Obama Healthcare

[loaf]

For someone who was just discharged from the hospital a month ago, part time badly paying job with no insurance? Yea I wish this thing would have happened long ago. I had no insurance, but I had to go to the hospital...why? Cause I would have DIED. If I had this free health care shit, my bills wouldn't be through the roof. Who are you to say getting free health care is not responsible. I'm a broke ass part time working not going to school 20 year old whos parents make him pay rent at their house.

[Locke4God]

Points taken gentlemen, and I appreciate the commentary,

I saw it come up a few times by each of you that you have an idea that the poor aren't covered in America. But of course you do have medicaid, and nobody is refused treatment at a hospital, so you do have coverage. Now is it great? That might be another debate, and I did see the comment about medicaid not covering children. Perhaps a good point that needs looking into.

However let me state that America does in fact have the best healthcare in the world. I'm not sure what country you came from, the person commenting from another country, but as foreign as our system may feel, a person diagnosed of cancer or aids, and several other terminal conditions has a longer life expectancy here, than in any other country in the world. So we do have great healthcare.

If you're against it, as I am, what you also have to consider is that it's never been America's position to "catch up" to other countries. As a couple of you pointed out, we have the largest economy in the world, and so there's nobody to catch up to. My boss from Morroco tried to say that Morroco has National Healthcare, so why shouldn't we, as though America were somehow supposed to follow Morroco's lead. I just love this country and believe it's the best in the world as many immigrants have felt and we got that way on the belief that nobody here gets anything for free, but you can keep everything you earn. The first settlers and all immigrants since have made this country the land that invented the light bulb, the car, flight, space travel and much more, and we did it because we didn't provide social safety nets. Nobody leaves this country for Healthcare. They come here, and they've come here for centuries because they know that America is the land of "opportunity" not guarantees.

Lastly I'll just point out, that only 11-13 Million people out of our population of 300 Million are without healthcare. The figure of 47 million that was floated out includes nearly 20 Million illegal immigrants, another 7 that are temporarily between jobs for 2-3 month periods, and still another 7 million teenagers who willfully choose not to purchase it. So we're talking about a major overhall to satisfy a small minority of people. Granted it is an important issue, but I think things like tort reform, which is not included in any proposed bill, will do a better job of reducing costs to make it more affordable for those people. If I were for this bill as you 3 are, I would ask myself why Obama and the others trying to sell it are not talking about Tort reform. It's highly suspicious that they aren't.

Oh and the Congretional Budget Office in an independant analysis says that costs would rise if this plan were passed, not go down as promissed.

And quite frankly I just don't trust the government to manage this and I'm not willing to take the risk. Obama was off 2 Trillion dollars the wrong direction in his 10 year deficit analysis, he claimed that it was absolutely vital to pass the stimulus act immediately and yet he's only spent 7% of it and even that has shown very little positive effects. In fact again he estimated only 8% unemployment and yet we're near 10%, and overall I think all this government intervention into private industry is very disconcerting. I don't believe what he's saying and he's given plenty of reason to doubt that he either knows what he's talking about and/or is being honest about it.

Why take the risk? Why trust him?

Why not reduce costs through tort reform that will lower insurance costs on doctors so your costs go down, expand medicaid to cover children, and lower taxes on businesses so they can expand coverage and hire more workers who could be covered.

[Alpha]

However let me state that America does in fact have the best healthcare in the world. I'm not sure what country you came from, the person commenting from another country, but as foreign as our system may feel, a person diagnosed of cancer or aids, and several other terminal conditions has a longer life expectancy here, than in any other country in the world. So we do have great healthcare.

Where are those statistics from? Because I thoroughly dispute them. Did you know that a male Bangladeshi has a greater life expectancy than a black male from Harlem, New York? Your so-called "great" healthcare system clearly discriminates against the poor, something which does NOT happen in the vast majority of industrialised nations.

If you're against it, as I am, what you also have to consider is that it's never been America's position to "catch up" to other countries. As a couple of you pointed out, we have the largest economy in the world, and so there's nobody to catch up to.

You have plenty of countries to catch up to in terms of your national priorities to healthcare. Stop pouring money into the military and give basic healthcare to your poorest citizens. New Zealand has only one plane in it's air force. Laugh all you want, but I'd take free healthcare over global military hegemony any day.

My boss from Morroco tried to say that Morroco has National Healthcare, so why shouldn't we, as though America were somehow supposed to follow Morroco's lead. I just love this country and believe it's the best in the world as many immigrants have felt and we got that way on the belief that nobody here gets anything for free, but you can keep everything you earn.

I've always wondered if Americans are aware how much the rest of the world does not like them, and my suspicions are confirmed - they do not know. Now I have no idea if Morocco has socialised healthcare, but if they do, then, as a developing country, they have their priorities straight. Lowering infant mortality, lowering the incidence of HIV/AIDs - all pertinent issues that need to be at the top of any political agenda in any country. Yet American's stand by their Third World health system, and do all they can to prevent Obama from carrying out much needed reforms.

The first settlers and all immigrants since have made this country the land that invented the light bulb, the car, flight, space travel and much more, and we did it because we didn't provide social safety nets. Nobody leaves this country for Healthcare. They come here, and they've come here for centuries because they know that America is the land of "opportunity" not guarantees.

FLIGHT: New Zealanders were (albeit arguably) the first people to build a working plane.

SPACE TRAVEL: Sputnik; the world's first satellite. Russian.

And what the Hell do they have to do with the absence of social safety nets? Oh look, welfare! Well, there goes space travel. Get over your phobia of welfare, America.

Lastly I'll just point out, that only 11-13 Million people out of our population of 300 Million are without healthcare. ... So we're talking about a major overhall to satisfy a small minority of people. Granted it is an important issue, but I think things like tort reform, which is not included in any proposed bill, will do a better job of reducing costs to make it more affordable for those people.

As the world's largest economy, and with such a 'small' number of people without healthcare to cover, it should be no problem.

Oh and the Congretional Budget Office in an independant analysis says that costs would rise if this plan were passed, not go down as promissed.

I don't pretend to know the details of this report, but providing free healthcare has many flow-on benefits to any economy. People are more willing and completely able to get treatment for illnesses (big or small), and then get back to work - providing tax money for the government. Granted, this is a simplification, but if my logic is challenged, I can expand on this.

Why take the risk? Why trust him?

Exactly what is the risk?

Why not reduce costs through tort reform that will lower insurance costs on doctors so your costs go down, expand medicaid to cover children, and lower taxes on businesses so they can expand coverage and hire more workers who could be covered.

That all sounds nice - but so does free healthcare.

[RagnaToad]

However let me state that America does in fact have the best healthcare in the world.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! !!


You crack me up.

Anyway, America is a pretty young country and ironically, the country that is most conservative about change in Western society. They all claim to be the greatest country in the world, arrogantly refusing to see how Europe is doing better in numerous ways. I find it hilarious how 'socialist' is an insult in the US. I love Republicans. Good humour is priceless.

On the healthcare thing: It is sad to see how Americans refuse to see that nothing will change unless they vote for this health care bill. I find it tragic how all those people who are against it (or some of them) claim that it will bring more problems than anything else. I guess the healthcare system in Northern European countries has been failing for decades, right?

Not really.

Everyone is so afraid that the government will take over their medical decisions and decide who can have euthanasia and who can't (DEATH PANEEELS!!!), while they are trying to do what they are suppose to do. Take care of their people.

only 11-13 Million people out of our population of 300 Million are without healthcare.

Ahum...
'only'?
Those people don't have any health insurance whatsoever, and many more have to dig into their savings to pay for surgeries or even small accidents.

I'm sure you wouldn't think it was 'only' 11-13 million people if you know all of them.

That's more people than all Belgians together. (All Belgians who all have health insurance, by the way.)

[Jeordam]

And please here this and take it into account before responding. I do not say anything within this post to insult, belittle, or otherwise diminish someone's point of view, or even the actions of another country. I'm not here to be whatever, but to simply ask questions and speak my mind.

Many have brought up the actions/prioritites of many nations in this world...from those of Europe, Africa, N.America, and even New Zeland. The priorities of the people's from each of these nations is different, and I honestly don't think that any of us are *really* equipped to pass a determination that one or another countries priorities are out of order.

Does the US spend a large amount of money on the military? Yes, we do. Is it worth it? I believe that it is, because it allows other nations of the world to not have to. New Zeland can get away with having 1 plane in the Air Force, because it knows that if some agressive nation invades them, that they have Australia, and ultimately the US, watching their back.

Let's turn our attention to history...its a really good thing that the US had a big military (with ramp-up capability) in World War II. If that wasn't the case, Europe would be split into different german states, and the only Jews left in existance would be those living in the US.

Quality of health care, cost of health care, and tort reform aside, what I think that this debate comes down to is this. Why should I pay for you? One poster to this thread (please forgive me for not remembering your name/exact circumstances) related how his medical bills are high, because of a lack of coverage (again, please forgive me if I got it completely wrong). But my question still stands...why should I be forced to pay it for you?

Someone else related how paying for health care is good for everyone, because when they are better, they can go back to work & start paying income taxes again. How is this guarenteed? There are huge swaths of individuals with no health care because they have no jobs (for whatever reason). We're putting food on their table & keeping a roof over their heads(through welfare/other government aid) and we would be keeping them healthy (if this legislation goes through). What motivation does such an individual have to go back to work?

I have a tough enough time paying for myself as it is. The last thing I need is to be further taxed to pay for someone else.
~Jeordam