Should I stay or should I go?

[Alpha]

Moving out.

I'm thinking about moving into a flat with two of my best friends. Not sure if I should do it, so I'm asking for you to list general pros and cons of moving out of home and in with friends.

The context-specific pros and cons are:

Pros:
-They're my friends. It will be awesome.
-One plays guitar and the other drums. I'm learning bass. BAND.
-I'll learn to be more independent and better with money and be an adult and get a haircut.

Cons:
-It's even further away from things (uni, the gym, work, the shops) than I currently am.
-Probably a negative impact on my study, maybe, but one of them is still at uni also.
-Expensive. Will have to work more, spend less on frivolous things, and get more (government, interest-free) debt.

Your turn, go!

Also anecdotes of good/bad things are cool too.

[loaf]

Ummm. I was on my own for a bit. I learned that you can quickly not like your friends any more.

You notice people's habits.

[che]

Working more and spending more will make you more responsible (better) person. Dealing with people who are not exactly like you or don't have any relation to you will make you a better person. If anything, you should do it for those reasons alone.

You might hate one of them towards the end of the lease (or w/e you decide on). That's okay, still goes with my first paragraph. However, you might really like and be influenced by another, although you'd drop their shitty traits and take their good ones.

Being independent from your parents is an important stage in being an adult. You're gonna have to do it someday. So will they, why not experience that together?

I'm a definite on doing it.

[Taco-Calamitous]

What che said. Get out on your own. It's so much more awesome than living with your parents. So much more freedom. You don't have to deal with their nagging or anything! Then again, you don't get to eat their food or use their stuff anymore, either.

Still. Yeah. You might either learn that you cannot stand living with your friends or that you absolutely love your friends. I experienced both instances in living with friends. Depends upon the individual and your compatibility, I guess. With me, it kind of came down to whether they respected my shit or not. The ones I loved did, the one I couldn't stand didn't. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[NikkiLinkle]

Moving out of home is always good. I've never lived with bunch of people though, so I don't know about that. My sister used to live in a share house and the people never did the dishes, so my sister ended up doing it, because she didn't want to live in a dirty house. But then they expected her to do it, so she moved out on her own.

Moving out with friends is good though, because you know them and it gives you a bit of experience in living away from home for not so much of the cost. If you live alone you have to pay for everything yourself. Yeah you might end up not liking your friends at the end, but you will learn a lot about yourself and you'll be able to move out on your own in the future with no problems. And you can always make new friends.

I've lived in two places. It's awesome. Although my mum does miss me

Do it! Good luck

[Unknown Entity]

Ummm. I was on my own for a bit. I learned that you can quickly not like your friends any more.

You notice people's habits.

I've not flown the nest yet, but I know that'll happen with me at least. Sometimes having friends over in my room for a few hours can bug the hell out of me, so living with them might be worse.

I can also see the whole band thing being fun and games for a few weeks before it gets old. From my experience (or, rather, an experience I witnessed from my friends starting a band) it all goes downhill when a) someone gets a boyfriend/girlfriend (even worse when it's two people in the band), b) someone doesn't have time to practice/has other plans, c) there's an argument over something stupid resulting in serious butt sore, d) as a result of all three, you have nowhere to practice. Depends how serious you want to go with it (my friends were pretty serious... had me almost done making their website and flyer designs when they "broke up").

While having some responsibility and having your own independence is important, it's a huge step unlike no other. So if moving out is the only way you're going to be responsible and independent enough to go out to a barber and get a haircut, maybe living with the parents isn't a bad thought after all?

I'd like to move out, but I'd need a full time job with reliable hours to make it. Ideally, to live comfortably in the areas of London I want to live in, I'd need at least £20k a year. £18 would push it. My current job can barely give me half of that.

As for moving out with friends, it's something I have talked about with some. I've discussed moving to live five thousand miles away from where I am now. My best friend has mentioned it once or twice about us getting a place, but I don't think it'd work out - she's much more wild (in good ways) than I am, and I'll end up looking like a bad guy when I try and set down ground rules (nothing as bad as "Sheldon's Room Mate Agreement" from The Big Bang Theory). Me and my boyfriend have briefly discussed it too, as he's twenty-seven and living back at home after being in the army, and thinks it's lame.

[Yoko]

I've had a lot of experience away from home. All are worth spending a long time away from home to achieve. I definitely like the thought of being able to lock my own door when I need privacy. At home, I share a room with my sister, privacy is rather hard to come by. That said, I enjoy living away from my parents house. My thing is that I also like to move in with random people I don't know. The more random the better. That way when it turns out that I hate them by the end of the lease, I will never have to see them or converse with them again. It makes moving out and moving on a lot easier. On the other side of the scale, I have lived with randoms that turned out to be really good friends. We say each other through some heavy drama and I helped some people through it. By the time the lease was over, I was moving back home for a work term and the other guys went their own ways. Now that I'm back in the area again, they seemed to welcome me into their home(s) with open arms. It's a nice thing to have when that kind of drama took place in my own home. Since you (Alpha) are a guy living with other guys, I would suspect that you wouldn't see the kind of drama that I had to deal with. One thing that would get on my nerves is the mess that guys tend to leave behind. I will be moving in with four guys that I don't know tomorrow. I'm really not sure what to think of it myself, but I am hoping to avoid the drama that has happened in two other houses that I was renting. They were with other females of course. This scenario has some pros and cons itself. Some were mentioned above, but some pros here is that we have three excellent entertainment systems in the same house. I mean three HUUUGE TV systems all hooked up to some sort of gaming system. I am excited.

If you don't mind the mess and whatever, or clean up after yourself, you won't have much a problem. Work is a necessary evil that needs to occur in order for you to live. You don't need to go out and party to have fun. We had house parties or went out on the town for a few hours if I wasn't busy with studying. We didn't need money to have a good time, just an adventurous mind and good company. Not to mention you can invite all the girls that you like without getting scolded by parents for having a new girl over every night. Haha. Not that you would do that of course. I'm just saying that you have more freedom to do so. What I also liked about having my own place to live was the internet. The library was usually closed early (especially in the summer), so we would either need to wake up early to study in the library, or go over to someone else's house. As soon as I got my own internet, that didn't need to happen. You also can't have a beer and study in the library, if you know what I'm poking at.

tl;dr-Living away from home is a lot of fun. You just have to get over the necessary responsibilities that comes with it. Since you'll have to learn about them eventually, why not learn while you're living with friends. You can help each other out, you know? That said, if you don't like it, get out. Nuff Said.

Enjoy

[Sasquatch]

Expenses.

Before I say anything else, I'll say this: Make sure you realize how much of an investment it is to move out of your parents' house.

The obvious: You'll pay your own bills. There's electricity (and, possibly, gas), internet, cable/sattelite TV, water, sewer, etc.

The not-so-obvious: Right now, what do you own? Do you own your bed? All of your furniture (dresser, etc.)? Do you own a couch/futon/etc., or will somebody in your new place own living room furniture? Does somebody have a microwave? What about pots and pans? Do you actually own plates, bowls, glasses, silverware? When you do move out of the place with your two friends, will you have your own silverware, dishes, and cooking utensils? A TV stand/entertainment center, a bookshelf, a coffee table?

Now ... What will all of that cost?

Now, I've never really had a "roommate" but once, and he moved in for a few months after I had already lived alone for a few years, but I would imagine that exactly that would be the biggest issue: What do I have, and what do I need?

Another thing: I'm sure you trust your friends, as you probably should. BUT ... What do you have to protect your belongings? Not just from break-ins and such, but do you have a safe, a lockbox, or some sort of protected enclosure to hide your precious belongings in? Jewelry, important papers, finances, insurance, SS card, birth certificate, stuff like that. Something safe from burglary and fire.

Apart from all that ... It's always good to get out from beneath the safety net that is your parents' house and venture out on your own. It teaches (forces) responsibility, financial and otherwise. It teaches (forces) self-reliability. It teaches (forces) one to deal with other people on a daily basis, people that they can't really get away from, people that they may learn not to like. You may learn that, once that initial lease is up, you can't stand one or both of your roommates. But that's something you'll have to deal with as you get older and go through jobs and careers, you'll inevitably not like everybody you have to encounter on a day-to-day basis, and it's best to be forced to deal with them at home (on a temporary basis that you'll have a choice to get out of in the future) than wait until later and have no experience with it.

I'd say go for it. Get out on your own, man, do yo thang. Just be prepared.

[Alpha]

Thanks for all your posts.

I've put together a spreadheet of income and expenses for the entire year (a weekly expenses schedule, multiplied by 52 + fixed, one-off expenses (like setting up with house stuff)). I can just afford it on the basis of savings and working extra. Too tight, really, so I think I'll get 'student living costs' (NZ$169.51 a week, that will be added to my student loan -- the entirety of which is interest free). I don't plan to spend all of it, and I'll still work more, but it will be nice to have that to fall back on than be caught short.

In terms of the things Sasquatch mentioned (that was seriously a helpful post), I have only a few things that I need to get started on my own. I've been lazy with all of that, as my girlfriend (who refuses to flat until she finishes uni at the end of this year... so that's next year) has accumulated literally a large wardrobe full of plates, cups, pots, pans, towels, linen... everything is ready to go. All I have is a large pile of savings, a stereo, a desk, a good laptop, and a George Foreman Grill (Knock Out The Fat!).

I accept that a chunk of my savings is going to go on 'flat establishment'; but I also have an incentive to not spend a whole lot on it, given I'll just be doubling up on what my girlfriend has, and my flatmates will need to be building up that stuff themselves.

I'll see how that goes. My main worry is the extra debt I will incur... but given it's interest free, I can pay it back as slowly as I need to. An additional $7000 of debt (the full $169.51 for 37 weeks) is not to be snuffed at though, and will affect things like my ability to save for a home deposit in the future. I don't think my flatmates have considered the long-term repercussions like I have... but I'm indecisive as ****.

[Nas Lost]

buy a chinchilla

[Pete]

As it's been mentioned before, just be careful about moving in with friends. Sure your friends may be an awesome dudes to hang out with from time to time, but people's habits can be a real pain in the ass and completely unknown... until you're living with them. Little things that you've never known about can be completely annoying to the point where you don't want to even hang out with them anymore.

And as for finances, make sure that on top of having your own finances in order, make sure that the people you want to move in with can cover their share of the bills. Figure out what bills you'll have, how much rent is a month and decide on what kind of tv/internet packages you want, and how you'll split them, and then figure out what everyone's contributions for the month are and when they're due. Little things like this go a long way to preventing fights in the long run, since it eliminates any surprises.

When I lived with friends in college, one girl decided that she would use her room exclusively as storage and that she would live with her boyfriend in another house. Because of this, she felt that she wasn't going to pay her fourth of the utilities and cable bill. It led to much drama and she no longer talks to us.

[Josh_R]

I have been out of my parents house since I 17 years old. So far it has been an extraordinary experience. I have lived in several different places, with friends, people I don't really know. The most important thing I learnt about being on my own was having to be responsible. When I lived with my family they provided food, shelter, etc for me, so if I wanted to spend money on a game or something expensive I had it. Once I had bills I had to budget spending. If you do choose to move out you need to have a talk with your friends. Make sure your bills are taken care of before any unnecessary spending. I have had several arguments with former roommates because they would spend money on stupid shit then not have money in time for bills.

About what Sasquatch said about furniture. It is very important to have some of any kind. I mean shit if you don't have a bed of your own then that is bad. You don't need much to start, cause I learned living on my own you will gain furniture ,and things like that as time goes. My parents let me take my bed with me, and a few other things, such as a recliner, and a futon. So I had a little start on that stuff already.

Kind of a repeat of some things mentioned above, hope it helps a bit though. I'm looking forward to hearing what you plan to do.

[OceanEyes28]

You can usually find decent end-tables and other small furniture items (and sometimes bigger things like couches and dining tables) at Goodwill/Salvation Army-type stores for a comparatively small amount of money. And there are always stackable shelves and folding tables (add table cloth for fancy). For furniture, I always reminded myself that whatever I moved in, I'd have to move out. So if I knew I was only living somewhere for 9 months, my surroundings would be pretty scarce. I didn't mind.

This is exciting, though, I hope it goes well for you.

Also, you should definitely lay out some ground rules about kitchen etiquette. Do you share food? Do you clean your dishes after you use them, or is it fine if they sit in the sink for a few days? Do you always clean up immediately after using someone else's dish? Is leaving post-it notes with requests that the other roommate/s clean considered passive aggressive or diplomatic?

Because seriously, the thing I hear bitched about the most (I'm guilty of it myself) is dish washing. Everybody I know has something to say about how their roommate is/was a ****ing cunt about washing dishes.

There are things that are not awesome about renting, especially at the price range of the average 20-something. But even with semi-shitty apartments, you'll enjoy the heck out of it. Even when it was so cold in my apartment that I didn't need a fridge to keep my food cold (because I had no heat and relied on a space heater to sleep at night)... I kinda liked it. Even when I woke up to gun shots down the street, or got followed home by a homeless guy... I liked my apartment.

I'm about to live by myself, actually. In an apartment with no roommate in a nice area. Seeing a place tomorrow to see if I want to apply. So I'm right there with you! Super excited. Yay us!

[Michael Swayne]

I have been out on my own for nearly a year now (time flies...), and it has definitely been an experience. For me, the greatest thing I learned was that despite what money looks like it is made of (paper, copper, etc.), it is actually made of rubber. I learned that money can really stretch.

But I had it luckier than most. I live in a fully-furnished four-bedroom, three-bathroom house. I just have to pay the water, electric, and internet bills.

Some choose to leave the nest, some are forced to, and some (like me) have to maintain the nest while everyone else has flown away.

[Yoko]

You're totally Right, OceanEyes.

Also, you should definitely lay out some ground rules about kitchen etiquette. Do you share food? Do you clean your dishes after you use them, or is it fine if they sit in the sink for a few days? Do you always clean up immediately after using someone else's dish? Is leaving post-it notes with requests that the other roommate/s clean considered passive aggressive or diplomatic?

I'm currently living with those four guys I mentioned. It's only been a week and I already start to notice their habits. I'm pretty sure they left the same dish in there from last week. That said, I have my own dishes that I tend to use/wash/ put into the dishwasher. I didn't take care of the initial mess that was already here, because it wasn't mine. After the guys cleaned it (and I was surprised he cleaned the whole house too ^.^) I'm more inclined to help out. Although, there was a party over the weekend, and I got hammered with them, I feel more compelled to help them out, even though I still didn't make the mess. I buy my own food and eat my own food. Clean my own dishes for the most part. Its kind of selfish, but it's better than relying on someone else, or me making dinner for five people all the time. I like making dinner for myself.

It really depends on the types of rules you make for yourself though. I'm too used to people stealing my food, I've put an end to it. I keep the stuff that doesn't need to be refrigerated in my room and other stuff in their appropriate places. They did drink my coke, but it was the end of the bottle and I think they thought it was theirs, so I didn't mind. They've been good with everything else though. Overall, a good bunch of guys anyway

Make a decision yet? Money is ALWAYS going to be a problem. It's a fact of life. You just need to know how to manage it and deal with the phone calls for bills you weren't able to pay. It happens. It's no big deal at the end of the day. Just as long as you have your most important things covered (like rent), you're safe. That's how I do it.

[SOLDIER #819]

You can usually find decent end-tables and other small furniture items (and sometimes bigger things like couches and dining tables) at Goodwill/Salvation Army-type stores for a comparatively small amount of money.

Hellloooo Ally.

If you do decide to move in with your friends, it'd be a good idea to get all of the big and little things settled on paper in ink. How long you're all willing to commit to staying (before possibly reconsidering), who's really using and paying for what, etc. Things happens and people may have to come and go for various reasons, so it's good to make sure everything is spelled out so as to avoid arguments in the future. Sort of like with Pete's bill. It could save you a lot of trouble. When money's involved people can get weird, so an ounce of prevention and all that goes a long way.

Other than that... you're basically starting a new family in a way. Being with friends is cool at first, but even if you're super outgoing you'll just want your own privacy after a while. Or they'll want their privacy. It's good to get a measure of what you want and what they want in the way of... just about everything. Everyone's coming out of different houses with different values, so yeah. You're not really on your own, per se. You're just with people you may enjoy living day to day with more than where you currently are.

[Taco-Calamitous]

There are things that are not awesome about renting, especially at the price range of the average 20-something.

Yeah man, that price range for 20-somethings is a bitch. Money is always a problem... Especially when you buy a cat that you can't really afford.

There's another thing to consider; be wise with your money. Don't spend it on a lot of stupid things you don't need, because that will come back to bite you on your very anus. Anyhoo...

Wuv, Yer Mom

[sayian]

its all about your tolerance/financial situation. you have to pay for comfort.. me, i just moved my lil cousin with me to get him out of the "hood".. i miss bein bukket nekked in the living room playing streetfighter 3 at 4am screaming at the tv like "BIIIIIOOOOTTCH" because i finally whooped akuma's ass with ryu after about 5 tries when ever i wanted... u havent lived untill u've dont that.. if u can afford it, get ur own place.

[Alpha]

Hmm dishes could be an issue, but what I've been thinking about is how we're gonna sort meals.

At the moment the plan is to a communal shop, and take turns cooking dinner (2 nights each, with takeaway fish and chips on the Friday... because we're stereotypes). But I can see that breaking down in a number of ways. First, we're never home together, with uni and work, I don't think there is one night in the week when we are all there at dinner. Secondly, what if someone cooks something that another doesn't like? I can't eat tomatoes, for example (I'm allergic). Third, we all pay a third of the shop, but an individual may eat more than a third of the stuff, especially if they are home more often.

I'd prefer to cook for myself. I could plan out my own meals, and when I'd have leftovers for lunch. I'd only cook what I know I like, and I could cook it when I need it and am home. I could go vegetarian, like I tried.

How do/have you guys sorted out meals when flatting?