Here's something interesting

[Zardoch]

'Gay' Reaction to Mrs. Stachowicz’s Murder: Silence to Applause 12/4/2002
By Allyson Smith
"I really don't feel sorry for her. She paid a very steep price for being an arrogant religious fascist. Too bad for her." – "Iris," in a posting on the ACLU Online Forum.

"Quite frankly, if anyone in this case was being ‘persecuted’ it was Mr. Gutierrez. Unfortunately for the victim this was a lesson that she learned too hard and too late. Maybe this will give pause to other people who similarly try to ‘help’ homosexuals." — "Silence Dogood," on ACLU Online Forum.

In the three weeks since Mary Stachowicz was murdered by homosexual Nicholas Gutierrez in Chicago, some pro-homosexualists have reacted with much more sympathy for the ‘gay’ killer than for his Christian victim. In fact, several even have gone as far as saying that Mrs. Stachowicz deserved to die for questioning the man’s lifestyle.

Predictably, the mainstream media and homosexual advocacy organizations have reacted to Mary Stachowicz’s murder the same way they did to 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising’s torture-murder at the hands of two homosexual men in 1999: by avoiding it.

As of December 4, no formal condemnations of Mrs. Stachowicz’s murder have been issued by leading groups such as the Human Rights Campaign, the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, or the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.

Soulforce, a group that works in churches to oppose the traditional Christian view of homosexuality, issued no press statement, but a spokeswoman did give a quote to The Washington Times:

"We condemn this murder, like we do all murders," said Laura Montgomery Rutt, spokeswoman for Soulforce. "A hate crime needs to have an intent to intimidate a whole class of people. If in this case, it was directed at this person and intended to intimidate Christians, that would be a hate crime in my mind."

A devout Catholic, Mary Stachowicz met her martyrdom while working at the Sikorski Funeral Home on Chicago’s northwest side, where she got to know Gutierrez, 19, who lived in a second-floor apartment above the funeral home. On the afternoon of November 13, Stachowicz attended Mass at St. Hyacinth parish across the street, then returned to the funeral home and went to visit Gutierrez in his apartment.

According to Chicago police, an argument broke out when Mrs. Stachowicz lectured Gutierrez about his lifestyle and his lack of direction in life. Gutierrez later told police that he had issues with his mother and that the way Stachowicz was talking to him gave him flashbacks of his mother that angered him.

When Stachowicz asked him, "Why do you [have sex with] boys instead of girls?" Gutierrez snapped. In a fit of rage, he punched, kicked, stabbed and strangled the 51-year-old wife and mother of four. Gutierrez then stuffed her body into a crawl space under the floor of his apartment, where it remained for two days until he confessed to police.

Family members were baffled by Stachowicz’s disappearance. They posted fliers in neighborhoods, and her daughter made a public plea for her safe return.

"My sister is very healthy. She's very stable. She has the closest family you can imagine," Stachowicz’s younger sister, Alice Kosinski, told NBC5.com. "Her faith would not allow for anything out of the ordinary."

After learning of Gutierrez’s confession, Stachowicz’s loved ones agreed that the circumstances of her murder were in keeping with her character. Kosinski told The Chicago Tribune, "Because she's so Catholic, there's no room for being gay in the Catholic Church."

Friend Mary Coleman said, "Those of us who knew her immediately hear her soft voice saying something like, 'God wouldn't approve of the way you're living your life.’ That's how Mary did things."

Rev. Francis Rog of St. Hyacinth Church told ABC 7 Chicago news, "She was a very intense person, concerned about the good of the parish, always seeking things for the poor as well as spiritual welfare for people."

Police recovered Stachowicz’s body on November 15 and charged Gutierrez two days later with first-degree murder, concealing a homicidal death, and burglary for attempting to steal money from Stachowicz’s purse.

Chicago local media reported these events, choosing headlines devoid of the words "gay" or "homosexual." In contrast, several homosexual publications – including Gay.com/PlanetOut.com, Gay People’s Chronicle, and the Washington Blade -- did use "gay" in their headlines.

Gay.com began running the story on November 19, a full week before the first mainstream news story appeared in The Washington Times.

The same day, National Review Online columnist Rod Dreher published a commentary titled These Victims Are People, Too" wherein he lamented "the deafening media silence around the savage murder of Mary Stachowicz" and speculated on its cause:

"One cannot help wondering if the upright citizens who report the news don't privately share the view of gay blogger James Wagner, who said of Stachowicz’s strangling:

The woman who did such great evil is dead, but unfortunately the evil and the church and the society which creates it is not, and it will continue to destroy Nicholas Gutierrez and many others. I shake, safely sitting here at home, fully understanding, and fully familiar with, the horrible impact her words must have had for a man already so terribly damaged by his society, and his own mother.

Dreher added, "I believe many, and probably most, journalists share the unspoken assumption that Christians bring such trouble on themselves."

That assumption appears to be shared by pro-homosexual cyber citizens. A search for "Mary Stachowicz" on message boards, e-mail lists, and Web logs (blogs) turned up several people who reacted viciously toward Stachowicz and Christianity.

For example, James Wagner’s boyfriend, Barry, expressed the hope on his blog that "maybe [Stachowicz’s murder] will strike fear in the hearts of a few fundamentalists" and then asked, "Where do I send a check for his (Gutierrez’s) defense fund?"

James and Barry’s statements drew the following response from fellow homosexual Michael Benedetto:

"I think that if gays are going to continue to have any credibility in politics, our sympathies in cases like this are going to have to lie first and foremost with the victims. And that's one upsetting thing about Barry's and James' posts: Until the criticism started to roll in, the only sympathy they expressed was for the wrong person."

Elsewhere, Benedetto wrote, "[Y]es, the woman (Stachowicz) was clearly a meddlesome b---- who didn't understand that the lives of her co-workers were none of her business. That does not make her any less the victim, or absolve her killer of any of his guilt."

"I don’t condone this murder, BUT …."

Several posts implied that Stachowicz had brought on her own death. One man wrote to a Yahoo discussion forum, "It's Sad Someone Was Murdered, BUT... ...I do wish the Religious Wrong would learn to mind their own business."

"Iris" wrote to the ACLU Online Forum: "I am in no way condoning this man's behavior. Murder is murder. He should receive life or the death penalty for his actions. But one fact remains ... if she would have been minding her own [expletive] business instead of attempting to ram her religion where it didn't belong, none of this would have ever happened. I really don't feel sorry for her. She paid a very steep price for being an arrogant religious fascist. Too bad for her."

"Silence Dogood" agreed: "I won't go so far as to say that she deserved what she got, no one deserves to die, but I won't exactly be shedding any tears for her. Quite frankly, if anyone in this case was being 'persecuted' it was Mr. Gutierrez. Unfortunately for the victim this was a lesson that she learned too hard and too late. Maybe this will give pause to other people who similarly try to ‘help’ homosexuals."

"Real" hate crimes

Other discussions centered on the characteristics of hate crimes. "Real" hate crimes, explained ACLU Online Forum member "morningstar," must be like Matthew Shepard’s murder; they must be premeditated and target a group.

"KingFred" wrote to the MacAddict Forum: "Since (Gutierrez has) already admitted he did the crime, there's no question he should do the time. But ‘hate crime’? Don't see it here. He didn't go out to get himself a Christian. He did in a person who may have been berating him, using her Christian beliefs as ‘weapons'. That doesn't justify what he did by any means, but it may explain it."

Catholic League President William Donohue summed up the problems with hate crimes statutes as illustrated by Mary Stachowicz’s murder in a November 26 press release:

"A few thoughts on this matter: a) this (Mary’s murder) will not be listed as a hate crime, thus showing how useless this category of crime is; b) the killer is going to be charged with a capital offense, thus showing once again how useless this category of crime is; c) Mary Stachowicz will never be remembered the way Matthew Shepard is, thus showing how politically corrupt the whole concept of hate crime legislation really is. The fact is she was murdered for having a Catholic-informed conscience."

Others blamed the Roman Catholic Church for Stachowicz’s murder. On the Naked Writing blog, "JodyW" commented, "Gutierrez is responsible for what he did. So the RCC [Roman Catholic Church] is responsible for continuing to put forth a silly, stupid and factually wrong doctrine of ‘objective disorders’ and ‘intrinsic moral evil’ regarding homosexuality. For all that that evil that that doctrine has done and continues to do, they have a lot to be held accountable for."

Perhaps the cruelest comment of all was this from a San Francisco man on Yahoo: "The b---- had it coming to her. I'm glad he killed her. Too bad he'll probably spend the rest of his life in prison getting his little butt pounded, but still, I'm glad he killed her. The b---- deserved to die."


"We're not doing that well," she said. "It just doesn't make any sense, and somehow we're going to have to make our peace with it."

Concerned Women for America - 'Gay' Reaction to Mrs. Stachowicz’s Murder: Silence to Applause

As the article shows us, there is an ever-increasing issue between the tense situation of religion and homosexuality as while homosexuals have been victims of abuse and murder, it seems homosexuals are more and more deciding to retaliate with only more violence. The sadder part is how news like this gets shoved under the mat or dulled down to reveal the politically correct view of what really happened.

How do you react to such a thing and how do you react to the responses given by the ALCU and homosexuals condemning this woman?

P.S. - For those who read the whole article, here's a link to another article about the 13 year old boy they mentioned.

Concerned Women for America - Remembering Jesse Dirkhising: A Young Life Snuffed Out by Homosexual Lovers

[Rocky]

wow, the whole story is a pretty big eye-opener in my opinion. The Mrs. Stachowicz woman had no right to be condescending towards the young man, but there is no need to kill somebody who's beliefs are different from yours, lol. I mean, helping someone out that wants to be helped out (aka, the Christian way) is certainly one thing, but directly telling someone how to live their life is quite another, and then ending someone's life is even over that. What a sad day we live in when people are controlling/ruining others' lives for them because people don't like what is said/what is going on around them. No, she didn't deserve to die, and no, she shouldn't be called a "Martyr" either, because she was acting quite ignorant, but for some random teenager to retaliate like that, sad stuff indeed.

[Pete]

Well, I for one am gonna use these incidents as a means of boycotting everything homosexual and will vehemently call gays monsters from now on for perpetrating such vicious hate crimes.

In reality, two wrongs don't make a right. However, being religious and asking a simple question is completely different than trying to shove the Bible down someone's throat, calling them a heathen and telling them they'll rot in Hell. It's one thing to say the Church doesn't approve. Ok, that's a fact. She prob shouldn't have told him how the Church stands. HOWEVER, and this is a huge however, MURDER IS NOT JUSTIFIABLE IN THIS INSTANCE.

Now, if she were to have tried to bludgeon him to death with a cross (literally, not metaphorically), then I could see him killing her in self defense. But, not only did he kill her, but he stuffed her body under the floorboards and then hid her for 2 days. That's completely wrong in every sense.

On another note, what if this dude was in a therapists office, and the therapist, who is only trying to help, asked what made him gay, or what made him attracted to dudes? Would he go off and kill the therapist for asking the same question? Or was it just because she was a devout Catholic?

Lastly, all of those people who support this murderous piece of shit should be ashamed of themselves. All this woman wanted to do was to help someone, whether or not they needed help or not. She was living her life the way that she had wanted to, and that was in the ways of the Church. Does that mean that she should have been murdered for simply asking a question. Absolutely not. It may have been intrusive and annoying, but lots of people are. Would he have killed the UPS man if he had knocked on his door while he was whacking off to some gay porn? I mean, where do you draw the line. It's unacceptable however you look at it.

What also pisses me off is how the media tries to constantly avoid these problems. I didn't hear about this story until just now. Admittedly, I don't care enough to hold my ear to the ground for gay-related stories, but the fact of the matter is that a reverse-role attack occurred, and the media did nothing to let anyone know about it.

Hell, look at this story. It's about a young white couple getting carjacked, raped and tortured by a group of blacks. The media mostly ignored the story because they felt it was too commonplace, and not worth the attention. Yet, people were RAPED, TORTURED AND MURDERED. It shouldn't matter that they were young, attractive and white. It's a horrific crime of heinous proportions, and yet that doesn't make the news.

Frankly, I'm disgusted at how liberal the media has become. It's becoming more and more evident that minorities are supposed to be the perceived victims, and white people are supposed to be these hateful, warmongering group of racists. It's bullshit no matter how you look at it, and anyone who disagrees is either blind or full blown retarded. A crime is a crime no matter how you look at it. It doesn't matter the race or sexuality of the attackers or victims; it's crime and it's got to be prevented.

People who argue on either side of the fence, saying that "gays get what's coming to them" or that "Christians are all hateful and intolerant and should die" are all fucking stupid. I don't care what side you're arguing for, you're a jackass if you can't see things for what they are.

[Jin]

I love when people talk about the "liberal" media. Don't worry, Pete. For every CNN liberal bias, there's a congruent Fox News conservative bias. Oh wait, that's the "fair and balanced news," my bad. In that case let us look at the source for this gem of an article. The one with a big "support our troops" flag on the front page. I'll agree with you that the media's biased, but an overall liberal bias it isn't.

Mary Stachowicz met her martyrdom

Fair AND balanced.

Honestly, this article is a joke and is in the same category as The Pink Triangle. Not to say that this story doesn't deserve to be reported as news, but substituting a supposed liberal bias for a clearly defined conservative one is hardly the way to go about it.

[Pete]

I think it's a matter of opinion. It seems that any story with a minority antagonist will be deemed to be a proponent of the conservative media, and any story where "the man" is keeping minorities down, is gonna be liberal bias.

The fact of the matter is that BOTH stories I listed were major news stories and went virtually unheard until just recently. The real question we should be asking is not whether or not it's a matter of political spin, but rather WHY such disgusting crimes were not reported.

And for the record, in the broadest of terms, a martyr is anyone who dies due to their religious beliefs. She was very Catholic, and was killed because she questioned a gay dudes preference, and for talking about her beliefs. It's exactly the same that Martin Luther King Jr. is considered a martyr for civil rights.

[Jin]

It seems that any story with a minority antagonist will be deemed to be a proponent of the conservative media

No. Reporting a story with a minority antagonist does not make it conservatively biased; focusing on the minority status of the antagonist in an effort to tacitly prove a point does. Also, the fact that this was reported by Concerned Women of America, a group whose forums often contain threads about why women shouldn't wear pants, does as well.

Of course, the reverse is also true for liberal biases, which I am not discounting the existence of. All I am discounting is the misguided conservative notion that the world's media is liberally biased. Liberal biases within media exist, but for every one you can find an equal conservative bias somewhere else.

And for the record, in the broadest of terms, a martyr is anyone who dies due to their religious beliefs. She was very Catholic, and was killed because she questioned a gay dudes preference, and for talking about her beliefs.

That's quite a stretch; I don't really think even you believe that's how they were using the word. Playing the technicality game won't work on me; I'm too good at it.

[Chez Daja]

Who could possibly support this asshat? I totally disagree with condesending nature toward somebody because of their lifestyle, but that's no excuse to be an overly sensitive twat about it and bring their life to an end.
I hate it when people use words like "discriminatory" in issues like this. There was no discrimination, just a condesending Christian lady and an overly sensitive homosexual man who didn't agree with each other and resulted in one of them dying wrongly.

What I truly hate is when people think you don't like them because they're gay, or black, or white or whatever else, maybe a little irrelevent in this case, but it plays a part in most others. I'm sure the woman might've been utterly disgusted with his lifestyle... she has a right to be (within limitations), but she doesn't have a right to attempt to change his opinions as if he were a child choosing "the wrong packet of cookies." That said, he would have no right to confront her about her lifestyle in a condesending manner if he previously had done -- let's be fair.

Bludgeoning a woman to death because she didn't agree with your opinion? Come on.
Isn't it also funny how the gay community pipe up and defend the man (for the most part) for his frankly disgusting actions? I bet it wouldn't be the same story if somebody killed a homosexual. They'd be totally outraged and cry "DISCRIMINATION, LOCK HIM AWAY!" regardless of whether that person was killed for being gay or not.

What bothers me more than anything is that stuff like this gets more media time than other murder cases just because it has the word "homosexuality" involved. Come to England, make a big statement about how thousands of people die a year by being stabbed for no reason at all. That -- in my opinion, is worth more discussion than a gay man murdering a Christian women for reasons that are pretty much already established in full.

I'm not defending homosexuality or Christianity because I can't relate myself to either, but I will say that there's nothing morally correct about even THINKING of killing somebody because they throw a perhaps nastily sounding question at you.

In honesty; I'm tired of hearing about peoples' personal lives. I don't care about your "hole of choice." Maybe that Christian woman did, but she didn't deserve this at any rate.

Gutierrez later told police that he had issues with his mother and that the way Stachowicz was talking to him gave him flashbacks of his mother that angered him.

This is the bit that I find most hilarious. I'm very sorry that his mother didn't like him much (likely because of the fact he was gay, which is what would've angered him), but how is that to be taken completely out of context and produce in a lame little segment about "flashbacks"? Talk about drama. These excuses are no good, especially when the police have all the proof and a confession.

Again, for future reference; I'm not gay and I'm not Christian. But I do have morals and I know when somethings' seriously ****ed up.


EDIT: I'm being Captain Obvious here, but that's what you get when you mix a tired European with content that is more than likely to spark outrage.

[Furore]

I don't see his murdering of the woman as being right as he had no real good reason to in my mind. He should have just grown a thicker skin.

But then I've faced some annoying people myself and done just that. If I had $5 for every time I'd considered killing a Jehovah's Witness who wouldn't go away (some will stand behind you for a damn long time staring at you through a window) I'd be a rich man. But I don't. They might be trying to force their beliefs on me, and they might be completely ****ing batshit in terms of what they're willing to do to make me 'see the light', but no matter what they do, I can always ignore them, and unless the lady in this case tried to forcibly make him change his ways through threatening him with a weapon or something, that's what he should have done. Ignored her. Or he could have just asked her nicely to go, then tell her she has to leave, and then call the cops. Getting rid of weirdos is part of their job.

As some of us Australians here say, 'Harden the **** up'.

[Govinda]

Media blackouts like these happen quite frequently, from what I know. News agencies seem a bit scared of stories that will start debate and controversy.

For instance, a while ago, a white boy in Glasgow was killed by three Pakistani men in what was clearly a racist a murder (the first Pakistani to be arrested told the police as much). The BBC hopped around the issue. The first man was caught almost straight after the event, while the other two eluded capture for a while; on TV, they would not call it a racist killing until the final man was tracked down and arrested, months after the event. Even then they were touchy. However, when a white person kills a black person, the words 'racist murder' come out almost instantly in the general media, whether applicable or not.

In the UK, the media's biggest fear is of Muslims. They step on so many little eggshells whenever a Muslim crime comes up. Watching the reporting of the London Muslim-hate marches was horrible; it was so badly done by most news agencies here.

I think it's just fear on the part of the agencies. A wrong fear, but a pertinent one. If they do not handle delicate issues with an extremely high degree of dignity (and sometimes even when they do) they will be lambasted for just having reported the story.

So I don't think it's really a matter of liberal vs conservative media - it's just media self-preservation. They put a lot of time and effort into cultivating an image as being something certain groups in society should feel drawn to for their news. They hire reporters of a certain mindset, set their typeface up as either sensationalist or clean, tidy and smart-looking, and set about capturing their market. They do not want stories, like the horrific murder of that woman, which could potentially rock their boat.

The public are the hand that feeds, and they do not want to bite. You can't ever really predict how stories like this one would go down. It sucks, but that's how it is. The money wins once again.

[Sinister]

Murder is murder. People always try to muddy the water by appealing to the pathos.

He was gay. She was Catholic. She looked down on him. He broke up and killed her. He is in a world of hurt now, and doesn't everyone feel sorry for the position he was forced into.

*shrugs*

He destroyed a life, for whatever reason people want to tell... She no longer exists here and he is the reason. **** him and his problems. Maybe he was so fragile he couldn't stand it anymore. People react differently in a thousand of different ways to this situation, some hurt/kill themselves, some hurt/kill others. Most? Most just deal with it.

There's no doubt it's a tragedy. But who really caused the tragedy part?



-Sin

[Phantom]

Reading the story above, I must say, I feel sorry for both of them. While I don't condemn the man's actions, I can honestly say I can relate to him alittle. I mean it wasn't long ago that I hated Christians, Catholics, and homophobes of any sort to death, and I just wanted to grab a large ass Chef's knife and kill them all. In a way I'm just like the man (cept for the fact that I didn't kill anyone), my mom didn't like the fact that I was gay when I came out to her (several times).


That and the way she treated me after that, I hated her, I was hospitalized in a Mental Ward for sudicial urges and a attempt to kill my mother. She pretty much broke my spirit, I mean I held the secret that I was gay from her for 10 years! And that was the result! I didn't just suffer from her actions, but I suffered since childhood before beat up for being gay, for kissing that boy in the high school bathroom, I was beat up and suspended for something THEY did to me, and I didn't try to fight back. Having little to no friends growing up, when my cousin called me a faggot because he throught I tried to touch his butt. Growing up listening to what gays are going through, the abuse, the murder, the torture, and the church was a cornerstone.



When I used to go to church when I was a little boy the priest would always staun homosexuals and homosexuality in general, and when I had to hear my mom listening to church shows like Daystar on t.v with the loudmouth preachers shouting how gays are a evil disease, that would bring hell on earth, and that they will rot in hell for there lifestyle, I started to really hate the church, religion, and the people that worshipped such trash. I mean if there was a God, wouldn't he at least try to calm the hearts, minds, and souls of the humans on earth? I mean when I hear people pray for peace of earth, guess what? Wars, torture its all still happening! Nothing changes, no matter how hard to worship, we probarly are just nothing more then playthings in the eyes of God.


So yes I feel sad and disappointed at the man for what he did, but I can also relate to him. Killing someone regardless of what they are or what they beleive is wrong...I mean that woman was being very ignorant and rude. If its not a man who talks down at you for liking the same sex, its a bloody woman, which just makes it crazy. I mean Women get the men! Those hot sexy ass men, while gay men get beat up, tortured, and even killed because he loves those hot ass men. In a way, thats a reason why I dislike women, some even belittle gay men, and say: "Don't you wish you had my man? I can have him, but you can't because your GAY" hahaha. I dislike women not only because I'm gay but because they always have to play the victims. I know not all women are bad, some are my friends, and of course I have a loving mother, but I have a feeling that if my mom were still married to my dad or if she got another man I would honestly feel angry.



I mean its bad enough I have to deal with heterosexuals in the outside world all lovey dovey holding hands and stuff, if I had to deal with it at home, I would rather be homeless. But anyway back on topic: Yes what that man did was wrong, and I feel sorry for the woman. Yes she was Christian but despite that she was still a human being with life. If I was that man if I was younger I would probarly have done the same thing....even through I know it is wrong to kill. I just hate when Cristians push their religion on me and even worst try to "CONVERT" to being heterosexual!


They make me feel ill, whenever a religionous person preaches BS in the subway terminals on Sundays and hand out flyers, whenever they try to get to me, I tear it up and throw it in the trash. Either that or they leave me alone because I can act like a asshole too. I know I sound like a hypocrite right now, but believe me when I say that I feel sorry for the woman and I also feel sorry and upset with the man, but I relate to him, so I can't condemn him completely. After all, years back I would've done the same thing. Ok, I'm done