Why is FINAL FANTASY VII overrated?

[Zargabaath]

Battle? Not bad. Not much different than FFVI, other than the three characters instead of four, and the addition of Limit Breaks. The long-ass Summon cutscenes did get annoying though.

Graphics? Yay, it's 3D. Yay, they got to 32-bit graphics. They still sucked. Because of Squaresoft's rush, the graphics weren't nearly as refined as other games that were released at about the same time.

Are battles that much different from a Final Fantasy to another? To me, the battles are not that much different; Final Fantasy XII is the most different compared to whole series as it had differences that were very distinguishable.

The "graphics" thing brings along confusion to the debate. On one side you have people saying they were horrible; on the other side you have the many reviews saying how great they were at the time. Have Final Fantasy VII's graphics survived the test of time? No, I would say all old games I haven't because graphics are way better. Do graphics stop me from playing Final Fantasy VII or older games and enjoying them? No. I am a Final Fantasy fan; I may have started off late due to my circumstances but I still went back and beat the main series and some of the spinoffs.

Character Development? Crappy. I mean c'mon, the only things separating one character from another were what weapon they used and the Limit Breaks. Other than that, one character was a carbon-copy of all the rest. You could take all the Materia off of one character and put it on another, and there wouldn't be much difference. The characters barely advanced -- it was the Materia that gained new abilities. This is in direct contrast to every prior Final Fantasy game, in which the character him/herself gained abilities.

I hate to play devil's advocate a little bit, but...
Replace the word "Materia" with "Magicite," and you could say the same about the characters in FF6. And in several cases, the characters in FF6 used the exact same weapons as other characters; the ones that used swords, the ones that used pikes, etc. Sure, you couldn't replicate a magicite, but you could pass it around between the characters, and if a character held the magicite for a certain amount of time, it would have a lasting beneficial effect on that character's stats/that character would learn its spells. I hate to say this about 6, because it's my favorite, but it's true.

There's still a big difference. Magicite was used do develop CHARACTERS -- the character itself advanced. Not the magicite. So, for one thing, every character was different in the sense that it took more than trading equipment to make one character into another. Sure, eventually they could learn the same spells, but the characters would have to learn them -- Edgar and Sabin were two different characters, and making them trade equipment kept them the same characters they were.

For another, each character had their own unique ability that distinguished them from the others. The only unique abilities FFVII had were Limit Breaks. The way I played (at least), limit breaks didn't matter much, as they were "bonuses", not set abilities -- this is in direct contrast to FFVI, where parties were established based on what abilities complimented each other. (For example, you wouldn't want to put Relm with Gau or Umaro, as their attacks might screw up her Control.

What Telegraph said is true, the difference is in how open each system was. In both games you could make any character whatever you wanted with some exclusions. In Final Fantasy VI though the character learned the spell while the materia grew in Final Fantasy VII; so all that you are griping about Sasquatch is "how fast the player can make a character into something". Both system are open, it is not rigid like: Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy IV, or Final Fantasy IX. I would like if they re-introduced special character abilities in the series however in Final Fantasy VI that just makes the unique on a miniscule scale.

Weapons? Oh look, a gigantic sword, so big and unwieldy that nobody could ever realistically use it. Oh look, the bad guy has one, too. Oh look, there are guns -- and apparently, being shot with a machine gun doesn't do any more damaged than being punched or hit with a staff. Wait, what?

I would like to point out something. This something is very imporant for it establishes the rules (somewhat) to the series as a whole and the games individually. Final Fantasy. The games are a fantasy setting so yes, a person could wield a gigantic sword that nobody could realistically use (in Dissidia they do explain which is pretty epic: Cloud can wield the sword because his burdens weigh more than the sword), people can survive multiple gunshot wounds, guns do as much being punched, two blonde, white kids being native to the desert (Vaan and Penelo) and a lot of white people npcs too, Ashe was white and had fair hair, in VIII they still use old weapons, MAGIC, etc. It may not make sense in reality but it does not have to make sense in the first place.

Sidequests? Apart from having completely friggin' useless bosses, mediocre, irrelevant minigames (and an entire city devoted to them), and a Chocobo breeding system that doesn't show its value unless you know from an outside source how to use it ... well, apart from all that, it didn't have much for sidequests.

A lot of optional bosses in the Final Fantasy series haven't been that useful, they are there as a test of strenght and skill to the player to see how well they have used the system. The Gold Saucer was an awesome place; there were many "irrelevant" mini-games, but they were fun, entertaining, and allowed the player to do something else besides continue with the story, grind, etc. I never really did the chocobo breeding system but it is called trial and error. Go to gamefaqs and you will see that people have created walkthroughs of normal and special playthroughs that were done by trial and error to get the most optimized path.

I agree that a lot of these people probably like 7 the best because it was huge for the US's RPG market, although I'm pretty sure it was huge in Japan, too. Remember that poll a few years back that I think Cain posted a link to? The thread is so old that I can't find it anymore (maybe it was deleted?) but FF7 was #2 behind FF10 for Japan's top 100 games ever. (I remember that not one Mario game even made the list, either.) It's been a few years now, so a top 100 list might be different now, but... just sayin'.

Personally, I think FF7 is overrated because a lot of people like it the best, and I don't. A lot of people think that Sephiroth is one of the greatest villains ever, and Cloud is one of the best heroes ever... and I don't (in fact, I'm pretty much flat out tired of Sephiroth by now.) Eh *Shrug* Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

Final Fantasy VII did something that Final Fantasy IV nor Final Fantasy VI did - it brought the Final Fantasy series to a new height in Japan, almost to the level of Dragon Quest, and more importantly it brought the Final Fantasy series outside of Japan to the height it is now. Final Fantasy VII is the most selling Final Fantasy, therefore it would not be irrational to say that a lot of people like Final Fantasy VII or that it is their favourite. Call it envy, jealousy or whatnot, Final Fantasy VI did not have the same affect on the market as Final Fantasy VII plain and simple; the SNES was a very popular console and the playstation was just getting started so it is not due to that.

That list you are talking about Telegraph is the Famitsu Top 100 videogames of all time; it was released in 2006 and yes, Final Fantasy VII was # 2. Where do the Final Fantasys rank on that list?
Final Fantasy - 63
Final Fantasy II - 60
Final Fantasy III - 8
Final Fantasy IV - 6
Final Fantasy V - 15
Final Fantasy VI - 25
Final Fantasy VII - 2
Final Fantasy VIII - 22
Final Fantasy IX - 24
Final Fantasy X - 1
Final Fantasy X-2 - 32

Final Fantasy VII is an over-rated game from the divine praise it gets, especially from people who have not played other games in the series (there are plenty who have only played like VII, X and XII or X-2). However, it is still a great game and one of the best in the series.

As far as their weapons go ... Realistically, different characters are going to be able to use some of the same weapons. Each and every character (save Umaro, of course) could use multiple types of weapon -- staves, spears, swords, daggers, etc. It wouldn't make sense for any character to be able to use one type of weapon and only one type of weapon. That'd be like saying I drive a light pickup truck, so that means I wouldn't be able to drive a larger pickup truck, an SUV, a sports car, a sedan, a station wagon, a golf cart, a semi truck, a farm tractor, etc. etc.

(Of course you have characters with special traits, like Sabin, that can use specific types and none others, but this by no means spreads to the entire cast.)

Think of it as the characters being specialists with their respective weapon type. So those who can wield different weapons may be proficient but not masters. You don't think of Edgar as a swordmaster as Cloud or Auron would be but as being able to use swords.

Actually FF1 was the first to come to our shores. FF4 became 2 on the SNES, FF6 became 3 on the SNES, and then we get FF7 which is actually FF7 on the PS1.

For some reason, we didn't get the actual FF2, 3, 4, 5, 6 until certain PS1 compilations came out. Namely Anthologies with 5 and 6, and Chronicles with 4 and Chrono Trigger.

And then Origins with 1 and 2. Then FF3 on the DS finally.

So yeah... people our age have had plenty of chances to play FF2-3/4-6.

That reason should be known by people here. I'm surprised someone of your calibur would not know. Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI are not relevant because they were released outside of Japan though not with their correct number. Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy III, and Final Fantasy V were not released outside of Japan because Square thought that the rest of the world would not be able to understand/comprehend the game systems for each game i.e., they thought we were dumb. Final Fantasy III also as an added reason: Square did not release outside, though they were thinking of, because Final Fantasy IV was about to be released and that Final Fantasy IV was easier to understand.

Arrogance? hummm no its an opinion, I suggest you look up the word. As thats how pointless this convo is, your arguing opinions.

Your also missing the main point of my rabble, i thought it was pretty clear.

If the final fantasy games prior to 7 were released when everybody else got them i would have played them most likely. I didnt want to play them years after they were made as they look crap and boring to play by then.

Your point about FFVI released on my shores in 1999 (im pretty sure that date is incorrect, for my country anyway), Why didnt i play a 16bit game that was 5 years old in 1999? Because i was busy enjoying the current games that looked alot better and more fun to play.

Refusing not to play other Final Fantasy games and insisting that out of the few or one the player as has played is arrogant, foolish, and very subjective because you are only judging by iteslf or with a few other Final Fantasies. If Person A only played Final Fantasy X-2 and said that was the greatest Final Fantasy of all time and refuses to play the rest - that is stupid and their opinion does not matter or hold weight at all. How can Person A be so sure that Final Fantasy X-2 is the greatest when they have/will not play the rest of the series to validate their opinion? By not doing so that shows that Person A maybe scared that another Final Fantasy maybe better and that their old favourite was crappy and that they were foolish to think that Final Fantasy X-2 was the greatest.

The graphics of a game do not a game crappy, bad, horrible, etc (except for Constantine for PS2 that was very crappy that it is allowed to take a toll on an already bad game). The first Final Fantasy I beat was FF X, but I wanted to go back and play I-IX because they were Final Fantasies and my friends had said that they were good. Graphics should always be the least most important factor in grading an RPG. Lair looks better than Final Fantasy 16-bit era of Final Fantasy, but those games are better than it.

[nix]

Refusing not to play other Final Fantasy games and insisting that out of the few or one the player as has played is arrogant, foolish, and very subjective because you are only judging by iteslf or with a few other Final Fantasies. If Person A only played Final Fantasy X-2 and said that was the greatest Final Fantasy of all time and refuses to play the rest - that is stupid and their opinion does not matter or hold weight at all. How can Person A be so sure that Final Fantasy X-2 is the greatest when they have/will not play the rest of the series to validate their opinion? By not doing so that shows that Person A maybe scared that another Final Fantasy maybe better and that their old favourite was crappy and that they were foolish to think that Final Fantasy X-2 was the greatest.

The graphics of a game do not a game crappy, bad, horrible, etc (except for Constantine for PS2 that was very crappy that it is allowed to take a toll on an already bad game). The first Final Fantasy I beat was FF X, but I wanted to go back and play I-IX because they were Final Fantasies and my friends had said that they were good. Graphics should always be the least most important factor in grading an RPG. Lair looks better than Final Fantasy 16-bit era of Final Fantasy, but those games are better than it.

Show me where i said FF7 was the greatest in the series... Ok you cant, because i didnt...

FF7 is my fav FF ive played, nothing more.. i refuse to play the FF's before meerley because i dont enjoy playing dated games (Yes ive tried). It may not be a factor for you, but it is for me, in the end its own personnel taste, i enjoy good graphics aswell as the rest.

And to this day FF7 is still half decent to play, alot easier on the eye than FFVI and all FF's before, it raised the bar alot higher than the ones before did in terms of everything, and thats why it gets deemed over rated.

[Zargabaath]

Show me where i said FF7 was the greatest in the series... Ok you cant, because i didnt...

FF7 is my fav FF ive played, nothing more.. i refuse to play the FF's before meerley because i dont enjoy playing dated games (Yes ive tried). It may not be a factor for you, but it is for me, in the end its own personnel taste, i enjoy good graphics aswell as the rest.

And to this day FF7 is still half decent to play, alot easier on the eye than FFVI and all FF's before, it raised the bar alot higher than the ones before did in terms of everything, and thats why it gets deemed over rated.

First part I was going along with what Sasquatch said and so the "being very subjective because you are only..." was meant as the player, not specifically you; my error.

You are a sad part of the gaming community where graphics are such an important part of what games you play and like. Unfortunately it appears you cannot see that graphics don't make the game, especially with RPGs, so you will have this "poor" taste in video games till you mature in this aspect.

Let me know when Final Fantasy VII becomes dated because that's when you won't be able to play your favourite Final Fantasy. It would be interesting to know how much of a fan to the series you are and how great or how much you liked Final Fantasy VII. If Final Fantasy VII is one of your favourite games of all time it would be hilarious to hear you explain how you don't like playing one of your favourite games because you are a "graphics lady of the evening" (I'm not calling you a woman if you aren't either*).

[nix]

I can't argue with you, you clearly haven't read any of my posts or grasped my point to any extent.

Your also being very very ignorant yourself, as if your view on games is the be all and end all of how games should be rated. Wake the **** up mate, everybody has a preference and ive better things to be doing with my time than playing a game thats more than 15 years old and looks and sounds like complete poo.

FFVI looks like shit, FFVII doesnt..

[Zargabaath]

If the final fantasy games prior to 7 were released when everybody else got them i would have played them most likely. I didnt want to play them years after they were made as they look crap and boring to play by then.


Plus FF8 was out that year, and soul calibur, tiberian sun, system shock2, counter strike, i was knee deep in great games to play, oh wait hang on!!, let me whip out my snes and play a game thats over 5 years old instead! bah!

With your "irrationality" a game that is old is boring to play, but when it was new it would/could have been enjoyable. Do you see how flawed and irrational that is? How old a game is does not impact how fun the game is. If a game is fun then it is fun. Videogames do not age like milk. Also you seem to be worried about playing the latest "hip" games out because of some insecurity you may have in playing an old game and beeing seen as a "loser"; that's what I'm feeling here.

I can't argue with you, you clearly haven't read any of my posts or grasped my point to any extent.

Your also being very very ignorant yourself, as if your view on games is the be all and end all of how games should be rated. Wake the **** up mate, everybody has a preference and ive better things to be doing with my time than playing a game thats more than 15 years old and looks and sounds like complete poo.

FFVI looks like shit, FFVII doesnt..

I have read your posts. I do grasp your "points". Your "points" are irrational. Your "points" show how much of a fan of videogames you are which turns out you are mainly, excuse my bluntness everybody else as I held back last time, a graphics whore. That is a major part of why you game, forget about gameplay, story, characters, music, all which are more important in an RPG and for most other genres as well. Graphics are at the low end of the spectrum; realizing that or not is up to the individual and if they don't it makes them a fool.

Because all 15 year old games look and sould like poo and are horrible to play. Because graphics are the end all, be all of what games people should play. While Final Fantasy VI may not be my favourite, and I feel over-rated, the music from that game is tied, in my opinion, for first place in the entire series; tons of great sounding songs from a SNES game. There are tons of games that had great music back in the day, but to say that all old games are complete trash when you have not played them are don't give them a fair chance because you are ageist relating to games.

[nix]

I should as to this that apparently, with your "irrationality" a game that is old is boring to play, but when it was new it would/could have been enjoyable. Do you see how flawed and irrational that is? How old a game is does not impact how fun the game is. If a game is fun then it is fun. Videogames do not age like milk. Also you seem to be worried about playing the latest "hip" games out because of some insecurity you may have in playing an old game and beeing seen as a "loser"; that's what I'm feeling here..

Because when it was first released it would have been the best graphics available, i wouldnt have known any better. However only given the option years later to play it, it was extremely dated in comparison to what was available. And i was busy playing other better games than a side scroll 2d rpg which offered nothing new in terms of gameplay.

The only good point it could have had was a good story, but hey i have books for that

Heck FFXII's graphics were amazing, but it was the biggest pile of shit ever, i gave up on that too.

The game has to grip me and pull me in, im not easily amused, perhaps thats the problem here?

RPG's are easy, the only thing they can offer is story and graphics, nothing more, if it doesnt have both, im not gonna play it. I'll play something else, simple as that..