Cloud Versus Squall

[Heartless Angel]

Though I much prefer Squall as a protagonist, to be perfectly honest, he wouldn't stand a chance against Cloud. Squall's just a normal dude with some combat skills. Cloud's a genetically enhanced, mako infused super soldier. Cloud definitely wins in raw physical strength and endurance. You an say a gunblade requires alot of skill to use, sure. But really, what sounds more complicated to you, a sword which you hold a bit differently and have to pull a trigger on to optimize damage, or a sword which contains like, 8 different swords, which you have to learn to assemble, disassemble, and reassemble in the middle of combat, and can pretty much freely shift to dual wielding with other seperated weapons ready to switch to at a moments notice. I mean seriously, Tsurugi is like, the most complicated sword ever concieved, yet Cloud's mastered it. Cloud defies the laws of physics all the time with his attacks. In terms of sheer close combat skill, Squall doesn't even come close.

If summons were canon, they couldn't even use them, considering their blast radius alone would annihilate both combatants and most surrounding cities. Even if that weren't the case, their destructive power doesn't really matter. A teraflare from Bahamut ZERO's going to reduce a body to ashes just as efficiently as Eden, it just won't rape as many continents in the process.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Though I much prefer Squall as a protagonist, to be perfectly honest, he wouldn't stand a chance against Cloud. Squall's just a normal dude with some combat skills. Cloud's a genetically enhanced, mako infused super soldier. Cloud definitely wins in raw physical strength and endurance. You an say a gunblade requires alot of skill to use, sure. But really, what sounds more complicated to you, a sword which you hold a bit differently and have to pull a trigger on to optimize damage, or a sword which contains like, 8 different swords, which you have to learn to assemble, disassemble, and reassemble in the middle of combat, and can pretty much freely shift to dual wielding with other seperated weapons ready to switch to at a moments notice. I mean seriously, Tsurugi is like, the most complicated sword ever concieved, yet Cloud's mastered it. Cloud defies the laws of physics all the time with his attacks. In terms of sheer close combat skill, Squall doesn't even come close.

If summons were canon, they couldn't even use them, considering their blast radius alone would annihilate both combatants and most surrounding cities. Even if that weren't the case, their destructive power doesn't really matter. A teraflare from Bahamut ZERO's going to reduce a body to ashes just as efficiently as Eden, it just won't rape as many continents in the process.

Hehehehe.
Well you forgot one major thing. Junction.
That alone makes up for his supernatural disadvantage.
Now for his physics. He displayed a great amount of agility when he jump several meters into the air in the galbadia prison while Selphie and Quistis took the stairs.

Advent children I don't except here because they added a plethora of techs.
If FF8 had the same treatment, the same would have happened*points to dissidia*.

I would say Cloud has the advantage naturally in endurance. He fell from that plate thingy and survived while squall got pierced and got hurt severely.

[Heartless Angel]

Junction is the only reason Squall has any stats to speak of at all. They're the only thing that even allows him to compete with Cloud. The above psot WAS considering Squall with junctions. They're not anything unusual or extrordinary in the VIII universe, lots of people use em. They're no more unique than materia in VII. They don't infuse Squall wth any magical gravity defying techniques, absurd skill, or enhanced physical state. Canonically speaking, all they really do for you is allow use of magic and self enhancement from magic. Squall would need that just to not die 5 seconds into the fight.

Like it or not, AC is canon. Only thing Cloud did in AC that he couldn't in the game was flying periodically during the Seph battle. And he really wouldn't need to fly to kick the crap out of Squall.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Junction is the only reason Squall has any stats to speak of at all. They're the only thing that even allows him to compete with Cloud. The above psot WAS considering Squall with junctions. They're not anything unusual or extrordinary in the VIII universe, lots of people use em. They're no more unique than materia in VII. They don't infuse Squall wth any magical gravity defying techniques, absurd skill, or enhanced physical state. Canonically speaking, all they really do for you is allow use of magic and self enhancement from magic. Squall would need that just to not die 5 seconds into the fight.

Like it or not, AC is canon. Only thing Cloud did in AC that he couldn't in the game was flying periodically during the Seph battle. And he really wouldn't need to fly to kick the crap out of Squall.

"The Junction System is a device that allows the user to replicate the powers of a Sorceress via the storage and control of magical powers and Guardian Forces. The system itself is capable of storing 32 different forms of Para-Magic with a stock of 100 units of each form. The system acts as a type of filter, filtering out magic (known as Drawing) from a being or entity and storing it ready to be used or junctioned by the user. This allows the user to possess near superhuman abilities such as increased speed and strength as well as being able to use magic as a weapon. Various Junction Systems are seen in wide use in the military forces, particularly in SeeD."

Yep, they didn't show it in game for reasons unknown, perhaps they wanted him not to be portrayed as hyper powered?
I know it is cannon, but as I said, this discussion is not with the movie as they over powered in in that. You can't go against that, he is over powered in AC.

Now, let me try to use criticle thinking.

What does junctioning do? Increase stats correct? Now, when I were to increase evasion to 80%, that means most physical attacks would miss. Meaning he should be able to see 80% of attacks before they hit.

Now, his defense. If I were to increase his defens to 190, almost all attacks do nothing, about 400 at the max, meaning he has near invulnerability.
Same with speed. Mix that with auto-haste, and you have somebody who can attack beyond our comprehension.

Junction does give a hyper powered increase, they just mixed it well.

[Heartless Angel]

The powers of a sorceress are... magic and self enhancement via magic, so yeah, pretty much what I said lol.

All the canon benefits of the junction system are pretty much the same thing as Materia. Materia increases stats and enables the use of magic and abilities in pretty much the same way. Their tools and enhancements are equal as far as we know. What is not equal are the wielders. Independant of Materia, Cloud is still a magic infused super soldier with ridiculous strength, endurance, speed, and combat experience. Independant of Junctions, Squall is a guy with a sword and combat experience.

Game mechanics aren't really an applicable argument, unless you just wanted to know who'd win based on that alone, in which case either Lightning or Tidus would kick the crap out of either of them.

[Angel of Iniquity]

The powers of a sorceress are... magic and self enhancement via magic, so yeah, pretty much what I said lol.

All the canon benefits of the junction system are pretty much the same thing as Materia. Materia increases stats and enables the use of magic and abilities in pretty much the same way. Their tools and enhancements are equal as far as we know. What is not equal are the wielders. Independant of Materia, Cloud is still a magic infused super soldier with ridiculous strength, endurance, speed, and combat experience. Independant of Junctions, Squall is a guy with a sword and combat experience.

Game mechanics aren't really an applicable argument, unless you just wanted to know who'd win based on that alone, in which case either Lightning or Tidus would kick the crap out of either of them.

One could argue that his magic alone are significant enough to ensure a victory.

Anyways, from what the Ultimania said, it seems that Junction can do allot more than what is shown in games, which literally leaves us at a current stand still. I mean hell, I doubt that he can't use an Item unless he has Ifrit or shiva lol.

Oh and, FF8 magic wins most others.

[Heartless Angel]

They both have access to pretty much the same spells. Outside of game mechanics, there's no real basis to argue that ones magic is greater than the other.

Arguing about game mechanics and the tools made available to the fighters may lead to a dead end, but arguing between the characters themselves with only their own powers leads to a pretty clear victor.