Til Death Do Us Not Part?

[Phantom]

Hello all, throught I'd bring some life to the forum again. Yet another issue from hawt Cali, has set up another controversy. From last years Prop 8 to an issue to "Ban Divorce?" Wow... Read on:

Movement under way in California to ban divorce - Yahoo! News


Movement under way in California to ban divorce

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – Til death do us part? The vow would really hold true in California if a Sacramento Web designer gets his way.

In a movement that seems ripped from the pages of Comedy Channel writers, John Marcotte wants to put a measure on the ballot next year to ban divorce in California.

The effort is meant to be a satirical statement after California voters outlawed gay marriage in 2008, largely on the argument that a ban is needed to protect the sanctity of traditional marriage. If that's the case, then Marcotte reasons voters should have no problem banning divorce.

"Since California has decided to protect traditional marriage, I think it would be hypocritical of us not to sacrifice some of our own rights to protect traditional marriage even more," the 38-year-old married father of two said.

Marcotte said he has collected dozens of signatures, including one from his wife of seven years. The initiative's Facebook fans have swelled to more than 11,000. Volunteers that include gay activists and members of a local comedy troupe have signed on to help.

Marcotte is looking into whether he can gather signatures online, as proponents are doing for another proposed 2010 initiative to repeal the gay marriage ban. But the odds are stacked against a campaign funded primarily by the sale of $12 T-shirts featuring bride and groom stick figures chained at the wrists.

Marcotte needs 694,354 valid signatures by March 22, a high hurdle in a state where the typical petition drive costs millions of dollars. Even if his proposed constitutional amendment made next year's ballot, it's not clear how voters would react.

Nationwide, about half of all marriages end in divorce.

Not surprisingly, Marcotte's campaign to make divorce in California illegal has divided those involved in last year's campaign for and against Proposition 8.

As much as everyone would like to see fewer divorces, making it illegal would be "impractical," said Ron Prentice, the executive director of the California Family Council who led a coalition of religious and conservative groups to qualify Proposition 8.

No other state bans divorce, and only a few countries, including the Philippines and Malta, do. The Roman Catholic Church also prohibits divorce but allows annulments. The California proposal would amend the state constitution to eliminate the ability of married couples to get divorced while allowing married couples to seek an annulment.

Prentice said proponents of traditional marriage only seek to strengthen the one man-one woman union.

"That's where our intention begins and ends," he said.

Jeffrey Taylor, a spokesman for Restore Equality 2010, a coalition of same-sex marriage activists seeking to repeal Proposition 8, said the coalition supports Marcotte's message but has no plans to join forces with him.

"We find it quite hilarious," Taylor said of the initiative.

Marcotte, who runs the comedy site BadMouth.net in his spare time, said he has received support from across the political spectrum. In addition to encouragement from gay marriage advocates, he has been interviewed by American Family Association, a Mississippi-based organization that contributed to last year's Yes on 8 campaign.

He was mentioned by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC's "Countdown" during his "World's Best Persons" segment for giving supporters of Proposition 8 their "comeuppance in California."

Marcotte, who is Catholic and voted against Proposition 8, views himself as an accidental activist. A registered Democrat, he led a "ban divorce" rally recently at the state Capitol in Sacramento to launch his effort and was pleasantly surprised at the turnout. About 50 people showed up, some holding signs that read, "You too can vote to take away civil rights from someone."

Marcotte stopped dozens of people during another signature drive in downtown Sacramento. Among them was Ryan Platt, 32, who said he signed the petition in support of his lesbian sister, even though he thinks it would be overturned if voters approved it.

"Even if by some miracle this did pass, it would never stand up to the federal government," Platt said. "And if it did, there's something really wrong with America."

Other petition signers said they were motivated by a sincere interest to preserve marriages. One was Ervin Hulton, a 47-year-old dishwasher who said he believes in making it harder for couples to separate.

"The way I feel, why go out and spend all these tons of money for marriage, the photography and all that? And along down the line, it's going to shatter," said Hulton, who is single.

The U.S. divorce rate is 47.9 percent, according to data provided by the National Center for Health Statistics reports. That figure, however, does not include California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Louisiana and Minnesota because those six states no longer report their divorce rates to the center.

California stopped because of budget problems, said Ralph Montano, a spokesman for the California Department of Public Health.

While most people would not support banning divorce, it does make sense for couples to be educated about the financial and emotional commitments of marriage, said Dan Couvrette, chief executive and publisher of Toronto-based Divorce Magazine. The publication has a circulation of 140,000, including a regional edition in Southern California.

"It's a worthwhile conversation to have," said Couvrette, who started the magazine in 1996 after going through his own divorce. "I don't think it's just a frivolous thought."
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"We find it quite hilarious," Taylor said of the initiative.




I would too lol. All that craziness to ban Gay Marriage in Cali last year, now this issue to ban married couples from wanting a divorce? LOL. If couples want to get divorced, let them! It's "their" right, right? I mean if a divorce was because of spouse abuse, then heck yeah, if one starts abuse, for most they can't stop, so the best thing to do is to leave! And hopefully you can find another man or woman that loves you for you and would never abuse you or treat you like crap. Can I get a Amen?


What are your throughts about this controversy over banning divorce?

[Zargabaath]

Trust Californians to do something crazy.

On a serious note, what Marcotte & Co. are proposing does have some validity "from a certain point of view" (said by Sir Alec Guinness). The way American marriages are going is abyssmal; couples are entering them with out thinking deeply about the commitment/responsibility of marriage a lot of the time. Americans don't respect the sanctity of marriage as much anymore; the vows are not meant there to scoff at - they are to be taken with austerity.

However, there are some holes that Marcotte & Co. forget about marriage. I was surprised to learn that Marcotte was a Catholic, I was thinking he would be of another denomination, whom treat marriage more seriously than other Christian religions. In a lot of the Christian denominations marriage is not a sacrament as it is in Catholicism and I believe a select few other denominations. Marriage not being a sacrament there is less importance on it and the churches allow for divorce a lot easier. It is still possible to get divorced sanctioned by the church in Catholicism - if the vows were done in bad faith, which have to be proved, then the church would allow for a divorce.

A driving force for the creation of the Church of England was because Henry VIII wanted to divorce his wife because she did not bear him any sons and he did not want one of his daughters inheriting the throne. Creating a denomination for such a reason is preposterous; religion is not a trifling matter that should be created for political purposes. If anyone wants to blame the collapse of marriage, you can send some of it to Henry VIII's shalllowness. Behavior like this makes people think that marriage is not so binding and it is ok to mess up... cause hey, "I could always divorce him/her if things go sour".

It would be nice if people took more value in marriage. The churches allow divorce, some are lenient and some are strict on their rules, but gay marriage is not accepted by a lot of churches (I believe there are a few that permit gay marriage) and that is the difference from a religious point of view.

[Che]

Yeah, it would be nice if people took more values in marriage, but I feel those days are far long gone. People are getting married not just for love anymore, but for financial reasons, or just to fill in some emptiness in their lives for a few years before they decide to do something else.

And you know what? Who cares. I will be getting married for love, and if I can do that, then everyone should be able to do whatever they want.

Don't ban divorce, that's ridiculous. What's sometimes worse than divorce? People staying together who obviously shouldn't have been married in the first place. So if you're going to ban divorce, you have to ban marriage as well.

So I guess what it comes down to is:

STOP TRYING TO THINK RETARDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE INCAPABLE, REMEMBER?

[Phantom]

Yeah, it would be nice if people took more values in marriage, but I feel those days are far long gone. People are getting married not just for love anymore, but for financial reasons, or just to fill in some emptiness in their lives for a few years before they decide to do something else.

And you know what? Who cares. I will be getting married for love, and if I can do that, then everyone should be able to do whatever they want.

Don't ban divorce, that's ridiculous. What's sometimes worse than divorce? People staying together who obviously shouldn't have been married in the first place. So if you're going to ban divorce, you have to ban marriage as well.

So I guess what it comes down to is:

STOP TRYING TO THINK RETARDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE INCAPABLE, REMEMBER?

People are getting married not just for love anymore, but for financial reasons


I so agree Che. I forgot what show it was I was watching the other night, but it showed this guy who loved this woman, he found out that she had a son from another relationship, but he didn't care, he loved her and her son anyway, but it wasn't til later that he found out that she really wanted to be with him because he was making a lot of money and she wanted that cash to put her son through school, but didn't think at first about his love or his feelings.

EDIT: Now, I know! It was an episode of Ghost Whisper! I love that show.

Needless to say they didn't stay together, but the man said he would still pay for her's son's education, because even through the boy wasn't his blood, he felt like he was like his new father in a way.

And it seems on most of the reality shows I watch, most women just want to marry rich guys, instead of marrying for love or not even thinking about that not so rich guy who loves her, most not all women want the guy who's the richest and can buy them everything they want. I feel sorry for the men in these cases, because most have no idea that they are about to marry golddiggers. On the other side of the coin are beautiful women who love men not for their wallets, but for them, and to those awesome women (even through I'm not striaght) I salute you and would definitely want you as a wife if I was straight. xD

[OceanEyes28]

I don't think any state should (or will) actually ban divorce, but I appreciate the point he's trying to get across. If marriage is so sacred and worth protecting that you have to ban it from an entire group of people just to protect it, then hey, why not ban divorce too? That'll protect the union between man and woman for sure.

What I would love, and what I think these people would love as well, is for Proposition 8 to be repealed and for everyone to just mind their own business and stop judging what is love and what isn't. No one is forcing churches to perform ceremonies they don't believe in, but it would be nice (and fair) to have the option.

[Tiffany]

If marriage is so sacred and worth protecting that you have to ban it from an entire group of people just to protect it, then hey, why not ban divorce too? That'll protect the union between man and woman for sure.

That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I think its a funny way to show people just how absurd it is (IMO) to ban gay marriage for the reason of protecting traditional marriage. Traditional marriage is a joke these days, there's nothing left to protect!

I won't get into my rant about not allowing gay/lesbians to marry... it really grinds my gears. How people think it can be any of their business what other people do still astounds me.

[RagnaToad]

I read the story about the guy who started the petition some months ago.

If I recall correctly, his argument was something like "Well if marriage is such a sacred vowe that is not suited for gay people, why not make divorce illegal, huh folks?".

Obviously, he's not really against divorce. He's mocking the lame arguments politicians use to not let gay people marry.

I like it.

[Che]

Pretty amazing to look back and see all the retarded stuff we did, like burning people because someone thought they were a witch, etc. And yet today, stuff like this is still going on.

It's actually really ****ing sad when you look at all the issues we have today. Most of it is caused by people who are so tied to religion that they can't focus on the greater good.

Will it ever change? Seems like we're progressing way too slow.