Australia just banned gridgirls from motorsport

**Rowan** · 02-01-2018, 05:00 PM

Because why should women let other women who are vastly more attractive, do what they want to do, for people who want to employ them for people to enjoy?

lets face it, ugly bitches hate them. Ugly bitches are technically the ones who support this shit.

I think ugly women should be banned from having opinions.

**nix** · 02-01-2018, 05:48 PM

For what reason were they banned?

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-01-2018, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by nix

For what reason were they banned?

From this article:

They said the practice of having the women milling about in the grid area before races was “clearly at odds with modern day societal norms”.

and

The treatment and media image of women in sport has been drawn into sharp focus after the momentum sparked by the #MeToo campaign which has highlighted allegations of sexual misconduct in the world of entertainment and politics.

So a bit PC, a bit #MeToo, though I don't understand the #MeToo aspect, tbh. I didn't read anywhere wherein the grid girls were complaining about being harassed, in that article. Maybe @WomenSportTrust felt harassed on their behalf, because that's the only outside entity the article quotes that commented on this.

**nix** · 02-01-2018, 09:44 PM

ehh

So they think these women are sucking willies to be in with a chance to wave a flag at a racing event? WTF?!

May as well ban cheer leaders while they're at it

**Pete** · 02-02-2018, 05:18 AM

This is the sad, insane world that we live in.

If these girls wanted to do this job, got paid well and didn't suffer any harassment by their superiors, who cares? Of course you're going to get the typical jerk who will say something dumb to them, but that's gonna happen anywhere. It's actually doing these women a disservice by denying them opportunities because other people are offended on their behalf.

It reminds me of that commercial with Ronaldo, where he's locked out of his hotel room, only in his boxers and some maid takes a picture of him, posts it online and women swoon. This is acceptable, but could you imagine if the roles were reversed and a dude posted a pic of some supermodel. It would be the end of the world.

I'm so glad that I'm not single these days, and have a woman who has common sense. I don't think I'd be able to go out and meet a girl in today's climate.

**OceanEyes28** · 02-02-2018, 09:23 AM

I liked the part where you called women ugly bitches and said they shouldn't have opinions.

I also liked the part where none of the other men in this thread thought that was a problem.

**nix** · 02-02-2018, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

I liked the part where you called women ugly bitches and said they shouldn't have opinions.

I also liked the part where none of the other men in this thread thought that was a problem.

lol

TRIGGERED

Take it with a pinch of salt darling, take the truth from what he said and go with that..

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-02-2018, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

I liked the part where you called women ugly bitches and said they shouldn't have opinions.

I also liked the part where none of the other men in this thread thought that was a problem.

I like the part where this was your only takeaway from the entire thread. I like the part where you think we're supposed to police what other people do. Oh wait. Isn't that... YOUR job? lolol....

**Pete** · 02-04-2018, 04:17 AM

As always, the truth lies in the middle. Rowan shouldn't be and isn't calling all women ugly bitches, and he shouldn't be saying that certain groups should be denied opinions. Obviously everyone has a right to an opinion, but the problem with today's society is that everyone's opinion matters too damn much when it comes to being offended.

Just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean anyone has to take it into consideration. My honest opinion, you should be allowed to run over jaywalkers and cyclists who cross when the driver has a green light, then bill them for damages to your car. It's an insane opinion, but it's how I truly feel. It'll never become a movement in society, but as someone who follows the rules as best I can, it offends me when people think that it's acceptable to both slow my commute AND break the law.

It's the same thing as people who are offended by seeing a few models wave a flag at the beginning of a race, and then pose with the winner. I also don't think that the girls are the reason that there's limited female viewership and downward trending ratings in the past years, but what the hell do I know.

Hell, if you want to push for equality, why not have a bunch of rippded dudes in g strings waving the checkered flags from poles attached to said g string. I'm sure that'll go over real well

Our society is being destroyed by the snowflakes and participation trophy generations. There's no reason to stop having the race girls. I'm sure they all knew the type of work they'd be doing before they signed up to audition or interview. Now, if they were forced or suggested to do anything sexual to get their jobs, that's a huge problem. However, in my limited amount of research, that hasn't been the case. The problem is that other people are offended on their behalf, and ultimately cost these girls a job. I'm sure they could go and do other modeling jobs, but that's not the point.

**Rowan** · 02-04-2018, 02:33 PM

Pete pretty much says what I want to say, in a more respectable way.
You see, I could be more intelligent and eloquent in my posts. I could spend time coming up with detailed and factual statements backed up by evidence and so fourth. However, this would not grab your attention Alisyn. I want you to post and I want you to respond in that fiery way that you do.

its so hot.

**OceanEyes28** · 02-04-2018, 04:48 PM

As usual, this went exactly the way I expected it to. Thanks, bros.

Also, how are you guys so surprised that an actual woman finds talking rudely about women to be uhhhh rude? I don't care about women in bikinis (I love women in bikinis if they wanna be in bikinis? women are beautiful?), I'm talking about the dehumanizing language used to talk about women. And none of y'all had a thing to say about it. And when it was brought up, the responses were completely predictable.

Talking to sad men must be my fetish, otherwise I don't know why I still do it.

**Rowan** · 02-04-2018, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

As usual, this went exactly the way I expected it to. Thanks, bros.

Also, how are you guys so surprised that an actual woman finds talking rudely about women to be uhhhh rude? I don't care about women in bikinis (I love women in bikinis if they wanna be in bikinis? women are beautiful?), I'm talking about the dehumanizing language used to talk about women. And none of y'all had a thing to say about it. And when it was brought up, the responses were completely predictable.

Talking to sad men must be my fetish, otherwise I don't know why I still do it.

I know you think I'm generalizing when I say ugly women shouldn't have opinions, buy I'm not. Believe it or not, I think women can be great (not that it matters what a man like me thinks, amirite?) but just so you know, I do appreciate women (omg im so condescending right now, like, who needs MY approval, right?) I just think that if women want to be gridgirls, then its definitely not men who are stopping them and the women that are, just happen to be ugly and jealous of those kinds of girls.

When was I being degrading to all women? For someone whos trying to call out people who generalize, you do a great deal of that yourself.

**Pete** · 02-05-2018, 05:18 AM

I think it's fair to say that everyone has a right to an opinion, and everyone has a right to be offended. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion as well.

Ally isn't wrong for feeling offended and honestly, we kind of didn't help but perpetuate any negative stereotypes of male gaming culture. Not so much that we're talking games, but this is a forum based on a game series.

I can see why they got rid of the grid girls. I don't agree with it, but I can understand the optics. The sport is almost entirely male racers, with thin, attractive women dressed in tight, revealing clothing. On one hand, I can see how people would take issue with the idea of women as a decoration. It's a shitty thought, because Ally, as well as women across the world have proven that women are smart, strong and beautiful in ways that go beyond the physical. The grid girls are only celebrated for their looks. That's their choice, and that's great too. If a woman wants to pursue a modeling career, God bless.

It's a shitty double edged sword trying to see both sides of this argument. I totally get how people can be against the idea of the grid girl, because it does treat women as decorations. The #metoo movement might even play into the decision to get rid of them. I don't know for sure. That's a subject for another day. On the other hand, if that's something they want to pursue, and aren't abused in the process, then I don't see a problem with it, especially if they're fairly compensated. I'm not one to tell people how they should be living their lives. I just think maybe we should take a step back to hear both sides of the story.

**Rowan** · 02-05-2018, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pete

I think it's fair to say that everyone has a right to an opinion, and everyone has a right to be offended. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion as well.

Ally isn't wrong for feeling offended and honestly, we kind of didn't help but perpetuate any negative stereotypes of male gaming culture. Not so much that we're talking games, but this is a forum based on a game series.

I can see why they got rid of the grid girls. I don't agree with it, but I can understand the optics. The sport is almost entirely male racers, with thin, attractive women dressed in tight, revealing clothing. On one hand, I can see how people would take issue with the idea of women as a decoration. It's a shitty thought, because Ally, as well as women across the world have proven that women are smart, strong and beautiful in ways that go beyond the physical. The grid girls are only celebrated for their looks. That's their choice, and that's great too. If a woman wants to pursue a modeling career, God bless.

It's a shitty double edged sword trying to see both sides of this argument. I totally get how people can be against the idea of the grid girl, because it does treat women as decorations. The #metoo movement might even play into the decision to get rid of them. I don't know for sure. That's a subject for another day. On the other hand, if that's something they want to pursue, and aren't abused in the process, then I don't see a problem with it, especially if they're fairly compensated. I'm not one to tell people how they should be living their lives. I just think maybe we should take a step back to hear both sides of the story.

Dude but you're not. Neither am I. These girls were perfectly happy being there and getting paid to look good. The only people who are telling others how to live their lives are the ones that got them fucking fired.
And the justification - some weak ass feminist perspective

And you expect everyone just agree with it because everyones opinion matters? No, I do not think everyones opinion matters. I don't think all opinions must be respected. I dont believe in that backhanded apologetic form of flattery when someones getting upset.

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-05-2018, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by OceanEyes28

As usual, this went exactly the way I expected it to. Thanks, bros.

Also, how are you guys so surprised that an actual woman finds talking rudely about women to be uhhhh rude? I don't care about women in bikinis (I love women in bikinis if they wanna be in bikinis? women are beautiful?), I'm talking about the dehumanizing language used to talk about women. And none of y'all had a thing to say about it. And when it was brought up, the responses were completely predictable.

Talking to sad men must be my fetish, otherwise I don't know why I still do it.

Again, it’s not my job to tell someone else how to talk. If I had, I bet Rowan would’ve told me to eat shit, and I wouldn’t blame him, because I have no authority over him. And again, YOU DO. You’re a fucking Admin on this site. Don’t whine to me about people being rude either. You’re really not one to talk. You only care when YOU are offended. That has always been you.

Edit: furthermore, I don’t give a shit how “predictable” or “sad” you think my reaction was. I could say the same about YOUR condescending ass.

**Pete** · 02-05-2018, 04:42 PM

I'm not trying to do anything other than look at both sides as objectively as I can. I honestly believe that the grid girls are fine. Watching cars go around in circles is boring as fuck anyway, and in America the stereotype is that it's beloved by cousin fuckers. That being said, if I was stuck watching constant left turns, I'd sure as shit need several beers and something pretty to distract me. That's me at my most basic.

I agree that it's ridiculous that they got fired because someone else had a problem with it. It would be infinitely worse if they were fired for making true complaints about harassment, which thankfully isn't the case. That would be the equivalent of me getting fired because someone didn't like construction noise or how the building looked. It's ridiculous. I'm not saying that you have to like or agree with these opinions, I'm just saying people have a right to them and they're valid. You don't have to care, hell, I don't really care. Just like me being totally anti dumbass cyclist and jaywalker, I think my point is totally valid and THE correct stance. Most people will look at it and think I'm either an idiot or psychopath and will dismiss it. I don't think anyone has to agree with me or accept it. I don't think anyone has to agree with the decision to get rid of the girls, but I do think there should be more discussion before they make a decision to do such a thing.

I fully believe that these things should not be treated as witch hunts, but rather opportunities to figure shit out on both sides.

**Rowan** · 02-05-2018, 04:43 PM

When dumb opinions voiced by a minority cause people to lose their jobs, I would say that the opinions of that minority need to be discredited.

**OceanEyes28** · 02-05-2018, 06:49 PM

It seems like at least one of you is feeling a little victimized right now. I find that interesting.

I don't believe I said anything about all of us needing to agree. In fact, that's the opposite of what I'm saying. I disagree with the way you often talk about women, Rowan. I can't stop you or have someone else stop you, but I can tell you that I don't like it. I find it gross. Again, really do not give a damn about grid girls being grid girls. That is not my issue. Found your language off putting, found the lack of comment on it off putting, said something. I don't have to agree with you any more than you have to agree with me, and I do have a right to speak up when someone is being dehumanizing about my gender. Again (for those of you having a hard time), me disagreeing with you is not bullying or policing you or demanding that everyone agree with me. But I am going to speak my mind.

I do appreciate Pete's attempt to actually hear what I'm saying.

Also, I never claimed to be coming at this with the element of surprise. Rowan said something kinda shitty, I said (albeit sarcastically) that I found it shitty. Yeah, I'd say that's fairly predictable. Like that's basically our pattern. On that, we are agreed.

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-05-2018, 08:06 PM

Yeah, maybe “one of us is feeling victimized” because you gave us all responsibility for what one person said. Maybe “one of us” wouldn’t have taken issue if you hadn’t decided to group “all of us” together. Maybe the condescending tone didn’t help either. Maybe you have a history of behaving in a certain way that “one of us” finds off-putting. Maybe. Did you ever consider that? Or is your high horse too high for that sort of thing?

Edit: and it’s funny how you won’t address the things that “one of us” has been saying to you.

**OceanEyes28** · 02-05-2018, 08:24 PM

I'm not addressing it because I already know you don't like me, and it doesn't bother me.

**Rowan** · 02-05-2018, 09:05 PM

Maybe you Americans have a different way of expressing yourselves compared to us Aussies, or maybe its the feminism wreaking through. But when I say ugly bitches, im not taking a shot at your or your whole gender, just aspects of it.

What I think that you dont like, is me reffering to anyone of your gender as an 'ugly bitch' or even 'bitch'.

Which is wrong on your part. You tend to twist peoples words, inflate situations beyond reasonable measure and make everything about gender. Its a sickness and it starts with the letter "F"

**OceanEyes28** · 02-05-2018, 09:21 PM

To speak in a dehumanizing way about someone is to deprive them of their positive human qualities, personality, and individuality, which is what you are doing by calling women you don't agree with "ugly bitches" and saying that they "should be banned from having opinions." I don't believe I am twisting your words, just commenting on their effect.

You tend to say something inflammatory, and when called on it, act as though you have been reasonable this whole time and cannot understand why no one is being fair to you about it. We all have our tendencies.

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-05-2018, 09:23 PM

Then why the fuck did you talk to me in the first place?

It's funny how you don't even realize that you're a troll.

**Rowan** · 02-05-2018, 09:27 PM

I dont wanna argue with you, cause I know you're a good person. I just have a problem with feminism.
if someone wrongs me though, I dont tend to think about their positive qualities.

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-05-2018, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Rowan

I dont wanna argue with you, cause I know you're a good person.

You're giving her far too much credit, there.

**OceanEyes28** · 02-05-2018, 09:35 PM

Taco, I was addressing all of the posters in this thread. Your responses have been pretty personal in nature, and I don't see any value in arguing over your opinion of me.

Rowan, I appreciate that. I know that you have a problem with feminism. I have a problem with misogyny. We are going to butt heads sometimes (all the time?), but I do believe that there is more to you than your original post. I know that you are capable of love, sorrow, and humanity, and I see the good in you, as well. That's why I bothered to engage in the first place.

**Taco-Calamitous** · 02-05-2018, 09:41 PM

You took issue with what one person said, and then made it about everyone who had already responded to the thread. My initial response to this thread was quoting an article to answer a question nix had. I do not appreciate being made guilty by association, and it wouldn't have mattered who did it, I still would have been mad. Extra points that it was you. From there, you failed to acknowledge that that was a bullshit thing to do, and I got excessively more irritated.

If you had only made it about what Rowan said, I would NOT have cared.

EDIT: So yeah. You're right. I DON'T much care for you. But if you keep it civil and in good faith, I will, too.

**nix** · 02-06-2018, 07:25 AM

Well put Taco! And thanks for being helpful. We need the thanks button back up in this muja fuja!

But seriously, When did Partypooper28 turn into a boring-hyper-feminist?

**Unknown Entity** · 02-07-2018, 05:31 AM

I want to know what you think an ugly bitch is. I’ve always thought I was ugly. I think I am ugly. But am I beautiful by saying I disagree with grid girls no longer being allowed? Probably not.

Whilst not a feminist myself (at least, I don’t class myself as such), I see where Oceaneyes is coming from. She’s not wrong.

But everyone has the capacity to be a bitch. Or a dickhead. There’s a severe lack of mindfulness of others in this thread and think it applies here.

**Pete** · 02-07-2018, 08:05 AM

I think the problem is less to do with the issue at hand and more to do with the way it was presented.

If we just brought the topic up as "how do you feel about the decision to remove grid girls because of complaints from outside groups?", I think we would have less of an issue. When we start throwing around terms like ugly bitches, and saying how they don't deserve to have opinions, we venture into misogyny. That's really where the problem stems from.

Let's try to reboot this conversation in that vein, because we actually could have a decent discussion with a lot of different paths to take. We have grid girls, #metoo and a number of different ideas