Button masher

[JuzamDjinn]

When I talk about video games with friends of mine(we all like Final Fantasy), we always bash 'button masher' fighting games.

But I was thinking, there really isn't anything to the battle systems of Final Fantasy games as long as you grind just enough to out level the next boss.

Is this so different from button mashing? It seems, we convince ourselves there is stragegy, but all it comes down to is being a higher level than the enemies.


(I can't speak for the Tactics games or 11,13, or 14, I've never played them)

[loaf]

You need to button mash in FF?

Button Mashing is playing a fighting game and pressing random commands and hope you win.

Only "button mashing" you can do in FF would be to spam X or O or whatever the Action button is....which isn't mashing.

Here is a new idea. Don't grind in a Final Fantasy game? I don't grind at all in any FF game I reply...why? well it makes the bosses harder. What's the fun in a boss if I steam roll it in 2 minutes. It's way more fun steam rolling the boss when you have a disadvantage and still do it in 2 minutes.

[Zargabaath]

.

Is this so different from button mashing? It seems, we convince ourselves there is stragegy, but all it comes down to is being a higher level than the enemies.

I'll second Loaf's notion that the only button-mashing in FF could be spamming the "action"/"confirm" button just for "attack"/"fight". Which is pretty much what happens normally during a normal playthrough of most, if not all, of the Final Fantasies. This is also the problem with a lot of JRPGs, press confirm to attack. It's what FFXII streamlined and some people had problems with, though the extent of gambits used is up to the player.

Are most FFs simple? Yeah. So then what makes pressing "confirm" to attack over and over again so necessary?

There isn't much to most RPG battle systems with just level grinding unless character progression is unique that negate level grinding. The thing is, it is once again up to the player how much or little they "level grind". If playing a FF normally (i.e., w/o level grinding) there is strategy and there definitely is strategy when the player "handicaps" themselves with low-level or some other type of run through the game.

[JuzamDjinn]

I don't grind at all in any FF game I reply...why? well it makes the bosses harder. What's the fun in a boss if I steam roll it in 2 minutes. It's way more fun steam rolling the boss when you have a disadvantage and still do it in 2 minutes.

You must be a skilled video game player, I respect you.

..but what I meant, I was comparing the simplicity of the final fantasy battle system to the simplistic nature of button mashing. I'm aware that there are "challenges", but I'm just wondering about everyones thoughts considering how many people bash "button mashers" when the skill required isn't all that much less than other popular forms of gaming.

[loaf]

One is a simple battle system, Select Fight/Attack, one is a simple way to play a game that requires you to have precise timing. IE button mashing in Marvel vs Capcom.

IMO, nothing similar.

[Zargabaath]

I would say the only RPGs that can have some level of "button mashing" would be action-oriented RPGs such as: Tales of, Star Ocean, Kingdom Hearts, Rogue Galaxy, etc. but even in those games there are certain limitations used like: character only able to stream 3 attacks before breaking, Star Ocean 3 and Rogue Galaxy with some sort of "endurance" gauge. The player could still button mash but it wouldn't get in extra attacks.

[JuzamDjinn]

I don't think you two are getting it.

[loaf]

Well it would be a problem that I have had to read each of your posts 10 times or more before I reply because you can't explain what exactly you want.

So reading you first post AGAIN. You want to compare grinding out levels in Final Fantasy to button mashing in a fighting game? I answered that in my 2nd post.

IMO, nothing similar.

Why? Lets compare grinding out a ton of levels to button mashing in lets say Marvel vs Capcom 2.

You grind grind grind grind, attempt the boss, easily defeat it.

Let say you are playing MvC2, and you have your team, you have it set to Hard. You button mash and button mash and button mash...and nothing, you lose. Because you failed to actually pull off a combo, a special move or an Ultra Move.


Button Mashing = I don't know how to play the game so I mash buttons.

Grinding in FF? = I couldn't beat this boss, so instead of rethinking of strategy, I'm going to just grind 5 levels and own him.

[Trunks]

So you're saying the skill involved is similar? I agree to a certain extent. Maybe 'grinding' until you are good enough is just another way to make the game easier to play and thus taking away a skill element. That's kinda an easy way out and go-out-swinging skill way of doing things like button mashing. I don't do that, though. Like Loaf said I prefer to play and battle when I need to. If a boss is hard then it's supposed to be. I tend to use magics and skill to make things easier, maybe checking weakness' and praying on them. I guess there are people who grind and people who don't. That, I suppose, is the same as people who button mash and those who don't.

I think I see what you mean, but I don't whole heartedly agree.

I think the equipment, skills, summons and items take much of that 'luck' element away that is associated with button mashing.

[Zargabaath]

Let's try this again.

First:

But I was thinking, there really isn't anything to the battle systems of Final Fantasy games as long as you grind just enough to out level the next boss.

Is this so different from button mashing? It seems, we convince ourselves there is stragegy, but all it comes down to is being a higher level than the enemies.

You need to button mash in FF?

Button Mashing is playing a fighting game and pressing random commands and hope you win.

What Loaf says and later on reiterated has importance. When a person button mashes they hope to win there is less a chance because fighting games are technical. With level-grinding the chance for success increases with a standard RPG strategy.

Second:

But I was thinking, there really isn't anything to the battle systems of Final Fantasy games as long as you grind just enough to out level the next boss.

Is this so different from button mashing? It seems, we convince ourselves there is stragegy, but all it comes down to is being a higher level than the enemies.

First statement has a clause that makes it not an absolute. The player would have to go out of their way to accomplish. Instead of increasing the their own skills required for a fighting game, they increase the characters' skills in a RPG.

And it does not "all come down to being a higher level than the enemies". The player does not need to be a higher level than the enemy(s) or boss to win. In Final Fantasy XII levels are vastly inferior to equipment. Be 10 levels over the enemy but with poor equipment those extra levels won't do any good. The monsters in Final Fantasy VIII level with the party; therefore you can't out-level some of them; I do believe some of the weaker enemies do have a level cap. In FFVIII junctioning is more important than levels.

..but what I meant, I was comparing the simplicity of the final fantasy battle system to the simplistic nature of button mashing. I'm aware that there are "challenges", but I'm just wondering about everyones thoughts considering how many people bash "button mashers" when the skill required isn't all that much less than other popular forms of gaming.

While all fighting games could be button mashers which of them are really personify that title? None of them. So those who do bash them don't know little of the subject. The numbers involved in any RPG, and figuring out the best configuration for the party development in a Final Fantasy is not as simple as randomly mashing buttons.

[GypsyElder]

But I was thinking, there really isn't anything to the battle systems of Final Fantasy games as long as you grind just enough to out level the next boss.

Is this so different from button mashing? It seems, we convince ourselves there is stragegy, but all it comes down to is being a higher level than the enemies.

I can see where this idea is coming from, but I think you're confusing the fact that for most random battles (when grinding) you can usually (for the most part) get away with "mashing" the "x" button Attacking to get through battles quickly. I've done this before and at times it does feel like random x pushing; however, that in no way = button mashing game.

i.e. you can't beat the game by blindly selecting commands even if you think you're over leveled.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well, to speak on FF13's behalf...
Button mashing cannot be implemented as in fighting and action games.
For the most part, yes, it is as easy x,x,x,x,x,x,x *Victory fanfare*
In FF12 tho, you really don't do anything lol

In FF13, without spoiling, you can just press x,x,x,x for the first half, the second half however, increases the difficulty and just the simplicity of x,x,x,x,x will get you killed. Hope I'm answering you how you expected.