Xbox/ 360 RPG's

[Gun_blade]

I'm getting an Xbox 360 soon after never owning a Microsoft console so i'm just wondering what RPG's you'd reccomend for the original Xbox and of course the 360.

Fable and KOTR 1 & 2 are on my list as i've never got round to completing them on the PC.

Oblivion is an obvious one but i'm talking more traditional, turn based FF-esque RPG's. Blue Dragon looks pretty average but appealing at the same time.

[Leksandar]

You can safely skip Fable and go straight for the sequel as there is really no necessary continuity; just the same thing executed another time with better technology and more experience. As for the Knights of the Old Republic games I'm not so sure about the second one, but at least the first one is one of the better roleplaying experiences out there. Once you finish those you should also check out Mass Effect which to me might very well be the game I've enjoyed the most hitherto this generation. You should also get Fallout 3 rather than Oblivion as Oblivion isn't particulary well optimized for the console, and it's really the same thing anyway - just with guns and a less colourful palette.

As for JRPGs you should definently check out Lost Odyssey first as it could safely have gotten away as a part of the Final Fantasy series with Sakaguchi directing, Uematsu music and a more mature tone as opposed to Blue Dragon which I personally found to be quite dull. I mean, on its own terms it functions flawlessly, but there's really nothing remarkable about it. Other than that you should do fine with anything as long as you stay the heck away from Eternal Sonata and its inhumane dungeon designs.

Good luck.

[Tiffany]

I wouldn't personally classify Lost Odyssey as a "JRPG", they hired all the talent from Square Enix to make it. It was fantastic, BTW. Loved it!!!

I would put The Last Remnant as more of a JRPG. The battle system takes some getting used to, but once I got the idea of it, it was GREAT!!! Loved that game too.

Borderlands is like FPS/RPG-ish. I normally dislike FPS's but I'm totally obsessed with Borderlands atm. You can pick your character then as you level up you assign points to your Skill Tree and kind of mold how you want your character to evolve.

Mass Effect is a 3rd Person Shooter, but had an amazing story and you can totally choose how you want your character to interact/behave.

Fable II is another great one, although the couch co-op sucked. Hated not being able to roam further than a few feet away from your co-op partner.

[Leksandar]

Lost Odyssey isn't a Japanese roleplaying game? What.

[Gun_blade]

I'll definitely get Lost Odyssey, just looked at a few write ups and it looks exactly my cup of tea.

[Tiffany]

I find JRPG's a little more uh, emo... if that makes any sense. Like The Last Remnant.

[loaf]

Mass Effect isn't a shooter actually, many people think it is, but it's actually the same dice rolling game as KOTOR and Dragon Age Origins are.

I heard Blue Dragon wasn't that good. And what everyone else said.

[Tiffany]

Mass Effect isn't a shooter actually, many people think it is, but it's actually the same dice rolling game as KOTOR and Dragon Age Origins are.

I heard Blue Dragon wasn't that good. And what everyone else said.

I think that BioWare did both Mass Effect, and KOTOR... makes sense that they are similar.

Garrus was awesome, btw. Jus' felt like throwing that out there.

[loaf]

I never played Mass Effect yet but I thought it was 3rd person style shooter too.

[Tiffany]

I don't see how it isn't a shooter type game, tbh. I mean the entire game you're aiming the crosshairs of your equipped gun at enemies, and shooting at them to whittle down their life meters. Truly IMO, the only difference between Borderlands and Mass Effect is that in Mass Effect you actually SEE your person draw the gun and aim it, where in Borderlands you just see the gun you're carrying.

It definitely has RPG elements to it too though, you can go between being a Paragon or a Renegade. You can choose what type of weapons you'd rather use, we were always a fan of the biotics. I also liked that when you selected your response, it didn't actually say what you selected, but a variant of it. I think Wikipedia gives a good reference to it, where if you select "Don't worry about it" then Shepard will say "You worry too much" or something like that. Made you actually want to listen to the story.

I think BioWare tried to tout it as being an "Action-RPG" but in my books if you're packing a gun and aiming crosshairs at people, you're playing a shooter. Either way, I'd highly highly highly recommend the game. It was friggin' awesome.

[loaf]

Oh I know what you mean Tiff about the Shooter feel with the crosshairs and all.

[Inagi]

Enchanted Arms is great. It's got a very unique battle system, but remains true to turn based battling. I rented it and was addicted, it should be pretty cheap now, too.

[Leksandar]

I find JRPG's a little more uh, emo... if that makes any sense. Like The Last Remnant.

I don't mind you having a personal definition on the genre, but I personally found Lost Odyssey to be one of the angstiest I'd ever played. I mean, you spend half the game reading sad stories about people suffering sad things, and there's like sentimental music everywhere, characters you care about dying, and a main character that makes Squall seem extroverted in comparison. But oh well. Maybe we have differing definitions on what an emo game is as well.

As for Mass Effect, I have to agree with you. It's a shooter. But then again it's stuffed with RPG elements and also has the pacing of one, so I believe someone into RPGs is more likely to like the game than someone into shooters. As for the dicerolling Loaf mentioned, I'm pretty sure he's mistaken as not even Dragon Age uses the system anymore. I think the last game that Bioware actually based on board game rules was Knights of the Old Republic, though I haven't played Jade Empire so I'm not sure.

And apropos RPGs, I believe I just leveled up in nitpicking.

[Jin]

Mass Effect is not a shooter. Come on guys. Fallout 3 is more of a shooter than Mass Effect and that's still not a shooter. Having a gun that you point at things doesn't make a game a shooter. By that logic, Valkyria Chronicles is a shooter and the Tales games are akin to Devil May Cry. Mass Effect is an action RPG.

And they still do use dice rolling. Just not a D20 inspired system. All RPGs use virtual dice rolls. That's what makes them RPGs, because they use stats and probability to determine character strength and the outcome of attacks.

Also, why is angst always used as a pejorative? How boring would a story be without some sort of angst? Angst does not always mean petty, teenage angst.

[Tiffany]

Mass Effect is not a shooter. Come on guys. Fallout 3 is more of a shooter than Mass Effect and that's still not a shooter. Having a gun that you point at things doesn't make a game a shooter. By that logic, Valkyria Chronicles is a shooter and the Tales games are akin to Devil May Cry. Mass Effect is an action RPG.

And they still do use dice rolling. Just not a D20 inspired system. All RPGs use virtual dice rolls. That's what makes them RPGs, because they use stats and probability to determine character strength and the outcome of attacks.

Also, why is angst always used as a pejorative? How boring would a story be without some sort of angst? Angst does not always mean petty, teenage angst.

Well, then maybe by MY logic, Valkyria Chronicals is a shooter. Its just my perception. Whatev.

There's angst done well, and then angst done very badly. You can't tell me that every angsty-related storyline in a game has been interesting. Some of it gets old, really fast.

You can have (IMO) well done angst, like in Fallout 3 where it sucks that your Mom died giving birth to you, but you kind of move on. Then there's emo angst like in FFVIII's Squall. As much as I loved the game the "....." when he was asked something got very annoying.

Although the difference between ACTION RPGs *cough* ( ) and regular RPGs?

[Leksandar]

Mass Effect is not a shooter. Come on guys. Fallout 3 is more of a shooter than Mass Effect and that's still not a shooter. Having a gun that you point at things doesn't make a game a shooter. By that logic, Valkyria Chronicles is a shooter and the Tales games are akin to Devil May Cry. Mass Effect is an action RPG.

Also, why is angst always used as a pejorative? How boring would a story be without some sort of angst? Angst does not always mean petty, teenage angst.

I defined it as a shooter based on the premises of what Tiffany had already defined the genre as, having the fact that I read in an interview that Bioware had gotten rid of the aspect of level having any effect on your in aim in the second game in the back of my head. Yet I still disagree with you. Mostly because you seem kind of angry. Valkyria Chronicle is not a shooter by this logic as you have no direct control over the actual shooting. You just go wherever you want, target, and command the character to attack whereupon you're displayed an animation of the character shooting for you. In addition to that the core challenge in the fighting doesn't come from aiming and thinking fast like in Mass Effect and for example Gears of War, but rather from planning. But then again. Who cares. Genres are just evil markting tools anyway.

And they still do use dice rolling. Just not a D20 inspired system. All RPGs use virtual dice rolls. That's what makes them RPGs, because they use stats and probability to determine character strength and the outcome of attacks.

But I don't think that was what Loaf was refering to. On second thought, he might have been. In that case I agree with you.

And who is using angsty as a pejorative?

[Jin]

There's angst done well, and then angst done very badly. You can't tell me that every angsty-related storyline in a game has been interesting. Some of it gets old, really fast.

And who is using angsty as a pejorative?

To answer both of you at the same time: what I said was more in response to other posts that weren't even in this thread; you both just made me think about it. There's a trend these days that any story even remotely angsty or, god forbid, "emo" (I hate this term in general), is dismissed as being childish and whiney for no particular reason. This usually goes hand and hand with the Xbox Live (and PSN) homophobic crowd that has some retarded sense of what's manly and anything that's a deviation is ridiculed as being "gay" or "emo" (or both). It pisses me off as I think angst is necessary in a story for it to be good. And you're right, Tiff, there are good angsts and bad angsts, but the problem I have is that it doesn't matter what kind of angst is being expressed, this crowd will attack it regardless.
/rant

Yet I still disagree with you. Mostly because you seem kind of angry.

That's a silly reason to disagree with someone. Though I'm not angry, that's just how I type.

Valkyria Chronicle is not a shooter by this logic as you have no direct control over the actual shooting. You just go wherever you want, target, and command the character to attack whereupon you're displayed an animation of the character shooting for you.

But you do have control over the shooting. You're still aiming and pressing the fire button when you attack. Your ability to hit is still designated by a ring of possible hit locations, the same as it is in Mass Effect. The only difference is that the animation happens after the fact in Valkyria Chronicles. The same background statistics are going on in mass effect. Your attack compared to their defense, the damage you do in relation to their health, it's all happening the same way. It's just happening in real time. I will happily concede that Mass Effect incorporates some elements from shooters, but it's first and foremost an RPG all the same.

Genres are just evil markting tools anyway.

That's why I like them.

Although the difference between ACTION RPGs *cough* ( ) and regular RPGs?

Action.

Action RPGs take place in real time and require you to actually use attacks the way you would in action games instead of simply selecting them from a menu. Fable, for example, is an action RPG while Final Fantasy games are not.

[Leksandar]

The way you put your comment about angst made me perceive it as if you were criticizing me. I was probably just tired and paranoid, but now seeing what you actually meant, I can do nothing but agree.

My strange motivation for disagreeing can be explained as well. As nobody ever means anything out of thin air every claim is in some or another way understandable and thus agreeable. With that logic in mind it's impossible to defend any thought or idea making discussions impossible. This becomes a problem when faced with the fact that discussions is one of the best ways for at least me to gain insight in things. If I'm thus ever intrigued by anything, I simply make up silly reasons for disagreeing with people.

Building further on the stance I've been trying to upheld, you still have to think in a fundamentally different way when playing Mass Effect or Gears of War as opposed to Valkyria Chronicles. Yet I have to admit that my arguments are running thin. Insisting that a game that has such a massive focus on letting you take the role as someone else isn't a RPG is beginning to get tiresome.

[Jin]

The way you put your comment about angst made me perceive it as if you were criticizing me. I was probably just tired and paranoid, but now seeing what you actually meant, I can do nothing but agree.

That was probably more my bad for spouting off without contextualizing it.

My strange motivation for disagreeing can be explained as well. As nobody ever means anything out of thin air every claim is in some or another way understandable and thus agreeable. With that logic in mind it's impossible to defend any thought or idea making discussions impossible. This becomes a problem when faced with the fact that discussions is one of the best ways for at least me to gain insight in things. If I'm thus ever intrigued by anything, I simply make up silly reasons for disagreeing with people.

Haha, I like you.

Building further on the stance I've been trying to upheld, you still have to think in a fundamentally different way when playing Mass Effect or Gears of War as opposed to Valkyria Chronicles. Yet I have to admit that my arguments are running thin. Insisting that a game that has such a massive focus on letting you take the role as someone else isn't a RPG is beginning to get tiresome.

When it comes down to it, at least for me, I feel that the fundamental difference in thinking that you mention between playing Gears of War and Mass Effect is far greater than the difference in thinking between the latter and Valkyria Chronicles. But maybe that's just me.

[rodrick]

I would put The Last Remnant as more of a JRPG. The battle system takes some getting used to, but once I got the idea of it, it was GREAT!!! Loved that game too.

[Kindushin]

Yeah, the Last Remnant is definitely one of the better console JRPGs out there, even if the battle system is a bit weird.

As for other RPGs, i would recommend Star Ocean 4 and just skipping Fable and moving on to Fable 2.

[Jin]

If that's true, its Metacritic aggregate score of 66 pretty much confirms that the JRPG genre is in a rut.

[Musashiden]

If that's true, its Metacritic aggregate score of 66 pretty much confirms that the JRPG genre is in a rut.

I think the genre died a couple of days after the world map disappeared. I always found one of the defining factors of JRPGs to be a concise manageable world map that serves as both an early on and late-game level grinding area. I dunno, maybe I'm just an old-school addict. I think that's why Tales of Vesperia endeared itself to me so quickly.

Speaking of which, that's certainly a good JRPG to snag for the 360, Tales of Vesperia.