Originally Posted by
Rowan
If you are allowed to use information from spin offs and magazines about ff7, isntead of just ff7 itself, then I'm allowed to conclude that ultimecia is in fact Rinoa because of the overwhelming amount of evidence presented in spin off titles (especially dissidia where ultemecias weapons are Rinoa's weapons). I'm happy either way. But I think the true story is always the original story. Also, nowhere did it state that Jenova was controlling Sephiroth. Sephiroth went mad, and acted on his own will. Probably the biggest tantrum I've ever seen.
Sephiroth - "These guys are monsters"
cloud - "hey, wern't you created this way too"
Sephiroth - "im going to kill every ****ing person on this planet including you"
Im not disagreeing with you about Sephiroth controlling Jenova, im just saying its not made clear in the game.
It was clear enough because there were still people who didn't think that somehow, Jenova was in control. I'm still waiting for where the game says that Jenova was the one leading Sephiroth around to those who misunderstood.
Just because a lot people draw erroneous conclusions doesn't mean that the source said so. Just because a lot of people didn't bother to pay attention and read doesn't mean its not clear, when you've got Jenova calling Sephy kins MASTER and Hojo saying Sephiroth was behind the whole Reunion. How does that make any sense?
And the story was clear regarding Sephiroth in control. We have Hojo saying it out of his own damn mouth, we have Sephiroth/Jenova revealing itself to be a monster and then calling the real Sephiroth "master" and finally the reports in Nibelheim outlining the Sephiroth Copy Project and how it was an experiment to see if the Reunion was possible.
It's the same thing. Bullshit speculation. People somehow got it in their minds that the alien is really more than the plot said, and gave it way too much importance to the plot. It's merely a conduit of Sephiroth's power. The translation may be shoddy but the actual story makes sense. This isn't like how they accidentally said the Cetra were aliens. All that was said was right and for some reason, a lot of people were either too young or not paying attention when it was all revealed.
Seriously, it just wasnt that hard to grasp Because when the text has Jenova itself calling Sephiroth "Master" the answer is pretty clear. And yeah, shoddy translating but not regarding the Sephiroth Control parts. Honestly, I don't get what's hard to understand with Jenova calling Sephiroth her master, and Hojo saying Sephiroth was the one behind the Reunion. It's clear. How much more do they need to say without making a diagram about it?
Nowhere does it CLEARLY state that Sephiroth was controlling JENOVA herself, merely the cells that were injected into experiments.
That monologue coupled with Jenova saying:
Cloud: He disappeared!?
Tifa: He might still be nearby……
???: Our purpose is to deliver the Black Materia to our master.
Cloud: Our...?
Cid: Hey, hey! What's goin' on?
???: Those who carry Jenova's cells...
Cloud: Master...!?
???: Of course... Sephiroth. Heh, heh, heh...
Is again, indicative of Jenova being under the control of Sephiroth. Unless you think Jenova would call Sephiroth "master" while controlling him. Clearly the "????" in the conversation is Jenova because at that point in the game you realise it wasn't Sephiroth you were chasing, but Jenova assuming the form of Sephiroth.
You could argue the "????" why it didnt it just friggin say 'JENOVA'... Oh maybe because they wanted you to realise it was Jenova when you actually started fighting it. The surprise was meant to be that you're facing off against a Sephiroth referring to himself in the third person only to discover...
It's Jenova itself.
That was the plot twist regarding the whole "Chasing Sephiroth across the globe" shtick.
AND also after that dialogue happens, who is it that's staring you in the face trying to kill you? JENOVA. It ain't a Copy or a someone else. It's Jenova. And then the party clearly states that they weren't following my hunny, but Jenova. C'mon.
And again, the game clearly states and tells you the Sephiroth Copies are the survivors of Nibelheim Hojo's experimental samples. They don't become giant Jenova creatures. We SEE that the Jenova creatures are made of Jenova's body. And at the time of the story where Jenova DEATH fights you, ALL the copies have been killed. So again, how would you assume that, unless you weren't paying attention?
And no, there is no battle of wills. Sephiroth was, and still is in control. Jenova calls him master, and he was its master in AC. In Lifestream Black, Sephiroth doesn't even have to think twice about using Jenova's power. Please stop attributing the mindless alien importance when it's nothing more than a conduit of Sephiroth's power now. Jenova is for all intents and purposes, Sephiroth's extraterrestrial bitch literally.
Why do you think when Sephiroth turned around to fight you, you suddenly were fighting Jenova DEATH and they express shock at the Sephiroth they were following not being who they thought?
Again, if u read the reports in Nibelheim and listen to Hojo, u know Sephiroth Clones are merely the survivors of Nibelheim who were used in the Jenova Reunion experiment. I repeat if you play FFVII and read everything in the game, the answer is there. People might be saying it isn't because you didn't understand but that's no fault of the game. You're expected to pay attention and READ everything there is if you're to get the whole picture. Cloud says after fighting Jenova BIRTH that the monster they fought was Jenova's arm, meaning that any portion of Jenova can suddenly metamorphorsize into a separate entity, brainless or not.
All the Sephiroth Clones are dead by the time you catch up to Sephiroth. They're all dead, you see Sephiroth take out the last remaining 2. Furthermore, why would a random Sephiroth Clone suddenly appear out of nowhere when Sephiroth/Jenova was just speaking to Cloud and continued answering his question? Does not compute.
And clearly Sephiroth succeeded because the Reunion itself happened with Sephiroth at the center. That's clearly obvious and to the point. How could it only be Sephiroth wanting to when he's already achieved his goal and is at the center of everything, thus symbolising he did what Hojo just stated? The Reunion happened.
There could be no plot twist with Jenova at the center because Hojo and the storyline has just demostrated that Sephiroth was the one pulling the strings of all events, including Jenova. Jenova even states that Sephiroth is its "master." Hojo, Jenova, and the storyline all clearly state that Sephiroth is the main threat. If you didn't get that, that sucks but the game does tell you. You can't deny that it does when its in black and white text.
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