TFF and Roleplaying

[Magi of Worlds]

Ok. I've noticed that this has been going on for a while now. Very few people are posting in the RP and RP OOC forums. Now I know this isn't recent or anything. Its been happening for quite a while now. I've just been biding my time and now have decided to act! Most of our new members and even older members are concerned with only a select few different forums on TFF. As example: H/WG, General Chat, Intellectual Chat, and even Gaming. Now I'm not saying down with these forums or anything. I just wonder what happened to Roleplaying? Isn't that one of the larger forums in the TFF commmunity?

Why do very few people post in there or join RP's? I mean hell, even Andromeda will join one now and then. But very few older members seem to be concerned with the RP forums at all. That makes me really sad. What makes people steer clear of the RP forums? Do they think its too hard to Roleplay or something? If that's the reasoning behind this crisis then ask for some help! DragonHeart has even put up a thread explaining how to RP!

I just want to know one thing. What, as a community, are we going to do about this? Please give me all of your thoughts and concerns regarding this. Thank you everyone!!

[Andromeda]

I think in part some of the more wordy members (like myself) scared away a number of members. My length that I write I think makes them a little uneasy to approach because they think it is too much to try to match or handle, perhaps. I've made RPs that had a imposed limit on length, but they did not really fly any better than anything else.

I've tried to get social things started up in the RP, but time slips away from me. Lately I've been wanting to do things and have a few RPs planned to be started, but they've been on hold since I've been behind on my writing overall. So I've stopped most of the other writing projects to try to get myself caught up. That is in part why I haven't doing what I have been wanting.

RPing used to be a big thing for TFF, but a lot of core members that did the RPing left or lost the passion for it. And when they left there were no members to fill in their gaps. We even used to have RP Clubs, but they've all disappeared as well. Though people are under the misunderstanding that RP Clubs are not allowed. They actually are allowed to be created, there are just two themes that are not allowed to be created. Everything else is still free game.

There was also the case that most clubs tended to support a RP in the forum as well. And club membership in general has been severely down. So that also helped to pull away people from the RP Forums.

[loaf]

I've wanted to remake a giant RP an old forum friend started. My only concern was that either

A) Nobody will stick to it and after like a month of it beginning it just dies because everyone just gets tired of it.

B) Nobody will even want to do it. I for one am open for new RPs but usually A) happens a lot of to me when I get a writers block.

[Andromeda]

A) Nobody will stick to it and after like a month of it beginning it just dies because everyone just gets tired of it.

This is the unfortunate truth for nearly all RPs. Even back in 2002 when RPs were in their prime and near the entire first page of the forum listed RP threads that had been posted in the same day that was still a problem. I do believe that in all of the RPs that I've played here that I've only ever completed two of them and one was a rush job and the other was a half rush job (We were really close to the end).

It is a sad fact of the matter that I've had to live with along with anyone else that does any RPing around here. The fact that any RP you start has a 99% chance of never making it to the end. Depending on the people and motivation of the people you can give your a 50% chance of lasting to the middle or so, but most RPs tend to only survive about 50 posts. The good ones 100 posts and the great ones 200+.

[Magi of Worlds]

[QUOTE]It is a sad fact of the matter that I've had to live with along with anyone else that does any RPing around here. The fact that any RP you start has a 99% chance of never making it to the end. Depending on the people and motivation of the people you can give your a 50% chance of lasting to the middle or so, but most RPs tend to only survive about 50 posts. The good ones 100 posts and the great ones 200+.[QUOTE]

I know. Isn't this a sad fact! More RP's are shot down before they become good! I'm tired of this fact! Also, Loaf, if you try out the RP your talking about I will help you on it if you want!

[Unknown Entity]

I enjoy RPing, but everyone has and likes their own different styles of RPing. Some people prefer the organised route in which there's the process of the OOP; having someone else design the story, the scenery, the characters and their motives... etc, and everyone has to follow it. I'd probably enjoy it too if it wasn't for the sometimes impatient people who want to see your post within twenty minutes after their post, or they'll flame and troll you - don't tell me that doesn't happen, because I've seen it and heard about it with friends.

Then you have the ones with the short and simple OOP, with laid back members RPing at their own free will, and the story is free to develop in anyway possible (of course there'd be limits - you wouldn't bring on an invasion of UFOs in on a medieval setting). These are usually my favourite.

Then you have the "for funzies" RPs, which are fun until you get the jackasses who have to ruin it for everyone with their little tribe of morons. I vaguely remember an RP bar set in the woods on some text based game which turned into a cussing match with older Vs newer members... because a member who had two-hundred days extra playing on top of everyone else thought it'd be fun.

So, pretty much...

A) You need to have time (which not a lot of members have) to go through with an RP, especially if your post means the RP moving forward. Also, it pays to be a little patient with the process. However, not everyone has the time or the energy to take an OOP into account when they make their post, OR make an epicly long post about how they work up one morning and took a piss.

B) Laid back members usually means short posts (or some noob posts because everyone is too laid back) which no one else can do anything with. It's also kind of lame when someone drops out, leaving something unfinished - even though that can be overcome, it's not enjoyable for someone else to incorporate another character into their post to explain why they'd be "taking some time out".

C) Lack of direction and no rules is only fun for a while. Posts can end up short and unneeded to keep any sort of flow going. Comers and goers are welcome, but regular people doing that ruins certain atmospheres.

D) There's also a chance the RP will end up dead. Or overrun with the "for funzies" people having their jokes.

For some reason, I can't see an active, well thought out RP here on TFF happening for some time...

[Meier Link]

Also I think SGs have killed the RP forum for the most part. I have talked to some people about it and they choose to keep things in secret because they are not fond of the RP forum rules and prefer to short step things and use things like astrics instead of taking the time to actually write out what they are doing.

Not to point fingers but look at the activity (if you can) in the citizens of catastoph or what ever it is. Even though it is shotty RPing it has seen 10000Xs the amount of active that the RP forum has seen over the course of the last year.

[Unknown Entity]

Also I think SGs have killed the RP forum for the most part. I have talked to some people about it and they choose to keep things in secret because they are not fond of the RP forum rules and prefer to short step things and use things like astrics instead of taking the time to actually write out what they are doing.

Not to point fingers but look at the activity (if you can) in the citizens of catastoph or what ever it is. Even though it is shotty RPing it has seen 10000Xs the amount of active that the RP forum has seen over the course of the last year.

I don't think social groups have killed it. Like I said, some people have difference styles of RPing - if a group of TFFers prefer the use of astrics than a full blown post, then all the more for them.

Might I also add that most of the members who prefer those groups are the younger members - I don't think a long, detailed post is all that fun when compared with something short and simple.

[OceanEyes28]

I used to participate, but I'm like RP cursed or something haha. Longest one I was a part of was back in like '03 and lasted because the RP leader had a definite direction he wanted to take the story, and we just had to worry about being supporting characters (well developed supporting characters, mind you!). Though.... he sort of let us have room to play and create and wasn't overkill specific with the environment. And I really do like writing, but I got busy and my writing has taken on a different outlet (songwriting). That, and RPs always made me feel guilty if other people were waiting for me and I was too busy or distracted to come up with anything. That's a me issue, though.

But uh... yeah, I dunno.

[Meier Link]

Well I never said it was the only factor that killed off most of the active RPs, I simply ment that it was the final nail in the coffin so to speak. Most of those younger members have already shown they can have fun typing out longer detailed RP style posts. Look at the joke RP in WG/H for instance. Most of the members that use the SGs are also the ones that use to post in that very thread.

Sorry if my use of "killing" wasn't clear enough. For the most part I have to agree with you UE.

:edit: GWaaa Ally you got one in before me hahaha.

:edit: http://thefinalfantasy.net/forums/hu...-humorous.html that is the link I was talking about.

[Andromeda]

We've had a no asterisks rule since before I joined. Asterisks work out for chatrooms and things, but all it is just shorthand. When you have time to write out something without being pressed for time, like in a chatroom, you can take the time to give a well thought out action. In the end all I ask is that you write a paragraph or a few lines of dialogue.

I really don't know if I want to change the no asterisks rule we have. Because how would it feel for someone to post a well thought out post even if it is only a few paragraphs. And then the next post just using asterisks for all of their actions and it is only a couple of lines. It doesn't provide you with a lot of material to work with. Plus the fact that someone just wrote in shorthand while you spent your time writing things out.

It is sort of like how people feel when they see chatroom speak versus normal grammar and spelling. Asterisks versus story prose is very similar.

[Meier Link]

I am against the removal of the astrics rule. RPs and RPBs should be well thought out to me and the use of astrics takes away from that. Even though I am not an RPer I could not justify standing by that. Hence why I called that style of RPing "shotty".

[loaf]

I'm also against the removal of the astrics.

[Andromeda]

Alright! Thank you for that. ^^ It's good to know that there are others that feel the same way. And that makes sense now Meier. I wasn't sure if you were referring to the actually story and material or something else.

I have been wanting to run some more social RPs since they were something that was fairly popular back in the heyday. People that normally didn't RP or didn't like the serious stuff could have some fun with it and their friends. People usually did parties or weddings, but I want to illustrate to people that the serious hardcore RPs that you see myself and others running are not the only ones that can be done.

They tend to have lighter rules to allow people to have fun.

I try what I can to demonstrate what is possible, but I in general tend to lack the full amount of time I used to have for RPing. I mean back in the day we had a limit on how many RPs you could create. You could join as many as you wanted, but we actually limited how many you could run. Though there was a bit of an unspoken rule that you shouldn't join too many and stretch yourself thin. I ended up removing that rule because it became a little unnecessary due to our activity level.

[Magi of Worlds]

Thank you guys. You make very good, valid points and I respect you all for that!

I enjoy RPing, but everyone has and likes their own different styles of RPing. Some people prefer the organised route in which there's the process of the OOP; having someone else design the story, the scenery, the characters and their motives... etc, and everyone has to follow it. I'd probably enjoy it too if it wasn't for the sometimes impatient people who want to see your post within twenty minutes after their post, or they'll flame and troll you - don't tell me that doesn't happen, because I've seen it and heard about it with friends.

Then you have the ones with the short and simple OOP, with laid back members RPing at their own free will, and the story is free to develop in anyway possible (of course there'd be limits - you wouldn't bring on an invasion of UFOs in on a medieval setting). These are usually my favourite.

Then you have the "for funzies" RPs, which are fun until you get the jackasses who have to ruin it for everyone with their little tribe of morons. I vaguely remember an RP bar set in the woods on some text based game which turned into a cussing match with older Vs newer members... because a member who had two-hundred days extra playing on top of everyone else thought it'd be fun.

That is true. I like RP's that have rules and a definite story line that needs to be followed but the creator let's you do some things yourself. The SG thing can be a problem also. I think it definetly ruins the story if you have several people who come in and pull of what Chaostrophe members do.

All of my RP's have a definite story behind them but are meant to be fun too. They are interesting and can be awesome if you stick with it. Take a look at my latest ones. Fire Emblem and FF-VIII- The Second War. They were good RP's you could really get into. Not very many people joined them though. I mean hell, you don't have to have played those games to Roleplay about them do you? No! Its sad really.

[Andromeda]

I fixed up your quotes for your Magi. You were putting a "/" in the first one. It just needs to be [QUOTE ] and [/QUOTE ] minus the spaces of course. ^^

I can't believe I missed Ocean's post. I think part of the problem back when you were RPing and me was that I don't think we had a OoC forum. So a lot of people forewent the need for a OoC thread or must RP development. They would just a character bio posted at the first post along with their first post. After that people would join if interested and a story was just formed out of thin air as people posted. That sort of guideless RPing can be difficult to actually maintain unless the people involved are good about keeping things moving.

I actually enjoyed those sorts of RPs where there was nothing but the first post to go by. You dropped in randomly with the other person's character and were off. It was highly impromptu and a lot of the posts were cliffhanger types where they would leave openings for people to post.

I tend not to sort of see that type of posting anymore. The writing that leaves an opening for the next person. I know I'm guilty of it at times, though some of the people I play with we tend to have highly developed stories so an opening was not nearly as necessary. But providing an opening at the end of the post for the next person posting to latch on to with their character really helped to keep people going and fit in with each other. I don't know if that sort of thing would help any or not.

And you're right that you don't have to have played the games too much Magi to enjoy the RP. It tends to help though for interest sake a lot of times. It also helps with knowing the culture and setting without having to ask a lot of questions.

[Taco-Calamitous]

I've often thought it might be fun to participate in RP's, but I've only participated in one back in my first year as a member, and only two RPB's a few years ago. My biggest problem is that I am lazy. I have ideas for stories, but I don't want to put forth the effort to write them out well. Plus, way back when I first joined, I remember reading some really snobbish comments by the more serious RPers of newer members' RP posts, so that scared me then, and might still have some bearing on why I don't RP now. Other than being lazy and not wanting to take the time, that is. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[Magi of Worlds]

Thank you for fixing my quotes Andromeda. For some reason my toolbar isn't functioning fully.

And you're right that you don't have to have played the games too much Magi to enjoy the RP. It tends to help though for interest sake a lot of times. It also helps with knowing the culture and setting without having to ask a lot of questions.

Yes I know that to be true unfortunately. But if you aren't familiar with a certain topic when you join that RP aren't us older members here to be utilized to help? I mean I don't
mind answering questions at all.

[DragonHeart]

Part of it also has to do with the age of the member base, I think. Back when RP was active, most of us were still teenagers and in high school or just starting college. Lots of free time, few responsibilities. These days we seem to have an older crowd with less free time and things like careers and families.

My first RPB was written with asterisks. I'm glad to say I learned quickly...there wasn't an official rule against it at the time but you learned to drop 'em quick anyways.

~DragonHeart~

[Merlin]

For the longest time a group of us strove to re-ignite the RP flame in TFF to no avail. For whatever reason, people simply just don't have the desire to see things through to the end here. My favorite RP experiences were back when I first started and had the Clan Wars. We even had a memorable competition against a number of other forums. We would've won it if it weren't for the biased judges--- but that is another matter. I do work 9 hours a day during the week but I still have time I could devote to RPing several days a week, especially the weekend.

I will point out that I have never been fond of RPs based around games or movies for that matter. In my experience, they are typically cheesy fan fiction where people fight over who get's to be Cloud or whatever. The better ones at least are set in the same "world" but usage of any of the characters from the game/movie are forbidden. Those are more creative and have better potential. Even with that I am still leery of them.

If there was enough push to get RPing going again I'd join in. I'm not leading the pack on doing it though. I'm having a hard enough time getting people to help with the forum conversion. >_< TFF is known for a lot of "talk" about doing things, they just never actually do them.

[Magi of Worlds]

Well Merlin if it helps, I know what you mean about fighting over character's from a game or movie. In my opinion that's quite rediculous! Why put those people into your RP if you know that will happen? I personally have been in three different Final Fantasy RP's where people fought over who should be Cloud, Squall, and Auron! Its just stupid! On another note, I will lead the RP's to victory if nobody objects. I myself regard RPing with much passion and love!

[OceanEyes28]

Haha and when some people RP as established FF characters, and others as their own characters, it's so awkward. It's like the FF characters have to put up with this new guy and barely notice or care what happens in his posts.

[Merlin]

Or even worse when they end up with a god complex. "ZOMG I am Squall so I can do uber damage and you can't!" "Well I'm Sephiroth and your attacks can't even hit me because I'm so fast!" Yeah, well I'm Meteor and I destroyed the entire planet, so you both die. End of RP.

[Andromeda]

^^; Yeah, that's probably why it is best to do all original characters or all canon when you doing RPs based off of something. I tend to avoid RPs based on games or anime though. I went through my phase of doing that back when I first joined and even then I only did a few of them. They can be fun, but like Merlin said it often just feels like a fan fiction. Though I can't say too much since the only active RP I'm in currently is a Bleach RP. >.>

And as always I will encourage anyone that wants to try to re-spark activity for the RP. Time's always a negative factor for me.

[Meier Link]

I can say as an avid reader of the RPs here at TFF and some other sites that I to hate reading an RP that involve preset characters from presaid games. It is a huge annoyance. They are sooooo scripted it isn't funny and 99.95 of the time the person that gets that character is so abusive of that character or has no clue how to fully capture that charaters persona and perspective that it isn't even funny.

I seriously think RPs like that should be STRICTLY limited to people that have indepth knowledge of the character and also should have a limited number of people allowed to contribute to that RP. But good god that would be difficult to actually acheive haha.

[Andromeda]

You want people that can actually understand the character that they are playing and accurately portray them. That's pretty hard to find, it is why fan fiction is generally so terrible. The writer doesn't actually understand the characters well enough to portray them correctly. It is another good reason to stay away, not understanding the characters. At least with original characters you don't have something to compare against. ^^ So they can't really say you're portraying them wrong, unless you were really specific on their personality.

[Magi of Worlds]

Yes though observations are true Meier and Andromeda! You two bring valuable arguements and points wherever you go!

[Meier Link]

Yeah I know it is far fetched and that is part of the reason I was putting it out there haha.

I was just trying to aid in the topic that RPs set on preset character builds is kind of retarted, hence the last line haha. Then again even if a RP was set up so that the characters were to follow suit there would still be someone that would bitch about how someone is controling that character.

I personaly enjoy the more free roaming, customizable, original character RPs better then ones based around pre-exsisting stories, characters, yadda yadda. Plus it seems like more thought process is involved.

Personally I would love to see a full revival of the RP forum and I think there is enough RPers left here to do it. It is just a matter of finding the time and who is actually interested in doing so to accomplish this.

In some of our convos Andro we have discussed a few ways and I think we are some what on the right track to doing so. I truely hope it comes to be. Who knows, maybe if the RP forum picks back up I might be tempted to join in on a few. You have seen my writing ability and I have provided a link to a not so serious RP. I would eventually like to get into it but there would have to be a sound user base because I hate leaving a story unfinished. This also applies to the CD hahha, I was 2/3 of the way through a story and by the looks of it might never be completed.

:edit: Magi got his post in before I could hahaha. I was speaking directly to Andro for the most part.

[Xithor]

I fully agree with all the comments that have been expressed in this thread, RPing is something that is great to participate in but you do need to have the time to put into them to make them good. I have been in RP's but I never really finished any of them, the only significant ones that I actually could say that I got a conclusion out of was not here but at another forum where we RPed battles and those would be prob 10-15 posts per combatant and the judges would judge who RPed the best.

Things that frustrate me are all the same things you have been outlining:
People that God mode are the worst!!!!
Pre-set characters - come on and create a new character and develop their background and attributes yourself don't try to fit into the mold that has already been laid out.

I'll definitely look into the RP forums more often though

[Andromeda]

I really don't know how big our user base is anymore since there are "secret" groups playing off in the social groups. So them not having any presence in the actual RP Forum throws off the numbers. If you had to judge what we have off of the people that just play in the RP, there's probably 10 total. There are probably another 10 lying about the forums that probably used to play or could, but for whichever reason no longer do. Then there are probably another 10 or 20 out there that can RP if they want, but in general don't (I'm mainly referring to those that show up to the Ball).

However, I suspect that there are nearly as many running around the social groups having nothing to do with the RP Forums in any form. So if that is the case there could be about 60-80 RPers on the forum, potentially. I'm just making a guesstimate though so I don't know if there are really that many running around.

Even if we did have a revival though the problem you're going to have is still going to exist. As I had said before, even in the peak of RPing on TFF there was still a 99% chance of the RP never seeing an end. It is unlikely that number will change with new members in the mix that were not available back then. So I think you'll just have to face up to the fact that it'll probably die even if you start it Meier. It is something that all of the experience RPers have had to accept. The more die hard ones have more trouble accepting it and so those RPers tend to linger on longer, but if you only have one die hard in the RP it won't really matter.