Utter destruction of all social normativeness in modern society

[Spooniest]

Think about the last time you had what you call a 'normal social interaction' with someone.

It probably doesn't quite represent the level of manners, thought, or routine that it would have, 10, 15, 20 years ago for a person in your position.

By exchanging voice-to-voice and face-to-face contact for mostly letters (and mostly typed very badly), we have lost quite a lot of the technique we once possessed as a race when it comes to social niceties. People trust less and risk less in interactions. Lasting friendships are harder to come by than they used to be. Ostracism is easy when all you have to do is push a button, and we can now all live in our little high school clique forever, thanks to the convenience of internet communications.

At least, this is how I rationalize it, when people are rude to me. It can't always be because I'm an asshole, that doesn't satisfy my scientific curiosity enough.

[Rowan]

Id be far more respectful to people in person than online. Doesn't that prove that its just a behaviour rather than an ever changing adapted social 'normativeness'?

[Spooniest]

1 person out of 7 billion does not prove much... Uhm... You would need a larger sample size. Perhaps this is something unique to you, perhaps it is evidence of your point, but without a larger sample size, it's impossible to know.

I don't get this whole 'you can just be an asshole online' thing, at all, for a second. Why do people think it's ok? It's like there's this festering nastiness inside the human race that's just itching to get out. Like people say the things they wish they could say to people's faces, by saying it to them (or not saying anything, as the case may be) through online communications. I'm not really so concerned about people being offended by rudeness, I'm more concerned about what this says about us as a culture, as a race. Are people just nasty and mean and cruel in the end of it all?

If so, I'd be sorely disappointed. I like people, believe it or not. I am just constantly a hair's breadth away from losing my temper, through a cruel defect of nature which mental health professionals have yet to devise the cause of. I've kind of given up waiting for an answer, but I have indeed had a rotten temper since before I can remember anything clearly, i.e. likely since I was born... I'm wondering at this point if anger being justified makes it any better an emotion to deal with. It doesn't seem so.

But like I said, I like people. I like having friends, I like my family, heck, I adore my pets. All of this venting at each other through our phones/tablets/computers only weakens any concept of trust and security in our society, to the point where I feel like a lot of folks just think actively vomiting their negative emotions on others over the web is a fine way to live, and even feel entitled to act this way.

Did I mention that I haven't had much sleep the last month? ...I haven't had much sleep the last month. Sorry for rambling. I have no idea what point I'm trying to make.

[Pete]

I'll start this off with a quote that I think is pretty relevant.

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

It's easy to spout off bullshit on the internet. The relative anonymity helps, as does the fact that you can't get your ass kicked through your phone or computer. It's easier to snap at someone and to have a hot take reaction to something that just happened, especially before all of the facts are released.

I also think that the internet and instant communication is a great thing for maintaining friendships with people. I remember years ago, my grandma would clip out newspaper articles and send them to friends and relatives, with a little note saying how she thought the person might be interested in said article. You can do the same thing in a manner of seconds today. Copy link, pop it into a text and send it. Boom, done. Technology has helped us to speed up what would have taken days to share. Sure, there's a nice feeling to get a piece of mail that isn't a bill, but the thought is still there.

I do think that the internet and technology has worked to create a bunch of barriers and subcultures of basement dwellers and socially awkward people. People who either never had social skills or decided to completely abandon social skills and essentially live online. They can't get jobs because they don't have the social skills or care to handle an interview. They just sit around and live online for their entire day. They were either poorly socialized or apathetic to it.

So, yeah, for all of the good that the internet does to connect us, it's also up to the individual to act like a human being.

[Spooniest]

I'll start this off with a quote that I think is pretty relevant.

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

It's easy to spout off bullshit on the internet. The relative anonymity helps, as does the fact that you can't get your ass kicked through your phone or computer. It's easier to snap at someone and to have a hot take reaction to something that just happened, especially before all of the facts are released.

I also think that the internet and instant communication is a great thing for maintaining friendships with people. I remember years ago, my grandma would clip out newspaper articles and send them to friends and relatives, with a little note saying how she thought the person might be interested in said article. You can do the same thing in a manner of seconds today. Copy link, pop it into a text and send it. Boom, done. Technology has helped us to speed up what would have taken days to share. Sure, there's a nice feeling to get a piece of mail that isn't a bill, but the thought is still there.

I do think that the internet and technology has worked to create a bunch of barriers and subcultures of basement dwellers and socially awkward people. People who either never had social skills or decided to completely abandon social skills and essentially live online. They can't get jobs because they don't have the social skills or care to handle an interview. They just sit around and live online for their entire day. They were either poorly socialized or apathetic to it.

So, yeah, for all of the good that the internet does to connect us, it's also up to the individual to act like a human being.

While I can see what you're not-so-subtly getting at, there is another type of person you are ignoring in your discourse, which I happen to be, and which is easy for someone of your view to overlook.

There are those of us who are simply depressed about the whole situation to the point where our heads quite literally feel like 10,000 ton weights balanced on our shoulders. You can, as you say, spout all the bullshit you want over the internet about it at someone who suffers this particular affliction; exactly 0 of it will help.

Because our communication process has been sped up so, we now no longer place the value on patience and understanding that we once did. We prefer short messages that are easy to understand and emotionally process. I feel like every single time someone says "How are you doing?" a little voice inside me says "They don't really want to know, just say that you're ok."

It must be so wonderful to be a person who doesn't have these kinds of social and mental issues going on in their head. Really a dream, I bet. So much so that perhaps the euphoria of it clouds one to any form of sympathy for someone who is in the midst of it. Despair and depression really can latch on to someone early in their life and slowly choke them out.

[Pete]

Perhaps I don't understand the depths of your depression, nor will I pretend to, because that would be both wrong and ignorant of me. I've read over your post a few times and forgive me if I'm mistaken, but does some of this depression stem from a lack of proper discourse and that the world is moving too quickly to care about each other? Please, let me know if I'm wrong, because like I said, I'm not pretending to understand, but I'd like to.

My point isn't so much to be contentious or to directly attack anyone, but rather to point out the good that I see in technology, and our ability to instantly communicate. You're not wrong in saying that we don't always take our time in dealing with personal relationships and communication. It's sad that sometimes it's "difficult" or "inconvenient" to send a text message or reply to something someone had said or written. That stuff genuinely sucks, and is really pretty inexcusable. It literally takes seconds of your day to type out "hey, long time no talk, how have you been?". I'm guilty of it myself. I forget to text people back or return calls because I was busy and then just forgot. Things like that take a conscious effort to maintain. Facebook is great for compiling all of your friends birthdays and anniversaries, but it takes a real human effort to take the time to call and catch up.

On the other hand, I was saying that I think it's amazing how easily it can unite people and keep people in touch. I also think that the anonymity of the internet can help people who are struggling with issues, whatever they are. Maybe people don't have access to transport or can't attend meetings or sessions to help cope with their problems. They can hop online, post in a journal or find an online forum specifically for people with that issue. You can be anonymous and share your troubles, and be in the company of others.

And yes, it is easier, but also not right to be rude or a dick online. It's one of those things that has always been around, but is more prevalent online, most likely due to the relative anonymity of the internet.

[Spooniest]

I'm sorry for lashing at you. As much anger as I've expressed in my life, there is quite a bit more than I've ever expressed, being bottled up inside me. I have a serious philosophical conviction not to harm people, or myself...I don't think it's morally right to cause harm to a living being. But man, this world tests me.

Because our communication process has been sped up so, we now no longer place the value on patience and understanding that we once did. We prefer short messages that are easy to understand and emotionally process.

To answer your question, yes, this is the reason, I believe, that I have become so morbidly depressed. I've been sad all my life for reasons that would take way too long to go into and probably be very uncomfortable for someone to hear, but only in the last 10 years or so have I felt like the entire world is getting to the point where vapid apathetic disassociation is preferable to humane treatment of your fellow humans, for most people, and yes, it makes me feel like 10 pounds of monkey crap in a 5 pound bag.

And since communication requires lightness and brevity, or you become ostracized by those around you as a "weirdo," there is no help available except for the next-to-useless psychological research community. You end up on your own more or less.

It's heartbreaking, the dearth of real emotional connection to each other that exists today. If you don't believe me, check out the news sometime. If it isn't people being filled with bullets by someone slightly more enraged than I who doesn't believe in nonviolence, then it's milk-fed, draft-dodging, suit-wearing shitstains pretending their presidency is legitimate.

This society is a powder keg of rage waiting for a spark. I am merely a mostly-burned-out coal that flares up from time to time.

To make my point totally clear: American Society no longer has any sense of what constitutes normal, in our interactions with each other. It sounds like some weird theory, and yeah I guess it is, but it just appears to me as though our culture has become utterly dysfunctional.

[Spooniest]

My nephew was killed accidentally by his friend last night when a gun they were messing around with went off.

I mentioned this on Romhacking.net's Discord. User "Aerdan" replies: "Sorry to hear your nephew and his friend never had proper gun safety training."

Let me give you a piece of free advice: do not ever ask anyone over there for any sensitivity. They are all douchebags in the extreme. Fuck them.

[Master Garland]

My nephew was killed accidentally by his friend last night when a gun they were messing around with went off.

I mentioned this on Romhacking.net's Discord. User "Aerdan" replies: "Sorry to hear your nephew and his friend never had proper gun safety training."

Let me give you a piece of free advice: do not ever ask anyone over there for any sensitivity. They are all douchebags in the extreme. Fuck them.

How terrible! I'm so sorry you lost a precious loved one Spooniest! I can't imagine loosing someone I love especially my lovely big sis(who is also my bke eternally) It must really hurt the soul soo bad to have them gone.. my heart goes out to you and your family for the loss *hugs* I hope tonight see's you doing a little better and on a road to emotional recovery hun. Are you sleeping well enough now though? I hope soo.

Please get better have a good night.

[Pete]

My sincerest condolences. The circumstances don't matter when a life is lost tragically and prematurely. It's a shame that it happened. Period, stop. I'm sorry for your loss.

I understand what you mean by a lack of empathy and a general disconnect. I think that a lot of it comes from the anonymity and desire to be edgy or funny. People who lead generally insulated lives, free of hardship tend not to understand the pain of others. It's also easy to make jokes from a distance, and even easier behind a screen. I'm just a guilty of this as anyone.

For full disclosure, I lost my aunt, dad and grandma over the course of 6 months, the latter two over three days, many years ago. I didn't share it with many people here, but people here did know, and were beyond supportive and understanding. I don't think I'll ever have enough appreciation for how much it meant to me. Really, they were beyond supportive, even moreso than some people that I knew "in real life". I don't say this to disprove your point, but merely to just say that not all communities are dicks. I know you know this, but it might help to hear it from another place

[Spooniest]

Thanks Pete. :'(

The full story of what I know so far is that my nephew's best friend, a former National Guard trainee, was practicing the process of loading and unloading his shotgun. He did not think he had it pointed in a dangerous direction, but he loaded a round, and cocked the gun, and it went off. By a matter of mere inches, my nephew's face was right in the range of the blast radius. He died almost instantaneously.

It makes me feel just a small amount better that it wasn't kids goofing around with pistols trying to be gangster, or anything, but it still carves a pretty big hole in my gut. This is a child that looked up to me, that learned from me, that wanted to be like me. I am really having a rough time.

Thanks so much, again, for your kind words. That fetal position weeping my eyes out is tempting indeed, but stiff upper lip and all that.

[Spooniest]

I'm not doing any better. I re-read this and it all came back. Shit. I have to go to work.

It's not that I don't think anyone understands me, you know. It's that they've seen enough people like me to understand, they just don't seem to care, even after having it explained 40,000 ways.

update - amazing what one word of encouragement from your girlfriend can do