Okay, I see what you're getting at there. But my point isn't that you shouldn't try - more if that is the choice they choose to make, why condemn and vilify? That's their right to do so. It's free will to choose to seek help, and free will to choose not to if they don't believe it will work. It's your free will/choice to try to help, and theirs to refuse. I still don't believe there's any justification for passing judgment in any event. Sorry but I will never think otherwise.