That X-men poster

[Rowan]

Rose McGowan, an American actress released the following statement regarding her general disapproval of the X-Men: Apocalypse poster:

‘There is a major problem when the men and women at 20th Century Fox think casual violence against women is the way to market a film.'

She went on to wrap up her interview with Hollywood Reporter, regarding the matter, with:

"I’ll close with a text my friend sent, a conversation with his daughter. It follows: ‘My daughter and I were just having a deep discussion on the brutality of that hideous X-Men poster yesterday. Her words: 'Dad, why is that monster man committing violence against a woman?' This from a 9-year-old. If she can see it, why can’t Fox?"

-TDW

Lets overlook the blatant lie about the 9 year old saying " why is that monster commiting violence against a woman" - is there really anything wrong with this billboard?

I was reading through some comments, and the pick of the litter was as follows;

"Daddy, why is the bad guy committing violence against a woman?"
"Well son, that's because women are people too. And treating them equally means that in a super hero movie with representation of strong female heroes, the bad guys will have to fight against them as well as the men. You can't win a war by putting a woman with a gun at the front lines and crying misogyny if the other army dares to hurt her. It's actually patronizing and sexist of you to think the woman somehow needs special treatment or privileged representation in popular media."



Any thoughts?

[Pete]

Sounds like she's been irrelevant for years and wants to get her name out there. A quick imdb check confirms this.

It's a superhero movie. People of all races, species, colors and sizes fight in these things. I think the X-Men movies have been garbage for years, but you can't knock them on diversity.

Hell, why not make the case that since mystique is a female, and a shape shifter, that all women are two faced and deceptive?

That being said, would they prefer to just have all women stay home, making breakfast and babies? What a crazy double standard. We want strong female roles, with girls who are just as strong and capable as men, but God forbid they actually get hit by a man in a movie.

Now, if the byline on the poster said "I said no mayo!", I could see a problem.

Obviously, this goes without saying that domestic violence is wrong, and you should never hit anyone, unless in self defense, but that's not really the point.

What if mystique didn't identify as a shape shifter? What if she self identified as a 7 foot tall Mongolian barbarian. What if Apocalypse identified as a black woman?

God I hate people sometimes

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[charliepanayi]

It's a pretty lame poster when all is said and done. Probably just as well the makers of End of Evangelion didn't go with a similar approach on their posters really!

[01habbo]

The poster is lame but not because I think it is sexist, I just think it one of those images you use for a meme rather than a poster. I watched this movie the other day completely disagree with her, it's a super hero movie the good guys are going to get beat up at some point. It's not like only the women were beaten up.

[Rowan]

It's a pretty lame poster when all is said and done. Probably just as well the makers of End of Evangelion didn't go with a similar approach on their posters really!

lmfao. Okay, Shinji choking Asuka was an extremely monumental moment in the entire series. It showed many things about himself and not a single one of them had to do with misogyny. That is the interesting part.

[Meier Link]

Point to note: mystique is both genders and capible of not only having sex but also conceiving a child based on which form Mystique is in. In other words "she" has been known to father children.

Also who is this "celebrity? "

[Heartless Angel]

In all the X men movies I can recall at least 3 dudes Mystique has choked out. One was with her feet.

[Clint]

They depicted Mystique in peril because she's leading the team of young X-Men in this film. If the leader was a man, I'm sure they would have shown him in peril instead. It isn't a depiction of violence towards women. It's just a violent movie.

Also why does Rose McGowan think she's relevant? It's not 1996 anymore. She's been so obscure for the past 20 years, why would anybody even give a shit what she has to say?

[Rowan]

Appearing as a champion for feminism is what has been's do to try and gain publicity for themselves, I guess. All she's doing is contributing to the idiocy that is synnonmously famous with feminism.

yes, I went there.

[Alpha]

Why is it X-Men and not X-Women?

[charliepanayi]

*sighs* Stop acting like feminism is a bad thing. Sorry if the idea of equality between the genders upsets you so much.

Anyway not sure the poster is offensive, but it's pretty unpleasant to look at. I've never seen anything remotely along the same lines for other blockbusters.

[Pete]

king-kong-vintage-movie-poster-4.jpg

[Rowan]

*sighs* Stop acting like feminism is a bad thing. Sorry if the idea of equality between the genders upsets you so much.

Stop pretending that its about equality.

[Pete]

Would it be equality if she was choking him? Or if they were choking each other? Or if two girls were choking Apocalypse? Would one of them have to be a black woman who identified with xe xer Xerox as pronouns?

Is it considered privilege that I don't care?

[OceanEyes28]

1. Feminism is cool. Nerds. <3

2. If the violence against the Mystique character was being used as the motivation for a male character to be a hero (and save the damsel), it would be sexist. I haven't seen the movie, but if Mystique continues to whoop ass because she is a powerful superhero, then it's just a billboard in poor taste.

3. I can see how it would be triggering for a survivor of abuse (and before you make "triggered" jokes, let me point out that the term is used for all sorts of people with PTSD, including veterans, and the fact that you don't care for the tumblr community doesn't mean that the struggles of survivors should be diminished and derided), and that maybe a huge public place isn't the best spot for it. You can choose to see the film containing that scene, but if it pops up on a billboard, and you've been choked by someone stronger than you before, that might bring up some very traumatic memories when you were just trying to go to the grocery store.

I can see both sides, and I think both sides are polarizing themselves because they feel they aren't being listened to, so they have to keep getting louder and more ridiculous to make their point.

[Pete]

Ally, you're 100% right. The poster is in poor taste and I can see how it can stir up bad memories of domestic violence. For that population, I really do feel for them. Nobody should ever have to go through that shit. I also think that they should get the **** out of said situation and have the aggressor brought to justice, and the appropriate counseling should be sought.

The problem though, is the wrong type of feminism. The one where women think it's empowering to get what they want by threatening to cry rape. This really goes hand in hand with tumblr.

That being said, the real problem is that tumblr and internet in general went and became a voice for everything, no matter how ridiculous. It's goes hand in hand with the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality that society has now. If everybody thinks that they're special and unique, then nobody is. It's caused frivolous lawsuits and caused so many useless uproars like this one. Society as a whole has gotten so used to the squeaky wheel getting the grease that it's lost all common sense. The crazy thing is that people are too afraid to contest anyone's opinion, out of fear of being doxxed or publicly "outed" as not being tolerant, which makes you a nazi.

That's not to say that the internet isn't good for things, like support groups and the like. Sometimes anonymously venting can be therapeutic. That's cool. The problem is when people become so hypersensitive that everything becomes a transgression against something. And God forbid some group feels offended. We'll get a new pride day and have to learn new pronouns.

I miss the old America where people weren't triggered by literally everything, and where you could speak your mind without people thinking you're a monster.

[Rowan]

I miss the old America where people weren't triggered by literally everything, and where you could speak your mind without people thinking you're a monster.

Dont worry, word on the street is that its being made great again.

[Walter Sobchak]

It is easy to look at this and see what the issue is. It enforces a lot of ideas of male dominance, and it is uncomfortable to look at.

The more interesting angle to the story is looking at how men react to this sort of commentary. Look at the greatest hits.

1. The actress is not famous enough to have an opinion (rendering this whole thing sort of moot).
2. Some sort of weird defense about the character's ability to change gender (no one is thinking about that when they look at the poster).
3. It was better in the good old days (when women would have to be silent about feeling like something was wrong in media).
4. Idiocy is synonymous with feminism (because it is stupid to want equal rights for the sexes).

These sort of conversations are always bizarre, trying to figure out if something is offensive or not. If someone says something, then they found it offensive. Just because you do not find it offensive does not mean that the opinions of others are invalid. That the studio decided to remove the material should indicate that more than a handful of people found it distasteful.

[Pete]

It really indicates that the studio is more afraid of more bad press and losing any more money

[Heartless Angel]

It is easy to look at this and see what the issue is. It enforces a lot of ideas of male dominance, and it is uncomfortable to look at.

The more interesting angle to the story is looking at how men react to this sort of commentary. Look at the greatest hits.

1. The actress is not famous enough to have an opinion (rendering this whole thing sort of moot).
2. Some sort of weird defense about the character's ability to change gender (no one is thinking about that when they look at the poster).
3. It was better in the good old days (when women would have to be silent about feeling like something was wrong in media).
4. Idiocy is synonymous with feminism (because it is stupid to want equal rights for the sexes).

These sort of conversations are always bizarre, trying to figure out if something is offensive or not. If someone says something, then they found it offensive. Just because you do not find it offensive does not mean that the opinions of others are invalid. That the studio decided to remove the material should indicate that more than a handful of people found it distasteful.

I find this post offensive. Just because YOU can't think of any logical reason why I would, doesn't mean it isn't. Please delete your post immediately.

See how easy that is? If there's no objective basis for examining such a claim, you would have to censor ****ing everything. If you can't support your opinions with facts nobody is under any obligation to give them any serious consideration. The facts do not support any claims of sexism.

[Walter Sobchak]

I find this post offensive. Just because YOU can't think of any logical reason why I would, doesn't mean it isn't. Please delete your post immediately.

See how easy that is? If there's no objective basis for examining such a claim, you would have to censor ****ing everything. If you can't support your opinions with facts nobody is under any obligation to give them any serious consideration. The facts do not support any claims of sexism.

"Evidence" is women (the people that would feel targeted) saying it is sexist. Why try to be thick about it? You are being asked for a little bit of empathy for a group of people who are not you.

[Heartless Angel]

Their feelings are based purely upon ignorance of the movie and X men in general. The feelings of people who know nothing do not warrant any serious consideration.

[Walter Sobchak]

Their feelings are based purely upon ignorance of the movie and X men in general. The feelings of people who know nothing do not warrant any serious consideration.

The movie is completely irrelevant to the issue. The idea that people cannot have an opinion on billboards plastered for everyone to see in major cities without being a fan of X-Men is so far out of left field.

[Heartless Angel]

I would tend to agree. That's also not a claim I made. Check the strawman at the door.

Anyone can have an opinion on anything. I don't have to be a doctor to have an opinion on what medicine you should take for an illness, for example. If, however, you, knowing that I am not a doctor opted to act on my medical recommendation, I think it's fair to say you're an idiot. You don't need qualifications to HAVE an opinion, just to have your opinion taken seriously.

People are entitled to their opinions regarding this billboard, but those with absolutely no knowledge of the characters or the movie can't reasonably expect anyone else to CARE about their ill-informed opinions.

[Walter Sobchak]

People are entitled to their opinions regarding this billboard, but those with absolutely no knowledge of the characters or the movie can't reasonably expect anyone else to CARE about their ill-informed opinions.

Of course they can. They have to drive by the same billboards on the highway or walk by the same posters in the subway as anyone else. Your argument would be more valid if someone was grabbing a still from the movie itself, but this was a poster put up in order to entice people, most of whom have never seen an X-Men movie, to see the film.

The studio realized the issue and made the change, to their credit.

[Heartless Angel]

They changed it because people were batching about it. It was a PR move, not an acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

I have to drive by all sorts of advertisements that annoy me. The fact that advertisements exist annoys me. If someone had to take down every ad that someone didn't like, there wouldn't be any left... Which would be great actually.

Interestingly, I've never seen any of these billboards when I've been driving. Evidently going past them isn't mandatory.

[Pete]

I have ptsd from the new ninja turtles movie poster. It's a constant reminder of how they raped my childhood.

All kidding aside, people do see things that offend them all the time, and 99% of people just deal with it. I'm honestly offended by the Kardashians. I don't understand how they've become famous for sucking dongs and filming it.

[Walter Sobchak]

They changed it because people were batching about it. It was a PR move, not an acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

That is what public relations does. They removed the posters and apologized. That is "an acknowledgement of wrongdoing."

Interestingly, I've never seen any of these billboards when I've been driving. Evidently going past them isn't mandatory.

I have to drive by all sorts of advertisements that annoy me. The fact that advertisements exist annoys me. If someone had to take down every ad that someone didn't like, there wouldn't be any left... Which would be great actually.

All kidding aside, people do see things that offend them all the time, and 99% of people just deal with it. I'm honestly offended by the Kardashians. I don't understand how they've become famous for sucking dongs and filming it.

The fact that you two are comparing an image that depicts violence against women that multiple women have had a problem with to "annoyances" and celebrities you dislike indicates that you have either done very little effort in trying to understand the position you are arguing against or you do not care. This forum is probably not the best place for this, being male-heavy and seemingly abandoned, but you can easily find women out there that will tell you their feelings about things like this. You can find women in your personal life to validate your view but you can also go online and go to places where women will tell you why it affects them. Whether or not you agree with what they believe is irrelevant because it is not about you. We are all limited in our understanding by a variety of things we were born into (gender, race, class, sexual orientation, geography) and it is a prime arrogance for men to tell women that disapprove of this poster that they are wrong. We see this time and time again, from the Washington Redskins controversy to transgender bathroom access.

I really doubt I will comment further, mostly because I am a man and it really is not my place to explain this any further (it should be female voices). I would ask both of you two things: listen to what women have to say about the topic and other topics in the future and read this article from Sasha James.

http://www.themarysue.com/x-men-apocalypse-poster/

[Heartless Angel]

In the same way that giving a baby a pacifier is an acknowledgement that failing to feed a baby whenever it screams is wrong, sure.

I compare one absurd emotional gripe with no basis in fact to another because they're all equally worthless. I understand mindless emotional grievances just fine. I simply don't entertain them as though they had merit.

You can always find people with opinions. Opinions are like assholes, etcetera, etcetera. I can also find people willing to give me their opinions on the causal relationship between vaccinations and autism, or the flat shape and 6000 year age of the earth. I'm not interested in them for the same reason, they're not substantiated by any actual evidence.

Whether I agree with someone is indeed irrelevant. Whether reality agrees with them, on the other hand, is quite relevant. Reality does not agree with the opinions of those whining about this.

That is what we in the business of substantiating our claims with facts like to call the genetic fallacy. My background and origins have no bearing on what I am capable of arguing or understanding. Perspective is irrelevant to truth.

I listen to what everyone says. Whether I assign any value to what people say is another issue entirely.

I did read that article, expecting it to contain some new or at least relevant information. All it effective said was "Look, I understand that this isn't a normal man or a normal woman, I understand this is depicting a square off between good and evil depicting what is likely the climax of a movie while showcasing it's major stars and invoking countless tried and true tropes for hyping up a movie through advertising, but if I ignore all of the context and background information that clearly demonstrates this is not sexism and does not promote violence against women, this is so sexist and wrong!".

I can't say I expected more, because I didn't.

[che]

Wow, I got bored and clicked on this thread. I have never given such less of a shit about a topic before LOL. Good to see you all haven't changed, though. Keep it up!

edit: I lied. I remember that everytime Loaf posts, I don't give a shit, either.