Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Sinister]

Asserting that I view my opinion as fact is misleading and viperous, as well as untrue. And you pointing out appeals to emotion doesn't make my points any less valid, perhaps maybe a little low, but equally valid. Im not here to convince anybody of anything, Im here to see what arguments people can come up with to refute, not to be snide pricks. If a mother does not want her child, who are you to say she must and force an unwanted child into the world?

I do not assert; you inferred. If that is not your intention, you failed in making that clear. I would also watch the borderline flame-speak, tis not appreciated by mods also you may wound my sensitive fragile ego. I would never ever even begin to think myself fit to tell a mother what to do with her baby. I know what I would say about my daughter and my potential grandchild or alternatively, my wife and my potential child. I think that is a fair sentiment to echo in this thread. If you indeed were merely expressing your opinion, I simply challenge you, and everyone in this thread, to make that safely clear. And yes, emotional appeals in Intellectual Discussion are unwanted and unwelcome.

-Sin

[Rowan]

I do not assert; you inferred. If that is not your intention, you failed in making that clear. I would also watch the borderline flame-speak, tis not appreciated by mods also you may wound my sensitive fragile ego. I would never ever even begin to think myself fit to tell a mother what to do with her baby. I know what I would say about my daughter and my potential grandchild or alternatively, my wife and my potential child. I think that is a fair sentiment to echo in this thread. If you indeed were merely expressing your opinion, I simply challenge you, and everyone in this thread, to make that safely clear. And yes, emotional appeals in Intellectual Discussion are unwanted and unwelcome.

-Sin

Aside from me saying "This is fact" , how else could you possibly blame me for your thought process? Just as you couldnt blame me for taking your 'advice' as just plain insults. Dont think that calling someone an 'idiot' or a 'dickhead' or any other kind of slur is the only way to pass insults. I find your kind, the smarmy undertones of pretention to be the most insulting, especially since you are allowed to get away with it because its not obvious.

Aside from all of that, and all the ego bashing going on, I dont care about your personal decisions with your family because while it may be a 'fair' sentiment, it is certainly not a useful one. Pro-life and Pro choice are directly in contradiction with each other in this scenario. If being pro-choice means being able to have an option to have an abortion, you are taking away any choice the fetus had of having a life, therefor pro-choice doesnt really exist. If you are pro-life, you are against choice is this regard. I think everyone should have a choice if they are able to make one.

[Sinister]

Aside from me saying "This is fact" , how else could you possibly blame me for your thought process? Just as you couldnt blame me for taking your 'advice' as just plain insults. Dont think that calling someone an 'idiot' or a 'dickhead' or any other kind of slur is the only way to pass insults. I find your kind, the smarmy undertones of pretention to be the most insulting, especially since you are allowed to get away with it because its not obvious.

You find my attitude as an "insult" or insulting? Ah well, there again at the mercy of vague definitions and my intentions. The latter of which, at least, I know for a fact you are having trouble with. This has already gone on longer than I intended to bother with it.


-Sin

[Rowan]

I am considering the possibility that my opinion on the matter of life and the necessity of abortion may not be correct or at least, true for everyone. In this case, if it goes to court and Pro-Choice is legalized, people's souls are in their own hands(as it should be) and I don't marginalize people or situations I may not understand. You seem to have omitted this possibility with regards to your own "opinion".

So im marginilizing people now? Can you please stop with your assertions, they make me look bad and suposedly I already do a good job of that.

And please, souls? really?
I guess we are going to have a fundemental disagreement on this subject... as If it wasn't already apparent.

You find my attitude as an "insult" or insulting? Ah well, there again at the mercy of vague definitions and my intentions. The latter of which, at least, I know for a fact you are having trouble with. This has already gone on longer than I intended to bother with it.

Yes, because we all know you had the best of intentions when you started down this road with me.

[Sinister]

So im marginilizing people now? Can you please stop with your assertions, they make me look bad and suposedly I already do a good job of that.

I did not assert, I inferred. We do need a dictionary at this debate.

And please, souls? really?

I chose my metaphor, don't like it, choose yours. Conscience, I believe is the reigning secular term. Either way it is a decision that belongs to each individual situation and person. The point of morality is that it belongs to the person who owns it. Ever hear of Loki's Wager? There are somethings that will never be agreed upon...the definition of life...the definition of death. Until then, it's best left to the philosophers or each individual person.

Yes, because we all know you had the best of intentions when you started down this road with me.

Well, we all know what use good intentions are...

-Sin

[Rowan]

I chose my metaphor, don't like it, choose yours. Conscience, I believe is the reigning secular term. Either way it is a decision that belongs to each individual situation and person. The point of morality is that it belongs to the person who owns it. Ever hear of Loki's Wager? There are somethings that will never be agreed upon...the definition of life...the definition of death. Until then, it's best left to the philosophers or each individual person.

-Sin

This^

Okay, at what point is the soul (or conscience) inserted into the fetus? It seems like the basis for your argument relies heavily on the unborns awareness of itself. I could settle on outlawing abortions when the mother is 6 months + In, because then it has become an irresponsibilty on behalf of her and now the fetus has come to a point in which it may have either of the aforementioned qualities of human and therefor, a right to live. A choice.

[Sinister]

This^

Okay, at what point is the soul (or conscience) inserted into the fetus? It seems like the basis for your argument relies heavily on the unborns awareness of itself. I could settle on outlawing abortions when the mother is 6 months + In, because then it has become an irresponsibilty on behalf of her and now the fetus has come to a point in which it may have either of the aforementioned qualities of human and therefor, a right to live. A choice.

Oh, I don't pretend to state that souls or conscience, or consciousness, for that matter, is my basis for defining life. Such a thing would never be provable within the foreseeable future and (with regards to souls)may not even be true. I have no idea and no intention of using my religion to back up my beliefs about abortion. My basis for declaring something alive is simply that two people combine and at some point it results in a couple of cells that are genetically unique. The potentiality of making a unique organism has, at that point, been realized. But these, once again, are merely personal beliefs. It is up to everyone to make their choice and to deal with it.

I don't even like killing spiders or bugs. I'm not morally up to killing unique cells which are people or people-in-the-making.

-Sin