Make the right choices and be safe.

[Rowan]

Discuss. Didnt post in ID, because it seems like common sense, at least to me.

[che]

I've always said this. People like to say "don't tell me what to wear and to not walk down a dark alley. I shouldn't have to be told how to dress or where to go or be". Well, yeah. You shouldn't. But rapists obviously don't play by the rules. If you are driving along in your car, and police are exchanging gunfire with a suspect in the street, you don't keep driving past because "you shouldn't have to stop, firing a weapon in public is illegal". You turn the **** around, and you don't go down that street.

Obviously you can wear whatever you want. But when I tell my sister or my girlfriend to be careful when they are going out, I don't mean "you deserve to get raped in that". I just mean, there are people who are easily turned on by light clothing that don't play by our rules. But ****, it's not like a woman wearing a gigantic fur coat and beanie, exposing nothing but her face has never been raped.

And ****s sake, do you just google feminist stuff all day to debunk it? There are feminists who are logical and reasonable, and then there's those that just want to argue with everything you say just because they recently read some blogs and their mindset has completely changed. Like wow, I never thought of that! More proof that there is a patriarchal society. And in a sense, we're all feminist. There's just a shitload of them neo-feminist pricks who feel entitled by their ideas and want to belittle others.

[Rowan]

And ****s sake, do you just google feminist stuff all day to debunk it? There are feminists who are logical and reasonable, and then there's those that just want to argue with everything you say just because they recently read some blogs and their mindset has completely changed. Like wow, I never thought of that! More proof that there is a patriarchal society. And in a sense, we're all feminist. There's just a shitload of them neo-feminist pricks who feel entitled by their ideas and want to belittle others.

Im subscribed to a bunch of free-thought bloggers and thunderf00t happens to be one of my favorites, as well as a pretty neat scientist. I hate the fact that so many can preach their point of view, but you get pissed when I like to discuss another view. Theres hardly any discussion on here, and its sad when people get put down for posting, what could turn out to be something interesting. Dissapointed in you, che.

And in a sense, we're all feminist.

Thats a poor observation of a very arbitrary belief.

[che]

Im subscribed to a bunch of free-thought bloggers and thunderf00t happens to be one of my favorites, as well as a pretty neat scientist. I hate the fact that so many can preach their point of view, but you get pissed when I like to discuss another view. Theres hardly any discussion on here, and its sad when people get put down for posting, what could turn out to be something interesting. Dissapointed in you, che.

Haha, nah. I'm not trying to put you down at all! I welcome the discussion. I just noticed you tend to feel strongly about feminist issues. My sarcasm didn't translate well. Next time I'll use a tongue smiley. I like your discussion and opinions. I just don't want you to get caught up on some haters. But actually, go right ahead. I'm too jaded to probably help converse with those types of people, so hopefully you can help share viewpoints to them.

[Rowan]

Haha, nah. I'm not trying to put you down at all! I welcome the discussion. I just noticed you tend to feel strongly about feminist issues. My sarcasm didn't translate well. Next time I'll use a tongue smiley.

yeah it didn't sound very Che, glad to know we're on the same page! In regards to feminism, its a popular issue; especially on TFF. Despite some persons reservations, it would make good discussion when someone who can articulate the points (thunderf00t in this case), has the attention. I'm trying to become a better speaker and thinker, and I look upto people like him and enjoy watching his videos and learning different ways to think. Obviously it was random chance he happened to have so many videos about feminism, I honestly subscribed back when he was talking about religion.

[che]

Thats a poor observation of a very arbitrary belief.

Well, maybe not all of us. But if you believe women should have equal rights as men, then I believe that's egalitarian. Which is what I am. I'm also bad with words and expressing exactly what I mean.
(Which is why I liked your post about learning to be a better speaker)

[Rowan]

Well, maybe not all of us. But if you believe women should have equal rights as men, then I believe that's egalitarian. Which is what I am. I'm also bad with words and expressing exactly what I mean.
(Which is why I liked your post about learning to be a better speaker)

I do believe that women should have equal rights to men, but my resolve differs to yours because I believe they already do. It would make more sense for me to assert that I believe women should continue to have equal rights to men. In my experience and research, you are the minority in your kind of feminism, I would call you an egalitarian before I ever called you a feminist. Most of the things I've posted about attacking feminism, you agree with and begin to tell me thats not what most feminists believe. You would have to convince me the majority of feminists saw things the way you do. Theres an anti-ex-feminist blogger girlwriteswhat who seems to represent your sort of thinking except the belief women are universally treated unequally and was crucified by her feminist community for agreeing with some of the arguments against feminism, and indeed those represented here.

Of course there are going to be people within a community who share a fundemnetal belief, but disagree with other beliefs that branch off. For example, im one of very few atheists who happen to believe that reincarnation is a naturally occuring part of the universe. I was often critisized for it since it can be viewed as going against an atheists primary belief that evidence is required for any sort of rational understanding, but in this case I think there is. I just need to learn how I am able to express this in a manner which makes sense to others. I think its the philosopher in me that brings out this case though.

[loaf]

The only true resolution is to pay women more in the work place.

[Cyric]

I'm not a fan of feminists. I'm a fan of egalitarians.

[Rocky]

i want women's equal rights so I can finally live my pipe dream of being a stay at home trophy dad while my attractive as **** lawyer/doctor wife can go work and pay the bills (they may as well be involved with the working portion over me since male lifespan is shorter right? )

[noxious.sunshine]

Nah. I'm perfectly fine with my bf bringing home the bacon and me just telling him wtf to do and being a "housewife"... Regressive? Probably. But -I- wear the pants in this family, so it doesn't matter.

I do wanna job, though.

[Alpha]

Why it is problematic to give a list of things women can do to avoid being raped: because as much as people like this YouTuber assert, it shifts some of the blame to the victim.

It is not illegal for me to keep my door unlocked; it is always illegal for a burglar to enter my home. Regardless of whether or how I keep my home secure, the only time my property is stolen is if someone enters it without my permission and takes things without my permission.

But not only that, in the case of rape what is at stake is far more fundamental than taking worldly possessions. Further, telling people that they have to dress a certain way (or learn a martial art or ... or) for their own good is requiring a victim to change their perfectly acceptable, legal and free choices when you could spend your energy telling rapists not to rape.

"Your clothes are a statement about you and your intentions. Does anybody even contest this?" Yes, actually. Clothes don't give consent. Consent is the only issue at stake.

Also, his hard hat analogy is terrible. There are no accidental rapes. People wear hard hats to avoid harm in the case of accidents. If construction sites without accidents existed in reality, then you'd only need a hard hat to avoid harm in cases where people dropped things on purpose---so you'd rarely if ever need a hard hat unless you worked with a psychopath... who wouldn't have a job. I gather, however, that construction sites and rape are opposites. Accidents happen on construction sites, but an accidental rape is a misnomer. Intentional harm on construction sites is almost unheard of, whereas the phenomenon of rape is by definition deliberate harm.

Finally, given that the vast majority of rapists are close "friends" and family members of their victims, what the **** does body language and clothing have to do with it?

I do appreciate that your intentions are not bad, Rowan. It's not as if you're here saying "women should be raped more!". You are genuinely concerned with there being less rape in the world. I just don't think that emphasis for this should be placed on (potential) victims.

[che]

i want women's equal rights so I can finally live my pipe dream of being a stay at home trophy dad while my attractive as **** lawyer/doctor wife can go work and pay the bills (they may as well be involved with the working portion over me since male lifespan is shorter right? )

are you into domination? you sound like you'd love to be The Gimp from Pulp Fiction. Just tie you up and throw you in a box until someone's horny enough to bring you out as their sex slave and use you, then put you back in.

Why it is problematic to give a list of things women can do to avoid being raped: because as much as people like this YouTuber assert, it shifts some of the blame to the victim.

It is not illegal for me to keep my door unlocked; it is always illegal for a burglar to enter my home. Regardless of whether or how I keep my home secure, the only time my property is stolen is if someone enters it without my permission and takes things without my permission.

But not only that, in the case of rape what is at stake is far more fundamental than taking worldly possessions. Further, telling people that they have to dress a certain way (or learn a martial art or ... or) for their own good is requiring a victim to change their perfectly acceptable, legal and free choices when you could spend your energy telling rapists not to rape.

Gah. Spend my energy telling a rapist not to rape? I have like...monstrous amounts of energy and telling a rapist not to rape is a waste of time. I can, however, tell my friends to take up a martial art. Not only will you be able to (maybe) kick an unarmed (lol) rapist's ass, but you can learn a lot about yourself through a martial art.

I totally get that its infuriating that rapists get to dictate how we live our short lives. So I guess we shouldn't devote our life to not being raped? Because when we inevitably are raped, despite learning every martial art on the planet and devoting ourselves to archery and shooting targets with handguns and assault rifles and dressing like we're from the north pole, it will all be for not?

You can completely live your life in america without ever owning a gun. Because there are those that do, and hopefully when someone decides to shoot up a movie theater that mother****er is there to save your bitch ass. He took the time and probably ****ing loved devoting his time to learn how to save someone. Anyone. Maybe no one, but he tried. So learning a martial art is suuuuuuuuuch a waste of time.

Blah blah blah. Anyway...

My point is its less of a waste of time to try and protect yourself than to say "**** it, i'm gonna get raped anyway no matter what I do. If someone wants to rape me, they will." You protecting yourself means you're also protecting everything you stand for. Everything you believe in as a person. Every yoga class you took and book you read on how to be intellectual and critically think. You will then also be protecting your children and passing on your beliefs and hopefully that is a belief that raping someone isn't a good ****ing thing to do.

[loaf]

i want women's equal rights so I can finally live my pipe dream of being a stay at home trophy dad while my attractive as **** lawyer/doctor wife can go work and pay the bills (they may as well be involved with the working portion over me since male lifespan is shorter right? )

Not gonna lie. I've thought of hopefully finding a women who is like a lawyer or doctor and just marry her and chill. I've met people who are married to doctors. The dude just like does whatever he wants.

[Rowan]

Also, his hard hat analogy is terrible. There are no accidental rapes. People wear hard hats to
avoid harm in the case of accidents. If construction sites without accidents existed in reality,
then you'd only need a hard hat to avoid harm in cases where people dropped things on purpose---so you'd rarely
if ever need a hard hat unless you worked with a psychopath... who wouldn't have a job. I gather, however, that
construction sites and rape are opposites. Accidents happen on construction sites, but an accidental rape is a misnomer.
Intentional harm on construction sites is almost unheard of, whereas the phenomenon of rape is by definition deliberate
harm.

I dont believe the point of that anology had swayed to define the lines between accidents and deliberation, but just to
furthar point out there are ways to protect yourself in scenarios in which there is danger present. Its not so terrible
if you look at it from that perspective, which I think is what he was going for. Intentional or not, the hammer that fell
on someones head could have been an accident, or it may not have been. Just like in many rape cases there claims to have
been consent, when the woman says otherwise.

Why it is problematic to give a list of things women can do to avoid being raped: because as much as people like this YouTuber assert, it shifts some of the blame to the victim.

In the first minute of the video he asserts that even if women did take into account the aspects they could control, they
can still be raped. I think that statement free's him of any accusation that he's blaming them for getting raped. But
to say a woman has nothing she can control about her chances of becoming a victim, is an utter lie, which is what
I'm trying to address here. This brings me to my most important point..

Finally, given that the vast majority of rapists are close "friends" and family members of their victims, what
the **** does body language and clothing have to do with it?

I had no idea that was true, yet I still think what I'm about to say applies not only just to rape victims, but to
victims of crime in general.

Body language is the absolute number one way for a criminal to identify the perfect victim. I can give countless examples but Ill go for the mainstream ones;
Many victims of crime are drunk. How do you assess someone is drunk? Maybe they are staggering while they are walking. Maybe you hear them slurring words and falling over repeatedly. These are examples of body language. Lets identify another potential victim by their body language. If someone was walking through a park and looking for someone to mug perhaps, we want someone that wont put up a great fight. This person may have their head face down as they walk, they may be slouching or hunched over. They most certainly wont be standing tall, walking with their head high and representing a strong person, when there are other weaker ones available. If you know this person, you may note they don't like making eye contact with you, which means you may already have power over them. People that fidget, bite their nails consistently are also some examples of body language that is used to assess potential victims and their willingness to submit. Not everyone who 'bites their nails' is going to be a weak victim, just as not every woman who has a strong demeanor will not get raped. These are just ways you can lessen the chances of being a victim.

I'm a strong believe in you are responsible for your own actions.

you are NEVER responsible for the actions of another person.

[Heartless Angel]

Why it is problematic to give a list of things women can do to avoid being raped: because as much as people like this YouTuber assert, it shifts some of the blame to the victim.

Blame has nothing to do with it. A crime is always the fault of the criminal, that doesn't mean the victim can't help his/her chances.

It is not illegal for me to keep my door unlocked; it is always illegal for a burglar to enter my home. Regardless of whether or how I keep my home secure, the only time my property is stolen is if someone enters it without my permission and takes things without my permission.

This is true, however, if you know for a fact that you are living in an area in which break ins are commonplace, it's still irresponsible to leave your doors unlocked. It's still the burglars fault that your home was broken in to, but that doesn't change the fact that there are steps you as an individual can take to protect your own property. It's a lot easier for you to lock your doors at night than to go out and try to catch every would be burglar in the area. You have control over one half of the equation, and by manipulating it in your favor, can to an extent improve the probable outcome.

But not only that, in the case of rape what is at stake is far more fundamental than taking worldly possessions. Further, telling people that they have to dress a certain way (or learn a martial art or ... or) for their own good is requiring a victim to change their perfectly acceptable, legal and free choices when you could spend your energy telling rapists not to rape.

Key difference being, spending that energy telling would be victims how to reduce the chances of being victimized might actually prevent a rape here and there. The same energy spent talking to rapists is a complete waste of effort.

"Your clothes are a statement about you and your intentions. Does anybody even contest this?" Yes, actually. Clothes don't give consent. Consent is the only issue at stake.

Consent of the victim is never the only thing at stake, much as it might sound nice to say so. It takes two to tango, regardless of the consent of the second party. If the first (would be rapist) isn't interested, your consent is irrelevant, nothing is going to happen. If the would be victim isn't doing something a would be rapist finds attractive, he's not going to victimize them. There are of course reasonable limits to what a person should consider doing to deter something like that, and at no point is it ever the victim's fault, but that doesn't change the fact that there are actions a would be victim can take to improve their chances. They're not obligated to do so of course, but that's no reason to go out of your way to avoid precautions just because you can. Sure, you shouldn't HAVE to lock your doors at night, but why would you go out of your way to leave them unlocked just to make a statement? What is gained by NOT locking your door? It takes me so little time and effort to lock my door, it doesn't intrude at all upon my way of life, so why shouldn't I lock it? It'd be different if somebody were telling me a break in was my fault if I didn't sit in front of my front door with a shotgun in hand all night every night, but nobody has said anything of the sort. it's not a matter of blame, or obligation for potential victims to take precautions, but if it isn't going to make a tremendous impact in your life, why go out of your way to increase your risk? Sure, you have the right to dress however you want, flirt with strangers all you want, and any other thing you might want to do. I have the right to leave my door unlocked. What do I gain from leaving my door unlocked? Literally nothing. What reason have I to exercise that right? Literally none.

Also, his hard hat analogy is terrible. There are no accidental rapes. People wear hard hats to avoid harm in the case of accidents. If construction sites without accidents existed in reality, then you'd only need a hard hat to avoid harm in cases where people dropped things on purpose---so you'd rarely if ever need a hard hat unless you worked with a psychopath... who wouldn't have a job. I gather, however, that construction sites and rape are opposites. Accidents happen on construction sites, but an accidental rape is a misnomer. Intentional harm on construction sites is almost unheard of, whereas the phenomenon of rape is by definition deliberate harm.

The analogy is perfectly valid, that one party has intent in the case of rape is absolutely irrelevant. The intent of another is something over which you have absolutely no control. Just like the accidents of others on a job site. regardless of who controls the other side of the equation, you control yours. Why would you NOT want to ensure that your odds are as good as you can make them without making unreasonable sacrifices? Of course it isn't your fault if a brick falls on your head at a construction site, but I should hope you at least feel rather stupid about it if it did so whilst you were making a point of not wearing a helmet on the basis that you 'shouldn't have to'. It's one thing if you legitimately have something to gain from leaving your doors unlocked, or not wearing a helmet, but to do so solely because you can? That's just dumb.

[che]

I think we're way too focused on "who's fault is it"? "Who do we blame?" Who gives a ****, it's not important. Anyone who genuinely believes it's the victim's fault they were raped is a complete idiot.

But if there were two stores next to each other, and one had bars on the windows and an alarm system and lights off, and the other had no bars, no alarm, a sign saying that it did not have an alarm, lights off and the door open...you could practically make a fortune betting which one would get robbed if a robber was given a choice which one they'd rather rob.

Still not saying it's okay to rob either place. And the store should be able to wear what it wants. There are reasons that one store will always have a higher chance of being robbed.

Or maybe you can't compare stores to people. But I'm just trying to make a point.

edit: after receiving two likes i edited this, instead of double-posting.* opinions may change

But there's really no way to make a guide on how to get raped less. As I said before, people have been raped wearing the least revealing clothes ever. and what about women in muslim countries? how on earth are those women treated equal? they cannot wear even stuff that reveals their face and they still get raped.

So in lieu of this...here's my (lol) guide to getting raped less: stay in groups of friends you trust. you're more likely to get raped if you're alone. THERE! So there IS something you can do to make it less likely to get raped! (AND it still never makes it the victims fault for getting raped)

edit2: cool. guess likes go away when you edit. i'm okay with this.

[Alpha]

Cool, so can you give me a list of the things women can do to make themselves smaller targets? I'll start, it'll be fun.

Walk in a group.
Have a cellphone.
Be muscular.
Look confident.
Not talk to people.
Walk alone.
Not be female.
Dress modestly.
Dress revealingly.
Not be attacked from behind.
Not have family.
Not get drunk.
Not drink at all.
Being a hermit.
Not existing.

The ****, you guys? A person is not a store or a house. Locking your door is not onerous. Asking a woman to not drink, not flirt, not ever be caught alone, not to not walk in well lit places... they don't sound like reasonable slight inconveniences, they sound like severe limitations on lives. Very few of them will do diddly squat in the vast majority of cases, yet all of them are the type of excuses given by dickhead judges who excuse rapists.

It's like the whole "if we do x, the terrorists win". By compiling this bizarre list of ineffectual things women should do to avoid being raped, you're actually compiling a list of things women can't do because rape exists; and they are far more substantial than locking doors and wearing hard hats.

You don't solve crime by locking doors, especially when we are in a situation where most thieves have keys (rapists are friends and family). It's a lot ****ing harder than that.

[Rowan]

Cool, so can you give me a list of the things women can do to make themselves smaller targets? I'll start, it'll be fun.

Walk in a group.
Have a cellphone.
Be muscular.
Look confident.
Not talk to people.
Walk alone.
Not be female.
Dress modestly.
Dress revealingly.
Not be attacked from behind.
Not have family.
Not get drunk.
Not drink at all.
Being a hermit.
Not existing.

The ****, you guys? A person is not a store or a house. Locking your door is not onerous. Asking a woman to not drink, not flirt, not ever be caught alone, not to not walk in well lit places... they don't sound like reasonable slight inconveniences, they sound like severe limitations on lives. Very few of them will do diddly squat in the vast majority of cases, yet all of them are the type of excuses given by dickhead judges who excuse rapists.

It's like the whole "if we do x, the terrorists win". By compiling this bizarre list of ineffectual things women should do to avoid being raped, you're actually compiling a list of things women can't do because rape exists; and they are far more substantial than locking doors and wearing hard hats.

The sooner you and others acknowledge these scenarios as fact (not everything in your list, in particular), that rapists do indeed have a target criteria selection in mind before choosing a victim, the sooner more woman and indeed men can be aware of how to lower their chances of becoming a victim of crime. I am not telling woman not to drink, not to go walk alone at night down the street, not to exhibit submissive behavior, I am merely stating that these are what aggressors are going to look for in their targets. Woman may choose to behave however they want. Although, it is incredibly reckless to walk drunk down an empty street in the early hours of the morning without any means of defending yourself just as it is for a man. Being a woman should not alleviate you from any responsibility that comes with being safe. It applies to both men and woman. That is precisely the point being made in the video.

[che]

Well, I guess certain "types" of rape. Lol. Aka random ones on the street. Not ones where it's like an uncle raping his niece in their home.

But if you were to go out and do all those things, and if the rapist didn't want to rape you, you'd just be putting rape onto another woman!

So here's a question for the people that think that by doing things like dressing heavier and not drinking and going with friends out to a bar and not alone: would you suggest the same for men to not get raped?

edit: rowan posted at the same time as me :3

[Rowan]

So here's a question for the people that think that by doing things like dressing heavier and not drinking and going with friends out to a bar and not alone: would you suggest the same for men to not get raped?

edit: rowan posted at the same time as me :3

Lets not use rape for men, as its far more uncommon in society. Lets use violent assault, which is far more common for men. I don't not go out and drink because violence exists. I make sure I have friends with me, people that I trust. I make sure the place we decide to go to, has a good environment and at the first sign of trouble, we bounce. I make sure that if anyone is ever in a fight, that we get the hell out. They are just a couple of things that you can do to ensure your own safety, and it is not a hard thing to do.

[Heartless Angel]

Nobody is asking people not to do shit Alpha, just not to go out of your way to ignore safety precautions on the basis that 'you can'. Again, see comparison of sitting in front of my door with a shotgun vs. locking my door. One is a silly if not ridiculous change in behavior which is unreasonable, the other is a reasonable safety precaution. It's not about 'solving crime', it's about minimizing risks. It's clear you're passionate on this subject, but in this case, it is distorting your logic. You're creating straw-men to direct your emotional arguments towards. Is anything (reasonable) a potential victim does going to make or break a rape case? Probably not. Does that make the advice bad? Absolutely not. If it's too much of an inconvenience, don't follow it. It isn't going to be your fault if something happens regardless. If it's not an unreasonable inconvenience, why go out of your way to ignore it?

[loaf]

Cool, so can you give me a list of the things women can do to make themselves smaller targets? I'll start, it'll be fun.

Walk in a group.
Have a cellphone.
Be muscular.
Look confident.
Not talk to people.
Walk alone.
Not be female.
Dress modestly.
Dress revealingly.
Not be attacked from behind.
Not have family.
Not get drunk.
Not drink at all.
Being a hermit.
Not existing.

You forgot one.

Don't get raped.

[Alpha]

I get it, HA, but can you provide me a comprehensive list of things that women CAN do that have conclusively been shown to reduce the incidence of rape, AND can you show me how this is less societally costly than alternatives, such as ensuring teenagers are taught and retaught the issue of consent?

As I said earlier, I don't dispute your noble intentions. I do dispute that your proposed solutions are minor inconveniences, or that they are even effective at achieving the desired outcome.

Also your logic is blocking your emotional reaction.

[che]

This is getting NOT constructive.

So there's literally nothing men or women can to do avoid/lessen the chance/other thingy of getting raped? Nothing? Outside of trying to educate every single potential rapist (which would be every single person, as we cannot conclude that someone will rape until they do at this time). And providing mental health care and legalizing prostitution and keeping SOPA off the internet so desperately horny, mentally troubled individuals can look at porn to get their jollies off and not have to "resort" to rape?

[Heartless Angel]

Well a lot of that depends on the specific type of rape. You have your sleazy asshole who can't take no for an answer, and you have your psychopathic put a gun to your head and hold you down rapist. Very different mentalities, very different reactions to various techniques. Self defense, concealed weapons, not being out alone, not flirting with sleazy douchebags in bars in the middle of the night, not bringing sleazy douchebags home or following THEM home, not dressing and acting in such a way that you draw the attention of said sleazy douchebags, not leading drunken idiots on to get free drinks out of them, there's any number of things a person can do to reduce their chances of being targeted. Again, nobody is claiming that these are all obligatory precautions, or that they're going to solve the problem, but based on the psychology of certain types of rapists, these would prevent some cases here and there.

As for cost, I can absolutely demonstrate that these have less societal cost. because they have literally no societal cost. My application of common sense and electing to only go out at night in bad parts of town if I have friends with me costs the world literally nothing. Not engaging in high risk behavior costs the world literally nothing. The cost of education is minimal, but greater than nothing. However, a key difference exists. Avoiding high risk behavior can actually help in some situations. Teaching teenagers what consent means does not. Nobody is confused about the definition of "no." Nobody has ever raped anybody because they didn't understand that they weren't given consent. A rapist either doesn't care, or is willfully deluding himself into taking whatever he's told as an invitation when he knows damned good and well it wasn't.

Again, nothing being proposed is a 'solution', they are behaviors which, when observed, have a chance of reducing the odds of you being victimized. They are not obligatory. They are not satisfaction guaranteed. Choosing not to follow them because it legitimately inconveniences you beyond what you as an individual deem reasonable is fine. You were never obligated to take any precautions. Choosing not to follow them because "I shouldn't HAVE to!' is idiotic. That gives you zero gain and possible loss. At absolute best, doing something for that reason accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Why when analyzing a problem with intent to solve it or improve the situation would I want an emotional response? Emotions do not solve problems. At best they motivate people to find solutions, at worst they actively impede problem solving. I seek to solve problems solely for the sake of solving problems, so I don't need them at their best, meaning the only things emotional responses will do for me are absolutely nothing, or cost me.

[Halie]

You guys are focusing so much energy into telling women not to be raped when instead we should be teaching people not to rape in the first place. And with the logic that some of you are spewing, aka teaching women to take precautions so that they're less likely to be raped such as wearing certain amount of clothing and walking in groups etc, you're basically saying "make sure they rape someone else, not you". Like, do you even understand how ****ed up that is?

[Heartless Angel]

Once again, there is no lesson to be taught here. Nobody rapes because there is some part of the process of obtaining consent that they do not understand. Potential victims can not control a potential rapist. As such, controlling would be rapists is not something which an individual can do to make themselves safer. They can only control themselves, and there are things which they can control which may be beneficial. Nobody is claiming that is the solution to the problem. Furthermore, it does not follow that a would be rapist would then go rape somebody else. Sleazy douchebags who account for the overwhelming majority of rapes don't go out at night thinking "I think I'm gonna rape somebody tonight. Better keep my eye open for an appropriate target". Most of them just see something they want, and can't take no for an answer once they've got it in their heads that they're going to get lucky tonight.

[OceanEyes28]

SIIIIIGH

I'm just gonna leave this here
Project Unbreakable

[Unknown Entity]

There is only one person you blame when it comes to rape, and that's the person committing the offence. You could walk out of your house wearing nothing, and you still don't deserve to be raped, and you're still not asking for someone to have their way with you. That's not giving consent - no means no. You don't have to be a feminist or anti-feminist (or neither, whatevs) to understand that.

Why should anyone minimise the risk of getting raped? Why should anyone have to? There shouldn't even be a chance of it happening, whether it's a stranger or someone you actually know. Your own partner could rape you. Your parents could. Your dentist could. Your neighbour could. Why should women (and/or men - they can be raped too) live in fear and be forced to "minimise" the risk of being raped, when it shouldn't even happen in the first place?

THAT is the issue that needs to be tackled. Not "women shouldn't wear hotpants after nightfall" or "women shouldn't wear such revealing tops". If ANYTHING, people wearing revealing clothes should understand and accept that there are people who'll judge, or leer or perv. But rape? Try and understand and accept that.