Free health care

[Dan558]

Anyways let me start off by saying thanks Silver, you counter some things with statements that I agree with (like the "when" issue). It's always nice to know there is another sane person out there on the subject...

Every system in place now was started when somebody said, "You know what, this would be a good idea." Socialized medicine is one of those things that wouldn't be a good idea -- and the U.S. only has to look North or at their British allies to see how bad of an idea it is.

OMG YOU have to get off the reasoning that you "think" that Canada's Health care is atrocious. Yes, It's not perfect, YES, It can be thought that it is bad by certain people and you have found articles they have written (round of applause) but the real "fact" is that it keeps being voted for (by voteing for the party) for a very long time. IF it was as awful as you keep stating it would probably be more of an issue for them and they would progressively have less and less until it was no more but it has been going strong as long as I've known. If you think that just because people live a few degrees north that makes a whole country stupid enough to keep it around when it's apparently soooo bad then that would be an ignorant assumption. Anyways the real subject of the thread isn't "The US should have a free healthcare plan JUST like Canada does"

Anyways While we're back on assuming, I donno why the stereotyping had to be brought back up. I did (some of) it, I myself realized it, and I disciplined myself because of it. Then I had an opinion on a single person based on what I was presented with. Just in case anyone is still boo hooing over it: On my behalf I'm sorry, it was wrong.

That would indicate that 92% of the people are either satisfied enough with public health care or unsatisfied and cannot afford private healthcare.

This blew my mind. On several occasions you have insisted that anyone even the poor could afford private healthcare with simple payments and bullshit and now that I really think of it THATS bullshit. Against anyone who said that they wouldn't be able to afford such and such you have said that they COULD IF they had an efficiently budgeted and responsible health plan... Thats ridiculous to think that any low budget health insurance would make any money problems go away on ANY misfortune or incident. Like if Pablo Honey was in america her mother would get treated and there would be no financial problems afterwards because they could pay the minimum payment on the plan they choose with the precognitive knowledge that she would fall into those saddening events. Also thinking that a plan where you have to pay so little each month or whatever wouldn't be an incredible nuisance where things such as interest would prevent someone from paying an annoying bill off for even longer. In most places that have universal/free health care (even the dreaded Canada) the health care system does cover everything that needs treatment (even though I know you'll play this out like people sit outside hospitals with vultures picking at them because they had to wait sooo long) with minimum payments(in tax). In places that have privatized healthcare if you can and do choose to have a cheaper healthcare plan (like one of the ones you have insisted that anybody that works could afford) they would not cover nearly as much as a government run healthcare plan would. You pay for insurance against diseases, you break a bone "sorry you arn't covered" etc etc. With a universal health care plan these things definatly don't come up so often (I'm not gonna say never because you'll for sure come up with 16 articles of isolated and extreme events where it did happen)

Also like i have kinda said before just because you have found articles stating that such and such is bad dosn't mean that there arn't articles that say otherwise or even that it is a fact. You have brought up articles that insist that Canadas healthcare is a travesty and such. Just because an article says it dosn't mean its true, even if its by people who should really know... For example wasn't there a time when most of the Bush administration insisted that there were WMDs in Iraq? Then it was found to be untrue. I would expect the highest government officials to be in the know and anybody responsible for stating these claims to know for sure before they do but guess what? They were wrong just as an article can be wrong or just plain subjective. Before anyone gets retarded and says "apples to oranges" again ITS AN EXAMPLE I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

And let's also not forget that everybody can buy a firearm for their own personal protection, and that many people who can afford it actually do have bodyguards.

Kids are covered by the police and they can't buy their own guns. Orphans will be helped by police and they really don't have anyone to personally protect them. Universal healthcare would also cover people just like them where they couldn't get their own private healthcare. Would you chastise an orphan saying "You should budget correctly and if you did your research you could be paying as little as $5 a month for expensive medical care" because you have lived in a world where healthcare insurance was denied to you right? See extremes can argue a lot of things...

[Koda]

Ok, I'm going to put my two cents worth in here as I did earlier. I agree that I don't want to have to pay more taxes for anything. Already here in the states the taxes that we pay on everything from property taxes to cigarettes is outrageous. Welfare for example.... We as working citizens are their paychecks. And as far as I'm concerned, for those in my area, most are dead beats that can work but won't. We as tax payers pay for their food, rent, and medical expenses. So no I'm not a happy camper about that.
On the insurance note, again, no I don't want to pay more in taxes, I'm taxed to death now, but with that being said, I also don't want to see any child go without medical care because they have no health insurance or simply aren't taken to see a doctor because of the 'no insurance'. To give you a real figure, and I saw this bill myself just yesterday. A friend of mine, whom I work with, had brain surgery. Just the bill for the surgery, not the Dr. bill or Anestiologist (spelled wrong I know) or medications used or given during surgery, was $23,000.00. So far to date, and he just got out of the hospital with much physical and speech therapy to go, the total dollar amount so far is over $48,000.00. Because we are lucky enough to have very affordable insurance through our employer, and an outstanding health plan, his out of pocket amount owed is just a little over $400.00. Now back to the $23,000.00 bill. That is the amount that the hospital billed the insurance company, but the insurance company said...no we'll give you $10,000.00 and call it even. He owes nothing on that bill. That alone shows you what someone without insurance would be facing. It's ridiculous!
I agree there should be something other than welfare, because not all people are without work, they just work places that don't offer insurance. And everyone deserves to be covered so they aren't forced into bankruptcy, foreclosure, or complete devastation because of an unforeseen illness.
I do know people that live in other countries that do have universal health care, and yes, I'll say it again....it seems to be working for them. But as before, just because they have the universal health care doesn't mean EVERYONE has to participate. It's an option, as it should be.
As for our Doctors and Hospitals, yes, we do have some of the BEST care in the world. And we do have people from all over the world that come to our country to go to school to become doctors. But we also have some of the highest medical cost in the world too.
I know I am rambling, but don't you think that the bottom line is this.....EVERYONE deserves the right to have health insurance...EVERYONE deserves the right to get quality care regardless of ability to pay....and EVERYONE has the right to have the choice of private coverage or universal coverage. It's really that simple.