RagnaToad
Shake it like a polaroid picture

I'm just messing with you. It's my sense of humor to say really weird things sometimes. You'll either get used to it, or hate me. Either one. (Please don't hate me though, because I think you're cool )

Wuv, Yer Mom

Does it make ya want to stab them in the neck? Cut out their intestines? Decapitate them and spit down their throats? ...whoah, you're pretty violent, man! That's scary!

Wuv, Yer Mom

I know me Sheena told me to stop...

Messing with me? MESSING WITH ME?! I will OBLITERATE YOU... AGAIN!!

Doesn't "literally" mean it actually happened? Like, you actually did it, as opposed to figuratively, which is... not literally...? I need to go back to school... or get a dictionary... or both...

Wuv, Yer Mom

I did, man! You should've seen it! (Actually, it's best that you didn't; it probably would've been unpleasant...)

Wuv, Yer Mom

No it does not! I'm just saying that one can argue that the shunning of individual rights does seem to have some kind of positive effect.

In NZ our left has moved consistently right. We had arguably the best welfare system of the 1930s, and Keynesianism was all over the show. Now we have elected a right government, and things are going to sh*t, but it wasn't a lot better under the old Labour goverment. So yeah, Europe sounds good, apart from those ultra-nationalists I see elected to the European parliament. Enlightenment seems lost on them.

Well, yes, you and I see it as negative, but we are socialists. To others (fascists or just of right persuasion), taking away individual rights for a big picture is their idea of a good system. Look at Singapore, where it is illegal for immigrant workers to get pregnant, and they give $10,000 to poor people who get sterilised. That's utterly disgusting to me, but look at Singapore's economic growth, so there's something good in it (though, from a socialist perspective, very easy to critiscise).

Hmm yeah, the USSR kinda made being a socialist a dirty word, just like calling yourself a fascist would be, well, stupid. Even though calling yourself a fascist doesn't actually make you a neo-nazi, bigotted, anti-semitic [insert closing insult], as much as I hate the right.

So Orwell implies, through A.F., that the initial, innocent, and necessary revolution was betrayed?

My edition of Animal Farm contains the preface to the edition that was smuggled under the Iron Curtain. In it, Orwell states: "...in my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of Socialism as the belief that Russia is a Socialist country and that every act of it's rulers must be excused, if not imitated." Animal Farm is Orwell's means to expose "the Soviet myth". But does this exposure extend to a criticism of the initial revolution? He was a socialist, not a communist, so he wouldn't have blindly followed Marxian predictions for a global uprising of the proles, but surely he would've looked favourably on the Russian Revolution (not what happened beyond that) at least on some level?

Do you know there are four lines of text added into the radio adaptation of Animal Farm to further highlight the turning point?
Clover: Do you think that it is quite fair to appropriate the apples?
Molly: What, keep all the apples for themselves?
Muriel: Aren't we to have any?
Cow: I thought they were going to be shared out equally.
Although not written by Orwell, they highlight the failure of Soviet Russia, and it's complete betrayal of socialist/communist principles.

Hmm, true. Even a die hard "socialist" would have to ignore a lot to maintain a positive outlook on the USSR. But my question is this: is Animal Farm anti-revolution? With such a strong critique, it's hard to say that he holds onto a socialist principal of the time, namely that revolution of the proletariat was inevitable and desireable.

Ha! Thanks, man. I'll remember that. Bitches, booze, and peace.

Actually it was in discussion for a few weeks I guess in the staff forum. I had no clue until I got a message one day asking if I was interested. A few minutes later I replied and went to bed and by the time I got up to go to work the next morning it was all taken care of.

It's a huge critiscism! At the end, things are just as bad under Napoleon as under Mr. Jones.

Well, no, I suppose you can, but I just think it's a very strong condemnation from a socialist, especially when many of the English intelligentsia of the time were quite pro-Soviet (even to the extent of ignoring Ukrainian famines completely, in order to further support their stance).

I want to be able to read it just as a story, but the symbology is too strong. Ideology is always going to effect the tale, and I just think Animal Farm is too strong on critiscism of the Soviet regime for a socialist. Then again, the Soviet Union didn't really have any good aspects...