Fix the damn Elevator, ALSO

[Pete]

1. You can stand the exercise

2. It's tolerable. Just click on the last page of the thread.

3. It's not really a double standard. People just look like dicks when they're put in a position of power and have to use that power to actually enforce the rules. Any cop who is called to crash a party will look like a **** when you're attending the party, but an asset to the neighbors who want sleep. All they're doing is their job. What's the point of giving people power if they won't/ can't use it.

As for the censors, it's not an issue of people getting warned for dropping f bombs. By now, most all of us know how to avoid the censor. It's really a non issue if someone curses. Describing things like sex, in detail is another story though.

4.a. There's no vb code for fixing homophobia. That's up to the members themselves.
b. Phantom would do the same thing over and over again; posting biased new from pro-gay sites and then cry outrage. Some would just tell him to shut up and deal with it, others would sympathize and others don't care either way. It's the same anywhere.
c. When he accuses people of homophobia for not wanting to see the same thing again and again, it's not homophobia; it's just being sick and tired of his crap. HE would get all pissy because others didn't agree. It was a double standard on his part.
d. He got banned for non-gay related reasons.
e. MSN and TFF are two different entities. What happens in MSN isn't under TFF jurisdiction, and we don't have an extradition policy. It should stay that way.
f. I understand that Phantom was all about gay rights and equality and all of that, but HE brought a lot of it upon himself. The first couple of times it brought interesting debate. After that it was just bickering on both sides, and a lot of 'which mod will close this to stop the petty insults?'

5. I don't think we have any problems with the mods. The admins do checks and balances and can review the jobs of the mods at hand. They do their jobs and they do them well. Spam is shut down fairly quickly and we don't have any troll problems. That makes the forums happy.

And I do appreciate you sticking up for the weak, poor, unsheltered and any other in need of a personal champion. You sir, are an internet saint.

[Furore]

1. You can stand the exercise

Those stairs are a death trap.

2. It's tolerable. Just click on the last page of the thread.

Tolerable, but improvable.

3. It's not really a double standard. People just look like dicks when they're put in a position of power and have to use that power to actually enforce the rules. Any cop who is called to crash a party will look like a **** when you're attending the party, but an asset to the neighbors who want sleep. All they're doing is their job. What's the point of giving people power if they won't/ can't use it.

So it's not a double standard when member A and member B do something similar and only one is punished or the punishment differs greatly?

As for the censors, it's not an issue of people getting warned for dropping f bombs. By now, most all of us know how to avoid the censor. It's really a non issue if someone curses. Describing things like sex, in detail is another story though.

Rules are rules, though aren't they? And some members do get in trouble for breaking rules even if others don't.

4.a. There's no vb code for fixing homophobia. That's up to the members themselves.
b. Phantom would do the same thing over and over again; posting biased new from pro-gay sites and then cry outrage. Some would just tell him to shut up and deal with it, others would sympathize and others don't care either way. It's the same anywhere.
c. When he accuses people of homophobia for not wanting to see the same thing again and again, it's not homophobia; it's just being sick and tired of his crap. HE would get all pissy because others didn't agree. It was a double standard on his part.
d. He got banned for non-gay related reasons.
e. MSN and TFF are two different entities. What happens in MSN isn't under TFF jurisdiction, and we don't have an extradition policy. It should stay that way.
f. I understand that Phantom was all about gay rights and equality and all of that, but HE brought a lot of it upon himself. The first couple of times it brought interesting debate. After that it was just bickering on both sides, and a lot of 'which mod will close this to stop the petty insults?'

Oh really? I thought he got banned from ID because his threads weren't popular, or it was his flame-baiting that resulted from mods not intervening when people were trolling him? Do tell me if I'm wrong.

Other topics come up a lot too and some members often bring their own lifestyle choices into threads and I'm yet to see a repeat of what happened to Phantom for those choices.

MSN and TFF are two different places, but when you have people discussing and plotting TFF related events on MSN including mods, there's a bit of irresponsibility there. And I do recall where you sat on MSN too Pete.

5. I don't think we have any problems with the mods. The admins do checks and balances and can review the jobs of the mods at hand. They do their jobs and they do them well. Spam is shut down fairly quickly and we don't have any troll problems. That makes the forums happy.

Thanks for the laugh.

And I do appreciate you sticking up for the weak, poor, unsheltered and any other in need of a personal champion. You sir, are an internet saint.

Beats being an internet sheep.

[Andromeda]

As I tell a lot of people use reports or PMs. Any report I get I always look into to see if something needs to be done. If it goes to a mod and you think things haven't be handle properly PM me. I will take a look at the problem myself. I take every report I get seriously regardless of how many I get. Just send me all of the information and I'll look it over. Rank doesn't matter to me, if they made a mistake they'll get warned just same as anyone else. Heck, Shadow knows I've warned him a couple times myself and he's my best friend. I may not be the active member I once was, but I'm still available as a staff member. That always comes first for me and I do take it seriously and try to make the others as well. For anyone in the staff forums knows I've gotten on a couple people for acting unprofessional.

I'll keep my points to that. I understand your emotions and investment in this must be strong, but I do ask that you temper yourself. This is a slippery slope.

[Furore]

As I tell a lot of people use reports or PMs. Any report I get I always look into to see if something needs to be done. If it goes to a mod and you think things haven't be handle properly PM me. I will take a look at the problem myself. I take every report I get seriously regardless of how many I get. Just send me all of the information and I'll look it over. Rank doesn't matter to me, if they made a mistake they'll get warned just same as anyone else. Heck, Shadow knows I've warned him a couple times myself and he's my best friend. I may not be the active member I once was, but I'm still available as a staff member. That always comes first for me and I do take it seriously and try to make the others as well. For anyone in the staff forums knows I've gotten on a couple people for acting unprofessional.

I'll keep my points to that. I understand your emotions and investment in this must be strong, but I do ask that you temper yourself. This is a slippery slope.

Will do in future, I have always seen your judgements as more or less fair, so it is good to hear you care about these kinds of things.

Oh boy am I going to enjoy this.

Sure you are, big boy.

Phantom aside, give me an example of where two members do the exact same thing and receive different punishments.

Sexual pictures a while back. Froggie got punished for something where you couldn't really see anything, I don't recall anyone else getting punished for similar, even though worse pictures have been seen on occasion. For a more recent example, look at a thread I created yesterday to illustrate my point. An entire thread of complete spam, and no warnings even though people have been warned for spam in the past, including things that were more or less relevant, just spammy.

He got banned from ID because he would flame bait. He would post accusations of homophobia pretty much whenever someone would disagree with him. I appreciate his passion for the topics, but he was blinded by it more than anything. Plus, 99% of his posts in ID were all the same thing, including calling people ignorant or homophobic. When you slander someone like that, you're essentially doing some trolling yourself.

Isn't that what I said? It came from people trolling him because he was passionate about homosexual issues. And he was a cool guy who didn't get snarky until provoked. I also think there's a bit of a conflict of interest concerning the impartiality of your posts here considering where you sided on the issue of Phantom. I saw it on MSN, and I've heard from someone on MSN there's a discussion on me right now further illustrating my point that this occurs. I do find it amusing that people are getting riled up so much by my observations though...

Either way, it shows great strength of character to attack someone from behind the shadows like that.

Other people do bring up their lifestyles, but they don't parade it in every post. I don't write about being a straight white dude in the majority of my posts, or how it affects me. Could I write about reverse racism and be the champion for that? Sure I could. Would I look like an asshat because of it? Probably.

Some DO parade their lifestyle choices in most posts. Particularly things like religion which seem to hold some people's lives together. Why aren't they getting trolled by half the forums?

I don't think it's irresponsible to discuss TFF related events on MSN. We all go to the same board, it's really one of the things we have in common. People talk about everything on MSN and AIM. Should I not talk about baseball with kids from my team because we're not on the field right now?

I do, especially when someone is in a position of power. Even if they're not though, if multiple people are targetting an individual, that's low, especially if the individual isn't enjoying the conflict. (I do though, feel free to target me!)

Trolls are only a problem if you let them be a problem

I wouldn't know what being an internet sheep is like. I do like the analogy though.

Tell that to the victims Pete. I know some of you feel the internet is 'serious business', but behind every computer is a person and believe it or not, those people have feelings too. Burying you head in the sand about problems only makes you a part of the problem.

[Treize]

Isn't that what I said? It came from people trolling him because he was passionate about homosexual issues. And he was a cool guy who didn't get snarky until provoked. I also think there's a bit of a conflict of interest concerning the impartiality of your posts here considering where you sided on the issue of Phantom.

No, from what I saw Phantom got snarky whenever someone disagreed with him. He even got snarky about other issues besides his gay threads too. He was also doing a lot of the trolling himself. I know that he's trolled me for issues that weren't even about gays just because I had a differing opinion from his. I think that he probably brought 80% of what happened upon himself.

I saw it on MSN, and I've heard from someone on MSN there's a discussion on me right now further illustrating my point that this occurs. I do find it amusing that people are getting riled up so much by my observations though...

MSN and TFF aren't related... There isn't much Mods/Admins can do about MSN conversations. Besides, if people are talking about you on MSN, you should just ignore it. It is very easy to block someone if they are giving you a hard time, or you can always just talk to someone else. Surely not all of TFF is talking about specific individuals, and if they are that would be pretty sad.

Some DO parade their lifestyle choices in most posts. Particularly things like religion which seem to hold some people's lives together. Why aren't they getting trolled by half the forums?

I have not seen anyone else post threads about their lifestyle choices like Phantom did. I know that I would even get annoyed if someone kept posting religious topics over and over again even if it was my religion being discussed. People will get sick of someone posting topics that are essentially about the same topic over and over again. If he really only wanted to talk about gay issues, he should have joined a gay forum. Then everyone would want to talk about that, and probably the majority of the people would then agree with his views.

I agree with what you are saying about the spam. It is starting to seem like a lot of the older members are thinking that they can just type whatever they want and get away with it.

A great example would be the welcome thread for that new member who wanted to talk about Final Fantasy XIV. I think it is pretty bad if we have members insulting and spaming in someone's welcome thread. I wonder how many new members we would get if we did that to everyone who joined.

[Furore]

No, from what I saw Phantom got snarky whenever someone disagreed with him. He even got snarky about other issues besides his gay threads too. He was also doing a lot of the trolling himself. I know that he's trolled me for issues that weren't even about gays just because I had a differing opinion from his. I think that he probably brought 80% of what happened upon himself.

He wasn't bad originally, it was after every topic he posted started getting hammered. I honestly think that'd **** with near anyone. And he knew that people were directly targetting him for trolling which only made things worse like that.

MSN and TFF aren't related... There isn't much Mods/Admins can do about MSN conversations. Besides, if people are talking about you on MSN, you should just ignore it. It is very easy to block someone if they are giving you a hard time, or you can always just talk to someone else. Surely not all of TFF is talking about specific individuals, and if they are that would be pretty sad.

I know a good number can get to it. It was actually worse a few months back, but it still happens from time to time and on occasion you get a pack mentality thing going. Funniest part is I know some involved are proud Christians and I've always found Christians acting UnChristian really funny for some reason. Like I said, if anyone wants to target an individual, they can target me. I love a good conflict, physical or through text.

I have not seen anyone else post threads about their lifestyle choices like Phantom did. I know that I would even get annoyed if someone kept posting religious topics over and over again even if it was my religion being discussed. People will get sick of someone posting topics that are essentially about the same topic over and over again. If he really only wanted to talk about gay issues, he should have joined a gay forum. Then everyone would want to talk about that, and probably the majority of the people would then agree with his views.

I'm more annoyed at how people bring religion/athiesm into several discussions constantly. Though, it is relevant as things like that can influence a person's decisions, it's much the same thing.

I agree with what you are saying about the spam. It is starting to seem like a lot of the older members are thinking that they can just type whatever they want and get away with it.

Yeah. And it's amusing to an extent, but It's not really all that fair most of the time, and that's coming from someone who does get away with it.

A great example would be the welcome thread for that new member who wanted to talk about Final Fantasy XIV. I think it is pretty bad if we have members insulting and spaming in someone's welcome thread. I wonder how many new members we would get if we did that to everyone who joined.

Bingo. That's part of my concerns. I honestly think some members these days are posting more crap than serious posts these days.