What does it mean to be an American?

[Victoria]

This kid knows.

Arkansas Times

He's 10, but skipped a grade from third to fifth. One day, he decides not to stand for the pledge of allegiance, because there really is no "liberty and justice for all".

I wish more kids were more badass and smart like him, personally. My favorite moment was that near the end of the week of his refusal to stand for the pledge, is that the substitute teacher got frustrated and began to yell at him, and he got so flustered, that he didn't really pay attention to what she said.

But he simply said, "With all due respect, ma'am, please go jump off a bridge."

The kid's answer to the question is simply, "Freedom of speech; the freedom to disagree. That's what I think pretty much what it means to be American."

The point is, he is refusing to stand because gays/lesbians do not have liberty and justice. They do not have the right to marry or adopt as of yet; and he won't stand until they do.
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So what do you guys think about this? What do you do during the national anthem?

Personally, I only stand. I don't put my hand to my heart. Which is basically just meeting halfway.

I believe in what my country represents, but I don't believe that it's up to the standards of what it represents.


I heard about this news article from a podcast I subscribe to, Geek Nights by Rym and Scott.



EDIT: ...Maybe I should have put this in Gen Chat instead...?

[Tiffany]

That's awesome.

Being Canadian I don't do the whole pledging allegiance thing.... but I definitely like what this kid is trying to convey!

[Unknown Entity]

"With all due respect, ma'am, please go jump off a bridge."

I like that kids style. He certainly does know what the Pledge of Allegiance means, and for him to make a stand like that he has my full support. If Americans believe in the right of free speech, then really... no one can say anything about him not standing. I believe a lot of people could learn from his example. A ten year old who knows the different between right and wrong to this level is someone who I believe to be admirable.

As for the other children at his school who take the piss out of him because he is doing this because of gay/lesbian rights need to grow up. They're a fine example of the complete opposite of Will Phillips, and should take a leaf from his book.

I take my hat off to him, and can only hope my children in the future turn out like him. Muchos respect.

[Zerobanshee]

I highly agree with what Sheena is saying. I believe in what my country represents, but I also believe that the country is falling short in what it's trying to represent.

I fully enjoy that, even though this kid is 10 years old, he understands that denying another human being the rights that we have is wrong. He's more American than most Adults I know.

I'd pat this kid on the shoulder, if I seen him in person. Keep up the good work, kiddo.

[Josh_R]

Personally being a Marine I always stand for the pledge of allegiance, while doing so I feel I am honoring all of my fellow soldiers who are currently on the battlefield.

Clearly even thought his child is young he still understand's the current situation in the U.S.A. sounds a little like myself when I was that age...Ahhh those were the days trying to rebel against all simply cause I had yet too figure out how the world truly works, and let me tell you the world is a f*cked up son of a bitch...

[OnOneRyder]

I hate it when I see so much potential in a nations people to become better but for some reason as a whole they fall short. Everyone I know who is american is a truely good person. We may have differing views, in some instances I considering them to be bat-shit wacky...but fundamentally I know that they have good hearts and want the best for everyone else. So why is it that we cannot have this attitude as a whole? It seems that whenever people get together, the good things are smothered by everyone's individual greed's and very little is achieved. It's good to see such strong morals in people so young such as this child...unfortunately more than likely he will follow suite with the rest of the masses.

[Govinda]

It means you have an American passport. The rest is made up.

But props to the kid. I can only imagine how many kids at his school are calling him gay. It's a clever move too - he wants to be a lawyer, and coverage of this will have been noted.

[Reverend Red Mage]

One wouldn't expect this kind of thing from a 10-year-old in Arkansas.

I used to be in the military myself (Air Force) and I had to stand/salute for the Pledge/Anthem, despite the fact that I completely disagree with the pledge.

We are certainly not one nation under God (a change that was made in the 1950's by an act of Congress, mind you) and there definitely isn't liberty and justice for all, as the kid pointed out.

I really have no idea where he got "freedom of speech, freedom to disagree", or if he thought of it himself. I'm going to adopt it. Hopefully this kid becomes the next president.

[Alpha]

The whole pledge thing sounds... socialist. This is from Wikipedia. Say if it's wrong (IDK).

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850-1898).

Possibly the word 'socialist' is used incorrectly.

This is the kind of thing they do in Communist states. There's nothing like that here at all. I mean, isn't the point of your country to dissent? To be 'American' (though it is hardly just an American thing) is to have the right to hold an individual opinion. Swearing an oath of loyalty to liberal individualism is in and by itself a contradiction. I think this is what this boy alludes to beyond the gay rights statement.

However, big props to this kid, he's right on the money with the gay rights. Too bad it's far more insidious than just marriage, and goes far further than just homosexuals.

[SOLDIER #819]

Swearing an oath of loyalty to liberal individualism is in and by itself a contradiction.

A lot of things about America are contradictory, honestly. Putting aside blatant issues, at a more fundamental level we're taught that this country stands for or embodies various ideals. Like freedom and equality. I tend to be under the impression that they run contrary to one another, particularly in economics. No doubt other examples exist though.

If anything I would say that Americans, more than those of other countries, tend to value freedom over equality. That is, rather than attempting to take an objective look at what it means to be equal, we use our vested rights and freedoms to decide on a definition of equality that suits the majority of a particular time. And since people do not change all too quickly it takes a number of generations before the status quo is broken.

I personally hope that boy's beliefs will represent the vast majority of his generation. Then, at least, something will definitely change.

[Phantom]

Wow, and this is from a 10 year old boy? Badass indeed. Reading that kinda got me thinking as well. I, as a gay man, am not allowed to adopt children in most or the majority of most states in the US, nor can I get married in the majority of most US states (which sucks serious ice cubes), and this is supposed to be a land with "liberty and justice" for all? I wish I had that boy's guts and bravery when I was his age, he's a true inspiration. Is it just me or does anyone else sense some hypocrisy in the US pledge?

I remember being told as a kid that our "four fathers" made the USA a land built of equality, but I believe that saying has gotten so twisted up over the last few centuries by corrupt officials, Radical extremist groups, and the ever largely conservative standards of what the "Amercian Dream" must and should be, rather then what "Everyone wants their "own" Amercian Dream to be".


Anyone else agree? But yeah from me to that brave 10 year old kid, I salute you, if we had more kids like that speaking their minds then hey the US could be changed for the better. I'm voting that kid for president if he decides to run when he grows up.

[Heartless Angel]

The kid's not alone. About a quarter of my graduating class refused to say the pledge because our school denied the creation of a club for homosexuals that someone wanted to start.

It was a close friend of mine who happens to be a lesbian, so I was in on the entire thing, as were about 30 others. We got some teachers involved in spreading the word. Once we had enough support to be noticed by everyone, we began. After about a month of pissing the school off, they got their club. And throughout the whole thing, if anybody asked us why we weren't standing, or telling us we had to, we all responded "In this school, every word of it is a lie. Until that changes, I won't say it." The deathblow however came at the homecoming game. The girl they got to sing the anthem was a lesbian, so we got her in on it as well. When she was supposed to sing, she just stood up and stayed silent. It was the day after that, the school gave in. Protest like this hits people where it hurts.