Getting On My Soapbox

[Taco-Calamitous]

I agree that a lot of people seem to post solely in humor/word games, and never anywhere else. I agree that this fact is in fact a fact. It has me scratching my head at times, and I wonder if those kids could carry on a conversation anywhere else. Maybe what you-Pete-have proposed, in eliminating word games, would be a good idea. I'd miss the vote a person out games, because that's stupid fun, but I wouldn't miss it too much. I also agree that threads should be allowed to go a little off topic... but I think that already happens for the most part. I think that Ally and Ann are fairly laid back about that kind of thing, as have most the moderating staff been for the past few years or so. It has inspired me to not be so anal as I was when I first was a moderator. I've even decided to permit some one liners, so long as they have some weight behind them/are witty or funny (although don't get too carried away, kids. I'll use my mod stick on you.)

However, I don't like the things I hear that you and some of the other CPC8 boys have been saying to Ally. That is going too far. As is bullying people when they start a thread that you don't find worthy or whatever. This has happened on more than one occasion, and if I see it happening in General Gaming, I will step in. I think members have been getting pushed around by certain members of our brotherhood, and that isn't cool. Just thought I'd give a head's up here, since that was partially what was being discussed. So don't be surprised. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

EDIT: Also, what Rags said is correct; it was the Spam Thread. There are other word game threads that were permitted to continue to exist that are similar, like the Three Word Posts thread...

EDIT EDIT: Sorry Meier

[Meier Link]

Ok I have said this before and I will say it again. The events that have happened are NOT linked to CPC8. Just because there is an issue with some of the members the group as a whole can not be bunched into the accusations. The group in a whole is a solid part of this forum community, that is a given. It consists of most of the forum's most active members also.

Unless I missed people screaming CPC8 at Ally or stating that they were doing it as a part of an effort from CPC8. The entirety of the staff has access to all of the SGs, including CPC8, and can have a look in there if the situation deems fit.

Now as for the deletion of WG/H, I am still against this. I think there should be a limitation set to the types of WGs that can be created. Maybe set up something like clubs where people have to apply to make a new game in that area. I think that would be proactive for that forum in general. The deletion of WG/H is not a proactive move.

I think there are a TON of threads that need to be deleted though. It would free up alot of room on the server also.

As you stated in you OP Pete. People come here for entertainment and enjoyment. Just because that area of the forum is not for you (generally speaking not limited to just Pete) doesn't make it a bad place.

And as Taco stated, I would miss the elimination threads and a few others in that section.

[Che]

*Sigh* Listen, guys. First off, I'm sorry for anything I said to anyone last night on MSN. Ann, Ally, Victoria, I apologize. I am angry because I once knew a TFF that was more relaxed than what it is now. I'm concerned about the state of the forum. Of course, back then it was smaller and easier to deal with. Now with more members, it has evolved and so have the rules. I don't want to get caught up in the past because I realize that we are in the present though.

With more members come responsibility, and I understand that. What I don't understand are some of the reasons the moderators have been closing threads recently. I do not think it is a bad thing for posts to go off topic, just as Meier thinks that because a part of a forum is not for you it isn't a bad place. I genuinely believe that a discussion's fate is to eventually go off topic. And so what if someone's post is one-lined? I wrote a query to Meier which he still hasn't responded to. I'm not sure what the reason is, but I really would have liked a response on it. (Sorry, Meier)

Also, the more limitations you put on posting the worse the forums get in my opinion. However, I understand the need for rules, and the need for new members. But what kind of new members are you looking for? You aren't gonna pull in quality members by locking topics that go off topic for a second, and promoting word games. But you are going to pull in members that annoy you and make your life as a moderator harder, and make you jaded enough to not want to deal with any kind of humor at all.

I think the moderators should take a step back and look at the situation from afar. What would you do in our shoes? I've tried to look at this situation from your angle as well, as I've put in this post many times that I understand some of your concerns. But this forum isn't about the moderators, it's about the people who come here to post and join the community. Yes, you are a part of it, but nobody likes a bunch of dictators.

Please take this post into consideration, I know it will be hard for some of you from what I said last night on MSN. But please realize that I am really upset about the whole issue. I realize it's just a forum, but from being here for so long it's really grown into something I really care about.

[Violet]

I think the moderators should take a step back and look at the situation from afar. What would you do in our shoes? I've tried to look at this situation from your angle as well, as I've put in this post many times that I understand some of your concerns. But this forum isn't about the moderators, it's about the people who come here to post and join the community. Yes, you are a part of it, but nobody likes a bunch of dictators.

Who's being the dictators? I believe it was justifiable enough that your Martin/Cilla thread was deleted. If you're still butthurt over that, you seriously need to get over it. I was in the conversation with you guys when you were in the midst of planning to make the thread, I know what your intentions were behind it. So you can stop playing innocent and pointing fingers at us for being too hard on your asses, cause it was well deserved.

Also take notice that you are the only group of people who are making complaints against the moderators being too hard on everyone. If anything, I think we've been pretty lenient. We could be a lot worse, trust me on that. Moderators are also a part of the community. We're not just a bunch of BOTS that stand to the side and let everyone have their fun while inflicting rules and justification on wrong-doers. We also participate and try to make this place fun and tolerable. But when there's a certain few members going around and stirring a bunch of shit up, you're not helping in making this a fun place to be. Maybe just for your group.

[Che]

Who's being the dictators? I believe it was justifiable enough that your Martin/Cilla thread was deleted. If you're still butthurt over that, you seriously need to get over it. I was in the conversation with you guys when you were in the midst of planning to make the thread, I know what your intentions were behind it. So you can stop playing innocent and pointing fingers at us for being too hard on your asses, cause it was well deserved.

Also take notice that you are the only group of people who are making complaints against the moderators being too hard on everyone. If anything, I think we've been pretty lenient. We could be a lot worse, trust me on that. Moderators are also a part of the community. We're not just a bunch of BOTS that stand to the side and let everyone have their fun while inflicting rules and justification on wrong-doers. We also participate and try to make this place fun and tolerable. But when there's a certain few members going around and stirring a bunch of shit up, you're not helping in making this a fun place to be. Maybe just for your group.

I would appreciate if we left the personal attacks out of this thread. Especially coming from a moderator that's not a good sign. VM me your thoughts, like Victoria is doing.

[Violet]

I would appreciate if we left the personal attacks out of this thread. Especially coming from a moderator that's not a good sign. VM me your thoughts, like Victoria is doing.

I'm merely stating the problem at hand, here. When you go and accuse the staff of being unfair, what do you expect? But ok, we can take this to VM/MSN whatever.

[GypsyElder]

Okay, I'm going to pop in here and give my 2 cents ( because that's all my broke self has...and if I had more I wouldn't give it to you ;p).

The first thing I think is a big issue here, is that since TFF doesn't have that many active members, the majority of us that have, or do stick around are older and more mature. I think the older members or all of us really, are kind of guilty of not remembering that not all the members that join here are as mature as we are, so people post at different levels.

Also, since we all looooove TFF <3, we're on a lot, and there isn't always something interesting going on, so when Mr. Noob comes in and post " leik dis " we have to swoop in and get a little joke in because we're bored ( I'm guilty of this too) which is, what I think driving members away. We're intimidating at times.

Another thing that I see, and I might be wrong but I feel like the members that are most active here, are the ones getting most of the warnings. Let me explain first:

I feel like maybe TFF needs more staff, I understand you guys can't monitor TFF all the time 24/7, but I see lots of the more active members getting warnings than some of the newer members that I think should. I see post all the time that just get skipped over that really should be getting some kind of warning, but seem to get over looked. My guess is that the staff probably do the same thing I do when I browse TFF: I don't read every post... I go through and read the post of people I am normally interested in their opinion and don't bother right away with things that don't stick out to me.

So that's why I think that's where the majority of the warnings are going. Right away it's like the "older members" should know better.

EDIT: I'm not saying people aren't deserving the warnings they receive, I'm saying the punishment isn't being evenly spread out.

EDIT EDIT: This topic will most likely go nowhere, so all this is for nothing

[Pete]

I'm glad we're doing this civilly.

Ok, so maybe the Martin and Cilla thread was done in poor taste, but this is once again a major theme of TFF. What goes on in the chat and what happens on the boards are two different things. It's almost like inadmissible evidence because of the medium. Granted, yes, we were trying to be assholes based on the chat logs, and that's the end of that issue.

Mel brings up a great point. Most of us know how forums work. We know how to post, and if we don't, we learn quickly. When some people don't get that, time after time, it really becomes troublesome, and maybe some ribbing is involved.

At the same time, as much of assholes that we can and may have been, I don't think there was ever a time when any of us really did not offer any help or advice to anyone, whether it be in answering questions or blunt criticism. We can be assholes, but that is not what we are at heart. We really care about this board, and that's why we act the way we do, because that's how it was in the old days, and that's how things used to fly.

Is it an excuse, no, but I'm just trying to offer my own perspective.

I still think the major issue here is activity.

I also would like to add that the actions in question were not actions of CPC8 as a whole, nor were they condoned by the group. We really just chose a poor way of getting some activity and a rise out of people.

[Tiffany]

I don't really think the rules are that strict, tbh.

As much as I totally <3'd Spamelot, I do find that Spam Forums take away from actual discussions. Why try and post a meaningful convo when you can just do mindless stuff in H&WG?

[Jin]

The problem though, is that it seems to be that or nothing here. There's either 4chan-esque 'discussion' or the alternative of maybe 1 or 2 'real' threads a week in GC that are at all active. Say what one will about this increase in seemingly meaningless topics, but GC was almost dead for quite a while before Block, Che and some others started creating inane threads. It may have been better back in the day, but that day was a long time ago. This is the most active I've seen GC in a long while, be it purposeful discussion or not.

That being said, let's be honest, people. The mods here are lax as hell. The problem is the definition of the GC forum, not overbearing mods. At least there's no 3 line rule.

[Magi of Worlds]

Ok guys. I'm going to have to agree with Pete, Meier, and Che. I mean think about it. Yes we could lose the Word Humor forum to get more members active in General Chat. I've noticed how 75% of members use just that forum and its not right. However, deletion of the entire forum may be a little harsh. I think a smaller H/WG forum may be a better idea. And the one liner rule is a rule for a reason guys! Back in the day people would come on and post one liners in many different threads just to reply. Now personally I don't believe the Mods are being to hard on everyone. Its not like they live to tear everybody down. Those of you who believe that should probably put yourself in their shoes having to deal with a member who creates trouble.

[Jin]

I suggest everyone to drop it. Once the BoD left, the rp/rpb section went to hell.

Sorry, hoss. I agreed with much of what you said, but you just lost any credibility you may have had by invoking the BoD in a positive light.

I hope that was just a bad comparison because this forum is much better off without their idiocy. So I'll just write that off as a bad comparison.

[Rocky]

Sorry, hoss. I agreed with much of what you said, but you just lost any credibility you may have had by invoking the BoD in a positive light.

I hope that was just a bad comparison because this forum is much better off without their idiocy. So I'll just write that off as a bad comparison.

Weren't they a big part of clan wars or w/e the rpbs that were going on at the time? I guess I just remember that part since they all left after throwing fits about it, but I wasn't around that time so yeah just write that off lol.

[Violet]

I don't know whether I should be annoyed or flattered that CPC8 got all the blame for this.

Just so you know, not all of the CPC8 are getting the blame for this. It's the few individuals within the group that are responsible for everything last night that are getting the blame.

And honestly, they don't even go to tff anymore, do you think they care if we made a post about how things are going with Cilla/Martin?

See, now that's just a complete give away.

We've been wondering how our favorite globe trotting loves have been. We haven't heard from you in what feels like ages, and we'd love to know how the first month of the relationship is going. Can you understand each other with your cockamamie and cockney accents?

Right here, it certainly looks like a question was being asked. You know they're not here anymore. So what other purpose would the thread serve? Your own amusement in making Martin and Cilla a laughing stock. Bingo.

I loled when Che creates a quality and thought provoking post about the state of our community, and Violet nitpicks and chooses to only address a single hyperbole and places blame on us.

Oh boohoo, stop whining. “Wah, she places the blame on us”. Maybe it's because you guys posted stupid shit you should've known was wrong? I looked over the entire first three GC pages, and most of the spam or ridiculous shit that bends the rules was coming from you guys(and by guys, I don't mean the whole of CPC8). Sure, there are probably a few posts here and there by noobs that I have overlooked, but you're supposed to report that shit so we can get on it fast. How many times does Andro have to tell you that? You need to report it, because me and Ally aren't ALWAYS going to be looking at the forums. Maybe if it was a professional job and we were getting paid money, we would be?

You were in the chat, did you say anything about us not being able to make the thread? Did you advise us against the creation of the thread? Did you give any input at all? Did you even answer me when I asked what happened to the thread or what we did wrong? No, you did not.

You never asked to see if it was ok to make it. If you were unsure about it(and I know you guys were, you didn't want Ally to be in the convo because you knew she'd close it otherwise)then you should've asked me. Cesar's rule of thumb is if you have to ask if it's ok, it's probably not.

And about you messaging me to see if I closed it? I didn't answer you because it doesn't matter who closed it. Me and Ally both watch GC, it doesn't make a difference which of us closed it. I made sure with her if it was an ok decision to delete it, and she said yes. So that's that.

EDIT: Incase you haven't seen Ally's sig yet.

[OceanEyes28]

All right, let me just....

Sure. Not all of CPC8 invited me into a group chat on MSN to berate me and cuss at me. I apologize to those CPC8 members who were not involved, but who were implicated. My bad.

Pete, Che, Rocky, Polk, Joe, and Loaf were in the chat. Block and midgetbob pestered me on the forum. So now I've named the individuals who were involved. You all (with the exception of midgetbob) happen to be members of CPC8, but I suppose not everything gray is an elephant, yes? A couple of these individuals were not ridiculous, and a couple have apologized if they were ridiculous. Those left: you know who you are. And you know I think you acted ridiculously and not in the best interest of the forum or the discussion we're having about the forum.

I hope that I have now made myself clear.


Humor and Word Games. It would not bother me to eliminate word games and have that forum just be the Humor forum. It would not bother me to have threads be more conversational, and it is something I am already trying to do (within reason).

What some of you should understand is that it is up to the moderators to decide what is appropriate and what isn't. You can challenge that decision, and we can get the staff to take a vote on it. But in the end, this is what we were appointed to do. Ann felt that the thread about Cilla and Martin was inappropriate. I decided to back her up, because she had good reasons. So far, the rest of the staff is in agreement. So that's it, then.

[Pete]

Ann, you should have told us from the start that we couldn't do it. It doesn't matter what our intentions were, you were in the chat, and you didn't say anything until everything went to hell. By default, you're just as guilty as the rest of us in that chat. And yes, I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but I am right.

And right now those same individuals in CPC8 are trying to be a vehicle for actual change and activity. So those blaming the entire group for being bullies, can also give the entire group credit for trying to encourage a legitimate debate and hopefully some reform.



Look, we can point fingers and keep our heads in the sand, or up our asses, or wherever heads are found these days, or we can go an start to address the actual problem. The real problem isn't the bullying. That shit is all over and done with. No harm, no foul.

The real problem is that General Chat is very stagnant and needs some kind of reform. I agree that the Humor forum should be left for jokes and all that, but General Chat itself should be more open and more general.

How can we go about this?

And I was grandfathered in with the old rules

[Violet]

I could've told you, yes. I admit that I am guilty for not preventing the Martin/Cilla thread from happening. But surely you guys knew it was wrong to post it? You knew I was in the conversation.. I guess you forgot I mod GC due to my inactivity as of late?

However, I do not take the blame for those threads that Block posted. After I deleted the thread, you guys should've gotten the picture that it wasn't allowed(I should've just closed it.. my mistake there, I am sorry). When Che made the new thread, Ally closed it and explained why. Then Block goes and posts three threads that are blatantly spam.

I'm saying now, don't go throwing a fit next time one of your threads are closed. I'll offer an explanation as to why it was closed, and if you want to speak further about it in a PM or on MSN, please do.


As for the General Chat, I thought it was doing pretty fine up till last night. I think if we continue to go on the same path as we've been doing, we'll be fine. Humor/Word Games, however.. I think they've got to go. I've always thought they should be destroyed. I wouldn't miss them if they were gone. It's just a bunch of crap leaking from the brain, IMO.

[Rocky]

What some of you should understand is that it is up to the moderators to decide what is appropriate and what isn't.

This brings up an interesting idea.

It appears that out of all my posts that I have made, the majority come from General Chat. After being a contributing member for the GC forum for so long, I'd like to think I have an idea on how at least that forum on TFF works. Anyways, instead of having mods directly choose someone else on who should be in charge of the forum, why not ask the community who would be a good candidate?

Being a direct part of the community, I feel that at the very least I should have a small say in who is able to interpret what I say on the forums.

Let's run a mock trial of it. Say a mod spot opened up in the FFX forum. Though I don't know how choosing a new mod works (I assume you guys do a vote in the mod forum between yourselves or something?), but instead of that, you make an announcement thread or whatever. Then it would open up to community's thoughts. I would make a reply, and I would choose Polk because I feel like he has a lot of knowledge in that forum, plus I feel that he is also a respectable member of the community. There would be more nominations or second notions for candidates, and then the mods would decide on a mod from there, or maybe they would feel like there were no good candidates, or maybe they would come to the conclusion that there is no need for getting another mod at the time.

Anywho, I just feel like if we want to get a more diverse and new group of community members, we should start by striving to build a more diverse and new group of moderators as well. Some of them seem out of touch with their own community. How are we supposed to follow their lead if they don't know the way themselves?

Just trying to give new ideas for the forums, comments/criticism please. Sorry if it sounds charlie, it's 3am and it sounded cool at the time, night all and I <3 tff. :3

[Furore]

Let's run a mock trial of it. Say a mod spot opened up in the FFX forum. Though I don't know how choosing a new mod works (I assume you guys do a vote in the mod forum between yourselves or something?), but instead of that, you make an announcement thread or whatever. Then it would open up to community's thoughts. I would make a reply, and I would choose Polk because I feel like he has a lot of knowledge in that forum, plus I feel that he is also a respectable member of the community. There would be more nominations or second notions for candidates, and then the mods would decide on a mod from there, or maybe they would feel like there were no good candidates, or maybe they would come to the conclusion that there is no need for getting another mod at the time.

Then Mod positions would likely become a popularity contest and that kind of thing rarely works, particularly if they have a good amount of power. There's a reason your average Joe doesn't become a politicion even if he is very popular.

The mods are fine 95% of the time now (a higher percentage than most other forums out there). They're fairly lax while still tightening down on bullshit. Hell I'd say the ones complaining now were quite guilty of that bullshit.

[Unknown Entity]

Then Mod positions would likely become a popularity contest and that kind of thing rarely works, particularly if they have a good amount of power. There's a reason your average Joe doesn't become a politicion even if he is very popular.

I agree. When the popular people of a group become the 'leaders', they tend to be put in a position when their friends have done wrong, need to be punished, and they don't have the heart to do anything. If they do do something, then the friend gets butthurt and complains about it.

You know, the whole "but you're my friend... *puppy dog eyes*" card. Mods need to be ruthless sometimes, and still be able to contribute without being cussed by people they thought were their friends. I enjoy this community because the mods play an active part in being 'one of us'. There're not there as just to slap warnings around like in most forums, but they jump in and get their hands dirty.

Personally, I'd like to see H/WG to stay. I don't think that getting rid of it would change much except bring the spammers out on to GC and other sections of the forum, which is what I thought we were trying to prevent. If anything, I think H/WG needs a HUGE makeover. Older games need to be deleted, there needs to be some sort order there. Someone said something earlier about games needing approval before the thread is made, which I think for certain games (*cough*Elimination Games*cough*) is a good idea.

That section of the forum is ignored by most of the older (in both time here and their physical age) members, and they're the ones who want it gone. That's not fair to the people who do use it.

I think, with the right limitations over there, we can get some traffic moving in other parts of the forum with the traffic from there. If we apply SOME of the same rules there as we use here, people will feel more confident about posting in the bigger sections. I sound like I want to make H/WG a boring place, but really I think that 75% of the member who post there are a little intimidated about posting in other areas.

[Merlin]

Back in the day, rampant spam-infested threads blanketed GC. To mitigate the damage and not run off people who enjoy such activities, the Word Games forum was born. Sure, I wouldn't mind all that stuff being obliterated from the face of the planet, but there are plenty of people who do enjoy that.

I fail to see how deleting it would boost activity. If anything, you would be killing activity even further. Sure, it isn't the best kind of activity to have, but your post counts,etc there don't count anyway(unless someone changed it). Right now it sounds like a bunch of kids on summer vacation whining that there isn't anything to do and they are bored. Rather than forming gangs to bully people, you should start forming programs to encourage yourselves and others to become active in constructive ways. I'm doing my part by trying to redesign the boards. What are you doing to make TFF a great place? Let's get busy, shall we?

[Cain Highwind]

I'm not going to get involved with this whole chat hullabaloo, wasn't there.

But I wanted to address Pete's idea on General Chat. I agree that I don't see the point of a Humor subforum, however with the Word Games forum, it's there because it is a spam forum. It's like on the opposite end of the forum spectrum opposed to Roleplaying. There are people who simply enjoy that. However, before its creation there would be people who would abuse such topics to hurry up and get High Post counts and Gold for the Arcade like getting it ASAP was a life and death matter. Just saying.

Senile Old Admin is out, PEACE!

[Dodie16]

Well, I guess I'll be one of the oddballs and advocate for the H/WG to stay put. I honestly don't see what the big deal is with people wanting it gone. If you don't like it, then don't participate. Do people really think that if H/WGs were to disappear that GC would suddenly burst into activity? I don't think so.

Mods are doing a pretty good job of keeping the more spammier word games from really going anywhere, though I think that there should be a bit more limitations set on some of the threads that start, mainly the Elimination threads. Now, I like participating in said threads, but even I think that they can go a little overboard with how many pop up. I think there should be some sort of limitation set on that, though I have no idea how someone could really enforce such a thing. It's pretty much going with what Meier Link mentioned though.

Anyway, back to H/WG as a whole: I agree that it does seem like there are people that seem to just solely post there, but so what? If that's their prerogative, I say let them do it. This forum is supposed to be for fun, and that's what many of the threads in H/WG are for. Maybe it's not everyone's type of fun, but I for one sometimes just like to participate in games like "Are they on your iPod" without having to give some sort of an explanation of WHY said music group is on my iPod, which would surely have to happen if said thread was located anywhere else.

Sometimes a little mindless fun is good.

Some other stuff I want to add:

Rocky's plan sounds good on paper (or text ), but I don't think the execution would go over very well. I don't know the whole ins and outs of being a moderator, so how could I possibly vote for someone when I really don't know the details of the job?

If it were to happen, I agree with Silver that it would turn into some sort of popularity contest. Yeah, Rocky said that the final decision would be left up to the higher ups, but I think that if the one voted for said job didn't get the position for whatever reason, then perhaps more drama could result. Granted, I could assume that people be mature enough to handle that kind of "rejection" or whatever, but seeing the events unfold in these past couple of days, I'm sorry to say that I think that I probably shouldn't assume that much.

The people appointed to be a Mod, S-mod or any other spiffy title have that position for a reason. I think that the people appointed now are doing a good job, but it's true that they can't catch EVERYTHING. I don't think adding in more mods would help though. It would sort of create whole "Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians" type of thing, imo. I agree with Andro in that there is a report button/icon there, so use it! It's up to all of us here at TFF to make this forum run smoothly, not just the mods.

[Tiffany]

For those who are complaining about inactivity on the forums, how about instead of hassling and nagging new members maybe try to welcome them instead?

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a "hey, I'm new here" and then theres always some sort of ridiculous comment about "noobs" and whatever. Or, if there is someone who joins and isn't familiar with the rules, they get jumped on for being a perceived "idiot". That isn't exactly going to foster warm fluffy sentiments about the forum. You complain about inactivity, but the forum now feels like unless you've been here for more than 6 years or have a high post count what you feel and what you say doesn't matter.

Its all about who the "old" members are. I can't remember who said it, but someone tried to defend the ribbing and whatnot as its "all in good fun". New people (who would bring new life to the forums) wouldn't exactly know that, would they?

Sure its nice that my join date says 2002. That doesn't mean I'm a fantastic member or anything. The forum is only as good as the people who post in it. I barely do so I'm really no better. But then again too, I'm not complaining these days about inactivity.

[Pete]

Well, I polished my car today. It's a 1991 Cutlass Ciera S. It's almost 20 years old, and I just put a nice coat of wax on it. It doesn't change the fact that it's got the same engine, transmission or exhaust system.

Yeah, you can polish a piece of crap, but it's still a piece of crap.

[GypsyElder]

Rant time!

Okay, I think this is getting ridiculous, and I'm getting annoyed. NOW TFF sucks, because some people want to bitch and moan and complain, we can't even have decent convos on msn anymore because people have said hurtful things to each other on TFF itself and on msn, being accused of stupid stuff, so that's toast. This has to be some of the dumbest e drama I've seen in my life, and I could care less for it. I think it's sad.

It started with people getting mad over the forum "they love sooo much" and wanna make better to people deleting accounts.. arguments? over something like this?

How is this helping anything?

I probably won't post in this thread anymore.

I hope this all this is a big joke.

HAHA May fools ???

[Rocky]

Rant time!

Okay, I think this is getting ridiculous, and I'm getting annoyed. NOW TFF sucks, because some people want to bitch and moan and complain, we can't even have decent convos on msn anymore because people have said hurtful things to each other on TFF itself and on msn, being accused of stupid stuff, so that's toast. This has to be some of the dumbest e drama I've seen in my life, and I could care less for it. I think it's sad.

It started with people getting mad over the forum "they love sooo much" and wanna make better to people deleting accounts.. arguments? over something like this?

How is this helping anything?

I probably won't post in this thread anymore.

I hope this all this is a big joke.

HAHA May fools ???

Who is still bitching? If people can't get over it, then they need to grow up. I'm over it, and so is everyone else that I talk to. I'm trying to throw out some ideas on reform since at this point I like the people here but I don't like the authority figures, so I'm working on a way for that to change.

And no Gypsy, I worded the thread wrong. Cain did not tell Che to delete his account, Che asked Cain to do it for him. I would of put in an edit but Violet closed my thread which disabled me to change it. -_-

[Violet]

I'm trying to throw out some ideas on reform since at this point I like the people here but I don't like the authority figures, so I'm working on a way for that to change.

And the fact that you even want to do that implies you aren't over it yet. You're still angry at the decisions we made the other night when it's been proven over and over that it was justifiable. I'm sorry, but you can't change it because you don't run this place. I'd hate to see all of you leave over one little thread being closed. It's a damn shame, since I know you guys are capable of being more mature than that.

And regarding your last thread. You PM the Admins/S-mods about things like that. It does NOT belong in General Chat. Get with the program.

[Rocky]

And the fact that you even want to do that implies you aren't over it yet. You're still angry at the decisions we made the other night when it's been proven over and over that it was justifiable. I'm sorry, but you can't change it because you don't run this place. I'd hate to see all of you leave over one little thread being closed. It's a damn shame, since I know you guys are capable of being more mature than that.

And regarding your last thread. You PM the Admins/S-mods about things like that. It does NOT belong in General Chat. Get with the program.

The thread is a onetime deal and got deleted, but having a bad mod can lead to an ongoing problem. Stop putting words in my mouth, I'm not angry, I just said I was over it lol. You don't know what you are talking about, and you don't know how to be in charge, so just drop it, you are making yourself look stupid right now.

I don't plan on going anywhere lol. Not unless I was being driven out.

I had to get someones attention because again, a MOD wasn't doing their job and permabanned Che because again, they didnt know what they were doing. See a recurring theme here?

And on a side note, we want more members, but what if chad was a new member and got permabanned for something he obviously didn't do? Jesus christ kiddies.

[Andromeda]

I had to get someones attention because again, a MOD wasn't doing their job and permabanned Che because again, they didnt know what they were doing. See a recurring theme here?

And on a side note, we want more members, but what if chad was a new member and got permabanned for something he obviously didn't do? Jesus christ kiddies.

Alright, time to set the record straight since everyone is lacking a few details that actually changes the situation totally.

First, the reason that the account Chad was banned was because when doing an IP change it only came up with Block's IP.

Second, the reason why Chad's account was banned for being associated with Block's IP is because Block was banned and we always ban any accounts related to the IP, especially given that Block had a history of several attempts to circumvent the ban by creating new accounts.

Third, the reason why only Block's IP came up was because Che's account was deleted and not banned, thus meaning that it was removed from the system. This resulted in all of Che's IP being removed as well and thus never going to show up in an IP search, which is what we use to match accounts to each other for the purpose of banning additional or circumventing accounts.

With these facts available it is pretty clear that it was a very easy to make mistake with any evidence of Che's account having been wiped. So as a staffer if you checked the IPs and found only Block to be related, who had a history of trying to circumvent his banning, what would your reaction be? Answer, you'd think that Block was making a new account.

Checking IPs is not 100% accurate, but it is a fairly uncommon case that two different members would be sharing the same IP (i.e in the same house). It obviously happens, but it's an exception. The remaining facts about the who Chad was became known and it was fix quickly.