Heaven and hell. Your thoughts on them!

[Gillamobster]

That, itself is an Ideal. Same as believing the opposite.
Saying "Prove it exists", is the same as "Prove it doesn't exist".. You can't


Should heaven or hell, existing or not, keep you from doing what is right?

Do you need a reason to do something good?
Yes, without that fear, many would do more horrible things to the world, but is fear a reason to do what is right?

What prevents you from doing murder?


Can you truly trust yourself?
Have you ever questioned your own motives for your actions?

"If you never questioned your actions, ideals, and yourself, how could you ever know what is right or wrong?"




One last thing:

"Being of either light or dark, does not dictate good or evil."

...dude... seriously? Here's something that keeps people from doing bad shit: THE POLICE. Society is constructed in such a way that bad shit gets punished and morality is spoon-fed to us.

And, by the way, it's called burden of proof. If you claim something exists, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove so, not on me to prove it doesn't. So cut the melodramatic emo crap and use some logic:

1. There is no evidence of any sort of afterlife
2. The notion of Heaven/Hell represents a very basic form of moral duality obviously necessary for societies that lacked the sort of enforcement abilities we have today
3. Societies can function without religion

I'm pretty sure in Soviet Russia and the People's Republic of China, people don't wantonly murder each other any more than they do in the good 'ol Christian USA.

[Doc Rocco]

There is no evidence of any sort of afterlife

Of course not, how are we meant to have proof of this? We can't exactly go dig up old Aunty Mabel and ask her now, can we?

Anyway, as a Christian I do believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe in it as my faith dictates so. There have been numerous recounts of near death experiences from atheists as well. But I need no evidence due to my faith.

So there's my little spiel.

[Furore]

...dude... seriously? Here's something that keeps people from doing bad shit: THE POLICE. Society is constructed in such a way that bad shit gets punished and morality is spoon-fed to us.

Ah seriously man, the police aren't powerful enough. They're reactive rather than proactive with how they deal with crime for the better part. They get called after stuff in society happens.

And, by the way, it's called burden of proof. If you claim something exists, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove so, not on me to prove it doesn't. So cut the melodramatic emo crap and use some logic:

Trouble is most logic used to explain religion and the like is belief based. It defies most scientific logic, and that's what most seem to be after.

The notions of Heaven and Hell just reflect the primitive notion of binary morality: this is GOOD, GOOD things are GOOD, you do GOOD you go to GOOD place.

Can you prove the above from your previous post? That's just another belief, isn't it?

1. There is no evidence of any sort of afterlife
2. The notion of Heaven/Hell represents a very basic form of moral duality obviously necessary for societies that lacked he sort of enforcement abilities we have today
3. Societies can function without religion

1. Nothing concrete, no. But many believe it and do have a right to their own beliefs and opinions.
2. Maybe so, BUT it can't hurt in terms of people believing that their sins will be punished. Regardless of whether or not their sins will be punished. It's more proactive in that the fear may stop some from committing the crime.
3. That's debatable. For most if not all societies do involve religion to a huge extent. There's also that religious teachings often seem to become seen as morally correct and have entered our legal systems.

I'm pretty sure in Soviet Russia and the People's Republic of China, people don't wantonly murder each other any more than they do in the good 'ol Christian USA.

I'm pretty sure there would be a difference regardless. Different attitudes, different social taboos. Even without religion I believe the numbers would be quite different. I won't even pretend to know which are better or worse though.

[Draken Benvolaid]

...dude... seriously? Here's something that keeps people from doing bad shit: THE POLICE. Society is constructed in such a way that bad shit gets punished and morality is spoon-fed to us.

And, by the way, it's called burden of proof. If you claim something exists, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove so, not on me to prove it doesn't. So cut the melodramatic emo crap and use some logic:

1. There is no evidence of any sort of afterlife
2. The notion of Heaven/Hell represents a very basic form of moral duality obviously necessary for societies that lacked the sort of enforcement abilities we have today
3. Societies can function without religion

I've never claimed either in this thread. You claimed it doesn't, as an individual, prove it so, which is impossible.

1. There is neither proof of or not of. It's an unknown unknown.
It confirmes that neither can be said as true. "Heaven or hell exists or doesn't exist" A question that cannot be answered.

2. Representation is what you make of it. It can be either good or evil, depending on how you hold it. Those representing Heaven or Hell is just people, imperfect, fallible, and at times corrupt humans. I trust neither the Vatican or mass murderers.

3. Yes, they can. But denying the practice just shows human fears of what they may hold. Constricting human thought and free will in a totalitarianism won't bring a better nation.

I'm pretty sure in Soviet Russia and the People's Republic of China, people don't wantonly murder each other any more than they do in the good 'ol Christian USA.

That's fear of Punishment. Fears are what keeps many people in line, but never controls them forever. Going to jail, keeps many from committing crimes; being put to death, keeps many from killing others; and so on.

In no way does it mean that they were correct.





Giving people a foundation for their own morals, should they be taken away?