The Spirit World

[kurohime]

Does Anyone out there think that there is something out there, more than humanity?
Have you ever seen anything or heard anything you cant quite explain.
im talking about the spirit world . It exists,but does anyone have an opinion.

[OnOneRyder]

It exists? First off if you want to speak as an intellect do not speak in absolutes on subjects that are speculative.

Yes I have seen/experienced things that threw me off at the moment, some of which I still can't explain to this day. IMO this doesn't mean the occurrence was in anyway supernatural, my mind just didn't receive enough information to come to a reasonable conclusion. I do believe there to be more out there that we cannot fully comprehend, however I don't think this should be considered supernatural or a different "world". I simply think it's simply a part of existence our senses are not designed to observe, acknowledge, understand or comprehend in full. It's like sound or light, both of which occur in waves which are fully discernible by modern measuring instruments OR by animals who've evolved to utilize them. This doesn't make them supernatural or otherworldly, they're simply not something we've evolved to recognize easily in our daily lives.

[Bubble Boy]

I believe in a spirit realm...most definitely.

I also believe there is life on far distant planets.

But speaking of "ghosts" or the "afterlife" sense...yes, there has to be one. I have put my faith into it. It would really bum me out if there was nothing after you die. If your faith is strong enough, there will be something.

[LIGHTNING_71013]

i believe in this kind of stuff...and the very first post of this thread explains why...0_0 (its a bit long but the exciting part is near the end. on and its TRUE, you gotta believe it!!!)

http://thefinalfantasy.net/forums/ge...periences.html

[palette]

Well the way I see this is that there isn't really any argument to be made. There isn't any real controversy here either.

It's really all about your personal experiences and what you believe in. Science really doesn't try to prove or disprove it, science is applied in many different ways.

Some people try to prove the paranormal, others might try to disprove it. There are several explanations for the paranormal, some are rational and some are experimental and a little more "innovative".

The arguments really begin when you start to consider the other persons side of the story, and can't accept what they perceive as they have perceived it. I personally believe that the paranormal is really sort of like religion, only people believe to have more video/ photo evidence of it and have more stories encountering it.

There are several discoveries that have been made, about numerous different things in our galaxy, and many of them we have no clue of their origin.

Scientifically speaking I'd say it's plausible that these things exist.

[tetsu346]

i have seen things shadows , dark orbs and heard voices when i was out in the desert and i wish i could have said i imagined it but i cant

[kurohime]

i have seen things shadows , dark orbs and heard voices when i was out in the desert and i wish i could have said i imagined it but i cant

I can see the shadows too. the first time i saw them was when i was 5 years old. it scared me at first, but i grown accustomed to them popping up out of no where they are spirit gaurdians. I also hear the voices.

[Reverend Red Mage]

Show me real, concrete evidence of this spirit realm.

And no, I don't mean "feelings" or "faith". When you resort to "faith", it's a cop-out; you're admitting that you cannot go by knowledge and/or evidence.

The posts I'm seeing so far are nothing more than confirmation bias. You see/hear what you want to.

Personally, I'm still unconvinced that people can actually define what "spirit" means.

[Ragnarok]

Show me real, concrete evidence of this spirit realm.

And no, I don't mean "feelings" or "faith". When you resort to "faith", it's a cop-out; you're admitting that you cannot go by knowledge and/or evidence.

The posts I'm seeing so far are nothing more than confirmation bias. You see/hear what you want to.

Personally, I'm still unconvinced that people can actually define what "spirit" means.

I think you're asking a bit too much in regards to "concrete evidence". It isn't something you can just box up and save for a later date when an unbeliever like yourself says "prove it". Some things in this world has to be, at least for the time being, left to a belief structure. Science is just another belief structure, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Sure, it works out for the most part, but there's still a lot of things that science can't explain. So since you want "concrete evidence" as to the existence of another plane or dimension or whatever, I'm going to have to be that guy that flips it on you and says "prove that it isn't". The difference between you and I is the fact that I'm aware you can't satisfy my demands and I'm okay with that. Just because we believe different things doesn't make either of us wrong.

[Reverend Red Mage]

I think you're asking a bit too much in regards to "concrete evidence". It isn't something you can just box up and save for a later date when an unbeliever like yourself says "prove it".

And why can't it be? So you mean to tell me that you're making the claims now, without worrying about whether they're true or not? Why do such a thing? I thought a person's beliefs guided their actions and decisions. If that is the case, would you not want to do everything you can to confirm your beliefs to be true? Guess what... the way to do that is science.

Some things in this world has to be, at least for the time being, left to a belief structure.

I agree.

Science is just another belief structure, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

I don't have to admit anything, because this statement is just false. That's basically like saying science is a religion, which it clearly isn't. Science is the very antithesis of religion. I know this. And I'm not even a scientist.

Sure, it works out for the most part, but there's still a lot of things that science can't explain. So since you want "concrete evidence" as to the existence of another plane or dimension or whatever, I'm going to have to be that guy that flips it on you and says "prove that it isn't".

Ay, and there's the rub. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the textbook argumentum ad ignorantium, or argument from ignorance. Don't get me wrong, Ragnarok, this is not a personal attack on you. I mean "ignorance" here in its most literal definition; "lack of knowledge", not "stupidity". If there are things science can't explain, then inserting woo-woo spirit realm stuff into the gaps between scientific knowledge isn't going to make it true simply because we haven't filled in the blanks.

Also, the "prove that it isn't" argument, or proving a negative, doesn't work. If I asserted to you that there is an invisible purple dragon living in my garage, naturally you'd say "pics or there isn't one." Anyone would. Would I be justified in saying, according to your logic, "Prove to me that he isn't there."? No, of course not.

The difference between you and I is the fact that I'm aware you can't satisfy my demands and I'm okay with that. Just because we believe different things doesn't make either of us wrong.

I never said you were wrong about your beliefs, Ragnarok. People are completely entitled to believe whatever they want. However, if you're going to make factual claims about the spirit world, a realm for which I have yet to see any sort of evidence, then I'm justified in demanding it. Believe it or not, irrational thinking does lead to harm.

Just as a kind of off-topic example, there are actually people who think that they can use mass telekinesis to clean up the oil spill.

[ExQuentin]

I do believe in planes. The astral plane would be concitered the spirit realm I guess. I have dreams I meet deceased people and they talk to me sometimes. It is quite strange, but rare. I have never traveled to the astral plane, but tried.

[Alisbet]

Well, that does sound rather interesting, there is also something in my mind that i am going to say right now as we speak. There is 3 aspects that constitutes a person. First, there is the soul that defines a person and basically gives it life, then, there is the body that gives the person physical form and lastly, there is the conscience that basically makes the person aware. If you like, I can create a new thread dedicated to this subject.

[Reverend Red Mage]

Well, that does sound rather interesting, there is also something in my mind that i am going to say right now as we speak. There is 3 aspects that constitutes a person. First, there is the soul that defines a person and basically gives it life, then, there is the body that gives the person physical form and lastly, there is the conscience that basically makes the person aware. If you like, I can create a new thread dedicated to this subject.

This constitutes an ignorance of basic physiology.
Of course your body gives you physical form; nobody is going to argue with that. However, you forget that your brain, which is responsible for your mind and 'conscience', is also a part of the body. It is what gives a person life; no mind, no body to control. Once your brain ceases to function, you're dead.

Again, offer me a definition of what this "soul" is and what part of the anatomy it's in. Is it in the brain? The skin? Toenails? Where?

I'm going to offer my opinion that "spirit" and "soul" are nothing more than unnecessarily pluralities. They are the way for us to explain difficult concepts such as altruism and self-awareness, two things that many neurologists are working on explaining to this day.

[Alisbet]

Well, all that I can say is this: we the humans in the entire history of our existence has always sought guidance in symbols and rituals at least in major turning points in our lives. The belief in 'god', 'soul' and 'afterlife' is among those things. if this bothers you so much, you can just ignore it.