Who's got the Gambits playing the game for you?

[walteroloco]

Something I noticed about FFXII is that the gambits are playing the game for me. All I do is move the character's around and wait for the attack to start. It doesn't seem like I'm playing the game at all. On the other hand I don't want to constantly be selecting actions for all my characters. In other FFs selecting actions never felt like a chore but in FFXII it does. It's more of a movie than a game with the gambits. Somehow though it's my favourite game, I think due to the beginning when I actually controlled the characters. Then it got so complicated that the gambits started doing everything. Anyone else had this issue?

[Dodie16]

For the character I was controlling, the gambits I used were kept to a minimum, and the other two that were not in my direct control, I usually had quite a few gambits set for them. That way, I could still input commands that I thought I needed, while my other two just did their thing and I didn't have to worry too much about their battle strategies.

[loaf]

Then change your gambits up so you select certain skills over others. You can make up so many combinations with the gambit system. Need to experiment with them.

[Zargabaath]

You are forcing yourself to play within the "box" so to speak. You could play Final Fantasy XII like I do, fully control one character. With Gambits on the other two characters and one character fully controlled it would be no different from: Star Ocean, Tales of, Persona 3, or any other RPG that has an AI.


You are still playing the game even by using Gambits. Gambits are changed area to area, bosses, and certain monsters. That requires the player to set them up, without the player's input characters would just have their basic gambit set-up from when they first joined the party. The game does not decide what gambits to choose, it is the player, making the Gambits an advanced AI system akin to programming. The Gambits take away from the monotony that are prevalent in JRPGs of mostly pressing "confirm" for attack; Gambits streamline the process. People still find pressing "confirm" to be important and as playing the game though it gets repetitive. Originally, the party leader would not have been able to use Gambits but the developers decided to include them for when the player was griding/farming.

This is a somewhat old but the comic strip reveals a truth of RPGs - from a certain point of view. Final Fantasy Ueber Alles. Scrolling down the page you'll come across a comic strip about when Dragon Quest first came out and the fellow's friend having him try out the game while explaining the gameplay. The guy asks how to move the hero and strike the enemy. His friend replies, " Simple, pick the fight command & then your guy automatically attacks the enemy." To which the player is taken aback that all he has to do is tell the game to attack and the game does it for him and he only gets to read about (or see the action in other/later JRPGs).

So are we really playing any turn-based RPG(regarding combat)? As shown in the comic, we, the players, are not truly controlling the character(s) to move up and then attacking with the corresponding button. We are observers. Now games like Star Ocean, Tales of, & any other Action-RPG the player does control movement and when to attack, guard, etc therefore are not included. With that what makes Final Fantasy XII's combat all that different?

[Linus Li Lelouch]

I wouldn't call that a problem honestly, the gambits have been playing the game for me, for quite a while lol. It's only when I find one of the hidden Espers that I get my azz royally kicked.

I mean so far, i think every boss fight I got into, the gambits took over and I pretty much walked away to the bathroom, get something to eat, drinks, and when I came back the fight was over lol.

I love the gambit system.

[Confession]

When it came to playing just running around, I'd control one char and have the others full gambits. Cept when I was on the phone and I'd switch my mains gambits on

As for long ass bosses thouhg, like Yiazmat. I but my gambits on, went to bed woke up and he was dead. But those gambits took me a long time to master

[Zeromus]

Yeah sometimes it felt as if they were doing the hard stuff for me...untill i got to the hard stuff lol. Then I realized how appropriate they were and started doing different combos with them and finding it more exciting to do different things with each character trying to make them more unique as possible. Made the game even better IMO

[Dan558]

Something I noticed about FFXII is that the gambits are playing the game for me. All I do is move the character's around and wait for the attack to start. It doesn't seem like I'm playing the game at all. On the other hand I don't want to constantly be selecting actions for all my characters. In other FFs selecting actions never felt like a chore but in FFXII it does. It's more of a movie than a game with the gambits. Somehow though it's my favourite game, I think due to the beginning when I actually controlled the characters. Then it got so complicated that the gambits started doing everything. Anyone else had this issue?

Yet another reason why I don't like this game, The story is enough of a chore to have the battles be boring as well. The things that can't happen automatically quickenings and summons are terrible so that's rarely an option

[Zeromus]

Well go fight yizamat without gambits and see how boring that is...gonna be pretty boring when you die 2 mins into the fight.

[Freya]

I actually let the game play itself sometimes. I think in the last fight against Dr. Cid I really didn't do ANYTHING at all. I didn't even control my leader.
...
And then I got myself some popcorn and watched the fight.
Seriously, I had much fun when playing the game, just because I didn't really have to fight. Sometimes fighting was just annoying me, especially when I just wanted to walk around and search for something. Then the Gambit system was very very useful.

Of course it's also pretty boring, particularly (!) in boss fights. But when you play the game for the second time, you KNOW how to use the Gambits. And then you basically don't need to control your leader anymore... So if you're bored by fighting, it's great.

I don't want to say that I didn't enjoy fighting. It would be pretty boring to play an RPG and not fight. But sometimes it was nice to let the game do the work. (And, as I said, I ate popcorn watching the fight and the scenes after the fight. That's killing two birds with one stone, if you ask me... ^^)

Oh and I needed pretty long to give my leader the perfect Gambits. Sometimes I wanted my party to fight without me always having to do something (Yiazmat *coughs* and watching TV while fighting it *COUGH!*) - and then my leader died and I didn't even recognize it. And then you need to escape, and do it again, and then he dies again, etc. etc. -_-
And I have to say that I didn't beat Yiazmat. I lost interest in fighting it after a while. So I stopped playing the game. ^^"

[phoenixfir3]

the main person in my group i like to control with no gambits on but the other two i have about 3 gambits on at all times that way they can heal when i dont notice my hp getting low and so they attack the one attacking me

[HUNK]

You know gambits only control you as much as you want them to.

I only use them for stuff I always forget to do. I like healing at the last minute...I always get my mind stuck in the whole, I can kill him with one more attack! Then, however, I usually die...(Same thing happened on FFVIII, when I fought Tonberry King, I assumed Tonberries can only attack one person at a time so if I n00b my limitbreaks over and over with all characters in critical I can win quickly. Junk. Phail. End)

Gambits could've save my life on FFVIII...
(PS: Just because I like gambits doesn't mean I'm "Not a true gammer". Don't ask why I say this, I forsee some douche saying that...)

[Kyreaan]

Gambits took over my two secondary party members, while my party leader was all me. I loved coming up with simple boosts like auto libra, auto bubble, auto protect and auto shell, and sometimes auto haste. Setting up Flying Enemies: Bio or some higher spell over Attack: Nearest I thought was just fun. Raise & Healing near the top just made it smooth.

How you're setting up your party members' gambits just shows what kind of gamer you are. I agree with Freya. I like to call it Auto Training. I could set Gambits when getting bored of an area and sit down and play another game at the same time. Ever try that?

[HUNK]

No I have not.

I know with my character levels and gambits, they won't die, provided I don't send them into stupid situations. I, unfortunately just don't trust them to survive...Perhaps I'm just not cut out for the gambit system.

I did think that setting up gambit chains were cool.
(Example: Foe weak against Fire: Oil, Foe with oil status: Firaga)

[Pete]

The thing that I liked about FFXII was that it was a free roaming system, but at the same time, I felt that the gambit system really took a lot of the thinking and strategy out of the battles. The only real maintenance would be to ensure that you had your latest/ highest spells and gambits selected/ purchased, and to adjust for enemy types. I knew my characters and had them dedicated to specific tasks, but it was kind of lame to watch two of them just go at it, while I plugged away with my main character.

I kind of enjoyed it at first, since it was a fresh breath of air compared to the typical ATB, but after just sitting back and doing literally nothing, I started to want the old system and the strategizing on the fly back.

[Dan558]

Well go fight yizamat without gambits and see how boring that is...gonna be pretty boring when you die 2 mins into the fight.

Yea, then the game is not only boring but badly designed as well (which it already is). They designed a very rigid system for the sake of a lackluster ability to reposition characters in battle and keep a 3 person team.

So they can move how they like but still have to arbitrarily wait to just slash at an enemy or just start to cast a spell? The game becomes a boring slow dance (and certainly not a creative strategy way) with the occasional attacking adding to the overall staleness to the game.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Yea, then the game is not only boring but badly designed as well (which it already is). They designed a very rigid system for the sake of a lackluster ability to reposition characters in battle and keep a 3 person team.

So they can move how they like but still have to arbitrarily wait to just slash at an enemy or just start to cast a spell? The game becomes a boring slow dance (and certainly not a creative strategy way) with the occasional attacking adding to the overall staleness to the game.

LOL

I agree.

I mean, why go against the game to create a challenge?
It's like playing FF8 without junctioning to give myself a challenge.
I had to switch my characters gambits once every 5 areas?
And the only other times I EVER changed my Gambits were to set up for MAJOR side-bosses as in Omega or Yazmat. I mean HellWyrm didn't even give me a challenge, literally. I watched half of Titanic and whenb I cam back, I won lol

I think the game devs could have done a little more to give a challenge.

As somebody already posted, inputing controls feels like a chore compared to other games.

Oh and, this game removes in general the control you have. The other games, you can... "magic-Type of magic, who to hit." with all tecs. This game, you set it up before hand and not do anything for about 3 hours.

[loaf]

I think the game devs could have done a little more to give a challenge.

As somebody already posted, inputing controls feels like a chore compared to other games.

Oh and, this game removes in general the control you have. The other games, you can... "magic-Type of magic, who to hit." with all tecs. This game, you set it up before hand and not do anything for about 3 hours.

You obviously didn't get what some of us said. Change your gambits to make the game harder. Try the game without gambits at all, NONE. Come back to me when you beat it.

[Angel of Iniquity]

You obviously didn't get what some of us said. Change your gambits to make the game harder. Try the game without gambits at all, NONE. Come back to me when you beat it.

And you OBVIOUSLY didn't get what I said when I was talking about ruining the battling point of the game.

Take away junctions and FF8 is harder, Take away Materia and FF7 is harder, take away Gambits and it is harder.
The **** kinda shit is that?
Ridden the games battling aspect to make it harder... Ooooooooooo



And why is F uck "*" and shit isn't? Both swears.
Oh and guess what smarty, already done it.
Was it harder? Duh.
How many times did I die? 000000000
If you know the game before you play it, playing challenges that is, then you know how to prepare for certain battles.
I didn't do the super hunts with this challenge, stupid and boring.
I did a 122333 challenge, and that was harder than no gambit.

[Dan558]

You obviously didn't get what some of us said. Change your gambits to make the game harder. Try the game without gambits at all, NONE. Come back to me when you beat it.

I don't think you get it. Its not that he dosn't understand that it is harder without gambits it's that the battle system is flawed with them and without them in different ways. When you take out gambits then the game is just annoying not challenging and when you play with gambits its boring because theres nothing to do.

Basically the point is the game was meant to be played with gambits but it ruins the play. Take them away the battles are still crap.

as a comparison FFXIII didn't have the best battle system either but at least the battles seemed to have an edge to them with quick movements and fast flashy attacks. The times when it didn't parade around and show each character paradigm shift individually battles were rarely slowly pacing staring at the enemy like FFXII battles are 80% of the time (the other 20% being swift unimpressive slashes, weak repetitive limit attacks or enemy attacks)

[Xanatos]

It's solely up to player in which manner will he set the gambits, bitching, and blaming the game for something you did, something you chose to do is ridiculous to say the least. Want more control over entire party, than goddamn it, set the goddamn gambits that way. Instead Dan558, and o0Odin0o chose the lazy path, characters do everything on their own, and they don't like it, well, if that is not your cup of tea than chose other flavor. Game doesn't play itself because it want's too, it's because you, the player, chose it that way, and yet somehow the game is one to blame.

o0Odin0o, I don't see how junction, and materia system can be in same sentence with gambits, after all gambits are there to set your AI behavior, while junction, and materia have direct influence on both current stats, and character growth. Throw gambits out game can still be played in same manner, this time though you have total control over your party, throw out junction, and matertia system and you have a cheap way to make the game harder than it already is, hope you see difference here. As for overall difficulty, I really don't need to mention how easy is to exploit both junction and materia system, thus making both games a laughing stock...

[Angel of Iniquity]

It's solely up to player in which manner will he set the gambits, bitching, and blaming the game for something you did, something you chose to do is ridiculous to say the least. Want more control over entire party, than goddamn it, set the goddamn gambits that way. Instead Dan558, and o0Odin0o chose the lazy path, characters do everything on their own, and they don't like it, well, if that is not your cup of tea than chose other flavor. Game doesn't play itself because it want's too, it's because you, the player, chose it that way, and yet somehow the game is one to blame.

o0Odin0o, I don't see how junction, and materia system can be in same sentence with gambits, after all gambits are there to set your AI behavior, while junction, and materia have direct influence on both current stats, and character growth. Throw gambits out game can still be played in same manner, this time though you have total control over your party, throw out junction, and matertia system and you have a cheap way to make the game harder than it already is, hope you see difference here. As for overall difficulty, I really don't need to mention how easy is to exploit both junction and materia system, thus making both games a laughing stock...

Well, I bring up Junction and Materia cause they both have a direct influence on the battling.
Not using Gambits is literally not using apart of the game for what it is worth.
Using your logic, then I should play Resident evil, any of them, with just a knife to increase it's difficulty cause using a handgun and shotgun, in which they are intended, are "lazy" guys ways.

[Kyreaan]

On a similiar note, what kinds of Gambit set-ups did each of you come up with?

[Angel of Iniquity]

On a similiar note, what kinds of Gambit set-ups did each of you come up with?

Last time I played it, is when i had my ps2, in 2008 I think.

But from what I remember.
This I think is what I used, not superbossing around

Ally any Phoenix down (Big thing right here, keep phoenix downs and save Mp)
Ally Hp 40%> Curaja (I think, this way, all characters get healed)
Self Hastega (Allys had team leader hastega. Obvious usage for the "ga")
Self Protectga (Same thing as mentioned above)
Ally Remedy (For the occasional side effects)
Closest enemy deshellga(forgot name of spell >.>)
Leader target attack (I chose targets manually cause the game didn't chose right)
Enemy flying Ardor (To quickly take out any buggers)
Self mp 10%< charge (If my mp is 10% or lower, it's worth it)

I had more, or less different gambits for different things.

If I new a strong monster was next, I switched my gambits to my Omicron protocol ^-^

Allot of monsters, then I quickly finished them, so I changed again

Training? I went to the henne mines and did the bat trick which required another change,

THere were more, or about 3 more strategies I used but, again, 3 years ago.

[Xanatos]

For God's sake, someone give me a chalk...

You have total control over your characters in Final Fantasy VIII, turning of the gambits would have same effect for Final Fantasy XII, thing is, you can still play the game in same manner which can't be said for Final Fantasy VIII. Thanks to gambits you have multiple options on your disposal, choosing one that fits you best is again solely up to you, it has nothing to do with difficulty, you complain about lack of control, and yet you're the one restricting yourself.

By your own logic I can kill a man, I have that option, and since it's there I have to do it. Final Fantasy XII can play itself if you chose so, on the other hand you can have control, again if you chose so, you're not restricted, the game itself gave you an option, it's up to you to chose your style...

[Angel of Iniquity]

For God's sake, someone give me a chalk...

You have total control over your characters in Final Fantasy VIII, turning of the gambits would have same effect for Final Fantasy XII, thing is, you can still play the game in same manner which can't be said for Final Fantasy VIII. Thanks to gambits you have multiple options on your disposal, choosing one that fits you best is again solely up to you, it has nothing to do with difficulty, you complain about lack of control, and yet you're the one restricting yourself.

By your own logic I can kill a man, I have that option, and since it's there I have to do it. Final Fantasy XII can play itself if you chose so, on the other hand you can have control, again if you chose so, you're not restricted, the game itself gave you an option, it's up to you to chose your style...

...>.>

No, actually, I have finally found a plausible... I will listen to what somebody just said and control myself o.o

No, you mistook it and took it Literally which I didn't imply.
If I took away the junctions, all I can do is attack, the junctions are there to use, the same with the gambits.
And how the hell is my logic suggesting real life murder? Your weird O.o

Anyways, I mean, while trying to clear this up, the gambits are their for you to use, why not use them to their potential?
I'm not going to inhibit the game design to make the game harder, IE no junction= harder game, which I got to adel and I keep dying.(no junction) >.>

There, I explained myself while not acting like a total ass ^-^

[Xanatos]

Let me get this straight, you willingly use gambits to their full potential, even though it may severely restrict your control over the characters...

On the other hand, there is an option to remove gambits, it may not necessarily make the game harder as it doesn't affect your character stats, or their development for that matter, thus can't be compared to junction and materia system (maybe armor and levels which have greater influence on difficulty), though it will give you the same experience, the same feel of control featured in earlier titles in franchise, which judging by several posts made by you is what you want, you know this, the game itself offers you this option yet you restrict yourself on purpose, and actually blame game for it ...you logic is mind bugling to say the least.

[Zargabaath]

Well, I bring up Junction and Materia cause they both have a direct influence on the battling.
Not using Gambits is literally not using apart of the game for what it is worth.
(

The difference though is without using gambits the characters can still use magic and the stats of the characters aren't affected by gambits either. Gambits are there to assist the player in the game since the battlefields in Final Fantasy XII can be more hectic and/or at least more dimensional. Taking

No, you mistook it and took it Literally which I didn't imply.
If I took away the junctions, all I can do is attack, the junctions are there to use, the same with the gambits.

Once again you could still attack without gambits, use magicks, & teckniks. Gambits aren't as integral to its respective game as the junction system is to Final Fantasy VIII. And just as the junctions are there to use - how much you junction is a choice - so is the amount of gambits used - how many characters will have gambits? how detailed will be the gambits? The Gambit system gives the player total control on how they want their characters to act through the Gambit AI or the player can turn off the gambits for 1 to all of their characters. As stated prior, the Gambits are there to assist the player manage the battlefield.

[Angel of Iniquity]

NO no no
You guys misunderstoooooood.
I brought up Junction pointing that it is there to use and not using it hinders gameplay.
And playing FF12 without gambits for party leader doesn't have the same feel as older ones.

[Zargabaath]

NO no no
You guys misunderstoooooood.
I brought up Junction pointing that it is there to use and not using it hinders gameplay.
And playing FF12 without gambits for party leader doesn't have the same feel as older ones.

And not using gambits does not hinder gameplay as much. Using Wait mode is a bit too slow and I could see that pressing "Square" to bring up the menu every time an action bar fills can be tedious, probably more tedious and hectic than using normally. But the player still has the ability to use magick, espers, & teckniks while without junctioning all there is in Final Fantasy VIII: Attack & Item (I believe).

At least I have never said playing without gambits for the party leader would feel like the older games, though the ATB is different from Turn-based. Active Dimension Battle is very much ATB with the ability to move around the battlefield. Gauges still fill up. Controlling the party leader does give the player more control & the game plays similar to a Star Ocean, a Tales of, or Rogue Galaxy game(s); people don't complain with those games. Yes I can foresee complaints that Final Fantasy isn't supposed to be like those games. However without any change to the series there would have always been elemental crystals and turn-based combat. The series can also be inspired or take from another source; Final Fantasy & Final Fantasy II had things in them from Hayao Miyazaki's films (Laputa: Castle in the Sky & Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind). Though in the case of gambits and gameplay, Final Fantasy XII wasn't inspired by those games I listed but by American Football.