Piracy!

[Xanatos]

I'm not sure where to put this, for time being I'll place it here.

Your thoughts on piracy, ideas how to reduce it, and pretty much anything related you have to say on this as of recently particularly hot topic.

I'm probably the last one who has anything to say on how wrong and illegal piracy is, almost every game I owned so far has been a copy. Over the years piracy became a huge issue in my country, sadly, it reached level of being almost legal. Main cause of that though would be games and some other medias being way too expensive for our standard of living. 60 euros for a brand new game may not seem much to some, but when your average paycheck is 400 euros games instantly become luxury you can't afford. There's also quality issue, it might just be me but not many games seem good enough to justify such price.

Luckily, there are some other options, Steam for instance. My brother buys games on Steam, great site really, though I prefer a hard copy. I think piracy wouldn't be such an issue in areas such as mine if other companies followed Blizzard's footsteps. While not perfect approach it proved efficient enough, Blizzard offered 50-60% off on all their major titles in Russia, but restricting them in multiplayer after certain amount of time, year or so I think.

[kurohime]

I know what you mean, I can't say anything about piracy either. But this also restricts the rights of people who post their art on websites like Deviant art. Another Example is games, Most of us can't afford the latest games and if i found the same game that is a copy and is $10 or15$ cheaper, I won't hesitate to buy it.

[nix]

Are we talking gaming piracy or movies also ??

In regards to gaming, im on the fence, on games that are good and deserve peoples money i think piracy is wrong. However for games that are made by the likes of activision, EA or now ever Squareenix im all for piracy and robbing them for all they got, as they just rush out unfinished games or cater to the idiotic masses and are undeserving of peoples funds. Final fantasy games used to be full of so much depth and complex stories, now they are just pretty graphics with ****in stoopid battle systems and lame voice acting..

However i mostly only play multiplayer games these days and have to buy regardless, as single player games dont give me much of a challenge, id only play single player for story and games these days are seriously lacking in that department however i have given up buying games from the companies above..

The next game i probably will buy will be Max Payne and the new Hitman, both games have always been very enjoyable and required some element of skill.. Max payne is easy but its just a fun game to play and i love Noir

Blizzard are also turning into money grubing ****s, i was looking forward to Diablo 3 until they brought in the real money Auction house. Now i will not buy it or i will look into piracy for the first time in many many years.

[Xanatos]

Are we talking gaming piracy or movies also ??

Movies? Sure, anything related to piracy really. I used games as a main subject since they're pretty much the most expensive media out there and probably the biggest target of piracy.

Speaking of movies, I know to download newest movie every now and then, but I usually watch movies on television or just go to cinema if I'm really eager to see it.

@Che - Well said +rep

[che]

Stealing is wrong. Let's not forget that videogames are a form of technology. All technology is overpriced when it first comes out, and then decreases. You basically pay ridiculous prices to use it first, and then the technology gradually becomes cheaper over time. If you can't afford it, then don't play it. I realize it's hard though, when all your friends are spending their 60/400 euros on the game and then bragging to you about their entertainment.

Yet you have to remember that they are providing you a service, and selling you a product. You wouldn't want anyone stealing the work or service you do and you not receiving any compensation for it. You'd stop doing the work, and shout "BULLSHlT", wouldn't you?

However, I do not agree with the fact that all games have the same set value. Every single game sold here (for the most part) is $59.99. Some games simply do not provide the same lasting entertainment value as other games. Perhaps there is a way to compromise, not just from the consumer's point of view on this issue. Maybe some games should be sold at a lower price in comparison with some of the more content-beefy games.

It's easy to feel exploited as a consumer when it comes to technology, especially videogames. Especially when there is such a strong culture and community to be a part of that encourages you to buy the latest thing to enjoy with your friends.

Do you know why companies such as Blizzard are such "money-grubbing whores"? Because they make products that appeal to a broad target audience. With the gaming culture, you are almost outcasted in a certain way if you are not playing their game. They can sort of manipulate you in this way because people will pay for it. If you aren't paying for it, the next million people in line behind you are waiting for you to get out of their way.

As influential as your friends might be, stealing their product just because 7 million others are going to be paying Blizzard for their product doesn't make it okay. You aren't the person to be able to decide "okay well you've made enough, mister."

On piracy, I do think it harms the industry. I believe nothing should be stolen from the creator. Music, movies, videogames, art etc. Though you could make the argument "well, I pirated it because I would have never bought it for reasons such as not being able to afford it or I wasn't that into it". I'm then torn, because everything should be sold at a value that people are willing to pay for. If every game is 59.99, then this leaves us with little room to negotiate.

tl;dr Don't steal shit. Don't sell me a loaf of bread for 60$ when it cost you 5$ to make it. I will steal your loaf of bread like I'm Aladdin and share it with my equally poor friend Abu like I'm Robin Hood.

[Nas Lost]

I dint pirate games, i just wait a couple years when they hit 20 dollars

[Clint]

Pirates don't usually steal games or movies. They tend to just steal ships and take hostages. And occasionally murder people.

Now that I think about it, actual piracy seems like a much bigger issue then video piracy. People who illegally download videos or games or whatever are losers who can't afford things that cost $5 used, and cops are losers for actually caring about it.

[nix]

Blizzard take the piss though, take for instance.

Alot of their servers are highly unbalanced population wise, they make little to no effort to help balance the servers people play on and pay a monthly fee to do so, instead the prey on the addiction that they provide and basically only give players the option to pay to transfer to a better balanced server.

Now with Diablo 3 they are providing a real money auction house which they will make a % of real money from each real money sale of an in game item. Which will also affect the game greatly, they are basically letting the rich get geared faster while the others will have to work ALOT harder just so they can make MORE money.

That is just pure greed and i'm glad for piracy as ill be ****in pirating any game they bring out that i wanna play in the future.

Same goes for hollywood movies, they churn out complete shit and expect us to pay top dollar for it, take those transformer movies for example, complete horseshit and glad they lose alot of money due to piracy. If they wanna have people pay for a cinema experience then provide a worthy movie..

Now for a humourus clip..

The IT Crowd Piracy Ad - YouTube

[che]

Blizzard take the piss though, take for instance.

Alot of their servers are highly unbalanced population wise, they make little to no effort to help balance the servers people play on and pay a monthly fee to do so, instead the prey on the addiction that they provide and basically only give players the option to pay to transfer to a better balanced server.

Now with Diablo 3 they are providing a real money auction house which they will make a % of real money from each real money sale of an in game item. Which will also affect the game greatly, they are basically letting the rich get geared faster while the others will have to work ALOT harder just so they can make MORE money.

That is just pure greed and i'm glad for piracy as ill be ****in pirating any game they bring out that i wanna play in the future.

Same goes for hollywood movies, they churn out complete shit and expect us to pay top dollar for it, take those transformer movies for example, complete horseshit and glad they lose alot of money due to piracy. If they wanna have people pay for a cinema experience then provide a worthy movie..

Now for a humourus clip..

The IT Crowd Piracy Ad - YouTube

A lot of people like to play on low population servers. Lag issues in cities on servers with a large population, more sense of local community, no server queue times, it's their "home" and they don't wanna leave. Etc.

As far as Diablo III, it's also letting me play a game casually and making a few extra bucks for spending my free time playing it. I haven't heard of a monthly fee. So I spend the $59.99, play a game, possibly make more than I invested on it. No other game in the history of games has allowed me to say that for the time invested, I still made more money off the game than I initially invested in it. Then I can log onto some other game that doesn't allow people to just buy their way to the 2nd to best items in the game (or whatever they will be). I dunno. I probably won't play Diablo III, but just making a point.

Also, you and I may not pay to see Transformers 4, but I bet a lot of people would. They're not marketing to us, they're marketing to people who will be like "take my money NOW!!!!!!" That is exactly why Hollywood can be so shitty. I can't say if I was in their place I wouldn't do the same, tbh.

[nix]

Right but if thats the standard they are happy to provide then they should be ready to accept the fact that people are pirating their movies as they know it will likely be a waste of money to go see it in the flicks..

Movies made well can still wrangle in the numbers, just take kickass for example, that movies done incredibly well and its marketing was mainly done on the word of mouth and alot of people saying it was good.

You are almost guranteed a movie will be shit and not worth your money these days based on the add and how much action they throw into it, take clash of the titans for example, looks good on the add but thats because they show all the good bits and the movie itself was complete muck

So in my opinion, If a higher standard of game/movie was provided. Alot more people would feel they deserve the money, alot of them churn out shit, and suffer for it.

[che]

Right but if thats the standard they are happy to provide then they should be ready to accept the fact that people are pirating their movies as they know it will likely be a waste of money to go see it in the flicks..

Movies made well can still wrangle in the numbers, just take kickass for example, that movies done incredibly well and its marketing was mainly done on the word of mouth and alot of people saying it was good.

You are almost guranteed a movie will be shit and not worth your money these days based on the add and how much action they throw into it, take clash of the titans for example, looks good on the add but thats because they show all the good bits and the movie itself was complete muck

So in my opinion, If a higher standard of game/movie was provided. Alot more people would feel they deserve the money, alot of them churn out shit, and suffer for it.

Point well made. I think they are pretty aware of this. Make shit movie for masses, rake in money, discourage piracy. People who don't want to pay for the 16th Pirates of the Carribean will download it, enjoy it more because they didn't pay for it, maybe give it a decent review instead of a 0/5 stars, more people will buy it. In the end they still made their money, but they still have to fear people who know what's going on otherwise they can't make the easy money.

[Halie]

So in my opinion, If a higher standard of game/movie was provided. Alot more people would feel they deserve the money, alot of them churn out shit, and suffer for it.

I highly doubt making better movies, etc. would reduce piracy very much. Even the most brilliant of films still get downloaded illegally because people think "Why bother paying my hard earned money when I can just get it for free online?" regardless of how good it is. It's not right, but that's the way it is I guess.

I've never had a pirated game before. If there's a game I want I always wait until it's been out for a while so the price has dropped. Like Skyrim, I probably won't get that until sometime next year or maybe earlier depending on if I finish the 4 games I already have to finish. I only got Oblivion less than three weeks ago, and that's been out for a while. What can I say, I'm a cheap skate.

[NikkiLinkle]

I guess if you were a musician, movie person or a game maker, you wouldn't appreciate people ripping you off. I can't say I've never stolen music. So I'm not innocent there. But if I want a game or if I want to see a movie I buy it. If I can't afford it, I'll wait until I can.

There really is no excuse I suppose. I know goods and stuff cost more and more these days and peoples wages aren't really going up enough to compensate. But that's the way the world works.

If you want something, you should pay for it, unless it is given to you free.

[loaf]

I have not ever done this Piracey stuff. You wouldn't steal a baby! You wouldn't steal a car!!!!! WHY WOULD YOU STEAL A MOVIE!

[loaf]

Inception was a good solid movie. No way I was going to ****ing buy it so I can watch it once at my house.

[Alpha]

Stealing someone's intellectual property is wrong. That is already reflected in law. (As an aside, in the wake of the Megaupload arrests -- apparently it operated out of Auckland, NZ, and they laundered money in our banks -- filesharing is not illegal. There are legitimate reasons to use file sharing. For instance, if it is your intellectual property, and you want to share it. But if someone else takes your property and gives it away for free without your consent and/or knowledge, then that is theft.)

But before you get high and mighty, consider this. Have you ever borrowed a DVD from a friend? Lent them that album that you've been pumping? Put on a film for the crew of your oil rig to watch (wtf, ikr)? Then you're a pirate.

Lending a CD of music that you do not hold the copyright for is the exact same principle as uploading to filesharing websites. It's illegal, but we all still do it to a limited extent. Like smoking weed or underage drinking. That doesn't make it right, but it does to some extent excuse the behaviour, and it does not warrant the kind of punishments and central government power that seems to be demanded by the music/movie industries. (A law in NZ, now in effect, gives three warnings for copyright infringement, and then a tribunal has the power to fine you $10,000 and suspend your access to the Internet -- and you have to prove your own innocence... which is pretty much not possible).

The other point I want to make is that downloading is not the same kettle of fish as stealing, say, a loaf of bread or an iPod. Those things are tangible and rival (if you take them, someone else doesn't have them anymore). Downloading files is not like that. You've still taken someone's intellectual property that they worked to create (and therefore justly deserve compensation in form of the market price of that property), but no actual movement of matter has occurred, and no one is physically affected by the downloading. This is not such an important point, but should be borne in mind.

Another point is that the music and movie industries have failed to sufficiently adapt their business practices for the capabilities of the 21st century -- and this opens doors to piracy simply because there are few alternatives. For instance, US TV shows screen in the US pretty much an entire year before they get to New Zealand. We hear about them from friends, on the internet, in newspapers -- but are not allowed to watch them yet, because the prices charged for them are too high for our public and private TV networks to shoulder. But why should we have to wait an entire additional year just to see programmes that exist as computer files? We don't have Netflix. Our only option, aside from waiting, is to download them (or you know, borrow a DVD from a friend--which is the same thing in principle). We're sick of getting Christmas specials for the previous year in July (no shit), and having all of our TV shows spoiled a season in advance. If they won't recognise that is is SO EASY to get these things to us -- and that we're willing to pay privately -- then of course we're going to download.

Music is different. As it is not bought by networks and then beamed to us, there is a lesser degree of lag. Still, if a label doesn't distribute here, then we just can't get our hands on that new band (although, large labels have an efficient and effective global distribution system, so again, music is less of an issue). The real issue for music is that I don't feel as though I should have to spend $35 on an album that I've heard one track off. I don't know if I like the album until I've listened to it. My budget for music is only so large -- I genuinely can't afford to waste it on CDs that I don't like -- and I can't return them to the shop, because they know I've burned the songs to my computer. I download music in order to listen to an album or artist I have yet to hear, and then if I like it, I am more likely to buy their music, or go watch their concert.

And if it's music that I can't find in the store, I don't feel like I should buy from iTunes, because there is absolutely no difference between the music I download illegally, and the music I download from iTunes. Sure, the artist misses their cut -- but if I actually like their music, I'm more likely to pay for it in the future/see them in a show.

So, in summary: I know and urge you to understand that violating copyright is illegal. But I also think it is distinct from physical theft, and has ameliorating justifications. I also contend that business practices of the movie and music (and increasingly video game) industries have failed to keep up with the demands of consumers, and the capabilities of the 21st century -- leaving the only option of piracy for many who don't have the privilege of living in Western Europe or North America.

[Clint]

Piracy will always be around, just like drugs will, there is no stopping it.

One way to solve the problem of video piracy is to set off a global electromagnetic pulse every half an hour for the rest of time. Though anybody with a digital watch won't know the time. So, as you can see, since I'm already planning this, piracy will not always be around. I have a solution for drugs, too, but I'll save that for another time. Okay, fine, I'll tell you. Red wood. There, you got it out of me. Now you know my plans for world domination.

Stealing someone's intellectual property is wrong. That is already reflected in law.

If somebody's intellectual property is made public, and is being distributed by a production company, then it no longer belongs to them. It then belongs to a group of corporate douche bag who's passion in life is to kiss ass, who deserve to have their material pirated since the selling rate is so damn overpriced.

But before you get high and mighty, consider this. Have you ever borrowed a DVD from a friend? Lent them that album that you've been pumping? Put on a film for the crew of your oil rig to watch (wtf, ikr)? Then you're a pirate.

And that is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. I got seven people living in my house. By that logic, if I buy a movie, and the rest of my people want to watch it, we have to buy seven copies, because otherwise, we're video pirates.


So, all this aside, video piracy is not an actual crime and doesn't actually matter. It's not piracy, because piracy is robbery that's committed at sea. As long as you don't steal movies, or music, or whatever, off of a boat, then it isn't video piracy.

[Alpha]

And that is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever heard. I got seven people living in my house. By that logic, if I buy a movie, and the rest of my people want to watch it, we have to buy seven copies, because otherwise, we're video pirates.

That's private personal use. I couldn't tell you the specifics, but lending is prohibited. Pick up a DVD at random and read the outside of the disc. I'll do it. It says:

Warning: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD is prohibited.

[Clint]

That's private personal use. I couldn't tell you the specifics, but lending is prohibited. Pick up a DVD at random and read the outside of the disc. I'll do it. It says:

Warning: All rights of the producer and of the owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD is prohibited.

So they're trying to tell you what you can and can't do with your own property. If I pay my own money for a DVD, I'm lending it to whoever I want to lend it to. It doesn't belong to the production company. It did when it was in theaters. They lost that right when they decided to release their product for anybody to own. Their warnings are propaganda and bullshit, and about as much of a joke as their line of business.

[Alpha]

But how is lending someone the DVD any different from enabling people to download the file over the Internet? In both instances you own the disc but the other person doesn't.

[Clint]

But how is lending someone the DVD any different from enabling people to download the file over the Internet? In both instances you own the disc but the other person doesn't.

Because you aren't giving them a physical copy of the product, which is why if you're going to loan your music to somebody, you should always buy a CD, and not those stupid M3P things or whatever they're called.

[nix]

But how is lending someone the DVD any different from enabling people to download the file over the Internet? In both instances you own the disc but the other person doesn't.

Well you're lending your dvd to millions of people world wide, and then they lend and so on, realistically its copying and ideally its just on a much grander scale.

Again, im all for coughing up the doh for the artists, but fook the shit movie/music/game makers that try to cut corners, they deserve this hardship.

[Joe]

I'm a self described pirate, and while I acknowledge that it isn't right by any stretch of the word, I also can't really afford to spend a lot of money.

I HAVE noticed, however, that since subscribing to netflix and installing spotify, my piracy has cut down Drastically. I can almost always find something to watch on netflix, and I can also explore new music for free via spotify or things like iheartradio.

I don't know how to curb game piracy, outside of lowering prices, but I could see subscription services for movie and music services for a low and reasonable price would definitely work.

You know that if you could get unlimited streaming for, say, 35 dollars a month to any movie, and maybe a seperate service for tv shows, EVERYONE would jump on it (provided it's easier than pirating, something akin to netflix or hulu style applet). This would provide a far larger consumer base as more people would be purchasing this service. That price is a low ball. I'm only paying 8 bucks a month for netflix, and would be willing to pay more if the catalog were to expand, and I'm cheap/poor as hell.

[RamesesII]

I think the pirates of today's era aren't as malevolent or rambunctious as the used to be in the time of Red beard and Black Beard per say now they truly struck fear into the wary travelers heart. Maybe we should fight piracy with pirates.

I think the artists/developers get enough money as it is, you can't stop piracy and as long as the social media revolution is rising than nothing is technically protected be it an article or media of some kind.