Under What Circumstances Would You Commit Murder?

[Sinister]

Interesting responses all based on the hypothetical situation where your friends and loved-ones are threatened. But you wouldn't seek out vengence had the deed already been done? Just asking.


For myself, I must draw on my experiences of 22 years of living life and remind myself that I have yet to meet a person so horrendous that I thought they deserved to die. I've met a lot of people. I doubt heavily that I am likely to meet such a person. I just don't swim in those kind of circles where you would meet those sort of people.

But this is all hypothetical, so I shall use my imagination. I meet another vile person but this one is special. He subsists on making people miserable and torturing them through circumstances and manipulating them. Something that I've yet to see being successfully accomplished. And he must be extraordinarily rude and disgusting. My penultimate pet-peeve.

He sets his sights on me, or godforbid, my loved-ones. Anything less than that would not warrant murder. Just a very serious punking. Notice that I made no comment on tense. If he had done the deed or if he had threatened to, would make little difference to me.

My MO would vary considerably on what form his MO would take. I would make it appropriate.



Now the most important part, my rationalization:

I am Taoist by religion. No actual judgements or sets of law save that one follows the Tao at all times. Like enough, this keeps one from harm or causing harm. So really no need to rationalize save just to do it.

[Furore]

Interesting responses all based on the hypothetical situation where your friends and loved-ones are threatened. But you wouldn't seek out vengence had the deed already been done? Just asking.

Actually my post suggested quite the opposite. I would only kill someone if they killed my loved love ones. If they were simply out to kill them I'd just beat some sense into the bastards til they realised killing my loved ones would not be a very good thing to do.

If a person was to kill another I believe they should have a damned fine reason. Not liking someone or believing they'll do something just ain't enough. Hell I reckon if you're capable of killing someone before this criteria is met than you're really insane and a danger to all of those around you.
But that's just me. Maybe that sort of insanity would be justifiable elsewhere?
Hell in some parts of the world it might be necessary.

[Sinister]

Actually my post suggested quite the opposite. I would only kill someone if they killed my loved love ones. If they were simply out to kill them I'd just beat some sense into the bastards til they realised killing my loved ones would not be a very good thing to do.

If a person was to kill another I believe they should have a damned fine reason. Not liking someone or believing they'll do something just ain't enough. Hell I reckon if you're capable of killing someone before this criteria is met than you're really insane and a danger to all of those around you.
But that's just me. Maybe that sort of insanity would be justifiable elsewhere?
Hell in some parts of the world it might be necessary.

Okay, I think I understand then. But it arises some interesting questions that could evolve the topic. Don't get me wrong, I agree and commend with your descision to kill them even though the deed is done.

The logic behind killing a black widow spider crawling next to a baby is direct and obvious, is it not? Prevention. But the logic behind killing a black widow spider after it had already bit the baby is a little more illusive. You would not have taught the spider anything and you would have compounded death with more death only to show your disdain and lack of compunction for slaughtering something.

Vengeance. Justifying vengeance may be harder to do than justifying murder. It is a natural reaction, yes. But the only really logical reason would be to prevent something, which has already occurred, from occurring yet again. You can, for instance, justify thusly: "I killed the spider to prevent it from killing other babies around the world." Which is silly due to the number of deadly spiders that exist.

Or you can go my favorite path. Forego justification. You are the subjective master of your own existence. Logic means little to the injuries of the heart. Vengeance gives one peace of mind and a feeling of closure. To prize that higher than the life of some evil scum is no great departure from sanity. To twist it further by adding appropriate tortures and subtlety is an embellishment you might even derive pleasure from. Even schadenfreude can be understood, although not exactly justified.


For myself. I would kill someone who earnestly threatens my friends and family. I don't doubt it for a second and wouldn't flinch to do it.

[BenRampage]

Well if a robber broke into my house and was gonna hurt my family or if someone was gonna hurt or kill anyone in my family id get them first. Nobody screws with me or my family. But murder is the last option casue i dont wanna see a jail cell haha.

[Furore]

Okay, I think I understand then. But it arises some interesting questions that could evolve the topic. Don't get me wrong, I agree and commend with your descision to kill them even though the deed is done.

The logic behind killing a black widow spider crawling next to a baby is direct and obvious, is it not? Prevention. But the logic behind killing a black widow spider after it had already bit the baby is a little more illusive. You would not have taught the spider anything and you would have compounded death with more death only to show your disdain and lack of compunction for slaughtering something.

Vengeance. Justifying vengeance may be harder to do than justifying murder. It is a natural reaction, yes. But the only really logical reason would be to prevent something, which has already occurred, from occurring yet again. You can, for instance, justify thusly: "I killed the spider to prevent it from killing other babies around the world." Which is silly due to the number of deadly spiders that exist.

Or you can go my favorite path. Forego justification. You are the subjective master of your own existence. Logic means little to the injuries of the heart. Vengeance gives one peace of mind and a feeling of closure. To prize that higher than the life of some evil scum is no great departure from sanity. To twist it further by adding appropriate tortures and subtlety is an embellishment you might even derive pleasure from. Even schadenfreude can be understood, although not exactly justified.


For myself. I would kill someone who earnestly threatens my friends and family. I don't doubt it for a second and wouldn't flinch to do it.

Actually, me being me I don't think I could kill the black widow spider or any other animal that killed a loved one. Why? Because I'd know that the animal in question didn't kill them out of anything other than instincts or a feeling of being threatened or something.

The reason I believe I would kill a person who killed my love ones is that they knew what they were doing. And it would pain me all my days knowing that someone who purposely killed a love one of mine was walking free.

See it's my way of thinking that someone who is unknowing of the crime they committed would be innocent of it. The same would go with a person who is totally insane. I couldn't kill someone like that. Because I see them as not being in control of their actions. People like these I would attempt to capture instead and force to get help in whatever way they could. Bringing someone like to a better state of mind, or a lifetime of looney-bin living would be all the closure I'd need.

And I could never kill someone just threatening someone I care about. Simply as they had really not done anything yet. As I said earlier, all I'd do to them is give them a good hiding til they decide that it's really not worth threatening my loved ones.

[Sinister]

Actually, me being me I don't think I could kill the black widow spider or any other animal that killed a loved one. Why? Because I'd know that the animal in question didn't kill them out of anything other than instincts or a feeling of being threatened or something.

Why does that keep you from killing it? If something has power over you enough to obliterate you and the ones you love and has no hesitation to use it, what difference does it make about it's motivations? That it's acting on instinct or some other natural force, shields it from you?

The reason I believe I would kill a person who killed my love ones is that they knew what they were doing. And it would pain me all my days knowing that someone who purposely killed a love one of mine was walking free.

Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself. That is the rationalization! The mental anguish is not something that the wronged should have to bear, but the criminal. What right does a criminal have to, through impunity, kill and inflict ever worse wounds upon the loved ones and then leave them to their own suffering.

See it's my way of thinking that someone who is unknowing of the crime they committed would be innocent of it. The same would go with a person who is totally insane. I couldn't kill someone like that. Because I see them as not being in control of their actions. People like these I would attempt to capture instead and force to get help in whatever way they could. Bringing someone like to a better state of mind, or a lifetime of looney-bin living would be all the closure I'd need.

And I could never kill someone just threatening someone I care about. Simply as they had really not done anything yet. As I said earlier, all I'd do to them is give them a good hiding til they decide that it's really not worth threatening my loved ones.

This is very altruistic of you, but be careful in employing this idea. It brings us back to the spider. It has the power, it uses it without the slightest care or thought for the repercussions. It doesn't hate. It doesn't like. It just destroys. What sort of life would you be ending? A happy one? A valuable one? Whilst it has already ended(or is about to) the lives you value the most.

IMO, Insanity is not an excuse. It's a handicap.


Anyway. I understand what you mean Celtic and it is an excellent point. I don't mean to change such an admirable position. I was just trying to show my own train of thought. And I'm glad that we all had this discussion. This thread is already worth ten times the effort, with which, I thought it up.

-Sin

[some guy]

Mmm, I'm really getting into these intellectual discussions, even though I believe I'm not that smart but some people come up with some great things to ponder over, and this is one of them.
One of my friends asked me a while ago in a maths class "would you ever kill anyone?", me being the angry little bastard I am replied "yes" which scared the crap out of him. Although I just said that to him to scare him, I personally don't think I would have to balls to murder anyone (.....personally >.> lol). But if it were for revenge that brings up "you're only as bad as he is". But Maybe with the right....or really I should say wrong motivation, I would, but that would have to be in the lowest of all low day's in were EVERYTHING is going wrong, and someone is absolutely f*cking up my life purposely, then I would think of a mere stabbing.....no murder....

[Confession]

Ok now this thread brings many things into retrospect.

"Would you kill"

I believe that in any situation where a person knew their life was in jeporady, they would completely defend themselves even if "murder" was the outcome.
I'm not saying that all people would just kill at anytime im saying that it is an animalistic adaptation for us to defend oursleves to the death. I would not kill in cold blood although I say it alot to make people be quiet. It is only an instinct few people have the possestion