Who the hell exactly is Ultimecia?

[Angel of Iniquity]

Well as far as hurting Squall, think about the "you always hurt the ones you love" phenomenon. She obviously healed him after, which now that I think about it would answer a very big question that was left unanswered. After he's hurt, he wakes up in the prison with no injury whatsoever. It would actually make great since if Ultimacia (as Rinoa) had hurt him, then realized what'd she'd done and fixed it. Otherwise there is no answer and they never address the situation again.

And I've always thought if Griever was simply a dead squall turned GF from the future, as the other GF's in the game are previously living entities, then that would demonstrate further her illogical obsession with him, and perhaps fuel her need to see him alive again.

Well when squall is revived, Seifer asked what seeD was. Ultimecia needed him alive to know. Greiver was stated to be a legendary GF, meaning Greiver can't be Squall, unless you are leaning to the form that the party battles.

[Locke4God]

I'll be honest, I've never noticed there to be different forms of Griever. I kind of thought the whole point of naming him earlier in the game was to show that he was at the very least unique in the final battle, and possibly that there was a deeper connection between the three of them. Why is Squall carrying around a necklace of this Legendary GF, and why is that GF presented as a symbol of the game? I'm just thinking out loud. That makes me think there's a more personal connection of the GF to squall himself and not that Squall just likes him or something.

When/Where is it stated that Griever is a legendary (old) GF?

[Angel of Iniquity]

I'll be honest, I've never noticed there to be different forms of Griever. I kind of thought the whole point of naming him earlier in the game was to show that he was at the very least unique in the final battle, and possibly that there was a deeper connection between the three of them. Why is Squall carrying around a necklace of this Legendary GF, and why is that GF presented as a symbol of the game? I'm just thinking out loud. That makes me think there's a more personal connection of the GF to squall himself and not that Squall just likes him or something.

When/Where is it stated that Griever is a legendary (old) GF?

Well, there are several sources, but the only one I can remember is scanning Greiver during the last battle.
And the battle themse that plays is named Legendary beast or Legendary summon, one of those two.

[Zargabaath]

When a sorceress gets her powers, they usually have a set themes, which would mean, Adel is non-elemental...

Adel's "element" is man-hood. A giant sorceress that has better defined muscles, including pecks, than any man in Final Fantasy VIII.

As for Griever: if I remember correctly, Griever is Squall's interpretation of the ultimate Guardian Force, extracted from Squall's mind & brought to life by Ultimecia during the final battle.

Locke4Godeople are hunting the sorceresses down because they know one of them is going to try time compression. Exactly when the start to hunt down and persecute them is not certain just in the future. How far into the future is unknown.

When time is involved things get confusing. Just look at Final Fantasy. Chaos is Garland flung into the past by the Fiends with their power. Yet, how would there be a Chaos Shrine if Garland has yet to die? When there is time travel/time loops/people f*ck*ng with time, how events happened initially are hard to discern.

[Locke4God]

If that's the case then, I just don't get why Greiver then is such and important icon to Squall. That totally feels random. I mean why would he care so much as to have a necklace of it on him at all times, and other emblems in his room. Why would I the player care about this GF when I know nothing about it or it's history. There'd have to be more to it than that right?

But I have a theory maybe that just occurred to me. If Ultimacia is from the future, then perhaps he's legendary from where he comes in the future? That would thusly be able to tie into the Rinoa=Ult, Squall=Greiver theories.

[Angel of Iniquity]

If that's the case then, I just don't get why Greiver then is such and important icon to Squall. That totally feels random. I mean why would he care so much as to have a necklace of it on him at all times, and other emblems in his room. Why would I the player care about this GF when I know nothing about it or it's history. There'd have to be more to it than that right?

But I have a theory maybe that just occurred to me. If Ultimacia is from the future, then perhaps he's legendary from where he comes in the future? That would thusly be able to tie into the Rinoa=Ult, Squall=Greiver theories.

Huh, Squall being Griever seems cool from your insight. But I can't really see it being true.
I am guesssing the reason squll likes Greiver is... cause he likes it literally.
When Zell asks for Squalls Ring, Squalls says he really likes this ring. Which for some reason to me, was funny as all hell.

[Locke4God]

Yeah,,, well I don't know,,,, We could go on about this.

I know it's not accurate, but

I just like the idea that in a different timeline, Rinoa fell for squall, she was hunted, he protected her, later he died and she converted him to her GF Griever, she jumped through time avoiding attacks, grew dissoriented, and bitter, eventually became insane with both the loss of the true squall and a world of enemies, attempted the time compression act that we know in the game.

I just like it. I don't know. It's more fun for me.

[Zargabaath]

If that's the case then, I just don't get why Greiver then is such and important icon to Squall. That totally feels random. I mean why would he care so much as to have a necklace of it on him at all times, and other emblems in his room. Why would I the player care about this GF when I know nothing about it or it's history. There'd have to be more to it than that right?

But I have a theory maybe that just occurred to me. If Ultimacia is from the future, then perhaps he's legendary from where he comes in the future? That would thusly be able to tie into the Rinoa=Ult, Squall=Greiver theories.

The Griever symbols that Squall has: the necklace, the ring, & on his gunblade are all symbols that embody his values. Specifically the head of Griever which is a lion. Take the symbolism of a lion like: pride, courage, authority, dignity, etc. and that is what Squall values dearly.


Locke, exactly what are you referring to when you said, "then perhaps he's legendary from where he comes in the future"?

Do you mean Squall or Griever?

I believe in the Japanese version of the game during the final fight it explains how Ultimecia brought Griever to life & why.

[Locke4God]

@ Zargabaath - I meant Griever is legendary where he comes from in the future.

[Zargabaath]

@ Zargabaath - I meant Griever is legendary where he comes from in the future.

That wouldn't make such sense still since it is Squall that is needed to make Griever. Before Ultimecia's actions there was no GF Griever. She brought it to life on the spot from Squall's mind. The result would be different if she took the "ultimate" GF from some other person's mind.

[Locke4God]

It think it would make sense, if she created him from squall in the game's main timeline, then the hundred years or however far it was in the future that Ultimacia came from Griever was by that time a legendary GF. Then when she returns to fight that battle again from the future, it says "Legendary GF".

That may not be exactly what you meant though. It gets a little confusing trying to sort this one out. Let me know.

[Zargabaath]

It think it would make sense, if she created him from squall in the game's main timeline, then the hundred years or however far it was in the future that Ultimacia came from Griever was by that time a legendary GF. Then when she returns to fight that battle again from the future, it says "Legendary GF".

That may not be exactly what you meant though. It gets a little confusing trying to sort this one out. Let me know.

Griever was first created during the Time Compression imposed by Ultimecia, therefore she would not have gone back in time.

Also, why would she come back to make Griever from Squall's mind plus, how would she send her body back as it appears that she could not transfer her powers to another sorceress through mind control. As to the "GF making" ability I believe that is Ultimecia's alone.

Griever is "legendary" because that is what Squall thinks is the Ultimate GF. It may not be legendary in the sense that it has been around for a while. Instead it is "legendary" for what it represents.

[Angel of Iniquity]

Hmm, something interesting. Was it ultimecias ability to recreate GF's? Or was it because all the other sorceresses power she gained? I remember something stating the iguanas that you fight were once real, but again, she animated them from nothingness.
Also, how the hell tdid omega get in her castle unless it was just... for fun lol