Australia just banned gridgirls from motorsport

[Taco-Calamitous]

Let me just say a few things, and from there, whatevs:

1. I take responsibility for what I say, and what I say only. I am not going to be made to feel guilty about someone else says, regardless of what it is. Guilt by association is bullshit, and no one is going to guilt me in to feeling it, regardless of the reasoning or perceived severity of the offending comment. I am not a moderator anymore, and that isn't my job. Even if I was, I was never a moderator in General Chat, so that wouldn't be my area of responsibility anyway.

2. This forum taught me that white-knighting is stupid, and will make people mad at me. Seriously. I feel embarrassed that I used to do that shit, and I will try to refrain from doing it in the future.

3. Related to #2, but that has been the perception I have had of the general attitude of this place. I didn't accept it at first, but now I have. That this seems to have changed rather recently--almost conveniently for a given topic--seems rather interesting to me.

4. Sure, Pete, we probably should start the conversation over, if there is anything more to be said. I'm not entirely sure that there is, however. It seems pretty cut and dry, to me. There were women who were making a living off of showing themselves off--their choice. Some other people--definitely some other women--were offended by that, and put a stop to it, in the name of progress. That they're hurting these other women financially either a) doesn't occur to them, or b) doesn't matter to them. To them, seemingly, "progress" outweighs the economic hurt this move causes to those women. I suppose the question, then, should be whether progress or the grid girls' livelihoods are more important.

5. No prob, nix :3

[Pete]

I'm just trying to get things going without having everyone at each other's throats. If a slightly less hostile environment helps to keep people here or to make people feel a little more comfortable posting here, then I'm all for it.

I actually agree with you that it's wrong that any group can determine someone else's livelihood just because they don't like it. The grid girls aren't hurting anyone.

I actually think that brand of feminism is wrong, because the way I see it, feminism should be seen as a movement for equality and having the same freedoms that men are said to have. Economic freedom is a major part of that. Isn't it more progressive to give women more opportunities for economic freedom.

What about strippers, who are making the choice to be far more sexualized and put themselves in much shittier situations, more or less for direct pay from individuals, as opposed to a modeling agency or corporate sponsor? They get paid well for it, and they're making a decision on how to earn their own money. Granted, it's literally the definition of the objectification of women.

Legit question for debate, because I'm curious to see where people stand on this matter. It's definitely different than the grid girl scenario.

[Taco-Calamitous]

In my opinion, anyone should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as it doesn't hurt or inhibit someone else. So I think that strippers should be allowed to strip, and grid girls should be allowed to grid.

However, maybe the difference between strippers and grid girls is that grid girls are more in the public eye? I assume that racing in Australia is nationally televised, like it is here in the states. They aren't stripped naked, but they're still in suggestive clothing, I guess.

I suppose that the question is whether they should be allowed to put themselves in a situation where their bodies are objectified by men. I think they should be allowed to do that, as per it's their bodies, and their bodily autonomy.

[Rowan]

What irks me more than anything is how its constantly seen as acceptable to 'objectify' men, but not women. I wouldn't care about objectification if it meant a persons stance on it applied to both genders, but as we all know the word only applies to women. Me calling someone an ugly bitch who shouldn't have an opinion isn't disparaging an entire gender anymore than saying 'that bunch of dudes are assholes and they shouldnt be allowed to work there'.

I cant believe I have to explain something so basic, it takes the fun out of posting.

[Pete]

Yeah Rowan, but when you say something like ugly bitches shouldn't have opinions, it takes the fun out of posting for other people. I'm not saying it's disparaging all women, but it can be off putting when people read that.

It'd be the same thing as saying Australians shouldn't have opinions because they've descended from criminals. It's an absolutely ridiculous statement, but I'm sure it'll piss people off.

[Clint]

Ugly women aren't the problem. Ugly liberal women are the problem. Conservative women don't give a shit.

Women choosing to accept a job to become a grid girl is not sexist. They know what the job entails before they even agree to their employment. On top of that, grid girls aren't whores who sleep with drivers, so it's really no big deal to begin with.

Essentially this is just ugly liberal women forcing other women out of jobs because they're offended that these women are attractive and they aren't. You're such a warrior for women and women's rights by forcing women out of work and shaming them for being pretty.