Square just a business?

[Robbo]

I was looking at a gamespot forum and it said why not Release Duodecim on PS3 and release newer characters as Add-ons and the obvious answer for this is that If Square release 3 games adding 2 characters on in the sequels they will make more money rather than releasing them as Add-ons.

The thing that was really on my mind whilst posting this is that are Square going for the masses or RPG quality. It's no secret that Shooters are probably the most played Genre and Final fantasy XIII seemed to focus more on the battle system as they completely re-designed it making the gameplay faster.

Lastly would it be smarter for Square to look on a forum such as this for future game ideas or look at better selling previous versions of the game. I would say most people in this Forum prefer the more classic versions of the Final Fantasy and were pleased that IX was kind of going back to FF roots. Whereas FFXIII went back to the Futuristic design of VII and VIII and these were the most sold FF's (right) so what do you guys think?

[Treize]

I believe that Square Enix is just a company and does many things just to make a profit. There are several examples of them doing things just to make money. Look at the numerous remakes that they keep spitting out. Does Final Fantasy IV really need to be on the SNES, Playstation, GBA, DS, and PSP? (With the sequel on cell phones (in Japan) and the Wii) They also have come up with several half-baked sequels to games for fan service. I haven't read much on the dissidia sequel, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is quite similar to the first one with just minor enough differences to make it sell. <_<

Obviously, Square Enix is designing their games to make them more appealing to the masses. I don't really mind this to an extent because it is quite costly to produce a high quality RPG now-a-days, and if it doesn't sell well, the company would go out of business quite quickly. However, if it becomes too mainstream, I think it looses its originality and ruins it for more of the hardcore fans.

Also, I don't think that Square Enix should look at a forum such as this one. Unfortunately most of the sales don't really come from the hardcore fans. I'm sure most of us would love more of a classic Final Fantasy game, but in order to sell well, Square Enix probably has to keep more with the times. I would say that those games really aren't in as much demand anymore when more advanced and more flashy ways of doing things are conceivable of producing.

I think more of the truly hardcore fans that love earlier Final Fantasy games are out of luck. I know, at least for me, it's getting hard to follow a series when the last game I really loved was made nearly ten years ago... (Am I still on track? )

[Zargabaath]

I think I can easily summarize why people wanted Dissidia and want Duodecim for the PS3: graphics. Which is sad because graphics are not the most important feature & hardly ever. It does seem that a portion of the gaming community focus too much on graphics.

I'm assuming that you used a spontaneous example when you said, "if they release 3 games adding 2 characters..." because we can at least say that we will be getting more than 2 in Duodecim, a world map feature, & Assist mode so far. I would say one feature that should have been implemented in Duodecim was a better multiplayer system besides Ad-hoc, but I see this geared more towards their Japanese consumers. Tightly packed country which increases odds of coming across another player.

From the news articles I've read about Final Fantasy XIII I would say that at least that game was geared more so for the masses - in the west - than previous FFs though the story and characters they used are not as appealing to the west. We can never be sure but I like to believe that they don't purposively try to make a crappy game; sure some of their design choices can be odd, interesting, or bad. Which is why I would like some information from the development team to get their take on why.

Forums are a place to get some consumer feedback, but forums are of a small sample size - well at least I would say a small sample size. A thousand member survey tends to average. On the other hand I would say that the director & dev. team should set out to create what they envisioned and not comprise or try to limit any comprise from their higher-ups and fanbase.

Trieze, I know what you mean about Final Fantasy IV; Final Fantasy V needs to be updated on the PSP.

No for the PS3!! We must have the graphics!!!!!!!! Though a PS3 quality Gilgamesh would be good.

[Meier Link]

I think I can easily summarize why people wanted Dissidia and want Duodecim for the PS3: graphics. Which is sad because graphics are not the most important feature & hardly ever. It does seem that a portion of the gaming community focus too much on graphics.

Or it could be the fact that some of us do not own a PSP and have no intentions of buying one and just want to be able to play a ported title on the PS3. Thats just me though. Already owning one Sony product that is superb makes it kind of hard to dish out the money for a PSP when there is only 3-4 titles that I want to actually play.

Back on topic. Square is DEAD. That is a simple fact. Square died the day the merger went through with Enix. Hence the move over from Squaresoft to SquareEnix.

Square as most of us knows it has been dead for around 10 years now.

Now on to being really on topic; SE is definantly a company now. Now doubts about it. SE is about profit.

Take XIV for example, they released a game before fully beta testing it and even in the beta that they put out they didn't listen to the negative responses.

FFVII DoC: could of been epic if they had not worried about trying to make a profit and more on game play, less linear story line and over all replayability.

In the end they chose to pump out something that would be profitable knowing the FFAC was coming up and trying to get new and old players of VII pumped about AC.

Then again, I can flip the coin and call us sheep. We linger on the fact that we hope that the next release will be the next epic game like some of the games of yore.

MQ had more potential then XIII, there I said it. Sad thing is I picked up XIII and only have 6 hours logged to XIII and I can comfortably say that. As sad as that seems.

[Pete]

To me, Square really became a joke after FFXI. That was really the biggest disappointment in my eyes, since it appeared that they went the WoW route of sucking people in and just taking their money on a monthly basis. That, and I wasn't doing any gaming online, so XI was useless to me regardless. For the first time, Square had effectively alienated me as a gamer, and that bothered me. Combine that with the fact that I wasn't a fan of X, or XII, and to me, that's three strikes.

With all of the FFVII titles, books, movies and reincarnations, it only seems to further hammer the point that Square has lost sight of what really matters, has become far too profit driven. I refuse to shell out money for a PSP so I can play the prequel. That game was fully explained to me in the 5 minute cutscene in Shinra Mansion (as well as when Tifa rescues Cloud from Lifestream), and it was all I needed to know on the matter. Zack died, Cloud picked up his sword and started to tell the world he had lived Zack's life. Genesis or any of those other characters invented for a new game have any bearing on the original FFVII story. They were just invented, because without them, there's really no point to making a whole new game. To me, that's atrocious; completely inventing a new canon to the story, and then making sure everyone not involved in VII, dies, so there are no loose ends. What's the point?

Also, with AC, what was the point? All it did was show off how flashy the graphics could get, as well as provide voices for the characters that we'd already given voices to. Nobody needed to know that Sephiroth's left nut was stored in a thermos and he was going to be cloned by another three goofballs that nobody had ever heard of. But yeah, it was a very pretty film. I'll give it that. It didn't do anything for me otherwise.

I can understand how X and XII were hit or miss, since many people love them, but they don't have that charm that the older games, especially IV and VI had. There's a much stiffer and stodgy feel to the newer games, where the characters seem much more pigeon-holed and typecast than unique and real, or to even have that good ole Final Fantasy lighthearted feeling to them.

I still haven't picked up XIII, and I have no intention to. I really have no desire to play any FF games after IX, since that's really the last fun one I remember playing. The sad thing is that I wouldn't even know what to say to recommend fixing the series and making the games like they used to be. They do have to realize that when dealing with the Final Fantasy series, they should try to be just that. They're just trying to keep up with the Jonses now, in terms of making a fun and quick paced RPG... instead of doing it's own thing and being known for insane quality and a truly enjoyable experience. Unfortunately, that's not the way of the world anymore. They're clearly being told by your average retard what game to make, and they're pandering to the consumer, instead of putting out the game that they had envisioned, and letting the consumers who want it, buy it.

[Zargabaath]

Or it could be the fact that some of us do not own a PSP and have no intentions of buying one and just want to be able to play a ported title on the PS3. Thats just me though. Already owning one Sony product that is superb makes it kind of hard to dish out the money for a PSP when there is only 3-4 titles that I want to actually play.

More PSPs have been bought in each region [US/Canada, Japan, & Europe/Other] than PS3s, so they are going with the system that may have a bigger base. I say "may have" because some of those purchases could be repeat buyers but the same could be applied toward the PS3. Dissidia is downloadable via the PN so it can be played on the PS3 & I expect Duodecim to follow the same route. It still could be played with other players via ad-hoc but a PS3 isn't mobile hence why I said they should incorporate a better multi-player system.

As for SE going with the PSP because of the bigger base, I doubt they solely, if it had any factor, chose the PSP because it could yield more money but because Japan is a nation geared towards handhelds. Consoles aren't the hot thing over there.

Back on topic. Square is DEAD. That is a simple fact. Square died the day the merger went through with Enix. Hence the move over from Squaresoft to SquareEnix.

Square as most of us knows it has been dead for around 10 years now.

Perhaps it wasn't the merger that killed the old Square but the departures or promotion of certain members. I included promotions because the last game Kitase directed was FFVIII, for example.

Now on to being really on topic; SE is definantly a company now. Now doubts about it. SE is about profit.

I think all companies care & are about profit. Otherwise they are no longer in business & who wants to fail? Who wants to be out of a job, unless they are well-off and don't need the money? There is a balance between understanding their consumer-base and what they want to make. Perhaps a good example from SE would be Unlimited Saga. I would think they made the game as they wanted and it was panned by the west. Though SaGa games have always been more receptive in Japan, including Unlimited Saga, than in the west. A dozen or so releases like U.Saga the west may not have wanted anymore games from SE. Then we wouldn't be getting any games. Balance.

To me, Square really became a joke after FFXI. That was really the biggest disappointment in my eyes, since it appeared that they went the WoW route of sucking people in and just taking their money on a monthly basis.

For clarification: are you saying that Square went the MMO route or that they were influenced by WoW?

With all of the FFVII titles, books, movies and reincarnations, it only seems to further hammer the point that Square has lost sight of what really matters, has become far too profit driven. That game was fully explained to me in the 5 minute cutscene in Shinra Mansion (as well as when Tifa rescues Cloud from Lifestream), and it was all I needed to know on the matter. They were just invented, because without them, there's really no point to making a whole new game. To me, that's atrocious; completely inventing a new canon to the story, and then making sure everyone not involved in VII, dies, so there are no loose ends. What's the point?

As we know people have been clamoring for a FFVII remake for some time. That game is one of Square's most popular games so instead of remaking it they decided to fill out the story of that world. There are people who want to know what happened after FFVII or what about before the events of the game? So they expanded the FFVII universe.

From my perspective, Crisis Core and DoC make the Sephiroth and the event Final Fantasy VII a side-story. Genesis was the main villian in CC & the secret ending of DoC Genesis awakens and tells the incapacitated Weiss that they are not yet done with their work. Unless wants to leave that hanging, their is going to be another release in the FFVII universe.

[Victoria]

Actually PSP games that are downloaded on PSN, can't be played on the PS3. Only on the PSP. That's why you use the USB adapter provided to hook up the PSP to transfer it over.

Kinda lame, but yeah. That, and you can also access the PSN store from the PSP, which is probably why they have PSP games downloadable.

Oh, and yeah, it's definite that SE is just a business nowadays. It's not really a surprise, but I didn't particularly like SE going the MMO route either.

[Pete]

Oh I meant that Square was going the MMO route. I can't really say with any certainty if they were trying to emulate WoW or were influenced by it. The end result just seems to be a less successful version of it though.

And I can totally understand why Square would keep producing FFVII games, since there is indeed a demand for the world of FFVII. I understand it being the most popular in the series, but I'd rather see the team put that much more effort into developing a new and genuinely fun gaming experience, all around, instead of just feeding into the monster that FFVII has become.

Personally, I thought the game was concise and ended well enough. The bad guy dies, the world is saved, everyone goes home happy.

I'd also rather see the remake of FFVI, which was scrapped while the N64 was still dominant, instead of ports, or ports with an extra boss, weapon or dungeon.