Trump's Withdrawals

[Zargabaath]

Taco, do you that the rebels staged a chemical weapon attack to garner support from the international community not aligned with Assad? Or that they never took place?


Pete, I agree that ousting Saddam was not that wrong of a move. While we know there were no weapons of mass destruction his treatment of marginalized groups in his country, like in Libya and Syria, were justification in going in. Our degree of involvement has been significantly less in Syria and Libya due to Obama not wanting the US getting entangled in another drawn out costly and bloated campaign. I would add from your Afghanistan example of the 70s and 80s to include Vietnam. I think with the anti-war climate being considerably less severe in our current time, though I can not truly judge, has allowed the government to continue these conflicts. With Afghanistan there is clearly just cause with 9/11 - no question.

I also agree with your view that the Middle East is like the Wild West and with how I have viewed the situations over in the Middle East my perspective may be more barbaric. Viewing how some of these countries have descended into worse turmoil after the removal of their dictator has led me to believe that some of these guys were necessary evils. These dictators may be brutal but they allowed some religious liberty, as the case with Assad and Mubarek. When these guys go as in Libya, Egypt, and perhaps Yemen now, the real crazies come out. Who knows if the ousting of Assad would have prevented ISIS's growth, perhaps they would have gained control of the Syrian government like the Brotherhood of Islam in Egypt. That is why personally I felt we should not have gotten involved in the Syrian Civil War at the onset. Assad may be ruler for life but looking at the other countries that ousted a dictator, they subsequently allowed the real crazy people to take charge creating utter chaos instead of an orderly chaos so to speak.

I think the region is adverse to democratic governments. After WWII we were able to build successful countries in Germany, Japan, and Italy though the latter is having some financial uncertainty from what I gather in the news. I agree that since we went in we should help them create a democratic government. We helped them create their "constitution", trained their armies, brought woman's rights and fairer treatment, my only contention is when can we let go of their hands. This conflict is almost old enough to buy a pack of cigarettes in most states if it were a person. Which is why I strongly connected with Senator Rand's statement. Eventually they must take the reigns of their own history in their hands. We cannot baby-sit them and be the force that keeps their country from dissolving into madness. If those in the government, army, and the people cannot truly appreciate a democratic way of life and fight for it after this much time has passed then maybe they are not ready. Understandably, their country has experienced unrest for 17 plus years, a little less with Iraq, but if they are not willing to fight to keep their freedom then they just neither of Thomas Paine's options of liberty of death. They choose subjugation of whatever group has the will to rule.

Interestingly I read an article that Senator Elizabeth Warren has come out in agreement that we should leave Syria and Afghanistan though was critical of Trump's delivery of the message. I wonder how she feels about Iraq.

And Pete we are trying to put some of those Phantom Muchentuchens in Fallujah. All about appealing to the local demographic.

[Taco-Calamitous]

Taco, do you that the rebels staged a chemical weapon attack to garner support from the international community not aligned with Assad? Or that they never took place?

I believe that they were either staged, or perpetrated by the rebels, from what I recall hearing about them. I believe the White Helmets were also implicated into things like that.