people agree to allow the move to be altered, and by no means it should be considered god-modding. Only the abuse of said privilege can turn into god-modding, or in the case where the person is simply undefeatable. One simple premise must be always followed: in the realm of RPB, no matter how cool your character is, he's always vulnerable to something. One of the infinite possibilities of moves of your character should be able to at least dent the defenses, and shake the confidence, of the opponent. If the person is truly undefeatable by some specific circumstance, then the battle becomes un-fun, an undesirable end.

One of the things that often works is that the RPBers often communicate via PM, or by instant-messaging programs, to gain feedback on the moves that will be executed, and how the other reacts to it. Communication is essential (one of the things that apparently seems to be a flaw of mine). Writing technique is also key: each person has its own writing style, which can cause conflict upon the other. In essence, the victor of an RPB often has the superior, or the edge, in the writing style. The way one describes the action, and how it affects the opponent and the background, eventually becomes the judgement by which a winner is declared.

And getting into the mood is essential: write while listening to music, think of ways to solve a particular problem every moment you can, and also think that the more glory you hog, the less entertaining the battle is. The battle should be a swing, a dance of actions, in which the other person can be granted a chance to shine, or else, the battle is abandoned, and the victory is sour.

That's mostly it. I think I get here, and I get inspired in writing one-hour long posts just for the heck of it. I tend to exaggerate the length of my posts with flair and long words.

As per Jaffar, well, the degree to which the skills should remain locked or not should be settled upon the discussion. I agree that, to reach the proper potential, your character should be free to undertake its own actions. Thus, it should be capable of executing all of its actions, and perhaps even add a few more. In the RP, since it should give the impression that they were beginning their journey, they had to begin at a lower level. Not in this case, where they should be facing at an equal degree of power, perhaps with a slight handicap if so desired and agreed. I'll explain more via PM, to determine if the idea running up my mind sounds right to you.

[Furore]

I'm in too. I'll make myself a new character I think.
Something special.
Something.... fun to play with.

It's been a while, but not that long. I think my practice match against DragonHeart was probably my best. Coincidentally it was also my first. Regardless, she seemed to bring out the best in my writing.

Cheers.